Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Hacking Car Hire

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Almost all the conversations I've had at the car rental desk have been very good natured. They know that I know that they are trying it on trying to sell extra insurance, sat nav, upgrades etc and we are both smiling and laughing about it. They have even gratiously acknowledged when I have gone back and pointed out the car they said was unmarked had this dent, this scratch etc. and that they should have marked it up.

Oddly the only real difficulty I have had trying to pick up a hire car was at Malpensa where the clerk was desperate that I gave her a mobile phone number even though I told her I didn't have a mobile phone. Eventualy she acceped the number 11111111111. It appears the script she had to follow wanted a mobile phone number and could not accept that not all people have mobile phones.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
johnE wrote:
Almost all the conversations I've had at the car rental desk have been very good natured. .....
Me too.

That's not really what the thread was about though. Let's assume that we can all be polite, face to face when jet lagged and in a hurry, if apparently not in text.
From the first post:

Quote:
... Does anyone know a decent hire car company which operates world-wide and which allows you to hire cars without paying for extras (like insurance) which I don't need, and where I can just pick up a car without having to give it a forensic examination to save myself from legal exposure to them? I'm not that bothered about cost, I just want an honest company which charges a decent basic rate for their cars so they don't need to try to scam me to make a profit.


So far it's looking like "Hertz Gold Plus" or "Avis Preferred". I think those (a) jump the queue; and (b) avoid the sales pitch opportunity.
That ought to save time at what is for me usually a critical point.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Or enterprise emerald club.
You might consider that Hertz went bust last year, and that their existing business model is unlikely to be better than the one which led to this.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
To be brutally honest there would be a much reduced amount of messing around necessary if the rental companies actually offered a fully comp insurance without excess in the price. If Holiday Autos can offer the excess insurance themselves for a few quid per day and you can get annual cover for about £40 it needn't move the needle on prices that much. And accordingly no one would need to worry about micro inspecting for tiny cosmetic damage etc.

The reason I suspect it isn't done as standard is that it is very high margin business for the companies and one that can easily be pushed on the worried via scare stories etc. I guess you'll come back with a counter that all renters are scum and if they were truly fully insured each and every car would come back on a recovery truck as a burnt out husk. Newsflash - they wouldn't, many of us just want no hassle and to use a car as we would our own.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I can see that you regard this as a black/ white issue, so there's no point in discussing it further with you. All renters are angelic miss daisy drivers and all rental companies are machiavellian fraudsters.
Got it.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Roguevfr wrote:
I can see that you regard this as a black/ white issue, so there's no point in discussing it further with you. All renters are angelic miss daisy drivers and all rental companies are machiavellian fraudsters.
Got it.


Don't be so stupid. No one has said that every renter is perfect but if you truly have a business where the majority of your customers are cheating negligent pondlife why do you even want to be in that business?

Structurally the industry has a problem with opaque pricing, aggressive and even fraudulent upselling and the friction involved in doing a transaction. And it seems a "creative" attitude towards retrospective charging i.e. for most transactions we do customers expect when it is complete and agreed that's it, not to have to monitor cc statements for months afterwards. None of these factors are non fixable but it appears no one in the industry really cares enough to do something different. Probably because it suits them the way it is even when they need Chapter 11 etc.


And this year will create further tensions as rates go higher because of a systematic shortage of new vehicles plus existing fleets significantly downsized last year.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Somebody give this man a hug.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
To be brutally honest there would be a much reduced amount of messing around necessary if the rental companies actually offered a fully comp insurance without excess in the price. If Holiday Autos can offer the excess insurance themselves for a few quid per day and you can get annual cover for about £40 it needn't move the needle on prices that much. And accordingly no one would need to worry about micro inspecting for tiny cosmetic damage etc....
A better approach would be for standard UK policies to include "comprehensive" cover for rentals, because that would factor in the driver's own risk already. If you don't do that, careful drivers and boy racers pay the same.

However that's pretty much where we started, isn't it? The rental companies would still try to miss-sell their "top up" insurance,
and they'd still have an incentive to charge multiple times for the same damage, or to shift responsibility for damage onto
customers where possible. That last is important because their own "insurance" is probably not insurance at all, if you think about it.

