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Ski carving issues

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So many valuable advices here, I can't wait for skiing tomorrow Very Happy
@kitenski I have seen that video multiple times, but now I have a feeling that I am watching it for the first time.
And yeah, I managed to arrange instructions for tomorrow for both me and my sister. We will have 3hours with an instructor tomorrow morning. Guys, I'm so much looking forward to it, and will let you all know how it went Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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xpg94 wrote:

And yeah, I managed to arrange instructions for tomorrow for both me and my sister. We will have 3hours with an instructor tomorrow morning.

Excellent.

I would hope that after that, some of the advice you've received on here, will make more sense.

Anything that you've read on this thread that needs clarification - ask the Instructor during the lesson.....Oh, and ask where he gets his boots fitted. Toofy Grin
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Old Fartbag, Or she Cool
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MorningGory wrote:
@Old Fartbag, Or she Cool

Indeed. Embarassed
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Old Fartbag wrote:

Excellent.

I would hope that after that, some of the advice you've received on here, will make more sense.

Anything that you've read on this thread that needs clarification - ask the Instructor during the lesson.....Oh, and ask where he gets his boots fitted. Toofy Grin


@Old Fartbag I almost forgot about the boots, thanks for reminding me Mr. Green
This time, he is the instructor, a job colleague recommended this instructor, and he was the only recommendation I got so I figured let's try him out, why not Very Happy
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@xpg94, enjoy the lesson!! I really struggled to unlearn some bad habits and carve, those two drills really helped. I’d do the ankle rolls on flat cat tracks, on the watt to lifts as the slope flattens etc etc

This is my progression video fwiw


http://youtube.com/v/oNusod-6Roc
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@kitenski really nice progress! If that was in 2014, I assume that by now you are skiing like Bode Miller during his best days Mr. Green


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 25-03-21 15:39; edited 1 time in total
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My 2p worth, practice on lesser gradients first, as long as there is enough incline to keep you moving, this is ok.

Let the skis run straight, not too fast, you should have some weight on the ball of your foot and feel your shins leaning slightly on the front of the boot.
Start with your feet well apart, a little more than hip width and push your knees to the side, in the direction you want to go which will put the skis on edge, you should feel the skis "lock" as if they are on rails, no side slip. This is the hardest part of carving because you need to adjust your body balance to where the skis take you rather than adjusting the ski side slip to suit your body balance. To change direction, it should simply be a case of "flopping" your knees to the other side, leaving a continuous S line of sharp, parallel lines in the snow. As you get tuned into the way the skis turn, you can bring your legs slightly closer together

Don't be obsessed with carving every slope, the whole idea of carving is to be efficient & not lose speed in the turn and on steeper, busier slopes, it is not sensible to carve the whole slope and you need to skid turns to lose the speed.

The amount of pressure you apply to the ski and the ski radius will determine the radius of your turn.
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I first learnt to carve on Swedish green runs, you can build up a lot of speed on a gentle slope. My breakthrough lesson many years later from Claude (EOSB) was to start the turn with the ankles engaging both tips, then follow with the knees and then finally the hips, what I was doing was to start pushing my bum/hips down to try to get more angle which was holding me back.

It takes a lot of practice, Rob really knows what he is talking about. The best skier I ski with is so smooth he looks effortless, but he just accelerates away from us even on flattish sections as he gets so much rebound energy from his skis coming out of the turns (bloody ex racers Laughing ).
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Scarpa wrote:

The best skier I ski with is so smooth he looks effortless, but he just accelerates away from us even on flattish sections as he gets so much rebound energy from his skis coming out of the turns (bloody ex racers Laughing ).

I had the same experience in a lesson with Aaron Cassells in VDI (fellow Northern Irelander), when he was demonstrating how to accelerate through a carved turn. He is also an ex-racer and was skiing on the same skis, that were same length and on the same slope....and could at will, turn on the turbo boosters and accelerate off, leaving me behind. Really quite humbling.

Ex Racers have a "No Nonsense" way of skiing, that is incredibly effective, incredibly fast.......and incredibly in control (which underpinned all his instruction).
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Hello there everyone. I was skiing yesterday and today, so let me try to explain how it went.
Day 1 - Friday: I went there alone, we rescheduled with the instructor for the Saturday so I went to the easiest slope and tried to practice carving. Firstly I only tried to press with my toes and keep knees fixed, and afterwards I added just a little bit of knee movement. It is such a shame that there was no one to film me - since I had a feeling that it went great and that I managed to link carved turns. I am of course aware that my edge angle is really small but it was nice to look back and see two "tram lines" going far back to the start of my run in an S shape.

Day 2 - Saturday: We went there with the instructor but as soon as we got there the snow was already melting a lot, it was the worst day of a season for me definitely. We did couple of basic exercises with him - and most of them wedge turn balance related. But it was truly a pain in the a** to practice on such wet snow and I have a feeling that I was performing a lot better just yesterday. Too bad that the season ends like that for me, but I am still grateful to have learned as much this year.
Instructor took a look at my boots, he suggested that I don't ski in them any longer, that they are way large for me (he even gave me a hint about the shop which offers boot swap). Regarding the custom boot fitter - there is no one offering that service around right now, but I will figure something out next season.

