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Chambery vs Geneva for RYO trip to Les Arcs

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Flights to either are available cheaply on dates when I want to travel, and from airports near to me.

Chambery pros: Nearer so shorter transfer time. Available flight times conducive to getting to resort before 8pm.

Chambery cons: Disorganised crazy queues flying out from Chambery on a Saturday. Can be put out of action by bad weather. Transfer options more expensive.

Geneva pros: Slick set up and works as intended, even when busy. Not as likely to have a flight cancelled by bad weather and have to make your way to another airport for an alternative flight. Substantially cheaper transfer option available (Ben's Bus).

Geneva cons: Adds about an hour to the transfer time. Available flight times not conducive to getting to resort before 11pm (and therefore there's a risk not being able to check in).

Is there anything I've missed that might sway one towards (or away from) either choice?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@greengriff, There are so few flights to Chambery to effectively rule it out IMHO.

A pro for Chambery is surely a less expensive transfer. OK getting to the station can be a problem but from there the trains are relatively inexpensive.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Jet 2 do regular flights to CHX. I can't find a less expensive transfer for 2 people to Les Arcs and back than Ben's Bus from Geneva. £179. All options from Chambery are £400 plus. (I'm excluding Altibus at the mo as no timetable available).
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I've flown into CMF twice on a RYO - anyone remember Snowjet operated by Titan Airways?

Anyway, if the timing is such that it avoids the Chambery Charter Rush (roughly 10am-4pm on Saturdays), I'd chose Chambery instead of Geneva. The two flights I used were both Saturdays at New Year, and arrived at about 6pm, and departed for home (well Stansted) at about 8pm IIRC. The terminal was deserted (not the usual Oxford Circus on Christmas Eve crush). I hired a car and up to Ste Foy in less than two hours - and that was with putting on snow chains from the main road up to resort. Return trip was ski all day, depart about 5pm, via the KFC at Chambery shopping centre, check in and back in Blighty before 10am.

Any flight to CMF stands a chance of ending up at GVA or LYS in poor weather, but the airline should then get you to CMF somehow. Geneva check-in and passport control can be a zoo at busy times, and what with CV19 and BREXIT we've yet to see how any of the airports are gong to handle plane loads of first time (for 2 years) winter UK visitors.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
greengriff wrote:
Jet 2 do regular flights to CHX. I can't find a less expensive transfer for 2 people to Les Arcs and back than Ben's Bus from Geneva. £179. All options from Chambery are £400 plus. (I'm excluding Altibus at the mo as no timetable available).

Have you checked the cost of the train, as johnE suggested ?
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Nope. I wasn't even aware it was an option. I will check it out.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@greengriff, Chambery cons: those flights don't really exist.

Any flight you book now is highly likely to be cancelled/rescheduled by the time you take it, and there's almost no alternatives; with GVA you can at least find another time/airline and get there.

Airline schedules more than 3 weeks out are currently a work of complete fiction. I've had over a dozen flights booked in the July-October period - every one of them has been heavily rescheduled or cancelled, sometimes two or three times.

My bookings for December are now starting to be rescheduled by the airline.

At present I think it is hugely risky to book flights on anything other than a major airline to a major airport, if you then have any dependencies (transfer, hotel etc.) linked to those flights.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If you have to wait an extra hour for your baggage in the Chambery chaos, that pretty much wipes out any travel time saving.
I usually fly to Geneva (DIY Easyjet and self drive)-and get to Chambery (town) in around 50 minutes or so. But have done both and its Geneva every time for me by choice.
Given current uncertainties, Geneva also offers far more flight flexibility and options.
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@snowdave, me too. We go Easyjet, and both our bookings-to Geneva in December and Athens in October-have been changed. I think they are consolidating so we have been added to a different flight. I can only see more of this happening later in the year.
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snowdave wrote:
@greengriff, Chambery cons: those flights don't really exist.

Any flight you book now is highly likely to be cancelled/rescheduled by the time you take it, and there's almost no alternatives; with GVA you can at least find another time/airline and get there.

