 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Layne, I guess if you are the sort of person who just wants to go back to the same place time and time again then fine. But PdS is one of the places in France I would have thought most skiers would want to explore at some point (and is worth exploring), just as 3V is. However as @under a new name says, its huge bonus card is the ease of access from the UK for short trips (and the fact the transfers and apartment rentals cater for that) which trumps just about anywhere else.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fab for a weekend with friends, great value and great food as well. For a week, agree I'd probably go somewhere else. But my experience is limited to the LG-Morzine-Avoriaz-Chatel bits. But both times were in Jan and both times with reasonable to very good snow.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| Two multi 3V seasonaire friends of mine did a season in the PDS for a change of scene. Hated it. Said it took them an hour every day to get up the hill to ski. Think they were based in Morzine but not 100% sure. Don't think they've been anywhere but the 3Vs since... |
I really struggle to believe that. having been. During Feb holidays I can see how that could happen, like any where, but it just doesn't take that long.
If you go from Morzine to Avoriaz via the Super M route which is the main lift out of town, you are doing some travelling where essentially you're skiing from lift to lift but 1hr seems extreme to me to get to Avoriaz. You can also hop on the bus to Prodains, which probably takes 15 minutes with some stops, jump on the cable car there and you're right at the base of most of the major lifts in Avoriaz.
If you go up the Pleney side of the valley, you take one gondola up and you've got runs right there, and that gondola can't take any more than 10 minutes to get up there, plus the queue which can vary as much as any resort.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@swskier, Yep. That.
Maybe they stayed in St Jean d'Aulps? That would take ~> 1 hr to Avoriaz ... but it's not really representative of the PdS (despite being on the full pass).
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| Layne wrote: |
| @under a new name, you really should go there - it's very good. |
I second that, it's awesome.
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I've had numerous trips to PdS, one pre Xmas in fantastic powder, deserted pistes. Stayed in Morzine and fresh tracks every day, don't think we ever went over to Avoriaz! Also did my BASI L2 there in April, stayed in Morzine, got dropped off at the huge lift up to Avoriaz and found great or decent snow every day. Also had a family week there in March that was also decent snow.
So it's not the 3V, but there are some good runs to be found, some great off piste, and it's not the 3V!!
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@under a new name, agreed.
I'm trying not champion the PdS too much here, as everywhere is down to personal taste and 3 of my last 5 holidays have been to there so i'm perhaps slightly biased, but if someone came along to this thread that was thinking of visiting, reading about 1hr journeys to get to skiing will put them right off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| j b wrote: |
| @Layne, I guess if you are the sort of person who just wants to go back to the same place time and time again then fine. |
I wouldn't say I fit into that mould, especially in the first half of my skiing life. More recently yes but there are a number of reasons for that, not least of which is I have sorted out what I like and don't like.
| j b wrote: |
| But PdS is one of the places in France I would have thought most skiers would want to explore at some point (and is worth exploring), just as 3V is. |
It's always been on the edge of the radar, it's not like it's some I wouldn't want to explore but somehow there as always been a more something more compelling. To be honest I don't have that much on my bucket list right now. I am getting on a bit, after the pandemic any skiing is appreciated rather than anything exotic, etc.
| j b wrote: |
| However as @under a new name says, its huge bonus card is the ease of access from the UK for short trips (and the fact the transfers and apartment rentals cater for that) which trumps just about anywhere else. |
I don't do that many short trips.
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Just to be clear I'm not really in to criticising ski resorts - I mean I reckon I would enjoy myself just about anywhere - and the PdS is no exception.
The question was is PdS over rated. It's not for me because it's not been that highly rated in the first place. But it's not lowly rated by me - just not quite as high as others. I've never been and might have thought I was missing out (in which case I would have gone by now) but I've probably experienced and read enough to know by now that I'm not particularly. Wouldn't discourage anyone from giving it a try though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Unfortunately I've only ever visited on a summer walking holiday. One day I'll get there in Winter.
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@Layne, it's really about what you are looking for, isn't it?
I did 3 seasons in Morzine, back when it was still a thing when a steam pulley replaced the horse team (said horses still graze around the Fys chair). So there's a certain residual fondness, and friends. And between us we know it very, very well. That makes a difference.
