Thoughts on some skis - snowdome and learning ski

A snowHead

Hi all,

Hope you are all keeping in these strange times.

I wanted some thoughts on some Ski's mainly for skiing in a snowdome. Ideally I want something that can help with improving technique but also something that I could take away with me as well to supplement my current skis.

I'm 50yo, 175cm tall, 95kg, Advanced(ish) skier 8/9 IOS scale, 13 weeks on the mountains in Europe over last 5 years with 100s of additional hours in a local snowdome no off piste currently or really planned.

I think I'm looking for something in between these two:

- Head Worldcup Rebel iSLR (165cm) - I use this solely in the snowdome and I really like it for the first hour and then its not great once it gets chopped up as I probably don't have the skill to drive it when snow isn't crisp. Very heavy, feel very stiff.
- Blizzard Brahama 2018/19 (180cm) - My holiday ski, too big for snowdome. Not great first thing in the morning but good rest of the day. Struggled with these on really bumpy, chopped up sections on warm days when I last skied in 2019. Generally really like these skis but you know, new toys n all.

I also used to own a Head Magnums in 170 and hated them on the mountain compared to the Brahama and ironically preferred the Rebels for that initial feel in the morning.

So I'm looking for something in the middle, something a bit easier to handle than the Rebel's, able to handle the chopped snowdome soft snow which will help me improve my technique in the snowdome during the summer so I'm not fighting the ski. However, I do really enjoy those times when I get the turn right on the Rebel's. The secondary purpose would be to have as another option on holiday.

Ideally I'm looking to find something during the summer to try and get any discounts or well priced options so 19/20 season would be great. Budget of around £350

I know my technique is one of the real things that will make the true difference, I've seen amazing skiers on blunt rentals at Hemel, but I think if I can step back a bit from the SL I can improve my technique too. Lesson of course are always on the agenda with both the great InsideOut team and also some of the great instructors at Hemel.

Looking at reviews and youtube I think that the Rossignol Hero Elite MT Ti seems to fit the bill really well, not sure on length either 167 or 175 but also Hero Elite Plus Ti. I like what I've read about both of these. Friends have also recommended the speed zone 12/14.

What do you think, any suggestions for a snowdome focused ski that could cross over to the holidays for a more piste only focused ski?

I know I could do the October test but really I want something whilst the prices are a bit keener.

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

A snowHead

Snow dome skis will be awful on an actual mountain and vice-versa. Ideally you want something short and bendy with a decent edge. Too long or too stiff or too straight and you won't be able to do anything with them before you get to the bottom.

I would recommend some narrow piste skis (ie. 70mm or so) aimed at intermediate skiers with a max length of 160cm for you. Just don't use them outside the snow dome.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Not for pure snowdome, but would work most places and conditions Kastlè FX 86 as all day on holiday from crisp morning to afternoon chop plus would give you a different ski to mix it up dome side.

https://www.theskierslounge.co.uk/skis-and-bindings/skis/kastle-skis-fx86-skis__1885?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=AF8619_177_&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI24fb3pr18QIVzJ13Ch1Vwwm9EAQYAiABEgJsVfD_BwE

Not quite meeting cost constraints but fabulous value for money in such a well made and capable ski. Their structure, weight and concept do make them exceptional performers in a huge range snow condition variance.

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If you want to try a load of skis out it looks like Oktobertest is on, judging by forthcoming events page. That auto linky will take you to last years.

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Thanks for the replies all.

@Klamm Franzer, yeah I think this is where I’ll probably end up. I’m hoping to find a crossover but I think you’re right as evident in using my brahmas in hemel last week. I guess I struggle with what would fall in this class. I think you’re right though as there is very little time going down. I think on average it’s about 10-15 seconds top to bottom.

@ski3, wow that looks amazing damnit I’m now got a 4th ski on my list. That looks really nice. I guess It’s pretty close to what I’ve got in my brahmas at 88. But man that is tempting.