Avoiding the sales-pitch requires "membership"; that problem's solved, thanks all.

For the damage scams, I think technology has to be the solution: high resolution images taken at delivery and return and contemporaneously
uploaded to the cloud so they're not fungible. Cars also have internal logs, maintenance history, and GPS tracking all of which will help honest people.

Here's the collision damage last week's rental company failed to identity, photographed by me at pickup.
Note there's even a botched and rusted amateur repair job in the middle. The tail light is flapping about - you could not
have washed this car without noticing that it's missing at least one screw! They gave me a "damage sheet" for this car showing no damage.

I suppose I could have filled it in, would have taken several hours as the car had significant damage to every panel.
I'd need ramp access to check the underside, which probably also has damage. I think that's unreasonable; taking photographs
is quick and easy and I think more robust than some bit of paper with pencil marks on it.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@philwig, Nice illustration. I've lost count of the number of times I've been "forced" to sign an acknowledgement of their "no damage" report before I've even been allowed the keys and without exception have always found some damage to return and mark-up. It's helpful to get someone's throat to choke by them countersigning on the mark-up even if they can't be bother inspecting properly.

I do buy all in zero excess CDW with the consolidator packages I book in the US (doesn't seem to cost that much over the best rental only ex tax domestic Priceline type deals). When I've returned a vehicle and pointed out prominent pre-existing dings to the agent I've often had the reaction "doesn't matter you'd have nothing to pay anyway even if you trashed the whole wing". That's why I'd prefer it to the existing system in Europe.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 10-06-21 10:32; edited 1 time in total
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Roguevfr wrote:
I can see that you regard this as a black/ white issue, so there's no point in discussing it further with you. All renters are angelic miss daisy drivers and all rental companies are machiavellian fraudsters.
Got it.


I don't think anyone has suggested all renters are angelic, other than yourself. Most have also acknowledged that not everything about every hire company is a scam. What most have said though is that there are times when it seems hire companies are chancing it, either through ignorance, rushing or just an individual employere And also that some clients are trying to get one over by thrashing the nuts off the car and dumping the company with the problem.

But out of all that it's still very, very clear that the industry has an image/PR problem.

@philwig, I'd have circled the whole car Laughing
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The issue is clearly insurance and the fact that headline car rental prices are too low. A headline price which includes comprehensive insurance but with a reasonable excess which encourages renters to take more care seems a plausible solution. Then add-ons can be restricted to actual extras such as roof bars, child seats, navi. As it stands the car rental industry is not especially profitable and prone to abuse and poor image on all sides.
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
... @philwig, I'd have circled the whole car Laughing
<laughs> Sounds like a plan. I really could not find any panel without damage. I haven't actually checked, but it was high mileage and smelled of tobacco.

It was a wreck before I got in it. Which makes the crazy hard-sell even more obviously miss-selling as the car is clearly not
worth anything like the numbers they tried to scare me with. Possibly they thought I was poor, or they would not have tried that.
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mankei wrote:
The issue is clearly insurance and the fact that headline car rental prices are too low. A headline price which includes comprehensive insurance but with a reasonable excess which encourages renters to take more care seems a plausible solution. Then add-ons can be restricted to actual extras such as roof bars, child seats, navi. As it stands the car rental industry is not especially profitable and prone to abuse and poor image on all sides.


