 Poster: A snowHead
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How many of the new ski tourers will continue the activity once there is a return to "ski - normality". To be clear this means lift served resort skiing. My hunch is that many will return to original ski preference.
It will be interesting to observe in seasons to come.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I reckon Mr P and I will, despite limited opportunities so far. I have my eye on a few gentle areas away from the piste where we have hiked in the summer, plus going out on proper guided tours, provided they aren’t too strenuous. Getting away from crowds into the peace and quiet of the mountains is very appealing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Rogerdodger, see my picture and more serious comment in the Wallies Thread....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ime the drop out rate for new tourers was pretty high before covid. I suspect we can see an even higher drop out rate once lifts reopen.
I think touring is always going to be pretty niche. Physically it's more demanding, there's a lot more faff, and you get a lot less time actually skiing downhill.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm in Vancouver BC, where we have some very accessible mountains along the north shore of Burrard Inlet, as well as great touring further north around Whistler and the Duffey Lake Road. The situation is quite insane in terms of the numbers, both in the resorts and the bc. I mostly now go to the Hollyburn cross country area, due to my age, and the parking lots are full at 10.30AM on a Friday morning! The big issue we have in Vancouver is the fact that the mountains are so close to the City, that people regard them as just another City park. But they're not, they have cliffs, tricky terrain and frequent freeze/thaw cycles so you can undertake a slide for life in the wrong place. Plus, we have a lot of new Canadians who are new to outdoor activities involving mountains. As a result, our poor North Shore Rescue volunteers are out just about every day on a call. Most of those people being rescued aren't ski tourers, but a lot could be described as total wallies.
There's debate going on amongst a few people in this area, about whether recreationalists should either pay for their rescue, or buy rescue insurance like you guys in Europe. Our SAR guys are adamant about not charging for rescues, as they worry people won't call it in if they think it will cost them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
you get a lot less time actually skiing downhill
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no poo sherlock
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As I mentioned in the Wallies thread.....
"Maybe the shite weather and dire snowpack etc is a blessing in disguise as would be very serious if many of these skiers that I see were actually out in more demanding/dangerous conditions though I think on the whole most are only skinning up to the mid-stations."
A friend said that there is already a concern for next season if these people go off aspiring to do some slack-country and get into pooh.
Many of the people I've seen are renting the kit and some of the gear is really good/brand new and the majority of these are on their weeks holiday and maybe are only renting for a couple of days.
What is difficult to ascertain is how many locals and people in the cities within a couple of hours like Grenoble have bought touring gear, though from what I saw in January and at the weekends there were a lot of people touring and reports that shops in the city had sold out of touring kit.
Friends here were borrowing some of my gear and they both will be buying touring boots as they just loved the comfort of them and he loved my Black Crows Atris as a ski, so maybe people that bought gear will continue to ski in their new gear as it's on a par with what they'd usually use.
I do think our pre-season ski-touring in November and December will now be far more popular though, and obviously the end of the season too, though don't think that will be much of an issue this year unless we get more snow, it's dire!
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| Nick BC wrote: |
I'm in Vancouver BC, where we have some very accessible mountains along the north shore of Burrard Inlet, as well as great touring further north around Whistler and the Duffey Lake Road. The situation is quite insane in terms of the numbers, both in the resorts and the bc. I mostly now go to the Hollyburn cross country area, due to my age, and the parking lots are full at 10.30AM on a Friday morning! The big issue we have in Vancouver is the fact that the mountains are so close to the City, that people regard them as just another City park. But they're not, they have cliffs, tricky terrain and frequent freeze/thaw cycles so you can undertake a slide for life in the wrong place. Plus, we have a lot of new Canadians who are new to outdoor activities involving mountains. As a result, our poor North Shore Rescue volunteers are out just about every day on a call. Most of those people being rescued aren't ski tourers, but a lot could be described as total wallies.
There's debate going on amongst a few people in this area, about whether recreationalists should either pay for their rescue, or buy rescue insurance like you guys in Europe. Our SAR guys are adamant about not charging for rescues, as they worry people won't call it in if they think it will cost them. |
"New Canadians" the problem eh? I see. 