@NickyJ, I was hoping to buy something for summer hemel but the test is definitely an option.

Thanks for the thoughts so far

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@djf, ah that makes sense. Oktobertest has always been fun.

We are heading to Hemel this Saturday:)

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@NickyJ, nice me too, I'll be there from 8 (ish). I'm usually wearing dark blue and my jacket has orange zips feel free to push me over if you're about. There's two of us who pretty much wear the same so I'll be the one on the Yellow/Black Worldcup Rebels (don't push the other guy Smile

). I love it there, its quite a drive for me (1.15hrs), but such a well run establishment with some great people and some fabulous skiers.

After all it is free

We are there for the afternoon (13:30 - 16:30)

It is 1hr 50 for us! However last easter holiday cancelled, Christmas holiday cancelled, Easter ski flights (hadn’t got as far as accommodation) cancelled, our week in the mountains in France I have just cancelled.

A day trip to Hemel it is!

Ah shame. I shall be heading home by then. Hope you have a great time

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I think the ISLR is the perfect dome ski if you enjoy carving, if not then not the best choice ski. I borrowed a pair from a friend and loved them so much I ordered for myself in 160 (couldn’t find 165 in stock so if they are not for you I could find a home for them….). The ISLR is softer and lighter than a true slalom ski and the radius is insanely fun. I have the Rossignol Hero MT CA and these are a more sluggish ski than the ISLR, I did not enjoy them in chopped up snow, I’m not sure Rossi’s are the answer. Perhaps it is worth testing something such as the atomic vantage 75/79/82, I tried the 75 in Hemel and found them to be light and manoeuvrable.

snow reports

@djf, My current snowdome skis are Atomic X9 WB in 168. It's a nice fun playful ski that's a lot more forgiving than my old model Titans.

@djf, jeez... so here's the unpopular truth.

At 13 weeks on snow you're completely wasting your time and money thinking that another pair of skis is going to transform your technique. Just go and ski some more. Time on snow is what will fix your problems (and some instruction so you know what you're working on), not another ski.

The Head Rebels are way above your ability level but the Brahmas aren't although you clearly don't really have the technique to make the most of them. Your self appraisal comments are good and honest but the Brahmas are an ideal ski for an advanced/intermediate skier to ski chopped up soft snow on so if you don't like them in those conditions the issue isn't the ski, it's you. A narrower ski isn't going to make those conditions better unless you're confident skiing the zipline at Mach 2.

I'd use the Rebels on a dry slope if you have one nearby (in a dry slope race club) and the Brahmas in a snowdome. I usually recommend people who want to improve their technique to get a low 70's waist ski but you've already said you hated your Magnums so really, it's not the skis, it's you. You'll hate the Hero Elites just as much as the Magnums because they're a direct competitor and especially the Ti versions - these are stiff skis designed for people who know how to stand on an edge (carve) or use the the rebound for acceleration in a short turn - you've already said that you can't drive a Head Rebel so you won't be able to drive a Hero either. Narrow skis with titanium in them don't wake up until at least 40mph, preferably 50mph+, does that sound like you? No, right? So stop wasting your money. Stick to the Brahmas as your daily ski for now and learn to ski a more direct line through the chopped up soft stuff. It'll work. At 95kg, a 180cm ski is definitely not too big for a snowdome and a 17m turn radius is ideal for general learning anywhere.

P.S. My username isn't because I'm an ex-racer, it's because I was once just like you, thinking that another pair of skis or adding a raceplate to my current skis would magically transform my ability. I bought 13 pairs of skis in my first 11 years on snow. It didn't help. Time on snow on a friendly pair of skis did. Your Brahmas are friendly enough.

You know it makes sense.

Hiya @djf

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

^^ Good idea from FG, the Sage of Mount Hemel!

The hire skis are perfectly ok and fit the bill of being 'very turny'. The edges are the main variable and range from not-too-bad to completely useless. If you get the latter, swap feet and try again as one side is sometimes better than the other. I have occasionally swapped them for a different pair of both edges are blunt. Remember to go down a size or two from your normal ski.

