 Poster: A snowHead
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I am writing to inform everyone who is expecting to use their Ikon Pass at Big Sky next year that if you want to use the Lone Pine Tram you will have to buy an "Add-on" pass. The price paid for Tram access will depend on the type of product purchased. Autocharge access is expected to range between $20-$80 per day and will be priced based on factors like holidays and busy periods, similar to lift tickets. Tram Access Packs are pre-purchased at a flat rate and can be used throughout the season. There will be no discounts for different age groups.
Are you frig'n kidding me, $80. That is more than a day of skiing in Europe.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Barking up the wrong tree?
The tram is now 'extra cost' for all day lift tickets and all but one season passes. It's not just Ikon pass only!
Just because it was included in last year's pass doesn't mean it's included in next year's pass. That's always the case.
Do I like paying extra to access the tram? No. But it's not Ikon's issue. It's Big Sky changing ALL of its lift ticket's scope.
Read the fine prints. Next thing you're going to say the extra cost required for Aspen and Jackson Hole is another "Ikon bait and switch"? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Suspect that there will be limited numbers of people affected by this on this site. Even when I went to Big Sky I didn't ski the tram anyway because it's like it was designed to be be a massive bottleneck - think a Euro cable car is as big as possible only they designed it the same size as a medium gondola/funitel at 15 pax.
The Ikon indicator that non Alterra owned resorts are free to make their own calls on what is included rather than being contractually locked down is perhaps of more concern longer term - "oh your Ikon pass is valid except on a powder day" etc
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What's bait and switch? Is it US terminology? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Bergmeister, don't think so. Its when you advertise one thing thats attractive to get someone attention, bait the hook, then its oddly not available but try to sell them something else, switch.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
| What's bait and switch? Is it US terminology? |
It's when electricians go fishing.
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| abc wrote: |
Barking up the wrong tree?
The tram is now 'extra cost' for all day lift tickets and all but one season passes. It's not just Ikon pass only!
Just because it was included in last year's pass doesn't mean it's included in next year's pass. That's always the case.
Do I like paying extra to access the tram? No. But it's not Ikon's issue. It's Big Sky changing ALL of its lift ticket's scope.
Read the fine prints. Next thing you're going to say the extra cost required for Aspen and Jackson Hole is another "Ikon bait and switch"? |
When I bought my Ikon Pass for next season that extra cost wasn't mentioned, because it wasn't a thing yet. So it was bait and switch for me. Of course this all happened after I rented a condo for next season.
Agreed, not just Ikon pass, but it was announced when Big Sky announced their new season pass line up.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
| What's bait and switch? Is it US terminology? |
Advertise one thing to get people in the door and then either don't have it or claim you don't have it to cause people to spend more or buy something else since they already invested the time/money. It also applies to after you buy something and then you don't get what you were promised. In this case I bought next year's pass and then they changed the deal. On top of it I wasn't notified and found out on my own.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| skimachine wrote: |
| In this case I bought next year's pass and then they changed the deal. On top of it I wasn't notified and found out on my own. |
Did you just buy the Ikon pass?
The same change applies to all but one Big Sky pass too. Take it up with Big Sky! Not so much to do with Ikon.
Alterra doesn't even own Big Sky. Your Ikon pass gives you access to Big Sky like other Big Sky pass holders, or for that matter, day ticket purchasers too. That's not a change as far as the Ikon pass is concern. Granted, a big change for Big Sky.
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Wow! Pay more on top of already exorbitant US ski pass prices? Enough to make me cross Big Sky off my 'to do' list. Plenty more other ski places in the world...
I was actually looking at Big Sky as a possibility for when - sorry if - this covid lark ever ends. Not now though. Extra for a cable car? No thanks.
I too had never heard of 'bait and switch.' I've heard of total effing rip off and scam though...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I would not be at all surprised to see resorts introduce more restrictions on season’s passes, with additional fees to remove said restrictions, ie component pricing. A way for them to rebuild balance sheets after the last 2 seasons. I fear that the days of a season pass offering unlimited skiing, on all open lifts, from season open to close are drawing to a close.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Its been done before, Snowbird used to offer passes with or without Tram access, day tickets at least IIRC. Some North American ski areas have run a similar model for years, but use a cat instead and charge by the ride. You still ski within the resort boundary rather than true cat skiing.
With regards to Big Sky, this will be two fold, to raise revenue but also to cut down on the numbers. When we were there we waited 30 - 40 minutes for the lift, this was on a quiet non peak Monday.
As the terrain is listed as black/ double black we also saw folks going up, taking in the view - you can see the Tetons on a good day, then taking the lift back again. Second day there I waited again, but SWMBO just went off and skied elsewhere  agreeing to meet later.
Next year Big Sky was on the list as we pass by, and if the trip goes ahead will still drop in - but in probability wont be paying for the extra Tram rides.
An extra $20, isnt too bad if you are lapping the Tram all day, but for 1 or 2 rides up its not - $80 a day even at peak times is just crazy, but some will pay I'm sure they will have done research on pricing to find out whats realistically achievable.
However the worrying part, is setting the precedent - other areas could start charging an additional fee, epecially when theres no other way, or its difficult to access. Often its the more extreme terrain that is accessed via one lift.
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| Quote: |
An extra $20, isnt too bad if you are lapping the Tram all day, but for 1 or 2 rides up its not - $80 a day even at peak times is just crazy,
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The Big Sky tram is somewhat unique in that it's tiny!
There's quite a lot of terrain off the top. In excellent condition due to the lack of skier traffic no less.
One may argue they should put in a bigger cabin, or build a proper tram that holds a hundred people! But that would put a lot more skiers on some of the really nice runs that are currently stay powdery many days after the last storm. Having skied some of those (e.g. the Dictators), I'm not sure I feel strongly about a bigger tram.
But paying $80/day is a bit steep, even for peak period. On the other hand, $20/day may actually be ok. Still, it depends whether it cuts down on the crowd. If I can lap the tram with 5-10 minute wait, and given the amount of terrain available, I wouldn't hesitate to pay the $20 extra. Maybe even a bit more than that. But if it's still a 30+ minute wait, I'm not sure I can even stomach the extra $20.
The thing is, Big Sky has lots of fun terrain. So I'd be perfectly happy to ski it without bothering going to the top most days. Wouldn't mind paying the extra on just one day to lap the top, though not $80.
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You know it makes sense.
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Are you talking about the Lone Peak Tram?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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monkbeer, Yes 
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Poster: A snowHead
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My info is dated, and I am not a mechanical engineer or physicist, but I think it might be pretty
difficult to expand the tram; there's not all that much space at the top after you get off to stand
around and put skis back on, and, the last part of the ascent gets pretty close to the steep rock
face just below the terminal. Since the cable is a free run without any towers from the bottom to
the top, it seems like a larger/heavier tram might come close to hitting rock, especially on a windy day.
And it might be difficult/$$$ to install towers along the way, due to the path and steepness...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Although there's a decent amount of material available off the top of Lone Peak, the immediate access from the top is a pile of wind scoured shale that's dicey on the best of days, and isn't built for processing tons of skiers. It's a Mother Nature call, not something that can just be engineered away. This is prob the best argument to keep the lift capacity limited even though it's great skiing. Other reason to think twice about a chair up there, etc. is that it is truly slide-and-die off many lines when things get packed or icy, so you don't want maybes up there on the wrong day. It kinda all works out the way they have it set up... it's just too bad there's more people in the world than room on the top of this mountain.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have been on the The Lone Peak Tram a couple dozen times, including the first season it was open (1995/1996). What Snowshoer said is correct, space at the top is very limited. In addition, the base terminal is built on a "floating" concrete pad that has moved 25 feet since it was built.
Here is a rather long but interesting and well written article about the tram: [url=]https://bigsky.com/stories/courage-and-the-lonely-mountain[/url]
I don't know much about lift construction but I have to believe there are lifts in Europe in similar environments. It seems the lift companies keep the good stuff for Europe and let us Yanks have the old stuff. Kind of like cars.
The master plan does call for a replacement but does not specify what type of lift. It also calls for a lift to the summit on the south side of Lone Peak.
The new charges to ride the tram has to be to reduce the wait time which is often an hour, sometimes two.
I have to add that there is some fabulous skiing up there.
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