On your last paragraph Richard, how much of that is down to the excellent snow making in Austrian resorts, better than anywhere apart from Italy?
(Excellent snow making is another reason I choose Austria, to go alongside the best lifts in Europe)
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@buchanan101,
Quote:
On your last paragraph Richard, how much of that is down to the excellent snow making in Austrian resorts, better than anywhere apart from Italy?
I think that the snowmaking has certainly improved reliability at the extremities of the season - in December and at Easter. From what I’ve read, planning a ski holiday at such times was always historically a gamble, whereas now it isn’t so much.
In my experience, problems caused by lack of snow
seem to arise from continuous periods of fine weather, rather than warm temperatures. So snowmaking is particularly useful during times of snow drought, when we have weeks of sunshine and cloudless skies (but air temperatures, particularly at night, are cold enough for significant amounts of snow to be manufactured).
That said, the cannons here in the Ski Circus seem to be belting out large quantities of snow, whatever the weather, during most of the season, and building up such snow depths that adequate coverage on all the main pistes (notably those that go right down to the village), as well as on the village-level nursery slopes, can be guaranteed until the end of the season.
It has often been observed that the season ends, around the second week of April, not through lack of snow, but through lack of holiday-makers. Few people plan ski holidays after Easter.
When it comes to comparing the snow conditions between France and Austria, and in terms of altitude, I’m certainly no expert. However there have been many discussions about this on this forum, and the received wisdom appears to be that the relevant influencing factors are the significant maritime effect of the Atlantic Ocean and Gulf Stream on the western Alps and presumably the Pyrenees), the prevailing wind being south-westerly, and the exposure of the eastern Alps to a different weather system with cold, continental air permeating from the north and east.
Those of us who have regularly skied in France and Austria will most certainly have observed that there is a marked difference in snow reliability at say 1,000m, or at 1500m. Whereas Kitzbühel is a major ski resort at 762m, and there are many other Austrian resorts at similar (or even lower) altitudes, I can’t think of any French resorts lower than 1,100m. And when I’m enjoying the spring skiing in Saalbach (1,000m) in early April, I generally assume, rightly or wrongly, that I would have go to somewhere like Meribel, Courchevel 1600, or Les Arcs 1600 to find similar conditions.
FWIW my own observation, based on spending the whole winter in the Austrian Alps, is that the wind seems to be generally alternating between southerly and north-westerly - a constant cycle of mild conditions followed by extreme cold and snowy weather.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
tatmanstours wrote:
@buchanan101,
Quote:
On your last paragraph Richard, how much of that is down to the excellent snow making in Austrian resorts, better than anywhere apart from Italy?
Whereas Kitzbühel is a major ski resort at 762m
I thought they had somehow found 38m more of height to make it sound better... as listed on j2ski
I thought they had somehow found 38m more of height to make it sound better... as listed on j2ski
And yet no one in Austria would think that it needs to “sound better”. There are plenty of successful Austrian resorts between 600m and 900m. It’s not a big deal as long as the snow continues to fall in sufficient quantities and at such altitudes between December and the end of March.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@tatmanstours, What have you done? I had never heard Who is Nikki Lauda's Mother? so found it on YouTube.
Good grief...I doubt if I will ever recover from the aural torture!
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@radar, I never suspected you of this - although that video does have its watchable moments
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Whilst we’re on this subject (and it does arguably have some relevance to what extra you get for your money in Austria), I think this has to be one of my favourite après-ski songs:
I suppose it is Eurovision Song Contest season....
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@LOTA, Can't Wait for Saturday !!!
@tatmanstours, here's another classic http://youtube.com/v/CE70PHlgrlo , agree with you choice that is one of the better ones, the key to a good Austrian Apre song is being able to sing along without a clue of what its about , they don't have that in France
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
polo wrote:
And since when do you have to add 500m to compare altitude? Wasn’t it actually colder in France this year?
You don't add 500m to compare altitude as that's an absolute based on mean sea level. You DO add 500m to compare the altitude of the snow line between western and eastern Alps though, just as you add about 10° latitude to compare between the US east cost and UK.
And surely levels/duration of snowfall would be a more useful metric than temperature. I mean Alpe d'Huez claims to have more days sunshine than anywhere else - does that mean there's no snow?
buchanan101 wrote:
Agree with you on Eurotrash - one particular bar up the mountain in Ischgl is just horrid because of the music playing outside (I guess anyone who has been to Ischgl will know the one, whether they like the music or not).