A snowHead

@Fat George, is onto something there, in that the dimensions / sidecut of the hire skis is well suited to the environment. When I'm teaching I use the hire skis (Because then I know what I'm asking people to do is reasonable on the equipment, and my skis don't get trashed) but when I'm training I have two pairs I regularly use, one is a stiff short race slalom ski - which I wouldn't recommend unless that's what you want to use it for - the other is a pair of Redster Edge (Cheater SL) in 164 which have a very similar sidecut to the hire skis but are a bit stiffer and (of course) have really sharp edges and regularly waxed bases. These are fine for me indoors (honestly, can't rave about them, but they're good enough) - but I absolutely hated them the one time I took them on holiday! In general I'd say go for slalom style (but not full race spec) in about 11m radius, high 60s-low 70s underfoot, a bit shorter than you'd use on the mountain. I see lots of people skiing skis indoors that are far too big (wide/long, massive rocker) to get the best out of the slope. But the most important thing is to have skis that you enjoy and trust.
For me at least having my own skis to train on meant that I could be confident that differences from session to session were me or the conditions, not the skis.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Raceplate, Hell, yes. That.

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Hey all, thanks so much for all the great responses. Really interesting and I really like the different perspectives.

I think a lot of, if not all, of your thoughts @Raceplate are valid. I may have undersold my level a little but I think the points made are valid. I know with the proper ability any of the skis I own (or have owned) would be fine in Hemel. So I'm 100% working on that aspect too, we were meant to go away with IOS for a weeks holiday in 2019 but that got all blown out of the water alas. We also have regular sessions with them in Hemel plus supplement on holiday with private lessons. But yep 100% agree, the skis do not maketh the man (at my level anyho). I'm not sure speed is a good indicator but looking at my history on Ski tracks of fastest runs (which it shows on the front page) I do seem to sit around 40 mph average but definitely not 50+

I'm still not sure the Brahmas are the right ski for Hemel though, so I am still interested in options and using the rentals is an interesting concept I haven't really thought about. Like Tubaski I very much like owning my own equipment, I enjoy doing my own tuning (thanks Jon) and don't mind buying more gear but I won't ignore the advice given above.

@Fat George, I love that approach and mindset. Such a great way to approach things, I'm not sure I can imagine not skiing on my own gear but such an interesting way of looking at it so its got to be worth a go.

@Tubaski, I might grab you next time I see you there to get your opinion. Same for anyone else there feel free to say hello and feedback is always welcome.

@stephap, hahahaha I'm not quite there yet with selling. I still preferred them to the Magnums at Hemel and the first 1 hrs is a blast.

So my current plan then is to listen to the advice given, hang up the Rebels for the moment, try the rentals and if I see some skis in a similar layout at reasonable price then look at those as a buy option. Thanks also @stephap for the note on the Hero's, I'm dumping that idea.

Thanks again all, very helpful , I really appreciate your time to reply.

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I guess this could crossover with a Bend ze knees post (so apologies in wrong place Very Happy

) but to add some extra context these are some video of me skiing at Hemel, 2 on my Rebels + 1 trying out some XRace

*removed vids*

(edit: reworded)

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@djf, You don't look very comfortable on the xRace, imho the 15m radius is too big anyway for many of the things you'd want to practice in the fridge.

Keep the Rebels, join the race club Wink

As I may have suggested before...

After all it is free

I think that was my second run on them, I did like them though, but yeah a bit uncertain

Ha yeah I think a few times it may have been mentioned Smile

I'd love to join alas its too far alas for me on a school night. I'll likely start Tuesday nights again for the Mischief evening but even that sometimes has taken over 2hrs to get home to Essex, they do like digging up the M25 during the week.

blunt answer .. save money from buying skis ..buy lessons .. race ski this , radius that etc etc .. if you are comparing blade to old school 215s then ok ..but otherwise, run what you brung and make them work ... that alone will improve your skiing .. but skiing is supposed to be fun, so i dont know snowHead

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@limegreen1, yep.