Airline schedules more than 3 weeks out are currently a work of complete fiction. I've had over a dozen flights booked in the July-October period - every one of them has been heavily rescheduled or cancelled, sometimes two or three times.

My bookings for December are now starting to be rescheduled by the airline.

At present I think it is hugely risky to book flights on anything other than a major airline to a major airport, if you then have any dependencies (transfer, hotel etc.) linked to those flights.


That's a very useful post, thank you!
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snowdave wrote:
@greengriff, Chambery cons: those flights don't really exist.

Any flight you book now is highly likely to be cancelled/rescheduled by the time you take it, and there's almost no alternatives; with GVA you can at least find another time/airline and get there.

Airline schedules more than 3 weeks out are currently a work of complete fiction. I've had over a dozen flights booked in the July-October period - every one of them has been heavily rescheduled or cancelled, sometimes two or three times.

My bookings for December are now starting to be rescheduled by the airline.

At present I think it is hugely risky to book flights on anything other than a major airline to a major airport, if you then have any dependencies (transfer, hotel etc.) linked to those flights.


It's a big problem - rather than being able to think - I've got that aspect locked down, I can sort transfers, accomodation etc what you end up thinking - I've got a slim chance of that working and quite likely a major ballache rearranging.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
All this uncertainty is making me speculate on going by train instead! Or simply ponying up the extra for a TO organised trip like I usually do.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@greengriff, From experience I wouldn't touch Chambery in the winter unless you want to see Lyon or Turin airport. Its a fog bound hell hole
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
That's only happened to me once in maybe ten trips through there.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

All options from Chambery are £400 plus. (I'm excluding Altibus at the mo as no timetable available).

I realise the schedules are not available yet, but the train is less than 20€ each way from Chambery to Bourg st Maurice. The funicular is included on your lift pass. The problem, however is getting from the airport to the station, and especially getting back from the station to the airport.

When I looked at flights from Birmingham to Chambery via Jet 2 they were £300 return and even then only available on Saturdays. The cheepest fares to Geneva using Easyjeyt was £51 return (+ luggage)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yikes. Jet 2 flights to Chambery were around £60 return when I last looked a couple of days back. Chambery appears to offer it's own bus service: https://www.chambery-airport.com/en/access-parking/airport-shuttle
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
greengriff wrote:
That's only happened to me once in maybe ten trips through there.


I'm 3 out of 5 trips to Chambery diverted
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@greengriff, The price seems to fluctuate a lot on when you plan to travel. I was thinking of early April - before the Easter holidays, which is when I got the £300 fares. The £60 return fares are available in January - but only on Saturdays. Interesting that you can fly out for Easter, but not back.
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snowdave wrote:
@greengriff, Chambery cons: those flights don't really exist.

Any flight you book now is highly likely to be cancelled/rescheduled by the time you take it, and there's almost no alternatives; with GVA you can at least find another time/airline and get there.


it is a similar thing with the sncf at the moment, if the train won't make money they cancel it, causing mayhem for people. They used to run empty trains, not at the moment.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
So if there're no reliable flights, and no reliable trains, how on earth are you supposed to put a holiday together Sad. Back to Crystal I guess.
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@greengriff, you can't negate all risk, but you can minimise it:

1) Major airline, major airport. Even through the absolute worst times of COVID, BA has run at least one daily flight to Geneva. I suspect (but can't confirm) that Swiss has also run daily GVA/LHR, but if something goes wrong with Swiss, getting your money back can be very hard/impossible.

2) Pay with credit card, so you've got decent recourse if the supplier refuses to refund.

3) Book everything possible on a refundable basis - I've just booked for a trip in December, with flights, car and hotel all refundable until 48hrs before.

4) Accept that, in exchange for this flexibility, you may have to pay a bit more.

5) When the airline changes your flights (as BA has just done for my Dec trip) - you're not under an obligation to accept the change immediately. Although I've been rebooked, I've not accepted the change, which means that until 24hrs before, I can select a different flight day/time/airport at no cost to myself.