But generally it has lots to recommend it, not least a short transfer, especially on school hol Saturdays!
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You know it makes sense.
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So bottom line, if you are not on a short break, saving an hour transfer time its going to change your life. Plus you restrict yourself to Geneva
If you self drive, the distance/travel time is almost the same, especially if you don't want to risk 2 additional border crossings
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Layne, bingo, who is massively over-rating it? It's in the worst country by all accounts (after Swiss, Austria, Italy), and it's the lowest big resort in that worst country. So it's gotta be one of the lowest rated big resorts in europe, if not the world  (considering what Japan, Canada, US have to offer)
But the altitude doesn't tell the whole story, because it's the northern most resort in France too, directly north of Chamonix and West of Verbier....so has one of the better snow records in France, if not Europe....think only western Austria is one of the few consistently snowier areas.
Anyway, it sometimes rains there....just like everywhere else below 2500m, so it's a lottery for a short break.
Grand Massif is also close by and I think the terrain there is under-rated and it's more linked up than PdS. But none of the villages there have the charm, restaurants or big summer market / events that some of PdS villages have.
I've only been to Meribel in 3V. It had good snow and restaurants....didn't notice a lot of difference, but yeah was limited to one area so I should go back and try the other vallees.
People want different things....I only want fresh snow. Sometimes you only get one or two snowfalls a month down low, but a season can stretch from 4 to 8 months, so it's more than enough for me. I've skied the same few slopes in Les Gets for 6 years in a row, and if it's fresh, I can't possibly get bored.
Property seems to be have risen more than big resorts further south, so there are probably reasons other than linked piste km's drawing people to the area. As mentioned, ease of access to GVA, lac Leman, year round living and the choice of so many other nearby resorts.
Having spent many years travelling and living abroad, it's certainly one of the best places in the world that I've lived in
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Poster: A snowHead
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I’ve skied PdS for about 12 years now and me and a mate bit the bullet and bought a place there last year (fabulous timing). In between times I’ve skied Les Arcs/Vallandry and Val d’Isere/Tignes, St Anton and Queenstown NZ. I have to say i prefer the skiing in PdS as it seems to have a wider variety of terrain, especially compared to the higher bits of Espace Killy - though to be fair we only did a week and we didn’t particularly get to know the area (I had a cracking day’s guided touring though). We’ve had some crappy days, but then again we’ve had crappy days in Espace Killy and St Anton.
Our reasons for returning to PdS so often is firstly familiarity - you get to know where to go and when. Accessibility - as others have said we can get a plane from Manchester at 1800 on a Thursday and be in the pub for last orders, then ski all day Sunday - 3 full days for one day off work. And the drive there is short but also not particularly weather affected, with two ways to drive there. And the summer is also fabulous - MTB, road biking, climbing, walking, via ferrata (all of which I’m sure other resorts have).
I can’t see how, outside peak holidays you’d take an hour to get to Avoriaz - and even then only if you go up the Super M way.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PdS is close to Geneva, and it has some nice "niches" like La Chapelle d'Abondance, Morgins, and parts of Les Gets. Agree that altitude is real problem. We used to go there in the early 2010s but decided it wasn't worth our vacation money when there are better options, i.e. Espace Diamant, Serre Che, and now we've "graduated" to the Dolomites...but I'm convinced there is plenty of worthwhile skiing in the PdS if the snow's good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My first 4 or 5 ski holidays were in Courchevel and I thought it was great, then I booked basically a blind week in Les Gets and then went there for the next years. I love doing the circuit and think the towns are much friendlier and nicer in the Porte du Soleil but I absolutely love the skiing. I think in retrospect Chatel is possibly the best base for getting the most out of the area although that possibly rules out the local Les Gets slopes which are great including the non connected Mont Chery area which is the best small area anywhere. I think it's very different from the 3V but not in a bad way and would always be happy to go there. Courchevel for example is super expensive but Les Gets always seemed far more reasonable and has the nicest/best ski shop in the world in Berthet.
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Always stayed in Avoriaz, which secures easy access to the snow-sure areas. This area is no match 3v or EK when looking at pure skiing options, but for families it is exellent. My daughters (14 and 1 have it as their favourite area, and just love the layout of Avoriaz with no cars. PDS just offers a different experience, and that works for us.
