 Poster: A snowHead
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For circa £1300 that gets me a week in Galtur/Ischgl including full area lift pass and superior ski hire, in a 4* Hotel, full board, with superb food. Yes, its 10-20 mins on a bus to which ever lift/area we are going to ski.
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@skitech, For a decent, well-equipped, ski-in, ski-out apartment here in Saalbach, you’d probably be paying around £300 per person (based on a couple sharing a studio, or four sharing a four-bed apartment). Add a reasonably generous £200 for evening restaurant meals (the cost of breakfast being fairly negligible for most people), £120 for ski/boot hire, and £260 for a full 6 day lift pass, and that adds up to £880. Is that a false economy, compared with £1,300?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@tatmanstours,
Flights, Transfers, airport parking, tourism tax, tolls & fuel if renting/driving, etc. They all get added in when we work out P.P.P
but then we don't include food & drink....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Corky wrote: |
| @buchanan101, The link to Samnaum village is quite often shut in bad weather but the links to the Alp Bella restaurant much less so. |
Yea, the gondola back up to Alp Trida from Samnaun must have quite a high wind risk, so they probably close 60 and 80 if there's a forecast risk to avoid a major headache.
For Alp Bella wind closing N1, the main chair back which gets a little exposed for the last 3rd (god bless the bubble canopy) is more of a concern. Guessing the back-up would be N4+O1/O4, but never had to try as they tend to close the lifts up to the border ridge if there's and predicted wind risk. And if you can't get to Alp Bella you head to Paznauner Thaya which does the second best rotisserie chicken on the mountain (and DJ free till about 3pm).
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| johnE wrote: |
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For circa £1300 that gets me a week
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Gulp! £1300 for a week's ski holiday Is that per person or for a couple? |
per person, but it is my main holiday 
Ive done the self catering, catered chalets in France in my younger days when a place to crash and great skiing where on the agenda, now a little/lot older I like the luxuries of a decent hotel and great skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
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For circa £1300 that gets me a week in Galtur/Ischgl including full area lift pass and superior ski hire, in a 4* Hotel, full board, with superb food. Yes, its 10-20 mins on a bus to which ever lift/area we are going to ski.
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@skitech, For a decent, well-equipped, ski-in, ski-out apartment here in Saalbach, you’d probably be paying around £300 per person (based on a couple sharing a studio, or four sharing a four-bed apartment). Add a reasonably generous £200 for evening restaurant meals (the cost of breakfast being fairly negligible for most people), £120 for ski/boot hire, and £260 for a full 6 day lift pass, and that adds up to £880. Is that a false economy, compared with £1,300? |
I was comparing what I used to pay for a ski holiday in France (self catering/2 or 3* hotel with what I pay for Austrian qaulity at a similar price. Skiing in my main holiday and I now like the luxury of everything being under one very nice roof
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@skitech, Understood, although it should be borne in mind that, generally speaking, the standards of S/C accommodation in typical, purpose-built French ski stations and Austrian ski villages are (from what I hear) worlds apart. As are many other things, not least restaurant prices. Vive, as they say, la difference!
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Understood, although it should be borne in mind that, generally speaking, the standards of S/C accommodation in typical, purpose-built French ski stations and Austrian ski villages are (from what I hear) worlds apart. As are many other things, not least restaurant prices. Vive, as they say, la difference!
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Which way? I haven't found the restaurants in Austria more expensive than France.
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They aren’t in our experience - more likely the other way round.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@tatmanstours, Happy birthday
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This is my experience - this is on average, and obviously varies depending on resort:
In terms of restaurant prices (in town and on the slopes), France is most expensive, followed by Austria, then Italy as the cheapest. But I have also found the food to be of better quality in France.
Lift passes for smaller resorts tend to be cheaper in France and more expensive in Italy / Austria, but for large ski areas there is little difference.
Ski hire is cheaper in France, more expensive in Italy / Austria.
Car hire is cheaper in Italy and France, more expensive in Austria. But the reverse is true for resort transfers / public transport options.
Flights from Scotland are cheap to Italy, mid-price to France, but extortionate to Austria.
Low-end accommodation is cheaper in France, more expensive in Austria / Italy.
Lift systems tend to be best in Austria, OK in Italy, and poorest in France.
