The winter 21/22 insurance thread

A snowHead

Has anyone first hand knowledge of underwriters' interpretation of the "off piste with a guide" clause? In other words, has anyone had a claim denied because they were unlucky enough to sustain an injury when not actually on a piste, no matter how far away from one, (and unfortunate enough for the underwriters to be aware of that fact)?

The follow-up question is, if such a denial of claim has happened, has it ever been challenged?

In my time I have happily followed guides down some "interesting" routes that I would probably have not attempted had the guide not been there. Toofy Grin

At the ripe young age of 72 this thread is of great interest to me and I thank DotM for starting it.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@tarrantd, Thanks for the suggestion - yes, I have got quotes on that basis but it's an important distinction between the two trips. Strangely, there wasn't much difference between the two quotes - I think the longer duration on the EU trip offset the higher premium rate on the Canadian trip. I would have thought any North American cover would be more under any circumstances, but there was little in it.

I thought the Amex option is worth looking at that @andylocity, has mentioned.

Thanks everyone - very helpful. I'm just pleased to see so many over 70's are out there - very re-assuring!

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@adithorp,

Ta

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I emailed LV and got the following answers:

Question 1a: How does this work in Europe where they don't have in bounds off piste as they do in North America. What is a " a recognised ski resort" in this instance?
Answer: You can go off piste where this is allowed, there will most likely be areas where you are told don’t go to so we wouldn’t want you to go in those areas and you must stay within the boundaries of the recognised resort. You will need to check with the resort what their boundaries are.

Question 1b: If I go to France am I covered for any off piste without a guide?
Answer: Yes but still need to follow ski patrol guidelines

Question 2 - Is the wearing of ski helmets compulsory?
Answer: We don’t specify you have to wear helmets but if you are required to wear one then you must do and you must be abiding by the rules, some countries by law make you wear one, children and people of certain ages are required to wear one too.

Question 3 - who handles the claims on the policies?
Answer: All our claims are handled by a company called CEGA

So in regard of Q1 - it's still not totally convincing but trying to be pragmatic and practical, I think they would only quibble if you explicitly went against advice or into an area clearly signposted like a nature reserve.

Q2 I just asked because me and the wife currently don't wear one and we got caught out by Asda's having a compulsory helmet policy.

Q3 - this seems to me to be a critical aspect of Insurance policies. Reading the google and trustpilot reviews of CEGA they are either nearly all 1 star or 5 star (a bit more of the latter) which is really weird. Some are literally gushing in praise and others completely scathing.

After all it is free

@Layne, Personal experience with LV / CEGA was absolutely brilliant. Summary of the claim is here https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2885655&highlight=pelvis#2885655
Not mentioned there was the fact that they also sent a french speaking nurse with the recovery team to sort out all the discharge paperwork with the hospital. Can't praise CEGA highly enough, didn't quibble about anything.

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Has anyone got AAC to cover ski mountaineering in Europe (in our case largely skinning up, plus the occasional bit of abseiling down) plus LV= for annual travel cover (which excludes radonee etc)?

We've used MPI annual for many years and their repatriation service worked very smoothly (largely children with broken legs), but would like to start annual cover for a trip in a few weeks!

Initial hope had been that MPI would have had offerings available by mid July but that didn't happen so needing to have some sort of cover before mid July we were resigned to using Staysure, their annual policy for us at nearly 70 and multiple pre existing conditions was only £50 more than they wanted for a single trip and included up to 31 days winter sports ( no off piste but that didn't matter as we don't do off piste). 31 days winter cover wasn't enough but it would get us through the first couple of holidays and maybe things would have settled down by then. Just as we were about to buy Staysure increased their premium by about 25% to £400 which forced a major rethink.

Quick research including recommendations from "Which" magazine especially re covid cover and here led us to Barclays Travelpack, they took us on including all the pre existing conditions for their standard £12.50 per month. This solved my initial Summer holiday cover and will cover the first two of our three planned winter holidays. I've been looking at the PDS equivalent of Carre/Carte Neige, Snowrisk which has a season cost of €59 each which would give us annual cover with no limits on mountain activity for a total about £270, much cheaper than any previous insurance.

We are also in possession of the all singing, all dancing GHICs.

So now the questions

What am I missing? Seems too good to be true which usually means I'm missing something fundamental.
Does this combination work in the case a serious accident?
I've seen mention of the AAC in threads, how well does this work in France?

We've had some expensive claims over the years so know the need to have everything covered and in the normal course of events we would have renewed with MPI.

Any and all help appreciated.

You know it makes sense.