When not skiing with my daughters, PDS is not on my map, but I still enjoy being there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ronnierocket wrote: |
| .... Les Gets always seemed far more reasonable and has the nicest/best ski shop in the world in Berthet. |
Have you tried Vermont Ski Shops? They have one at the bottom of Rte des Chavannes and one up at the mid station, handy if you need something replaced mid-ski, or want to drop off equipment while still on the hill etc.
Quite a high level of customer service and attention to detail. When my mates come over I always bring them there for ski hire so nice that he usually does a 10% discount. Several times I've wandered in with our own damaged gear (missing strap on pole etc) and he replaced it for free. Then a few weeks ago while a mate was hiring an eMTB, he told me to bring my own bike in after hearing the brakes squeak.....checked the pads, disc's, then oiled and cleaned them, and spent 15 mins updating the software on the controls....all for free.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Layne, in 50 years of skiing, 3 seasons as a rep/“guide”, I’ve never skied the 3Vs.
Nor Austria for that matter.
But then, I live in Chamonix and am therefore, by definition, odd. |
Wow! 50 years and no Austria!  You really MUST ski Austria before you pop your clogs.
And the 3Vs as well, for that matter! You really should forego Chamonix for a couple of days and drive to somewhere like St Martin de Belleville to access the 3Vs. If you spend the night before in Moutiers you could be there in about 1 hour 45 from Chamonix. It's on your doorstep! Or you could squeeze in a day trip - though that's a couple of hours drive, each way.
Realistically, though, do you think you will ever get round to trying the 3Vs? 
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@Bergmeister, probably not!
Austria however, if only for the Ambience!
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Wait, it took them an HOUR to get up the hill? Were they walking up? FFS… Even from Seytroux we could be on the Ardent bubble in 20mins. What a load of shite.
PdS is great. Other ski resorts are great. Skiing is great. You pays your money….
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
Wait, it took them an HOUR to get up the hill? Were they walking up? FFS… Even from Seytroux we could be on the Ardent bubble in 20mins. What a load of shite.
PdS is great. Other ski resorts are great. Skiing is great. You pays your money…. |
Echo this 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Klamm Franzer wrote: |
| I agree. Morzine is a great town but the ski area is a bit of a pain to access from it. The best access points are Ardent and Avoriaz but will require a car or a bus. The lift system is adequate but not fantastic and there is a chance of rain at the lower parts. I used to go there quite often but switched to Austria when I realised just how good they were. |
I don't think you can beat Austria for lift systems, but there again I have mostly been to Saalbach and Ischgl (two of the best lift systems anywhere?) and Obergurgl (not quite as good, but no lift queues).
My only Swiss experience has been Lauterbrunnen, and the lifts in Wengen and Murren are OK, but not up to Austrian standards everywhere
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Bergmeister, and there's no great skiing around Chamonix and the environs?
My lift pass covers 1,002 lifts, apparently. Why would I need to go anywhere else for "great" skiing? Or is Austrian snow better?
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Bergmeister, and there's no great skiing around Chamonix and the environs?
My lift pass covers 1,002 lifts, apparently. Why would I need to go anywhere else for "great" skiing? Or is Austrian snow better? |
Yep but the best ones are usually broken! Chamonix has a disgrace of a lift company. It’s a crying shame for such an iconic place with so much rad skiing potential
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You know it makes sense.
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@BobinCH, Hmmm, Index? - anyway, that only applies to directly operated CdMB, and really only to crap H&S at the GMs - EvasionMB, Courmayeur, Verbier (counted, if limited days) all properly maintained.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Stayed with Ski Scott Dunn many years ago in Champery - and returned three more times with large chalet parties, so must have liked the area. I remember the scenery on the Swiss side being a big attraction (Champery, Champoussin, Morgins), and the Linga valley at Chatel being good skiing. And the circuits added variety and a sense of travelling. And getting back via the Swiss Wall (Chavanettes) was always “interesting”.
I once stayed in Les Gets and was underwhelmed, with the skiing, the après (although, to be fair, it’s probably no worse than most other French resorts), and its strategic location for getting around the area.