Weather is usually better in Italy, and worst in (northern) France.
Natural snow is best in France, and worst in Italy, but thanks to snowmaking, piste coverage is most reliable in Italy, and worst in France. Austria comes somewhere in the middle on both counts.
Overall, France is far cheaper for my type of trip preference - which is for high quality skiing but low-end everything else!
For 7 days skiing, prices for me have tended to work out at:
~£500 in France
~£650 in Italy
~£750 in Austria
...which puts Austria at 50% more expensive than France.
(per person, based on 2 sharing, and including everything except food)
Is Austria worth the extra money? For me, I would say no, not at the moment. But it'll be different for different people.
Also, for a full season, Austria would be my country of choice.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@johnE,Danke schön!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@denfinella,
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which puts Austria at 50% more expensive than France.
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I will only say that I’m very surprised (having skied for many years in the PDS, the 3Vs, the Paradiski, the Espace Killy, Alpe d’Huez, LDA, Serre Chevalier, St A, Mayrhofen, Badgastein, the Ski Circus - but admittedly many years ago in those French resorts, and having also more recently taken note of other people’s comments when this subject comes up in conversation). Have things changed this much? Can the Scottish flights and the omission of food costs skew the figures that much? Interested to hear other views.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Layne, it helps to pass the time
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
@denfinella,
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which puts Austria at 50% more expensive than France.
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I will only say that I’m very surprised (having skied for many years in the PDS, the 3Vs, the Paradiski, the Espace Killy, Alpe d’Huez, LDA, Serre Chevalier, St A, Mayrhofen, Badgastein, the Ski Circus - but admittedly many years ago in those French resorts, and having also more recently taken note of other people’s comments when this subject comes up in conversation). Have things changed this much? Can the Scottish flights and the omission of food costs skew the figures that much? Interested to hear other views. |
Personally, I prefer Austria.
Flights to Austria can easily be double that of france, as there the supply is a lot lower than france.
For example, from Bristol on a Saturday, I can fly to Lyon, Grenoble, Chambery & Geneva on a Saturday with more than 1 flight a day to a few destinations.
For Austria it is 2 flights to Salzburg & 1 Innsbruck
Budget accomodation does not really exist in Austria. You can get a room in France for £300, not £300 per person.
Austria has cheap transfers to a lot of destinations thanks to public transport. France transfers can be expensive. So depending on resort, this can quite easily negate the extra flight cost.
A lot more Austrian Resorts are linked up (through tarmac transport!), so sell a wider area ski pass, this can seem like a waste of money if people have no intention of skiing the full ski area & prefer to stick to just the one mountain.... plus some of the ski passes can be quite confusing!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
@denfinella,
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which puts Austria at 50% more expensive than France.
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I will only say that I’m very surprised (having skied for many years in the PDS, the 3Vs, the Paradiski, the Espace Killy, Alpe d’Huez, LDA, Serre Chevalier, St A, Mayrhofen, Badgastein, the Ski Circus - but admittedly many years ago in those French resorts, and having also more recently taken note of other people’s comments when this subject comes up in conversation). Have things changed this much? Can the Scottish flights and the omission of food costs skew the figures that much? Interested to hear other views. |
@ tatmanstours I’m sure that’s true for your like-for-like trips, but, I wonder, were you ever trying to do it on a budget? I think that makes a big different to the „is Austria cheaper/more expensive than France debate“. As I said somewhere up the thread, at the cheaper end of the spectrum, France works out cheaper than Austria. If the flight prices make up a significant cost of your holiday, then higher flight prices will have a bigger impact on the cost of your holiday, for example. I‘ve found the cheapest apartments in Austria to be more expensive than in France - the small „shoebox/rabbit hutch“ apartments common in France just don‘t seem to exist in Austria. Sure, you‘ll get something bigger/nicer and pay reasonably for it in Austria, but that doesn‘t change that if your budget only stretches to a small/cheap apartment, you‘ll have to pay less for your accommodation in France than in Austria. Similarly, I agree that particularly the cheaper on-mountain fast food is cheaper in Austria than in France - but if you take a packed lunch, then that‘s not a saving that has any impact on you.