I happily contribute to NSR, and there is never any real debate they should charge anyone. They clearly state they do not, have not and will not for a very good reason. The only real debate should be why the government aren't consistently funding NSR.
That said, I do wonder some times about what exactly some of the people that they rescue (or sometimes unfortunately don't) were thinking, if they ever had any sort of plan, or have ever seen a topo map of the area they are in. I know someone they rescued with their hovercraft from Indian Arm - somehow they got down there from the top of Seymour - extremely lucky, but definitely not great decision making! Tim Jones gave them a pretty to the point lecture on this all the way back!!
They recently made a TV series about North Shore Rescue, some interesting (and sad/shocking  ) stuff in it https://www.knowledge.ca/program/search-and-rescue-north-shore
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
you get a lot less time actually skiing downhill
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no poo sherlock |
Yes it's obvious but a big factor for the masses of people who are time limited.
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That TV series on Knowledge Network about North Shore Rescue was one of the very best documentaries I've ever seen. Grant Baldwin did a superb job. It isn't often I'm close to tears when watching TV - usually I'm waving my fist ... Also a shout out to BC Adventure Smart for their educational work. Hopefully, post Covid and with more education things might settle down.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Nick BC, welcome to
snowheads
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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One or two interesting comments, it occurs to me in the event that Corona virus has not been controlled by next winter the rush to the "skins" may really explode.
From a personal perspective I've ski toured for twenty years. I have always felt that there is much to learn to access back country safely. The first few seasons are a genuine apprenticeship.
The family who were caught in the Val d'isere avalanche, admittedly on snow shoes, demonstrated quite clearly a lack of basic awareness. I see this scenario repeating itself amongst the new tourers.
"It's ok, we are just off the edge of the piste, just above the village". Potentially "just" could be the herald of many close shaves and some serious incidents.
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@stuarth, cheers. for that link , got two weeks of quarantine to get through soon will binge on the content , seriously for every case I hear about of "wallies" newbies etc I hear about the great take up of avi ed courses and guided days with aim at learning , my lad is fully booked this year and mainly with mountain travel skills and level I &2 courses , the mountains and great outdoors are risky places so more education the better , imho I think the drop off will be high but those who stick at it will add to this growing side of skiing in a positive way
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well there are loads of people who remain on the fringe of touring for decades like me. I'm prepared to walk up hill for an hour to get to something special, but I don't like touring. It is the people like me who will continue in that sort of way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Perty wrote: |
| I reckon Mr P and I will, despite limited opportunities so far. I have my eye on a few gentle areas away from the piste where we have hiked in the summer, plus going out on proper guided tours, provided they aren’t too strenuous. Getting away from crowds into the peace and quiet of the mountains is very appealing. |
I'm sure you will love it. We certainly enjoy the flexibility of having touring kit. We have done half a dozen guided 7 day tours (including the Haute Route, Silvretta, Oetztal and Lyngen, which were all fantastic) but love our DIY day trips as well. Although these are a lot more limited in extent, due to our lack of avalanche awareness training, we have done some great DIY touring in Scotland (particularly on the Cairngorm plateau) and have also managed a couple of great July tours, "on piste" at the Col De L'Iseran. I appreciate that the latter may not be everyone's cup of tea, but we had the place to ourselves in glorious sunshine and it was magical. In 2019 we also enjoyed a few days of touring in Val Thorens the week before they opened for skiing. Thin snow cover meant we stayed on piste for our descents but that did not detract at all from the experience, as we loved the solitude. And we had the bonus of the pistes having been prepared for the following week.
As you say, it's all about the peace and quiet.  We think it's also about "the journey." As a couple who love mountain walking we consider a ski tour as a great hike up, with the added bonus of skiing back down. A couple of hours up and a few minutes down is fine by us! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I can't see Mrs U ever volunteering very often for a skin but she'll be well up for a 90 minute up for a nice lunch at the top ... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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At just short of my 79th birthday, I am now enjoying totally mellow tours north of Vancouver, an hour or so up and a fun ski back down. I'm just glad I can still get out in the gorgeous winter landscape on my skis - good for the soul. Some people would say I'm making it harder for myself, as I am an unrepentant free heel skier, but I tried AT and didn't like - too restrictive
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