It'll be interesting to see what the impact of the travel sector "bounceback" is. I can foresee predatory "seller's market" pricing and then a dumping of rates as fleets get back up to scale as it is hard for leopards to change their spots. The discounting to get every car off the lot mentality is part of the problem as it means customers have been trained by the industry to seek those deals whereas it might be better in the long term to have more sustainable but less volatile everyday pricing.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Had a few rentals, mostly from the small non-airport rental places where I'd have circled the whole car. Budget Carlisle the guy even said "not much point indicating which panels have damage, as it'd be easier to mark which panels don't have damage" Seriously, how am I expected to return a car with so many small damages that 1 X on the printout refers to multiple dings? Fortunately it was the same guy on shift when I returned that one, but I had to scrupulously check every statement for months after that to make sure there wasn't anything billed additionally after signed-for legal acceptance of the returned car. Same again in Europcar Carlisle, car with so many damages on it that both the staff and I took photos from all angles and spent 15 minutes cross referencing the sheet with X's on it and the actual damages, and when I returned it there was me and 2 staff and the need for 2nd opinion with my photo showing a blemish slightly better due to a fractionally better angle of light. And then one of the other staff there says "oh is that the Vauxhall Mokka? that's the one Mrs. Biggs takes out every 2 weeks", at which point I was off the hook for all the damages that she had done. Seriously. I shudder to think how many damage bill she must have either got and they wanted to bill me too! Or she got away with shed loads.
My mistake was accepting either, but at the end of the day, if I reject the car, then I have no rental car. It's not like at an airport where they can probably find another in 2 minutes.
Then Enterprise Glasgow Airport, same again but the guy (who had a rapper's name), got a little card out to measure all the tiny dings, proclaiming that all the ones under 5mm don't need to be recorded and we won't get billed. Even the ones that looked visibly to be 4.99mm across, techincally not touching the sides of the 5mm cut-out. We had to force him to mark them on the paperwork, cos it's not going to be his personal measuring device on return. So in that case someone (or many people) got away with blemishes, but it is us or the next after us that will suddenly get a £900 tab for previous damage that's finally been detected as exceeding the threshold. He would have made an ace used car salesman.

And they expect me to pay additional insurance to cover what is 100% their problem?
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Looks like a top class vehicle from a major rental company.
For all your justified complaints and protestations the fact remains- there's a damn good chance that those dents / scrapes you're talking about were done by someone just like you, who considered themselves to be every bit as good a renter as you.

The simple facts remain- nobody wants to spend the time to be given a thorough inspection at the car on exit OR return. For the convenience you want, you're delighted to be able to return to a parking space and throw the keys in a return box. Is it any wonder things are missed ? That's no excuse, but it IS due to the demand for an instant transaction at the point of sale.

As regards upselling : did any of you ever consider that the person who asks you if you'd like to change to the "upgrade" might simply be doing their job ? No different to any other worker asking if you'd like coffee after your meal or suggesting a tie which might go well with that shirt you've just bought.

You might actually have been going to get the better car for no extra cost at all, but the operator is simply doing their job by asking you if you'd prefer it or had maybe changed your mind about what might be suitable? I used to be continually amused by the cars that American renters would book , in the expectation of fitting 5 people and suitcases in it.
Of course many of them were fully aware of it, but expected to get upgraded to a more appropriate sized car free of charge.

I will tell you what- if I'd asked the question of someone who might have been suitable but snapped me off because they thought I was " trying to aggressively upsell" , they'd certainly not be getting the better car.
Good for you, well done , I'm sure your family will all be impressed when you tell them how you outsmarted the rep.
Maybe the next renter in line with a polite attitude and a smile gets a wee free upgrade thanks to you. C'est la vie.

All of this is irrelevant if your only concern is getting the cheapest deal. But that ship has sailed in the current climate, and perhaps it will take many years for prices to return to the current ludicrous levels if they ever do. Perhaps that's no bad thing.

There are plenty of other businesses who threaten/ charge after the fact, such as excess cleaning charges after a rented property, or " a cleaning charge of €300 will be levied if you have been found to have been smoking in the apartment " where in fact the "cleaning " will consist of opening the windows and a squirt of febreeze.

I don't expect this to make the slightest difference to any of the aggrieved renters on here, but clearly that's not going to change regardless of what I or anyone else says.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Separate but related question. How do the car clubs like zipcar etc operate? They clearly don't have an agent inspecting each and every car after an hour's use and parked back in its bay. Is all insurance covered in the membership costs so it's only when someone reports something broken (presumably the person who had custody at the time if there is no direct penalty) that there needs to be any intervention?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

You might actually have been going to get the better car for no extra cost at all

most certainly not

Europcar Manchester Airport are very sly there. Very clever wording saying stuff like "oh we've got a XXXX for you if that's OK" only to find out that that is actually an upsell and will cost more for the upgrade than the entire pre-paid rental. Nope I've prepaid for exactly what I want, and that is exactly what I am gong to pay. You provide me with whatever car you like that meets the spec I booked, and I pay exactly what I have already paid, and nothing extra goes on my CC other than the deposit or auth.