@denfinella has put her budgets for the various countries above - I seem to remember in the past she has published really quite detailed breakdowns of all the costs associated with her trips. Can you put together a trip to Austria for 500 GBP pp?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I may be wrong, but yes,@Gämsbock, you dont get the small shoe box type apartments in Austria. Even the small ones tend to have a balcony. So having to pay more for your accommodation is quite likely, but makes the whole experience better IMHO. If you are doing self catering, yes I understand that the majority of the time, your out skiing, but if its a tight budget, then eating in would be important, and living in a show box for the week wouldn`t be my idea of a holiday I`m afraid.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@jafa, different strokes for different folks. I‘m actually a fan of skiing in Austria but the tone of this thread leans towards not accepting any suggestions that for some circumstances, other countries have their benefits too. There‘s such a thing as protesting too much.
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@Layne, You know why this thread is still going – it’s because we all love skiing and since we cannot do it at the moment are contenting ourselves with talking about it and reading about it.
Due to Covid there have been very few trip reports and even the historic ones have dried up (I loved your early ski adventure reports) so that leaves us with our perennial favourites: buying an apartment (well since we are dreaming about skiing we may as well extend our fantasies), winter tyres, the best route to drive to the Dolomites, where to go next season and of course which is best Austria or France.
This, of course, is entirely subjective, so the discussion can go on for a long time since our criteria as to what is best are different. The OP decides to reignite the discussion by asking “is Austria more expensive than France” and then disappears from the forum completely. We of course find areas where Austria is more expensive than France and vice versa. I once paid £3 for a coffee in Courchevel and then again 13€ for a waiter served meal of lamb chops, potatoes and veg in Vallandry. Thirty years ago £3 was a lot of money for a coffee. 2 years ago 13€ was good value for a meal.
We, of course start defending our preferred destination by throwing other points into the ring such as Austria has better lifts and France has smaller lift queues. Then we drift onto what size apartments can you rent in Austria and France. It appears that this is largely based upon our experiences many years ago. I’m not immune to these ancient memories, one of my memories of Saalbach Hinterglemm is waiting for 2 hours for a bus to turn up that was supposed to run every 15 minutes and missing my ski lesson. Ever since I have hated the concept of relying on ski busses.
To me these discussions are similar to pub arguments such as why I prefer watching rugby league to watching rugby union (here in the midlands such arguments are met with “Rugby – isn’t that the town near Coventry). They are fun but we all know no conclusion would be reached.
After a while of watching and waiting the Italophile readers will join in and the Swiss will sit quietly and neutrally on the side-lines watching us all denigrate the other countries hoping to pick up the remaining customers. A bit like the first world war really
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Despite my preference for Austria, the cheapest family ski trip we have done in the last few years was an Easter week in Les Coches (Paradiski). Self-drive, self catering, one evening meal out, fabulous big lunches every day, no lessons, kids ski hire - All up £600 each, including everything for leaving home to getting back again.
One bed apartment with a sofa bed in the living room was a bit rustic but OK. The deal was £300 per person for accom and lift pass, plus free ski hire as a bonus. Lunches were more than Austria but the food was more varied - Plat du jour options were excellent generally. Beer was 2-3 euros more per pint but, overall, food and drink on the mountain was not a deal breaker given the overall bargain nature of the trip.
I would be happy to go again and bear other destinations no ill will.
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@Klamm Franzer, A 2 piece apartment at Easter in Paradiski should cost 3-400€.
There are some excellent restaurants in Les Coches. If we were in the La Plagne area we would ski down especially for lunch, or if the snow was good all the way down to Champagny. Usually a decent, though not grand lunch would cost 13-14€
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@tatmanstours, @Gämsbock, etc., yes, I'd probably concur that while France is often cheaper at the budget end of the spectrum, there is less difference for middle or high-end holidays. I have tried to price up Saalbach before, and wasn't able to get it within my budget.
I also have considerably less experience of skiing in Austria than in France or Italy, though I have tried to price up numerous Austrian trips.
Happy to be more specific with price breakdowns if anyone wants.
One other thing I didn't mention before is that flight times to Geneva (for northern French Alps or Western Switzerland) are a big draw, as they allow nearly 8 days skiing on a Saturday to Saturday trip.
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It looks like one of the main defining aspects between France and Austria is missing here: French Alps in general have a much larger high-season/low-season price difference.