Long story short, here is the video of my last run for this season where the slope was not that gentle (but the easier ones melted Sad ): (I still rushed turns there especially in the end, and my upper body is not as "disconnected" from the lower body as it should be. In other words, I was inclining instead of angulating )

http://youtube.com/v/V807m_5DKzg

Thanks for help you all, see you around next season Very Happy
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@xpg94, It's good to see you have made a start on "tidying up" your skiing through lessons.

That run above certainly is quite different to your first video....you are letting the skis do the turning.....and Yes, to my eye, there is not enough Angulation - and still too much weight on the U/Hill ski. I also would like to see more weight on the Turning ski (right from the top of the turn) and the skis continue to increase their edge angle through the turn, rather than passively standing there.

Good job - and lots to think about and work on, next season.
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@xpg94, good stuff that looks a lot less rushed and a definite improvement on the way towards carving!


In slushy snow having the ability to get both edges engaged really helps.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
kitenski wrote:
@xpg94, good stuff that looks a lot less rushed and a definite improvement on the way towards carving!


In slushy snow having the ability to get both edges engaged really helps.


+1 in the days of smeared, skid, call them what you like turns, hitting a pile of slush mid turn could be quite upsetting, when the skis are carving, they will simply slice through the slush, though I have occasionally hit piles of slush fast enough for it to get propelled upwards and into my face & up my nose Shocked
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@xpg94, that’s much, much better, and that now provides a foundation for developing your carving skills. I think you now need to focus on balancing more effectively on your outside ski, from the moment the turn begins. This will ensure that the outside ski is doing most of the work - as you get better at this your edge angles will gradually increase, and your angulation will become more apparent as your body does what it needs to do to stay in balance.

One important point to remember, your stance (how far you are tipping sideways, your angulation, counter, etc) all need to be in proportion to the forces you are generating. If you try to artificially create extreme angles when you do not have high forces to work with, you are going to get contrived positions which twist you out of shape. If you focus on getting good, clean grip; stay balanced mostly on the outside ski; and roll from edge to edge setting up each turn well, you will have plenty of forces to work with. This will allow you to create those large angles, and your body will naturally move in to the positions that you are keen to create. You can help shortcut the development of this by doing one-footed drills (basically do the same turns as in your last video clip, but lift your inside ski off the snow), and focus your internal feedback to the ebb and flow of those forces as you move through the turn, rather than focus on what you think your body is doing. None of this needs to be rushed, it should all happen smoothly, progressively, perhaps a bit like this:

Rob, long radius turns, slo-mo from InsideOutSkiing
https://vimeo.com/79838624
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just started practicing carving this year. I wasn't rolling my ankles over enough. Like most of said here, start on a blue. You need to get the feel of what a good carv feels like. Once you get that feeling you won't forget it. You won't do everything correctly but that feeling will help you on your journey.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd just like to thank everyone involved in this thread. Nice guy comes on asking for some advice, given good advice, good result. What the internet should be.

Also want to chip in for 20 days, doing well buddy! Enjoy.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Does anyone still learn with "driving the bus" techniques? Shown to me by an instructor mate, when on a low ish gradient you take the driver's seat (push shins against front of boots) hands out in front of you holding an imaginary steering wheel (keep your hands where you can see them) then running with skis parallel gently (a very small amount) turn the steering wheel where you want to go.

I get the kids in our friends group to do this (which they like as it's easy) and we head off down the piste in a little crocodile like line, and all making perfect gentle tram tracks with confidence.

Anybody else come across this?
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ski3 wrote:
Does anyone still learn with "driving the bus" techniques? Shown to me by an instructor mate, when on a low ish gradient you take the driver's seat (push shins against front of boots) hands out in front of you holding an imaginary steering wheel (keep your hands where you can see them) then running with skis parallel gently (a very small amount) turn the steering wheel where you want to go.

I get the kids in our friends group to do this (which they like as it's easy) and we head off down the piste in a little crocodile like line, and all making perfect gentle tram tracks with confidence.

Anybody else come across this?
Not sure about this, there's a danger that you're going to dip your inside shoulder in to the turn, encouraging excessive banking and possibly getting weight stuck on your inside ski. You're also switching focus from the important part of what's going on (your skis) to something else. Not something I'd recommend.
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rob@rar wrote:
ski3 wrote:
Does anyone still learn with "driving the bus" techniques? Shown to me by an instructor mate, when on a low ish gradient you take the driver's seat (push shins against front of boots) hands out in front of you holding an imaginary steering wheel (keep your hands where you can see them) then running with skis parallel gently (a very small amount) turn the steering wheel where you want to go.

I get the kids in our friends group to do this (which they like as it's easy) and we head off down the piste in a little crocodile like line, and all making perfect gentle tram tracks with confidence.

Anybody else come across this?
Not sure about this, there's a danger that you're going to dip your inside shoulder in to the turn, encouraging excessive banking and possibly getting weight stuck on your inside ski. You're also switching focus from the important part of what's going on (your skis) to something else. Not something I'd recommend.


Interesting. I’ve also heard the “driving the bus” technique....from a BASI II instructor, no less! I can quite see how it could ‘encourage’ dipping the inside shoulder, although on gentler slopes with less emphasis on dramatic ‘steering of the bus steering wheel’ I can see how it could help some people.
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@Cacciatore, yes that's the same for me in qualification of person that showed me.

As you summize, it's very small movement on shallow gradient by "turning" the wheel only in order of magnitude akin to 5 minutes.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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rob@rar wrote:
ski3 wrote:
Does anyone still learn with "driving the bus" techniques? Shown to me by an instructor mate, when on a low ish gradient you take the driver's seat (push shins against front of boots) hands out in front of you holding an imaginary steering wheel (keep your hands where you can see them) then running with skis parallel gently (a very small amount) turn the steering wheel where you want to go.

I get the kids in our friends group to do this (which they like as it's easy) and we head off down the piste in a little crocodile like line, and all making perfect gentle tram tracks with confidence.

Anybody else come across this?
Not sure about this, there's a danger that you're going to dip your inside shoulder in to the turn, encouraging excessive banking and possibly getting weight stuck on your inside ski. You're also switching focus from the important part of what's going on (your skis) to something else. Not something I'd recommend.


Yes, I was curious as it seems to have mild conflict perhaps with how teaching currently delivers.

Context is, very very mild slope and very small movement, so no real and significant twisting.

It seems to, with kids like wet spaghetti and rearward stance to get them more over the front with shoulders and arms more forward, but also demonstrates just how easy it is to go where they want on demand rather than less disciplined approach to fun skiing.

But then their favourite is rattling through the trees and "rat" runs where most techniques disappear.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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Hello there everyone, here I am yet again!

This April brought some snowy days here in Sarajevo, so there I got a chance to once again practice a little bit, and believe it or not, I think I have got the fundamentals of carving! Cool
What truly helped me understand better what you guys were telling me - is the Ski Analysis youtube channel on Bend Ze Knees subforum that some of you fine fellas advised me to look into. Those guys really give their best to explain the science and the forces (centripetal and centrifugal forces) that work on the body while carving. They also do analyses of different people carving (some of them only think they are carving and they are not - like I used to Laughing )

So once again I want to thank you all for the instructions.

I realized that I now need to continue practicing this to increase my edge angle - since it is pretty small- but hey, I'm carving in my first year, so there is nothing for me to be unhappy about.

Here is the video, and of course, feel free to give me your thoughts about it, I'm looking forward to that!


http://youtube.com/v/FYSXBGn1zBc
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@xpg94, much , much better (and quality work from your cameraman).

To keep developing your skills you could make turns like that, but lift your inside ski as soon as you can at the start of the turn so you are fully balanced on your outside ski.

You should also now try those turns on steeper terrain, but to ensure you manage your speed hold on to the turns for a little bit longer so you don’t accelerate down the hill too icy (which will mean your twist or skid your skis).
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What @rob@rar, said....especially the bit about holding onto the turn longer on a steep slope - Don't start the next turn until you are in total control.

As speeds build, due to the steeper slope - you will need to be more active, as described here:


http://youtube.com/v/lUp607aW36A

Great job.
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Old Fartbag, rob@rar thanks a lot!
Cant wait for the new season to try out the same with lifting the inner leg, and trying it out on steeper terrain while holding onto the turn (at least trying to Very Happy )
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On a flat track or area, I try to move and accelerate from stationary by just rolling ankles/knees/hips from side to side and using almost static pressure from body weight on skis. The release of pressure results in motion and acceleration. Almost like ice skating, particularly when trying to go backwards.
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Great improvement Very Happy

Without wishing to sound at all negative (I’m sure there are many, many skiers who believe they can ski well, after years of doing so, who aren’t really at your level), your right turns look at little more passive to me. We all have a weaker turning side and my right turns (requiring pressuring the left, downhill leg) are also weaker.

Yesterday (sadly the last of the season), I did a few drills focusing on longer right turns, getting better left leg extension and better ‘C’ or banana shape. Felt good and more stable. With suitably wide (and very quiet) pistes, it was beneficial to make much wider turns and get the feel for a more dynamic (less passive, more ‘assertive’) posture.

Here’s to next season and, again, really, really well done!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@xpg94, do remember that just because you can't ski till next season doesn't mean you can't train for next season. Look up some ski specific exercises and do them, you will be surprised at how ski fitness will help you.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW5PKlIRIuEclFc190Lq6EFGWBhk6113U I like and the technical videos are worth watching as well. https://www.youtube.com/c/SIAAustria/playlists
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@Cacciatore don't worry man, thanks for the objection Wink
@pieman666 I go to the gym anyway, so I may add those drills while doing my leg day. SIAAustria technical videos are awesome, I've seen many of them already, but each time I watch them - I learn something new.
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