I have had many free upgrades. Every single one has been them simply giving me a car that is 1 or more levels above what I booked. Even the Volvo S80 with 20km on the clock when I rented an Astra sized hatch. They don't try to upsell for free.
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
andy wrote:

Then Enterprise Glasgow Airport, same again but the guy (who had a rapper's name), got a little card out to measure all the tiny dings, proclaiming that all the ones under 5mm don't need to be recorded and we won't get billed. Even the ones that looked visibly to be 4.99mm across, techincally not touching the sides of the 5mm cut-out. We had to force him to mark them on the paperwork, cos it's not going to be his personal measuring device on return. So in that case someone (or many people) got away with blemishes, but it is us or the next after us that will suddenly get a £900 tab for previous damage that's finally been detected as exceeding the threshold. He would have made an ace used car salesman.

And they expect me to pay additional insurance to cover what is 100% their problem?


What , you mean the enterprise damage evaluation card which every employee uses ? Or do you think he's decided to use this device himself ?
Isn't this what people have been wanting here, a differentiation between "damage" and " minor wear and tear " ?

If you paid the insurance, you wouldn't be paying the tab for anything . Why is this such a difficult thing for people to understand? Once again, it was renters who put the damage there, not poltergeists.
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
andy wrote:
Quote:

You might actually have been going to get the better car for no extra cost at all

most certainly not

Europcar Manchester Airport are very sly there. Very clever wording saying stuff like "oh we've got a XXXX for you if that's OK" only to find out that that is actually an upsell and will cost more for the upgrade than the entire pre-paid rental. Nope I've prepaid for exactly what I want, and that is exactly what I am gong to pay. You provide me with whatever car you like that meets the spec I booked, and I pay exactly what I have already paid, and nothing extra goes on my CC other than the deposit or auth.

have had many free upgrades. Every single one has been them simply giving me a car that is 1 or more levels above what I booked. Even the Volvo S80 with 20km on the clock when I rented an Astra sized hatch. They don't try to upsell for free.


You've literally disproved your own argument. You've had free upgrades. Obviously you were a personable customer. Nothing wrong with asking if you'd prefer to hire a more expensive vehicle .
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have not disproven my argument at all. If I'm going to get a free upgrade it's because I've already been prealloacated that car. Naff all to to with my attitude at the desk on collection. They pick up the envelope that has my name on it.

The upsell one does not, it's one they are trying to shift on to any one gullible enough to agree. And every single one of those is not free. Why would it be?
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Separate but related question. How do the car clubs like zipcar etc operate? They clearly don't have an agent inspecting each and every car after an hour's use and parked back in its bay. Is all insurance covered in the membership costs so it's only when someone reports something broken (presumably the person who had custody at the time if there is no direct penalty) that there needs to be any intervention?

Frankly I've no idea how this model operates successfully, I presume the people who join such schemes are reliable customers and stick to the rules . Remote unlocking of vehicles and non interventional transactions require a level of trust on behalf of both the parties that I'd find exceptional.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Roguevfr wrote:


You've literally disproved your own argument. You've had free upgrades. Obviously you were a personable customer. Nothing wrong with asking if you'd prefer to hire a more expensive vehicle .


except if as @andy articulated it is done sneakily as in the wording he gave without a disclosure that there will be additional charges..... rolling eyes


Look the car rental industry isn't the only place it happens. I was with my mum when she was at a garden centre and the checkout girl asked if she'd like to join the loyalty card programme on the basis it offered a free coffee with cake purchase and 10% off plants in months beginning with N etc. So much faffing with putting details though the iPad etc while an impatient queue built up behind. Then the kicker - £15 on top of what had been a £10 purchase. To which the response was essentially "you have to be ****ing joking". So another 10 minutes of trying to reverse the transaction and no doubt many pissed off customers behind - all because of a little deceit in "following a script". My mum now badmouths the jokers to all her peers which as retired folk are the core customer base for garden centres is surely a little foot-shootery.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
andy wrote:
I have not disproven my argument at all. If I'm going to get a free upgrade it's because I've already been prealloacated that car. Naff all to to with my attitude at the desk on collection. They pick up the envelope that has my name on it.