That would probably be Paznauner Thaya from memory - but much like the apres in town in Ischgl if you don't like it, don't stop there. Idalp will generally have a more rock playlist, while I'm not sure they play any music at Schwarzwand. In town you have the Golden Eagle for rock or Kiwi Bar/Trofana Royal hotel bar/Hotel Post bar for a civilised, music-free drink.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
tatmanstours wrote:
Whilst we’re on this subject (and it does arguably have some relevance to what extra you get for your money in Austria), I think this has to be one of my favourite après-ski songs:
Oh dear, I thought the point of this thread was to show what a good place Austria is to have a ski holiday. Cant see Helene Fischer songs being a great attract for Millennials
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@radar, Mrs TT says you’re a sadist, and that, if I persist in playing Johnny Däpp, she’s leaving home.
Having said that, I do admire the Austrian’s lack of prudishness, evident in the videos you’ve posted. Benny Hill had Austrian blood flowing through his veins, as evidenced by his partiality to lederhosen.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@munich_irish, attracting millennials is not the aim!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@tatmanstours, to ensure harmony in the household I'll just stick to Nikki Lauda .
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
And surely levels/duration of snowfall would be a more useful metric than temperature. I mean Alpe d'Huez claims to have more days sunshine than anywhere else - does that mean there's no snow?
No, but being over 1800m does help. I suppose the point is that one would not expect a sunny Austrian resort to have to be over 1800 to have similar skiing conditions - more like 1300m?
@radar, Mrs TT says you’re a sadist, and that, if I persist in playing Johnny Däpp, she’s leaving home.
Having said that, I do admire the Austrian’s lack of prudishness, evident in the videos you’ve posted. Benny Hill had Austrian blood flowing through his veins, as evidenced by his partiality to lederhosen.
Hill, Hill, Hill, Benni Hill, Hill hill.......
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yeah I get that it snows lower in Austria most years.....big difference surely between eastern end of Austria and western end, just like there's a big difference between northern french alps and southern french alps. Pendantic but true.
France apres is much under-rated in my view, but again depends on so many individual factors...age / taste etc. So many festivals, DJ events, good bars etc....Austria must have a more diverse music offering surely than St Anton anthems? (worst part was the daily repetition). I dare not press play on any of the above.
big difference surely between eastern end of Austria and western end, just like there's a big difference between northern french alps and southern french alps.
Some difference, certainly. A meteorologist would know.
Quote:
France apres is much under-rated in my view, but again depends on so many individual factors...age / taste etc. So many festivals, DJ events, good bars etc...
Don’t you need a bank loan to afford a beer at the Folie Douce?
Quote:
Austria must have a more diverse music offering surely than St Anton anthems? (worst part was the daily repetition).
The Austrian bar-owners (and possibly Austrians generally, judging by other aspects of their culture) do seem to be strikingly resistant to change. When they decide they like a song, it stays in their playlist forever. I think they’ll still be playing BoneyM and Robbie Williams long after most of us have hung up our skis for good.
I remember being struck by the fact that the song list hadn’t changed much between my first visit to the Hinterhag Alm in 1988 and my next visit in about 2004. The fact that traditions tend to be clung onto may be part of the charm - it enhances the nostalgia factor. I know that, when I was living in the U.K., the first blast of an Austrian après-ski song at the beginning of winter was like a bugle to an old warhorse.
I do agree though that too much repetition becomes tedious.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@polo, I believe the play list and DJ at the Mooserwirt at St Anton have been unchanged for around 20 years! Take me home country roads, Viva Colonia, Sweet Caroline, Highway to Hell etc seem to bring the crowds back everyday. I guess all a bit passé for La Folie Douce
After all it is free
After all it is free
Only been to Folie for one beer.....yeah it's quite the scene, thumping house and live artists are fun for a while, and prices comparable with Moosewirt?, certainly up there with Verbier, Megeve etc.....DJ's tend to be under 75 though if you are into that kind of thing. Am sure you can find beer for 10 eur a bottle in many places, or just BYO and sit in the snow.
Am more into live bands, funk, disco, indie, reggae, hip hop.....it's all there in my local 'family' resort. You eastern based music neaderthals should come west someday, open invite for open minds
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Quote:
Am more into live bands, funk, disco, indie, reggae, hip hop.....it's all there in my local 'family' resort. You eastern based music neaderthals should come west someday, open invite for open minds
Much as I hate to take issue, I’ve found over many years that the “open minds” embrace the cultural difference in Austria, suspend their usual musical preferences and critical faculties, at least for a week, and join in the fun.
The “closed minds” however grit their teeth, furrow their brows, adopt pained expressions, complain vociferously, and apparently yearn for exactly the same kind of musical entertainment that they would seek out when at home.
It’s similar to Brits who go on holiday to Spain and complain about the menu.
The least open-minded, in my experience, tend to be teenagers, who in general roll their eyes and play with their phones, whilst their elders are up on the tables, playing air guitar to Highway To Hell.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 18-05-21 17:09; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Of course all musical tastes are catered for in Austria. The cheesy après bars are strictly for tourists.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
There's an upside to a resort/country having a common core playlist though. It didn't take too many bars before even our friend who's broken up with a girl named Caroline days before the trip saw the funny side of the "Sweet Caroline bar crawl", where you drink in a bar until they play Sweet Caroline, then repeat in the next bar, and the next, and...
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We've chosen Austria for our last 2 trips when travelling with budget-conscious friends! All-in, works out cheaper than many French resorts, for sure.
Mountain food - way, way cheaper
Transfers - way cheaper (there are a lot of very short transfers depending on where you go)
Lift passes - a bit cheaper
Apres drinks - cheaper
Lift queues - shorter/quicker (no financial benefit, but more time for skiing)
We have gone SC, and stayed right by either a bus stop or a train stop. We've never been longer than 12 mins from the lift station (with skis in a locker at the lift). Austrian transport is ridiculously efficient, and very easy/pleasant to use. It's very low stress leaving your accommodation with normal shoes on, and nothing to carry apart from your day bag, and being on the lift 25 mins later without getting all hot and bothered walking up to a lift in ski boots.
The Kitzbuhel area is big - plenty to ski there. Cheap flights to Munich, or to Salzburg/Innsbruck for slightly shorter transfers. WE transferred back to Munich by train last time, as we had a late flight home, and plenty of time to kill - super cheap!
We've skied Zell am See too, but it's much smaller.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Some great examples of cheesy apres-ski songs in that post and I for one am missing hearing Jonny Dapp, the Eisbaren, Helikopter 117 and all the rest of the German songs, and of course Highway to hell, and sweet caroline, not forgetting the opening song for the Moose every day for the past 20+ years, 'the final countdown'.
There are also plenty of decent rock cover bands in most places in Austria too if the Europop gets a bit much. It's a holiday after all, no need for anything too serious.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@JohnS4, How did I miss that one ! full of cheese
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@tatmanstours, I'm gritting my teeth right now thinking of all the jager bombs and table dancing......5 days was enough for a lifetime though
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@polo, possibly an acquired taste for some people - stick at it!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Apres is surely judged by the time it takes from entering the bar to standing on a table singing a very cheesy song. At least it’s all over by 8pm and you are eating before bedtime. Repeat the next day....
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think what struck me about my trips to France was that the clubs were far better than Austria but I was generally unable to stay awake long enough to enjoy them.
Generally (and I mean generally) I found longer descents in France, more varied off piste (I know Stanton has it all). But often the piste condition was poor or more chance of stones showing through. This was particularly the case early season. Many holidays in La Plagne early season disappointed me for the quality of the pistes. However for late season high altitude France beats Austria.
On your last paragraph Richard, how much of that is down to the excellent snow making in Austrian resorts, better than anywhere apart from Italy?
(Excellent snow making is another reason I choose Austria, to go alongside the best lifts in Europe)
It’s not only the superior snow making, but the way it’s managed. We won’t bother with the Skiwelt again, partly because lots of the pistes are short and dull, but also because they didn’t manage to open up many runs one Christmas. There was little natural snow, yet all the other areas in the same region seemed to have a decent amount of pistes open as they’d managed their man made well.
As for the music, it’s so bad it’s genius. I love it! My Shazam history could keep a few hours of apres partying going.
“It’s so bad it’s good” is one of Mrs TT’s favourite expressions. A certain Elvis/Tom Jones impersonator, who appears once a week in a local hotel (and looks, by his age and physical condition, as if he might even be the real Elvis) fits that description.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Personally I can't be doing with any piste-side bars blasting out poor quality muzak; I'm there to ski in beautiful mountains, not be deafened by the cheesiest sounds this side of Eurovision!
However, saying that we did enjoy the Forsthofalm's DJ in Leogang last time (2019!). He played jazzy house at a reasonable volume with a pretty decent sax player jamming along. I was very happy to sit there and watch the sun go down with a couple of weissbiers before wobbling down the sheet ice just below it...
After all it is free
After all it is free
I was thinking of going to Austria next year but this thread is really putting me off .
But seriously, is it worth me searching for smallish areas without gondolas (and loud music) or are they both compulsory? Touring in a motorhome btw.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@BoardieK, Loud cheesy music is optional and can easily be avoided, plenty of quiet places with no music too. Gondolas much more difficult to avoid. There must be some small areas without them but anywhere of a reasonable size will have one or two. In recent times the trend has been to replace high volume chairs with gondolas especially for routes out of the valley. Most places have motorhome spots, cant help with how busy they get as much prefer the comforts of bricks and mortar.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Despite not liking cheesey music I love Austria - much prefer it to France and even Italy (though I like them too). I just avoid anywhere with bangin' choons,or with big crowds as you know the bangin' choons will soon be starting! That applies not just to Austria... Currently deciding whether next year is on, and if so should it be Silvretta Montafon, Serfhaus, Saalbach/Hinterglemm (yet again!) or do I dare to try somewhere in the St Gervais area?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
, they don't have that in France 
.