Finally... the tour operators can do the same to you - change the flight times, change your hotels, offer you something deemed "equivalent" which you think is nothing of the sort. Look up Crystal's policy for what it considers an "equivalent" flight, and I bet it's a lot less customer-friendly than BA's +/- 2 hrs.

This is still, sadly, not a normal time for many people and industries, and travel is in no way "reliable".
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Are you on your own? If not it might be worth considering driving all the way - under your own control, much less guesswork and uncertainty. But what are your dates? That makes a big difference to the optimum choice of transport.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
"Finally... the tour operators can do the same to you - change the flight times, change your hotels, offer you something deemed "equivalent" which you think is nothing of the sort. Look up Crystal's policy for what it considers an "equivalent" flight, and I bet it's a lot less customer-friendly than BA's +/- 2 hrs..."

Indeed -- September 2019, booked a holiday to Flaine with Crystal, deliberately choosing a flight to Geneva because I hate Chambery!

Two days after making the final payment my flight was changed to ----- Chambery !!! (not considered a Major change by Crystal).
Fast forward to January 2020 - Final day, bus to Chambery, FOG, bus to Lyon, Lyon flight diverted to Manchester, bussed to Birmingham to pick up car......... Sad

Skiing was good tho' Smile
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pam w wrote:
Are you on your own? If not it might be worth considering driving all the way - under your own control, much less guesswork and uncertainty. But what are your dates? That makes a big difference to the optimum choice of transport.

This holiday will be for me and one of my kids. I have driven across France before, and I hated every second of it! It would be my very last choice, but I would do it if there was no other choice.
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albob wrote:
"Finally... the tour operators can do the same to you - change the flight times, change your hotels, offer you something deemed "equivalent" which you think is nothing of the sort. Look up Crystal's policy for what it considers an "equivalent" flight, and I bet it's a lot less customer-friendly than BA's +/- 2 hrs..."

Indeed -- September 2019, booked a holiday to Flaine with Crystal, deliberately choosing a flight to Geneva because I hate Chambery!

Two days after making the final payment my flight was changed to ----- Chambery !!! (not considered a Major change by Crystal).
Fast forward to January 2020 - Final day, bus to Chambery, FOG, bus to Lyon, Lyon flight diverted to Manchester, bussed to Birmingham to pick up car......... Sad

Skiing was good tho' Smile


I have to say, horrid as that sounds, it still sounds better than having to make similar arrangements oneself in the event of a problem.
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What about Lyon?
It is always overlooked. The airport also has a train station.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
"..it still sounds better than having to make similar arrangements oneself in the event of a problem..."

It was - at the end of the day is was glad I had Crystal to take care of everything ::
As I waited to collect my bags at Manchester a text came in from Crystal - A cheque for £220 would be on its way to me as compensation for the delay... Smile
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
albob wrote:
"..it still sounds better than having to make similar arrangements oneself in the event of a problem..."

It was - at the end of the day is was glad I had Crystal to take care of everything ::
As I waited to collect my bags at Manchester a text came in from Crystal - A cheque for £220 would be on its way to me as compensation for the delay... Smile


It depends whether you want control yourself when things go wrong, or you want to be one of the numbers that the tour operators have to deal with.

The most extreme situation I've had was when fog stopped nearly all flights from most London airports just before new year, and my wife was due to fly out to be with us.

Her 7am flight was cancelled at 5.30am as her taxi arrived, as had all alternative flights for 2 days. Within 15 mins I'd rebooked her onto a Eurostar and train from Paris, her taxi took her to St Pancras instead, and I picked her up about 6 hrs later than planned at Geneva railway station rather than the airport. No tour operator would have got her to the alps for at least 2 days more, and there would probably have been crowds of people at the airport, an unobtainable phone number, and numerous bus journeys.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

What about Lyon?
It is always overlooked. The airport also has a train station.