The upsell one does not, it's one they are trying to shift on to any one gullible enough to agree. And every single one of those is not free. Why would it be?


The criteria for being "pre-allocated " that car has been met. However, that could well change dependent on the transaction. If you don't think your attitude at collection matters , then you're sadly mistaken.

As I already said, it's the reps job to get the correct value for the car at point of rental, if the customer is prepared to get a better car AND pay the appropriate cost, then thats doing their job properly. Nothing " being gullible" about it at all.
As I said, AND YOUVE PROVED , you might well have been going to get the upgrade free anyway. No harm in asking.
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Roguevfr wrote:
As regards upselling : did any of you ever consider that the person who asks you if you'd like to change to the "upgrade" might simply be doing their job ? No different to any other worker asking if you'd like coffee after your meal ...
I'd have no problem being asked that if when I said "no thanks" that was the end of the matter. The trouble is, too often the situation has been the equivalent of the waiter saying that if I didn't have the coffee I'd get terrible indigestion, or that I'd have to pay extra to the restaurant if I'd accidentally ingested something I was allergic to, and that I really should have the coffee. And really, the coffee is just about essential as you never know what will happen if you don't have one. Oh, and by the way sir, can I get you a coffee, its almost an essential way to finish of the meal.

I don't have any objections to be offered insurance products, or having these products explained if I'm unsure what they are, but in my experience too many sales agents at the rental desk, especially in the USA, really don't understand that "no means no".It's really bad customer service, and for me and I suspect many people, contributes to the poor reputation that the car rental business has.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
So they can predict the future and know that I'm going to be a nice guy on arrival?
And if i'm not they're going to reallocate me?
Which they won't cos they won't be trying the sly upsell and hence won't be pissssing me off Wink
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:


You've literally disproved your own argument. You've had free upgrades. Obviously you were a personable customer. Nothing wrong with asking if you'd prefer to hire a more expensive vehicle .


except if as @andy articulated it is done sneakily as in the wording he gave without a disclosure that there will be additional charges..... rolling eyes


Look the car rental industry isn't the only place it happens. I was with my mum when she was at a garden centre and the checkout girl asked if she'd like to join the loyalty card programme on the basis it offered a free coffee with cake purchase and 10% off plants in months beginning with N etc. So much faffing with putting details though the iPad etc while an impatient queue built up behind. Then the kicker - £15 on top of what had been a £10 purchase. To which the response was essentially "you have to be ****ing joking". So another 10 minutes of trying to reverse the transaction and no doubt many pissed off customers behind - all because of a little deceit in "following a script". My mum now badmouths the jokers to all her peers which as retired folk are the core customer base for garden centres is surely a little foot-shootery.



Ooh, tricksey he is!

Look, under any discussion about a benefit or supposed improvement to the original offer if your next question in response isn't "is there an additional cost for this"? then I don't know what to tell you. Employees doing what they are instructed to do by their employers ? Whatever next?
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Roguevfr wrote:


As I already said, it's the reps job to get the correct value for the car at point of rental, if the customer is prepared to get a better car AND pay the appropriate cost, then thats doing their job properly. Nothing " being gullible" about it at all.
As I said, AND YOUVE PROVED , you might well have been going to get the upgrade free anyway. No harm in asking.


Here we go again on the semantics and the bizarre accounting rectitude and upstandingness of the industry- there is no correct value or appropriate cost.

The rep's job as we customers perceive it is to take as much cash as possible for each asset in use. But you yourself have admitted that's a variable amount hence discounting when utilisation is low and pricing up to full rack for walk ins when the last few remain.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
andy wrote:
So they can predict the future and know that I'm going to be a nice guy on arrival?
And if i'm not they're going to reallocate me?
Which they won't cos they won't be trying the sly upsell and hence won't be pissssing me off Wink


You know, rightly or wrongly, people can make an assumption prior to actually meeting someone. First impressions can also be incorrect. But you may find that the next time you hire the free upgrade doesn't occur. Or indeed if it turns out you're " unsuitable " on collection you'd certainly be reallocated if it was at all possible.