My only bad memories were queues for lifts in Avoriaz.
I suspect that much would depend (as ever) on weather, location, ski convenience, and accommodation. Tick those boxes, and, provided you’re not interested in après-ski, you’ll probably have a good holiday and enjoy the area.
Overall I preferred the 3Vs and the Paradiski (and possibly also Serre Chevalier), and once I’d established a firm preference for skiing in Austria, I wouldn’t have gone back, but equally I’m glad that I had those holidays in the PdS and certainly wouldn’t discourage anyone from giving it a whirl.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Stayed with Ski Scott Dunn many years ago in Champery - and returned three more times with large chalet parties, so must have liked the area. I remember the scenery on the Swiss side being a big attraction (Champery, Champoussin, Morgins), and the Linga valley at Chatel being good skiing. And the circuits added variety and a sense of travelling. And getting back via the Swiss Wall (Chavanettes) was always “interesting”.
I once stayed in Les Gets and was underwhelmed, with the skiing, the après (although, to be fair, it’s probably no worse than most other French resorts), and it’s strategic location for getting around the area.
My only bad memories were queues for lifts in Avoriaz.
I suspect that much would depend (as ever) on weather, location, ski convenience, and accommodation. Tick those boxes, and, provided you’re not interested in après-ski, you’ll probably have a good holiday and enjoy the area.
Overall I preferred the 3Vs and the Paradiski (and possibly also Serre Chevalier), and once I’d established a firm preference for skiing in Austria, I wouldn’t have gone back, but equally I’m glad that I had those holidays in the PdS and certainly wouldn’t discourage anyone from giving it a whirl.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PDS is the best in Europe….
On a DH bike, on skis not so much.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We went to PDS one year instead of 3V's and the entire group all wished we hadn't.
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@tatmanstours, Les Gets apres always dull in a way you would expect of a resort particularly marketed at families, but Morzine is good (enough) for France. I have always had a good night out and some sodding atrocious hangovers. Can’t hold a candle to Saalbach and St A but it has other charms.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 17-09-21 9:52; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| russ_e wrote: |
| We went to PDS one year instead of 3V's and the entire group all wished we hadn't. |
Why?
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PDS is vast - there are probably some disappointing bits but also amazing bits. Each area has its own identity and character, and IMHO difficult to judge PDS by spending only a week in Morzine.
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@tatmanstours, well, that was some time ago wasn't it? I think SSD's last Champery season was '92 or '93? (as an aside, Andy Scott-Dunn was responsible for me getting my first repping job, top chap).
It's changed a lot (!) since then (virtually no queuing across Avoriaz, even in peak weeks). I'd agree though (and with @Nadenoodlee), Les Gets wouldn't be my first choice as a base. But I don't have kids, and I can see the appeal for families.
What do you need for apres really? a nice dinner and a few drinks? I certainly don't need a bar full of drunken Tyroleans pretending they are on "Austria's got talent" 
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Les Gets wouldn't be my first choice as a base |
Every cloud... 
I spent way too much of my youth clubbing, still do a bit of DJ'ing / production, and little ol LG has more than enough apres / nightlife for me....live music is heavily promoted, something on pretty much every week, then you have 2-3 annual festivals.
Bars are as full and loud as you want....QG seen table dancing at times, Barbalon is late bar / nightclub scene - young doods doing back flips off a small stage a few weeks ago while the whole dancefloor formed a landing circle.....chaos, my drink was knocked into my lap twice. is that apres enough? Probably not for St Anton fans.....you can keep it. Great choice of restaurants and a few lively bars is all I'll ever need
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@polo, I was actually more thinking about ski access into the system than apres, actually, although that probably wasn't too clear!
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Went to Chatel quite a few years ago in a good snow year. Then (maybe things have changed) the resort had the feeling of being a French village which happened to have some skiing attached to it. I really liked that.
Chalet was up the hill - but that meant an easy ski down to the lift. It was a good place to go for the instruction week I was on. The PDS is not a ‘full on’ area like the Espace Killey or the 3V, but given the right conditions it has the makings of an enjoyable week.
I particularly liked skiing into Switzerland. For some reason back then few of the French liked crossing the border, so the Swiss side was blissfully quiet.
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