@djf, to my untrained eye, you look a bit nervous. Pity you have to drive, as a few shots might help, rather than kit.

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Thanks very much guys really appreciate the feedback. Funnily enough I’ve just bumped into @Tubaski at hemel and he’s watched and said similar and also a little in the backseat which gets highlighted when things get choppy. He’s given me some tips to try so I’m going to work on that.

Did the first hour on rentals which was an interesting experience.

Thanks all, going to commit to erm committing and technique rather than skis. If something turns up cheap on eBay then cool but for the moment more confidence.

Thanks again

snow reports

@djf, excellent!

We had fun their this afternoon. After so many failed attempts to get out skiing in last 16 months or so, was REALLY good to do. At 2.5 hrs drive there due to M25 is very much a treat to go there. Our drive home should be significantly less

You know it makes sense.

Unless you are learning, does anyone think a fridge is worth skiing in? I don’t.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Of course the thread title was precisely about learning.

But no, unless I'd been locked down indoors for 18 months I probably would not particularly want to spend an hour or two sliding on a bunny slope in a shed. Dry slopes are actually more entertaining, I think because there's more space and more speed. Actually post-lockdown Hemel was better than usual, perhaps because any snow was better than none, but also because if I have the slope to myself I can chuck my board about.

On the other hand for learning I think they're excellent, as were dry slopes. They take away much of the "hey it's fun being a bad skier" thing, and allow you to focus on precisely improving technique. Which is kind of why they don't work so well for experts.

A snowHead

Hi @djf,
I was a bit gobsmacked when I read at the beginning of the thread you preferred the World Cup Rebels to the Magnums.

I love skiing on Magnums but embarrassed myself on pair of Rebels by not being able to make them turn as I was delving my first 15 metres into the kindergarten snow park.
On my R's I was ... I just could not get on with them, they had a mind of their own ...
I was not used to this.

I'm quite partial to the Heros as well, when I get "In the Zone".
(I didn't mean the SnowZone)

I usually rent skis rather than hulking them to the airport, and it gives me a chance to try something different.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hey all, sorry its been so long since I've been back on here and updated you as work, holidays and family have pretty much taken up most of my time.

Thanks again for all the feedback, I had an excellent session with @rob@rar from InsideOutSkiing and we worked through some of my issues. He looked at my skiing and we then worked on aspects that he felt needed addressing. We worked on a process of balance, pressure management and ankle movements and we were able to get some really great improvements throughout the day, even with tripping over my own feet. We've another session lined up so we'll dig further but have some great foundations. By the end of the day we were working on ankle rolls from the top of the slope, getting some good speed whilst maintaining control. I've got an obvious issue with my left leg/right turn so something to work on there, something for the next booked session.

He also thought that the skis did not really need changing, his view was I had the ability to drive the skis but had probably lost some confidence. So its a nope to buying new skis for this purpose. Now if only Rob could be there each time I ski !

As for the snowdome, I absolutely love it there, the staff are lovely and I've met some great people who've become friends inc Tubaski snowHead

. I quite enjoy the 2hr sessions and feel I have made a lot of progress going there especially with not being able to go away skiing for the last 1.5yrs. So I'm a big fan.

Thanks again for all your suggestions, they've been very helpful.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@djf, Do they still do delicious chunky chips?

It’s the main reason I used to ski there Little Angel

After all it is free

@Raceplate, I’m quite surprised that you recommend using the Rebels on a dry slope but not at Hemel. I have some Rebels (in 155) and find they really come alive on Hemel, etc. On my local dry slope (Torquay) I like them but feel that my 60kg is not really enough to bring out the best of them. I speak as an older skier working, for the last couple of years, to ski the ‘modern’ way!

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Thoughts on some skis - snowdome and learning ski

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