Do you think seat upgrades to first class or whatever on aircraft are given out to the first gadgee who rolls up in his fitba' top and stained trackies ?
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
This is gold - the cabal of rental car clerks and their international black book of non-upgradable scum....... Laughing


It's all a bit one-sided isn't it - tolerate all our BS with a grateful smile and maybe one day kiddy you might get a sweetie. But dare to raise a sceptical eyebrow or make a sarcastic comment back and you're dead to us forever....
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:


As I already said, it's the reps job to get the correct value for the car at point of rental, if the customer is prepared to get a better car AND pay the appropriate cost, then thats doing their job properly. Nothing " being gullible" about it at all.
As I said, AND YOUVE PROVED , you might well have been going to get the upgrade free anyway. No harm in asking.


Here we go again on the semantics and the bizarre accounting rectitude and upstandingness of the industry- there is no correct value or appropriate cost.

The rep's job as we customers perceive it is to take as much cash as possible for each asset in use. But you yourself have admitted that's a variable amount hence discounting when utilisation is low and pricing up to full rack for walk ins when the last few remain.


As you perceive it is correct . That's literally their job. Why should it be any different ? The business owner / manager/ operator sets the price for the return they expect / require for their service. The employee is expected to complete transactions in order to maximise the returns . Whether that has flexibility in the pricing for operational purposes, or is affected by outside influence is irrelevant .
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
This is gold - the cabal of rental car clerks and their international black book of non-upgradable scum....... Laughing


It's all a bit one-sided isn't it - tolerate all our BS with a grateful smile and maybe one day kiddy you might get a sweetie. But dare to raise a sceptical eyebrow or make a sarcastic comment back and you're dead to us forever....


Again, Black or white. Turn up and behave like a lady's front bottom and wonder why you didn't get the best car/ service? Works both ways, but you can't see that .
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We hired a car in Iceland from a small company called SAD Cars.
All their cars are very second hand!

When I took delivery it was covered on bumps and scratches.

"Where is the sheet to record all these"

"Oh, no need, we don't do that...so long as it comes back with all its wheels and glass that is good enough...enjoy Iceland"

It wasn't a scheme, it was just their business...older but well maintained cars, lower price for the customer and minimum hassle.

I strongly recommend them.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Roguevfr wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:


As I already said, it's the reps job to get the correct value for the car at point of rental, if the customer is prepared to get a better car AND pay the appropriate cost, then thats doing their job properly. Nothing " being gullible" about it at all.
As I said, AND YOUVE PROVED , you might well have been going to get the upgrade free anyway. No harm in asking.


Here we go again on the semantics and the bizarre accounting rectitude and upstandingness of the industry- there is no correct value or appropriate cost.

The rep's job as we customers perceive it is to take as much cash as possible for each asset in use. But you yourself have admitted that's a variable amount hence discounting when utilisation is low and pricing up to full rack for walk ins when the last few remain.


As you perceive it is correct . That's literally their job. Why should it be any different ? The business owner / manager/ operator sets the price for the return they expect / require for their service. The employee is expected to complete transactions in order to maximise the returns . Whether that has flexibility in the pricing for operational purposes, or is affected by outside influence is irrelevant .


Good so you admit there is no "correct price". Perhaps educate us as to what the price "set by the operator" is (I'd call it a target) and whether it is above that which they have already contracted by accepting a booking?

As for the why should it be any different? Well how about if the rep's job was simply to complete admin in an efficient way and leave the customer with a positive customer service experience? Why do they need to have a role in maximising sales value at all, especially as pre -booking and agreement of rates is easy to do digitally these days?
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I don't think @Roguevfr, 's central point is unreasonable.

You have a price for rental. If you break it you pay.
If you don't want to pay get cover insurance.

Everyone knows there is a big excess if you prang it. I smashed a Hertz car (it is a funny story I'll tell you on the bashes) and had to pay £190. Which was fair enough.

It is similar to Ryanair where you know the base price and if you want extras you pay or you take the chance of being at the airport and your bag being too big.

However, there seems to be a big issue that some companies renting need to upgrade their bash charts.