The railway station at the airport doesn't really connect to the rest of the railway system. To get the train to Les Arcs you have to get a shuttle tram into the main Lyon station at Part-Dieu.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
johnE wrote:
Quote:

What about Lyon?
It is always overlooked. The airport also has a train station.

The railway station at the airport doesn't really connect to the rest of the railway system. To get the train to Les Arcs you have to get a shuttle tram into the main Lyon station at Part-Dieu.


Yes, but if flight times are better, it can be worth it. Travel by road is probably just as comparable at Geneva + if you can get an early flight, you may just beat the Chambery flight arrivals & all the traffic.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mr.Egg wrote:
What about Lyon?
It is always overlooked. The airport also has a train station.


1-2 flights/day for the airlines that operate there. Just like Chambery, if something goes wrong, it goes very wrong. Same with Grenoble.

Major airlines, major airports, or you're playing poker with your weekend away.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowdave wrote:
Mr.Egg wrote:
What about Lyon?
It is always overlooked. The airport also has a train station.


1-2 flights/day for the airlines that operate there. Just like Chambery, if something goes wrong, it goes very wrong. Same with Grenoble.

Major airlines, major airports, or you're playing poker with your weekend away.


Excluding Paris airports, Lyon is France's 2nd busiest. It is not a cowshed like Cham or Grenoble.
Things rarely go wrong as it is not in valley like Cham. so not as susceptible to fog, etc.

If you can get good flight times & avoid the Cham traffic/bottleneck, then it is a very good airport to fly into & out of.
Clean & modern.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lyon is a very resilient airport. It's away from the hills, has the best equipment of the 3 (LYS, GNB, CMF) to allow approaches down to low visibilities, zero zero in common parlance. It also has 2 runways, so during snow events it is more resilient than Geneva. Shame it doesn't have more UK regional flights into it.

But it is cheaper for airlines to operate to GNB or CMF. Grenoble is little better than a shed, but has a reasonable approach capability, 100ft cloudless, 300m visibility. It only has one runway, but it is a decent size.

CMF is another shed, but it needs to be a relatively nice day for flying due to its unique geographical position and about the daftest place to build an airport I can think of! So when Shamblesberry goes wrong it is almost unrecoverable.
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That's interesting info.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
After suffering a 37-hour flight delay thanks to weather at Chambery, I would say avoid it like the plague.
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chocksaway wrote:
Lyon is a very resilient airport. It's away from the hills, has the best equipment of the 3 (LYS, GNB, CMF) to allow approaches down to low visibilities, zero zero in common parlance. It also has 2 runways, so during snow events it is more resilient than Geneva. Shame it doesn't have more UK regional flights into it.

But it is cheaper for airlines to operate to GNB or CMF. Grenoble is little better than a shed, but has a reasonable approach capability, 100ft cloudless, 300m visibility. It only has one runway, but it is a decent size.

CMF is another shed, but it needs to be a relatively nice day for flying due to its unique geographical position and about the daftest place to build an airport I can think of! So when Shamblesberry goes wrong it is almost unrecoverable.


Yup
IMO it is better than geneva if you are arriving early & can get the other side of Chambery before all the UK regions start to land at Chambery. BRS is 1st flight out, so even get time to stop of Bourgoin-Jallieu hypermarkets & still beat the traffic out Cham!
Arrive late.. then you Geneva is probably better. You dont want to be the wrong side of Chambery bottle neck!!!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Got to ask RYO?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Mr.Egg, And for those of us that hope to be on 6 month French visas it means we won't have the hassle of stopping at the Swiss French border to check out of CH to stop the Schengen clock and start the French one.
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stevew wrote:
Got to ask RYO?


Good question ! -- Run your own ??

-----------

Did a search of the forum on RYO and it threw up this from Masque in 2013

"....Learning to bogart a RYO...." Which just left me more confused !!!
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@albob, thanks glad not just me unsure. To topic, having flown to Chambery with some good and poor experiences and more recently Lyon, I know where I'd have to spend delay time and it would certainly be Lyon
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