Directly related of course to the French second-home-ski-suburbia.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| LaForet wrote: |
@mikewearden I think what you're probably realising is that Austria isn't more expensive than anywhere else, but the sort of catered chalet holiday you're wanting is. The catered chalet is a British invention that worked well in France where UK agencies could organise low-paid UK youngsters to go out, undercutting local labour rates that would otherwise have made it a much pricier model. A generation of British tourists came to think that the catered thing was the prime model for skiing, when in reality it was something of an exception. You could always get it elsewhere like Austria or Switzerland, but it was more of a premium luxury offering.
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That's a very accurate posting. If I may add, it's the business model which is different. Most French resorts were purpose-built on public initiative mainly any with public money to serve two purposes: a) Bringing decent jobs to rural areas. b) Make skiing affordable for everyone. That's why there are so many tiny apartments around. In a way the English chalet-companies were always undercutting this scheme by importing lots of cheap labour to work proper jobs without offering real career opportunities.
Austria on the other hand took a more private approach. With a lot of public money as well, but it's the big stakeholders in the mountain villages - the farmers-become-hoteliers - who call all the shots. And they manage to do all the exploitation themselves, that is bringing in cheap labour from Eastern Europe.
That's why offerings which include a lot of services, e.g. hotels 4* and up, but also mountain restaurants, etc., are cheaper in Austria than in France. If it's just to do about an on-slope apartment and a lift pass, France is much cheaper.
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Cheap flights to Salzburg, Hire a minibus, hire a house, 8 of us, mixture of eat in and eat out, Ski Amade.
Flights, Transfers, convenience of minibus, luxury accommodation for week, privacy, make as much noise as we liked, 45 minute transfer....
£425 PP
Add in €4 a beer, Lidl in the town for great value, the best snow conditions in years, gets no better.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Frosty the Snowman, Plus Ski Hire (or airline carriage charges) and Lift Pass and you'd take that up to around £750 pp which is as cheap as I can offer low-season in Ski Amade.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plus Ski Hire (or airline carriage charges) and Lift Pass and you'd take that up to around £750 pp which is as cheap as I can offer low-season in Ski Amade.
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Or around £600, before we were introduced to the wonderful world of Brexit (just saying) 
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@tatmanstours, How has BREXIT added £150 quid? I'd have given you a similar quote for the 2019/20 season.
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You know it makes sense.
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@RedandWhiteFlachau, I was working on the basis that we were introduced to that “wonderful world” in 2016, and that previously the £ had been worth up to €1.43 IIRC.
Certainly I remember living like kings here and laughing carelessly at restaurant bills and the like, before the hammer fell and we were suddenly at least 20% poorer. (Not trying to start a debate about “the ‘B’ word, by the way - there are other topics in this forum for that).
However it’s an indisputable fact that skiing holidays were becoming more affordable until 2016, and now everything connected with holidaying in Europe is more expensive.
To quote the refrain in one of my favourite songs (“Explorers of the Infinite” by Pendragon), “It is what it is; there’s nothing you can do about it”.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@tatmanstours, I remember holidaying in Greece in 2009 when the GBP - Euro was 1.09......would say its do with each Countries economy and nothing to do with the 'B' word......just saying 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Simon94, with respect there can be absolutely no doubt that the sudden plunge in the value of the £ in 2016 was directly related to the ‘B’ word.
When we bought our first apartment in Saalbach in 2007, the £ was worth €1.40 (somewhat lower than it had been.
Then came the global financial crash in 2008 (which was the cause of the £ tanking), but we still managed to get €1.22 when we bought our second apartment in the spring of that year.
When you took your holiday in Greece the £ was probably about as low as it got against the euro, in the aftermath of the financial crisis. However, over the next eight years it gradually regained its value, being on a general upwards trajectory between 2009 and 2016. (You can check this out on the following link - click on “max” to see the relevant graph: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=£100+in+euros&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari ). Who knows how high it might have climbed?
Again, when we entered the wonderful world of the ‘B’ word in 2016, the £ abruptly dived from over €1.40 to near parity. Previously we’d been living like kings and laughing carelessly at restaurant bills; all of a sudden we felt like paupers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mjit wrote: |
| Corky wrote: |
| @buchanan101, The link to Samnaum village is quite often shut in bad weather but the links to the Alp Bella restaurant much less so. |
Yea, the gondola back up to Alp Trida from Samnaun must have quite a high wind risk, so they probably close 60 and 80 if there's a forecast risk to avoid a major headache.