I hired a lot from Southampton and the Hertz people there were great. I did find a few dings not listed (not bigger than golf ball size). But they did give me the form to check so in added everything.

On return I simply handed over and said no additional damage see you next month. They even said don't clean on return, we do that anyway.

The easy thing is for full pricing to include everything, but you can't blame the companies for their model because consumers search online for base headline prices.

The real cost of renting is probably 20% more than what it actually is listed.
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Roguevfr wrote:
Ooh, tricksey he is!

Look, under any discussion about a benefit or supposed improvement to the original offer if your next question in response isn't "is there an additional cost for this"? then I don't know what to tell you. Employees doing what they are instructed to do by their employers ? Whatever next?


Yeah it's him being tricksey rolling eyes

So, if I've understood this right, you're saying that the onus is on the customer to check that they're still paying the same price and if they don't but agree to the upgrade then it's okay for the company to charge more? If that's the case then I'd be interested to hear the opinion of a lawyer on that one.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
I don't think @Roguevfr, 's central point is unreasonable.



The real cost of renting is probably 20% more than what it actually is listed.


I don't think his point is unreasonable either but the way he has gone about arguing it seems to say a lot to me about the attitudes and approaches in the rental car industry. Many people are positively saying give us the excess cover all-in but clear in advance and benchmarkable not via high pressure sales at a take it or leave it price at the desk.

I'd be surprised if the real cost of renting is only 20% more than headline. Feels like more.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
The easy thing is for full pricing to include everything, but you can't blame the companies for their model because consumers search online for base headline prices.


This is true, but it works both ways and I don't think companies should feel it's unreasonable for customers to feel that they're getting the hard sell of several add ons when they've just got off a plane and dealt with mucho queuing.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:


Good so you admit there is no "correct price". Perhaps educate us as to what the price "set by the operator" is (I'd call it a target) and whether it is above that which they have already contracted by accepting a booking?

As for the why should it be any different? Well how about if the rep's job was simply to complete admin in an efficient way and leave the customer with a positive customer service experience? Why do they need to have a role in maximising sales value at all, especially as pre -booking and agreement of rates is easy to do digitally these days?


Call it what you want, the price the owner sets is the " correct price or target price or whatever you want to describe it as. " call it RRP or MRRP or cauliflower cheese if you like. It's no different from going into a sales environment and finding that an 80" TV costs more than a 42" one.
Now you might well negotiate a "deal" on the price ,but more than likely you'll be met with a blank stare and told that the ticket price is the final price.

As to what the rep's job description entails : no idea, why don't you ask the owners of the company ? I guess most employees do what they're expected to do , without having to have an existential higher purpose. Perhaps set it up yourself with the prime objective of being known for leaving your customers with a free ego massage.
I've no reason to attempt to alter your firmly entrenched biases , so , no need to expect me to try to repudiate your beliefs, since it's a pointless exercise .
We've never met, and probably never will, but I'm betting that if you display the same mindset in your other transactions with people , then you've probably eaten a lot of spitburgers.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
Roguevfr wrote:
Ooh, tricksey he is!

Look, under any discussion about a benefit or supposed improvement to the original offer if your next question in response isn't "is there an additional cost for this"? then I don't know what to tell you. Employees doing what they are instructed to do by their employers ? Whatever next?


Yeah it's him being tricksey rolling eyes

So, if I've understood this right, you're saying that the onus is on the customer to check that they're still paying the same price and if they don't but agree to the upgrade then it's okay for the company to charge more? If that's the case then I'd be interested to hear the opinion of a lawyer on that one.


Isn't checking what the cost is something that any person with any common sense would do ?
As i said before,I'm neither the arbiter of, nor spokesman for the rental industry and was neither present,nor approve or suggest that this should be a tactic, sales method or procedure that should be used. Take it up with Judge Judy if you want , but don't attribute any such practices or suggestions to me.
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Roguevfr, it's common sense to check, but I suspect it's not completely legal for the company not to make it explicitly clear that there is an increase in cost.

I do find your general attitude towards customers interesting, I hope that's not the general view in the industry but suspect that it is. No doubt you've had to deal with some real chancers and idiots in your time, but seems to me that your default position is to blame the customer and then come up with a reason why.
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy