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Vallee Blanche (studid question, great answers)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello Snowheads, I have read mixed reviews on whether a guide is needed for safe passage down the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix. The group i am travelling ( and myself) are very competent piste basher with very little experiance off-piste. What are your thoughts on the matter. CHEERS


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 16-02-06 22:05; edited 1 time in total
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rburch, people die on Mont Blanc, if you believe your skills are enough to find the best route for your level of skiing and know where the crevasses are likelty to be found, then you go for it. Your's is a dumb question.
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rburch wrote:
Hello Snowheads, I have read mixed reviews on whether a guide is needed for safe passage down the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix. The group i am travelling ( and myself) are very competent piste basher with very little experiance off-piste. What are your thoughts on the matter. CHEERS


Echoing what David says, your group needs a guide, no ifs or buts.
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Sorry about my dumb question, i just was not sure. I am travelling in a couple of weeks time, should i book a guide now or can it wait until i am out there. Again sorry for the stupid, dangerous question.
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rburch, For someone with
Quote:

very little experiance off-piste
I thougt it was a sensible question. Better off asking than your group trying to get mobile phone reception from the bottom of a crevasse.

I wouldnt tackle that area (but then I have even less experience than you). Why not try something a little less challenging, or at least do it on your last day wink
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
rburch, For someone with
Quote:

very little experiance off-piste
I thougt it was a sensible question. Better off asking than your group trying to get mobile phone reception from the bottom of a crevasse.


It was an extremely sensible question. People should absolutely not be discouraged from asking for advice like this.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
ise,it was a dumb question which received a sensible answer. No discouragement there.
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ise wrote:
It was an extremely sensible question. People should absolutely not be discouraged from asking for advice like this.


Sorry if I sounded abrupt but as Ian says your question was good.

Although people describe the VB as a "red" level run (or even blue level run if they are bragging) and while that is true in pure skiing terms the problem for your group would be what would happen if one of you fell into a crevasse or if you had some other difficulty - such as going off route maybe by following tracks. There are a number of dangers: the arete from the Aiguille du Midi station, crevasses particuarly above the Requins and Séracs. Avalanche risk isn't high on the normal route.

I would suggest that most people on SH would need a guide if they want to be relatively safe unless they have good alpine climbing skills.
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Thanks, I will definatly being hiring a guide for safety and the fact that they will know the best routes down the vallee. Its a little price to pay for a great experience. Thank Guys
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rburch wrote:
Thanks, I will definatly being hiring a guide for safety and the fact that they will know the best routes down the vallee. Its a little price to pay for a great experience. Thank Guys


Maybe some SH's who have been down the VB recently can suggest some guides for you?
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I feel like an absolute idiot posting the original post (i wish i could delete it). Having now done some research i fully agree with David.
A GUIDE IS ESSENTIAL UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR ALL OFF_PISTE.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
rburch,

I have heard alot dumber questions on here, and sometimes ask dumb questions. Please don't be discouraged to ask anymore wink
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rburch, In the right hand column of your pst is a pair of scissors cutting paper. You can edit your post that way. Please dont though because the thread is very usefull as it is.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rburch, I've always used the Bureau des Guides, their offices are in the rue de Moulins near to the Tourist Office. SMALLZOOKEEPER is a Cham resident, he would probably know of an independent guide.
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I've heard several times that a good intermediate skier can ski the Vallee Blanche with a qualified guide. But I am an absolute nightmare off-piste even though I can ski most pistes very comfortably. Therefore, what level of off piste experience would you recommend someone has before attempting something like the Vallee Blanche. And would the amount of powder on the route at the time be a deciding factor? I sort of assumed the huge numbers of people skiing it soon track out all of the powder? Blush
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Obsessed_intermediate, Both times I skied it there was little to no powder, it was well tracked out. Fantastic day out, I have pictures of it on my office wall.

The icy arete from the Aiguille du Midi station will get you in the mood pretty quickly and IMHO presented more danger than the ski down did.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What is the IMHO?
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rburch,

In My Humble ( and it is ) Opinion.
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IMHO means In My Honest Opinion IMHO
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rburch, Time for me to eat humble pie. Embarassed
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rburch wrote:
I feel like an absolute idiot posting the original post (i wish i could delete it). Having now done some research i fully agree with David.
A GUIDE IS ESSENTIAL UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR ALL OFF_PISTE.


Your final statement is true in Europe, but not in North America, where there are large swathes of off-piste terrain which are safely accessible without the need for a guide.
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
rburch, Time for me to eat humble pie. Embarassed
Any excuse for a snack Toofy Grin
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Frosty the Snowman,

Youv've got me again. I had no idea what the scissors were for Embarassed
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johnboy, Laughing Laughing How is the "linking" coming along?. There is an easy way if you are struggling
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The thing about this high level mountain route is that it will go over/through a moving glacier and the paths/routes down will change over the seasons. For the other variations up there they may change between snowfalls. You will be required to ski and stop as the guide dictates at the top of the route. He will be looking for crevasses and will want/require/demand that you can stop above him and ski safe. The skiing itself on the classic variation which is what most people do is not really a problem and the abilty to side-slip in control is your best technique. So its not the skiing that will be an issue, a low intermedaite could ski it, it is what could happen in less than perfect conditions. Even cramp is an issue as it likely to be a 4 trip or so and the only way is to keep going down.

The arrete is the first obsticle and you may be roped here, I've seen people freeze here and it sets the tone. After that the route is across a huge flat expanse looking toward Italy. The route then ducks down a path which will normally be well bashed and you will be amongst the crevasses and seracs and amazing scenery. The sheer scale is quite hunbling but you may well be amongst a few groups doing the same thing. The path leads out to the requiem hut where you can stop and eat/drink. It then drops down onto the mer de glace and it is a shcuss/pole until the glacier drops over a slight ridge. You will need to route find through here before you come out at the bottom of a lift upto the train. If you iare nterested and have the time, have alook left for groups which will be doing the other variation of the route lime Envers du plan and Gros Rognon etc. If you see people on your right they will probably be coming down fron the Grand Montet and likley the Pas de Cherve. All in all an excellent day out in good conditions and a simply must do...!!!

To book this keep an eye on the weather, pick a nice day and get down the guides office early in your trip to see what they are planning. In good conditions they will probably be running this trip daily. For your first trip don't use anybody not from the guides office IMO.

Take a snack and a drink as its a long way to the hut, take a camera and you will likely get very hot so a pack is good for stashing things..!!
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David@traxvax, Didn't the Bureau de Guides get wiped out in the recent fire?
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It sound excellent, i can definatly see why a guide is needed. I can't wait, hopefully the Alps will recieve a well deserved dump of snow.
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If you are lucky and the snow is good enough it is possible to ski on down to Chamonix which involves (if my memory serves me) a bit of a climb followed by crossing the railway tracks and then going down a narrow zig-zag path through the woods.

This is quite a challenge as you are already knackered (if a bit unfit like me) and the path has to be followed or you crash over the edge into the trees. You eventually come out down a little piste whose name escapes me and tumble onto the road in the valley.

We did the VB on a sunny day, the snow was not powdery or fresh and was well battered by previous skiers. It was quite icy and difficult going most of the way down. I think a 'low intermediate' would really have struggled in those conditions. It may be comparable to a red run but it can be a very long, icy and tiring red run if the conditions are poor.

The guide was excellent and it was a cracking days skiing. I would recommend the trip to any reasonable skier (with a Guide) - but do not take it lightly.

Unfortunately it was about 5 years ago and I can't remember the Guide's name but we arranged it by phoning the Bureau Des Guides a couple of days before.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
halfhand, I think it was the "Independent" Bureau des Guides that was wiped out, not the "main" one.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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David Murdoch, stand corrected ta!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Try Chamex.com. No connection - just booked with them (1st March) weather permitting. 9.00 for 9.30 start. 60 euros plus aguille lift pass. Martina very helpful.
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I would never attempt the VB without a guide. In theory on a busy day you could follow the other groups. In spring time you often have to stop and queue to get through one or two of the narrow bits because there are so many people out there. In practise you should of course never follow another group. Bad etiqutte for a start and also they may take a variation which is more difficult than you were expecting. The real danger is if the weather closes in which could quite well happen as it takes a time to get down. A whiteout on a glacier without a guide is not a good place to be.

The skiing as has been said is lowish intermediate. The guide is essential for route finding as even the standard route is not as well defined as you might expect.

You go primarily for the high mountain experience rather than the challenge of the skiing. The scenery is stunning with the different colours amongst the glaciers and seracs particularly when the weather is totally clear. Its an absolutely fantastic trip for skiers who would otherwise never get into back mountain territory.

The final path down to Chamonix is not as difficult as an earlier poster seemed to suggest. It is just a very long zig zag path through the woods. If you are tired at the point you reach the path you can easily take the train down instead and the guide will obviously give you best advice as to what you should do. The train is often the best option anyway as the path does not always get complete snow cover.

Go for it.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Unless you ARE a guide, get a guide. End of.

In terms of whether your skill level is up to it -

I can happily ski steep blacks with good snow cover, bumpy reds, and icy blues. I can link about 5 turns off-piste before falling over. Which ain't much of a description, but it'll do.

Last season I was in Megeve and thinking about skiing Mt Blanc. A lot of punters told me I could cope. A qualified guide took one look at me skiing and told me that under normal circumstances I "might" cope with the Mt Blanc run. But there was no way in hell he was going to take me because I wouldn't have coped with the (then) very icy conditions.

Moral of the story - ask a guide. They're trained to know. You're not.

Obviously does not apply to those who are trained to know. Y'know?
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I reckon you should have a go yourselves, flip-flops and a towel are all the equipment needs. I also suggest doing it at night, you can see less and it's far colder. Little Angel
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Some friends who have an apartment in Les Houches claim that you CAN do the Vallee Blanche at night if there is a full moon (with a guide naturally).

Anybody done it?
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Some friends who have an apartment in Les Houches claim that you CAN do the Vallee Blanche at night if there is a full moon (with a guide naturally).

Anybody done it?
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Trenmold, Yep, although not in flip-flops. Little Angel
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I guess i deserve this, it was a completly naff question.
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At least you asked, I wouldn't worry about it at all, some people have done the run, some haven't. Some people are equipped to do it without a guide, some aren't. You don't know the area so the sensible thing is to ask. It wasn't that bad a question
at all. But sometmes people get a bit bored on here, so bear with them, the info here is generally excellent and wide-ranging. They are all going crazy because they're still here and its dumping there... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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rburch, if you hadn't asked, you might have done it anyway, and regretted it.
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