I'm worried my boots are too big.

A snowHead

Whilst on a school ski trip I decided to purchase some ski boots. The fitting was basically 'what shoe size are you? right try these'

I ended up purchasing some Atomic T9 boots (I was told they are enxt seasons, but a mark in the shell says 04?) For the first few days there boots where a bit tight, especially over the top fo the foot. If i stand up in them, then my toes are pushed against the front, not nice, but adapting the ski position and they are fine.

Thing is ont he last day of skiing I was finding it hard to keep forward in my boots, and I could lift my heel up. Now this is only by a few mm, but am I supposed to be able to do this? Could the problem be acredited to having already skied hard for 7days?

Any opinions? Also what can be done if the boots are too bg? As i purchased them in resort in Austria.

A snowHead

Hi Ben,

A couple of rules of thumb used in hire shops (where, to be fair, you don't have a great deal of time to really fit a boot) are (allegedly):

* Stand straight up and your toes should touch, lean forward as if skiing and you should have some space.
* You should have around a 1/4 to 1/2 inch movement upwards at your ankle.

So...fully caveated with the Snowheads usual bootfitting caveats...it doesn't really sound (to the extent it can sound on a text based forum) as though your boots are overall too big.

They might not fit your feet too well though...in which case you may want to spend some money with CEM, Profeet or the SmallooKeeper (next season and requiring a trip to Chamonix).

Keeping forward in your boots is an entirely different bucket of fish and you probably want someone skilled in instruction to tackle that. Nothing to do with your boots IMHO...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Sorry, who are CEM? Also a trip to Chamnix is out of the question as i am spending a season in canada this year.

Thank you!!!

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Ben133, Where in Canada? There is a very well respected shop in Whistler although I have no idea what it's called. CEM is a well respected bootfitter in Oxfordshire (I think) who is a Snowhead. Search on username "CEM".

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Ben133, CEM is our sH resident UK expert on all things footsie who I can personally vouch for and can be found here.

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Ben133,

without actually seeing your feet and your boots it is very difficult to say if they are too big. the rules of thumb that David Murdoch talks about are interesting, toes on the end when you stand up I can agree with, but 1/4 -1/2 inch movement around the ankle....?????

if you stand upright and lift your heels then the calf muscle can hit the back of the boot and push your foot forward, this will also allow the heel to lift, however there should be no heel lift when you stand flexed.

the B9 is a wide fitting boot in the forefoot and comaritively (sp) narrow in the heel, it may be that it is not the correct volume for your foot, the other thing about that range of boots is the size break happpens 1/2 size earlier than most other boots, normally boots are sized like this (these are examples and lengths can vary by several mm) 26-26.5, length 304mm, 27-27.5, length 314mm. etc in the Atomic B series of boots the sizes go 25.5-26, length 304mm, 26.5-27 length 314mm, 27.5-28 length 324mm

EDIT having just re read the original post i am busy talking about B 9 s when you Have T 9s so this sizing issue does not apply.... It may be of interest to others Embarassed

As this is one of the only boots that is sized like this it could be that the guy in the shop has picked up a (for example) 27.5 assuming that it was the same size a 27 when in fact it is a full shell size bigger (when it would normally be the same)if a shell check is not performed you would put them on stand and flex and feel that they were snug, off you go skiing without thinking about it.

of course all of this is speculation, and it may well be one of many other foot related anomolies that is causing this problem.

so what can be done; if the boot is truely too big then not a lot, but if it is just has a little too much volume around the heel then some padding or a heel frame can be used to make the fit more solid.

CEM, the heel lift thing might well be out of date! And these were used to process 30-70 chalet guests rapidly through the boot hire shop...(little other practical option I'm afraid...)

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CEM, It's interesting that you say heel lift should not occur when flexed - I would agree, but most people, IME when talking about heel lift are actually standing there trying to lift their heels! Shocked

However, when the ankle is flexed the weight should shift forward .... of course many people completely fail to do this when they're actually skiing! Sad

I personally don't mind a little heel lift as it helps tell people when they're on the balls of the foot! (Bit unusual, I know)

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easiski, probably the most destructive problem we see is a physical lack of ankle flex, caused by a tight calf muscle (amongst other things)... this causes the weight to transfer to the ball of the foot and often to rotate the foot externally in an effort for the heel to remain in contact with the bottom of the boot.....how many people have you spoken to who feel that their boots are too narrow, if you perform a shell check and move the foot from side to side in the forefoot the boot appears to be wide enough, as the foot is rotated it hits the outside of the boot and feels narrow, I know i have had loads of people in the past wanting me to stretch their boots as they feel 'too narrow'

the normal solution is a regime of calf stretching, a well balanced footbed and possibly heel lifts in the boot to assist with the flexing....if i am selling the boot to the client i always either try to find the most upright boot that suits or modify the boot to make it more upright. Little Angel

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CEM, could he have an 04/05 Atomic T-series (T11, T10, (T9 wasn't available here)) boot, narrower than the Bs?

comprex,

editred info, on re-reading it is a T9.....it was early this morning

You know it makes sense.

Hi guys, thanks for the info, bit dissapointed I was lied to when buying the boot about it being next season and all that!. Yes my heel moves up, but only when I try and make it move up (I tinhk).

The boots are a 30.5 I normally wear trainers around uk14 so I'm thinking that on paper they should be the right size right? On the upper shell bit theres a marking which says 28.5 - 30.5 any significance?

Does anybody have any information on these boots then? such as flex index or such? Also would it be worth investing in a custom footbed/liner?

Oh and yes it is Whistler I shall be going.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Have a great time in Whistler, I know you will.

Still more snow falls. 10cm today....

A snowHead

CEM, would the external rotation of my foot be what causes me to sometimes (but not always, especially if I'm skiing hard) get pain and numbness in my little toe?

A snowHead

Kramer,

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

It's worse if the top two clips on my boots are a bit loose. It does make sense to me, because I've been thinking that it's something to do with my technique rather than my equipment for a while now.

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CEM, But we want people on the ball of the foot! I do agree, though, that lack of ankle flex is probably the major problem from our (ski teachers') point of view, but very few people have ever said their boot is too narrow - more likely too tight on top of the foot in rentals. Of course a goodly number complain about their toes being squished - but that's just a good way to get them to bend! Is lack of ability to flex more common in women (high heels?)

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

easiski,

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[quote="easiski"]CEM, But we want people on the ball of the foot! I do agree, though, that lack of ankle flex is probably the major problem from our (ski teachers') point of view, but very few people have ever said their boot is too narrow - more likely too tight on top of the foot in rentals. Of course a goodly number complain about their toes being squished - but that's just a good way to get them to bend! Is lack of ability to flex more common in women (high heels?)[/quote]

Yes. Little Angel

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CEM, We want them to keep their weight on the front of the foot "l'avant du pied", and to be able to shift it further forward (the front of the ball of the foot) as necessary to apply pressure to the ski. It now seems as though the carving ski definitely responds better to pressure applied around the toe binding rather than the marked centre ski. the italians keep this forward to an extreme, the french being more laid back about it (nach), but it's interesting to watch even the older instructors to see how far forward their weight is now compared with 5-10 years ago.

Now I'm not recommending "hanging" in the boots, and of course a well fitting boot is essential (don't I just know it?), but most novices do rent and therefore don't always get a well-fitting boot. There are any number of ski shops who don't even measure the poor beggars' feet - just "what size are you?" "here are your boots". I suspect a lot of the over the foot pain is due to lack of support under the foot - especially in rental boots. I've several times recommended that peeps get insoles made which they can then put in whatever boot they get (cheaper than buying a pair of boots).

SMALLZOOKEEPER, seemed likely to me. Little Angel

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CEM, explanation quite clear, to me at least, did the T9 have a medially offset clog?

comprex, All Atomic clogs are offset, Race through to beginner. Although not medially, do you mean, Ab-ducted?

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SMALLZOOKEEPER, I got some clogs in Holland last year, but they came in a box. Is this normal ? Twisted Evil

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It says 'offset shell' on it. and you can feel the offset-ness when you stick your hand down there. So these boots then, are they begginers? intermidiates? someone help?

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Ben133, If you stand upright, look straight ahead and take some steps on the spot. Now look down at you feet, you should notice that you stand with your toes somewhat outwards of your knees. i.e. left foot poiting towards 11 o'clock and right foot towards 1 o'clock. This is called Ab-duction or Eversion and is being caused by our feet over-pronating on flat surfaces. Atomic, Fischer and Nordica are now using so called 'Offset' shells to counter-act this, thus alowing you to stay in a natural stance whilst with your skis still straight. There are many arguements for and against this. I at first was completly against it, however have come to realise how difficult its is to correctly reposition the foot to neutral completly. I now belive that with a well made orthotic this can indeed be complementary. I do also belive this will lead to the reintroduction and upward manufacturing of asymetric skis. Time will tell. I'm sure LARGE will same some pennies to throw at this one.

To answer your question, are your boots any good, beginners, intermediate? Does it matter, can you flex them with a resonable amount of fluid resistance? To they hold you feet well? Do you ski well in them? Do your feet hurt? Do you have an Orthotic?

I would say they maybe too big. Little Angel

LARGEZOOKEEPER, As if you would be able to remember being in Holland, let alone what you bought!!!!!!! Twisted Evil

You know it makes sense.

Ah I see thanks for that. Yeah I do ski well in them, and they do hold my foot well (well maybe apart from the heel, but that has been discussed above) but what is an orthotic? sorry.

I'll have to get some dimensions of my feet and post them up lol.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ben133, an orthotic is another name for a footbed, they come in various forms from very soft foam inserts that accomodate the foot in the postion that it lies in ( ideal for people with arthritis or diabetics with foot problems) to very rigid carbon fibre or plastic devices that are corrective and designed to act on the position of the foot to alter the biomechanical function.

the type of orthotic / footbed used for skiing is generally somewhere in between, a semi rigid product normally molded directly to the foot from either thermo plastics or cork / resin materials, there are various ways of manufacturing a footbed; weight bearing, semi weight bearing and non weight bearing, each of these has its merits for certain foot types and deciding which one is best is down to the fitter or foot specialist that assesses your feet.

I hope that answers your question. Little Angel

A snowHead

I couldn't have asked for a better answer lol! Thank you.

In response, no I don't have an orthotic. But am considering one.

A snowHead

Ben133,

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Every time I read the title of this thread I remember the warning of my mum "not to get to big for my boots"...

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Ian Hopkinson,

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This is quite interesting to me as someone:

1. who is trying to follow easiski's advice to concentrate on applying pressure to the toe binding

2. who recently had just the type of work CEM is talking about done on my boots.

Firstly, the work has greatly helped reduce pain in my calves caused by them getting stretched beyond their comfort zone in my boots. It has also relieved pain/numbness in the balls of my feet which seems to have been caused by the things described by CEM.

So what about applying pressure to the toe binding. Doesn't the answer lie in the (semi-) rigid nature of ski boots? Putting weight on the ball of your foot surely isn't the only way of applying pressure to the toe binding. Flexing at the ankles so that your shins are pushing against the front of the boot (and pulling on the back of the boot) will (allowing for the flex of the boot) also apply pressure at the toe binding. Won't it? Puzzled

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Arno, Yes, on the nose. By correctly flexing your ski boot, remebering to try and keep shoulders and nose infront of your toes, you will drive presure though the metatarsals (ball of the foot) and set the ski for turning. A stiffer ski boot, not too stiff, will cause this effect to happen more quickly and depending on your reaction time or the way you have learned to ski this can be good or bad(hense arguements for stiffer/softer ski boots).

I for example am a light guy, 72kg and am an agressive skier. I have no need for a super stiff boot, however i ski in a W/C plug shell. This is partly to help fitting issues but mainly because i have quick reactions and like the responsiveness i get from a stiff boot to help me drive the ski at higher speeds. I have tried softer boots, ones well fitted too, however i find them dull, slow and changes greatly the character of my skis Mad

and skiing Mad

.

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After all it is free

ski with nose and shoulders infront of toes? That's a new one, will have to try that!

LARGEZOOKEEPER, and i wonder who that was Toofy Grin

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Help!!

I'm worried my boots are too big.

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