For Alp Bella wind closing N1, the main chair back which gets a little exposed for the last 3rd (god bless the bubble canopy) is more of a concern. Guessing the back-up would be N4+O1/O4, but never had to try as they tend to close the lifts up to the border ridge if there's and predicted wind risk. And if you can't get to Alp Bella you head to Paznauner Thaya which does the second best rotisserie chicken on the mountain (and DJ free till about 3pm). |
Doubt they close 60 and 80 as there are people who stay in hotels in Samnaun
Yes, always my concern skiing over - look at the wind forecast; haven't actually seen lifts closing as yet, but O1 and O4 would be back ups, yes
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| denfinella wrote: |
Flights from Scotland are cheap to Italy, mid-price to France, but extortionate to Austria.
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Hmm, we regularly travel to Austria and Italy, generally find getting to Austria is cheaper than Italy. Gave up skiing in France as eating and drinking were so expensive. It's not hard to get a cheap flight to Munich with Easyjet or KLM.
Next season we have Jet2 to Innsbruck in addition to the Salzburg flight.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| denfinella wrote: |
Flights from Scotland are cheap to Italy, mid-price to France, but extortionate to Austria.
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Hmm, we regularly travel to Austria and Italy, generally find getting to Austria is cheaper than Italy. Gave up skiing in France as eating and drinking were so expensive. It's not hard to get a cheap flight to Munich with Easyjet or KLM.
Next season we have Jet2 to Innsbruck in addition to the Salzburg flight. |
I generally use Avios for BA flights to Innsbruck (usually). The business class option is good value as allows 2 hold items (so skis included) and boots can be carried on. And you get food, and lounge (food/drink) both ends. Comparing with an Easyjet flight with skis etc it's actually not too bad even if purchasing with ££.
Books up quickly and I often book each leg separately 355 days in advance. (If they cancel due to Covid, total refund, if you cancel/change, £35 cost i think, and keep the Avios)
Trying BA to Munich next Feb; presumably there are BA flights to there from Scotland?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Ghost Dog wrote: |
| .... Gave up skiing in France as eating and drinking were so expensive... |
Gave up skiing in France as the French/Saisonnaires became disinterested in being particularly welcoming. Gallic indifference and pricey Lift passes combined with high volume numbers of skiers, long lift queues, and overpriced on mountain resto's totally killed France for me. I've skied exclusively Italy and Austria for the past dozen years, I've had great value holidays both hotels and Chalets, some better than others. I now tend to go completely independently doing flights/car-hire/hotel to areas and regions I know well (Arlberg or Aosta) and manage to get a few weeks each year without breaking the bank. You pays your money, you takes your choice. If the OP is looking for a pleasant place to ski, the Austria has a lot going for it.
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Austria generally has better weather for skiing than France. Its location further east is more sheltered, cooler and has lighter winds. It’s drier climate is better suited to snow making and its grassy tree sheltered slopes hold the snow better, require less depth and are less prone to closure by wind or avalanche risk. Visibility is also good in the trees so these days it can be a more reliable destination for a 6 day early season holiday from the UK.
It also has more and better toilets 
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@Peter S, ....and they are clean, plus you don’t have to pay for the loo-roll by the sheet as was the case last time we skied Val/ Tignes. 
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @Peter S, ....and they are clean, plus you don’t have to pay for the loo-roll by the sheet as was the case last time we skied Val/ Tignes. |
Good grief. That was presumably somewhere which also served disgusting and overpriced food. Such places, which exist in every country, are easily identifiable and can be avoided.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
It also has more and better toilets
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I have to say I've never noticed that one, but I think their toilettes may be more fun. I remember reading somewhere about a restraurant in an Austrian ski resort that had a slide you used to slide down to the basement toilets. Does any one recall where that was?
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coin operated loo roll dispenser sounds like Ryanair has branched out into hospitality 
don't recall any slides in to a loo basement, but they could be kinda fun
the thing I found strange is the number of gents toilets in austria that have a proper hair dryer
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FAQ