Barclays bank account has various travel packs which provide travel insurance up to age 79. I've just had to change my barclays bank travel pack because they retired the old product but this new one is 12.50 a month for worldwide cover for yourself, partner and children up to 23.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/insurance/travel-insurance/travel-pack/

ps. I have no connection with Barclays other than that I bank with them. I actually work for a different bank.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Austrian Alpine Club

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I'm sure this has been done before but what do folks think about getting "basic" insurance with snowsports then getting the lift pass 3euro addition in resort to cover rescue? I've always been under the impression that this would cover rescue from "side" piste in resort.

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@scottishandy, it would...in france, but would your insurance cover your treatment or possible repatriation? I believe carre...or is it carte...neige covers such things but you would have to check for yourself

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^ Carre Neige covers rescue anywhere accessible from a lift on or off piste and transportation to a hospital. It also covers transportation back to your accommodation if stranded in a different valley or unable to walk/drive etc. GHIC/EHIC or Travel Insurance covers the hospital bills and prescriptions (with possible contribution from you). Carre Neige does not cover repatriation to the UK. Their definition of repatriation is returning you to where you started your day i.e. your holiday accommodation.

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Bump for @pamski

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AFAIK the big issue with AAC is they are set up for europeans often within own country.

So while they cover rescue, the medical cover is very low for the annual insurance. I expect if you were off piste and rescued under AAC cover you could find that you still aren't covered for anything on normal travel insurance (as the injury happened doing something that isn't insured at all). However AAC have a price list for extended single trip cover (https://www.knox.co.at/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Alpenverein-Premium-Single-Trip-Cover.pdf) which probably is enough (extra) insurance.

I expect given I want to do ski touring that I either continue my SCGB cover (n.b. I know a few people don't like them and argue they are expensive, but that mainly seems to be because they push people onto insurance that is massive overkill for most members...) or go with BMC (as most other providers that cover what I potentially need currently seem to be changing underwriters so aren't selling new policies...) who are more expensive (though also cover more activities) or use AAC membership + extended cover + general (cheap) travel insurance with skiing for where I don't need the AAC cover.

After all it is free

+1 for LV=, like my namesake (TimC), I have also claimed with them on the mountain. My wife popper ACL getting off the first chairlift up, on the first day, at half term. The single most expensive holiday I have posted for and she literally skied about 1 metre.

LV= we’re excellent though.

It looks as though LV are gaining ground as snowHeads' preferred choice.

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@Hurtle,

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I haven't had travel insurance with LV, but have used them for both car and house. Crucially, I've claimed on both without incident

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On the subject of LV=, if you have you car and house insurance with them, it might be worth joining up to CSMA. You get a discount across the board, so it the saving is more than the cost of membership it could be worth doing.

There is a limit of 30 days with LV I think. But very happy to be corrected in that as if hasn’t looked as if possible to extend that limit.

You know it makes sense.

@Timmycb5, also if you join CSMA (now Boundless) you get free legal cover for motor insurance which means you can drop it off any other policy. That'll save £20 or so too.

LV has always been my 'go-to' for house, travel and car, provided they are within a reasonable amount of equivalent other mainstream providers (eg Direct Line, More Than etc.). Never had an issue with claims. I remember one claim where we had to cancel a holiday the day before departure. I sent them the claim paperwork on the Monday and rang them on the Thursday to check they had received everything. I was amazed to be told not only had they received it, they had processed the claim and I should have payment within the next few days. After that experience, I tended to stick with them.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@Pamski, it's worth checking their definition of wintersports days. Barclays travelpack (Aviva) is 31 days participating in wintersports which just about covers us with a couple days missed for rest and/or weather. Other companies count the total holiday days (including travel days) as wintersports days. Still may not be long enough for you but may help others.

A snowHead

@Timc, we seem to have got rather a lot of ski days booked as well as the days we take to and fro that have to be added into total travel. Making up for curtailed 2020 and 2021 like a lot of people no doubt.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

For me a combination of AAC and the holiday insurance I get with my bank account seems to cover it. Plenty of off piste at 62 etc.

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@boredsurfin, @Timc, @Pamski, "taking part" sounds like days on skis to me.

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@Dave of the Marmottes, Its an interesting one, my wife has claimed twice under snow sports cover whilst not skiing! Once in a carpark (skied into by child - broken Wrist) once standing outside a bar - taken out by a boarder on the pavement!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@boredsurfin, I had to claim for about $800 worth of stitches in my nose. Cause? a slight slip in car park while carrying new skis with sharp edges. Beware "the local" carrying position provides a nice pivot to become "the Freddie Krueger".

After all it is free

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/insurers-direct-line-churchill-resume-covid-cover-cancelled-trips

@Layne, interesting as haven’t been notified by Nationwide of change to Flexplus’ insurance cover.

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The winter 21/22 insurance thread

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