 Poster: A snowHead
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Taking my fiancée skiing for the first time from 2-9th April and unsure where to book. Looking for somewhere that will provide a great first ski holiday experience for her and after a decent standard of hotel.
Whilst I'm comfortable on the easier blacks, my fiancé has only just completed ski lessons. I've only ever been to Skiwelt (Söll/Scheffau) & Kitzbuhel so have limited knowledge on others.
Ones I've been looking at:
Obergurgl/Hochgurgl (can bus to Solden included in lift pass)
Val D'Isere
La Plagne
Val Thorens
Would really appreciate some pointers!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 6-01-22 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Welcome to Snowheads, @MarcFSki,  . If your fiancée has done lessons at an indoor snow centre it would be good for her to have some lessons on real snow - very different, especially if you are unlucky and hit a day with less-than-perfect conditions. Perhaps try to find a hotel close to a variety of easy slopes. Location within the resort is probably more important than choice of resort. At that time of year a lot depends on aspect of slopes - you need a sunny one in the morning, to soften up the snow a bit, then a shadier one in the afternoon. Being relaxed, not trying to get too many hours skiing in the day, being conservative in your choice of slopes to ski with her and sorting out some lessons with a good ski school will probably be the key to a successful first ski holiday. Probably any of those resorts would be suitable - I don't know any of them well and have never skied in Hochgurgl, but would add Tignes (Val Claret) to the list, because of the easy access to high altitude skiing. In Val d'Isere she would probably want to download in a lift - a good idea sometimes even for good skiers. Once you have decided on a hotel, you'll be able to get good advice here about local conditions at that time of year.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Late afternoon skiing in Obergurgl can be slushy but a 2 hour lesson in the morning, spot of lunch at the Nederhutte or at David's Hutte (bottom of Steinmanbahn lift) and then a couple of hours on the blues at Steinmanbahn would probably be enough for a beginner.
if you do your apres at the Nederhutte it's an easy cruise back to the village and they usually re-piste it for the post apres stragglers to reduce accidents.
Consider lessons for your fiancee in Hochgurgl too because if you're skiing over in Hochgurgl whilst she is in lessons it can mean you have to cover ground quite quickly to get back to meet for lunch.
For Obergurgl higher end hotels - The Gotthard-Zeit has a lovely outdoor spa & piste side pool which gets the afternoon sun and is a lovely place to while away an afternoon. The Edelweiss is lovely too and has easier access to town for the evening.
Only eaten at the Riml in Hochgurgl but it has a great location for accessing lots of cruisy blues above Hochgurgl and it looked stunning when we had a mooch about there, we have lunch there a couple of times during the week usually. Stopped for coffee a few times at the Top Hotel which is also very nice and has a more traditional vibe if that's your thing.
Nightlife in Ober/Hoch tends to be based in the hotels, the Nederhutte and the Umbrella bar outside the Edelweiss tend to be the the most popular but go quiet quickly after the lifts close.
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What @pam w says. As pretty much always 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Saas Fee would be ideal. The height means that good snow is guaranteed, the views are spectacular, and plenty to quality hotel options. If your fiancee can manage blue slopes she will be able to access the highest of the skiing and get a true sense of high alpine environment. And the village itself is pretty, and car free.
I second the suggestion of ski lessons in the morning, it sounds to me like you would both benefit from that.
Happy to give more advice on Sass Fee itself, we have skied there in the spring for decades.
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Mayrhofen? Although check what week Snowbombing is on. We went there one year week after snowbombing one April.
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Would there be nice white resort-level snow in Mayrhofen? This is pretty important for a first ski holiday.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Would there be nice white resort-level snow in Mayrhofen? This is pretty important for a first ski holiday. |
Is it? In April the town was hot. The slopes up above great. All the nursery slopes are all up nice and high, which is more important surely?
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Probably VT as it's bowl skiing, so even if you both go off to do your own thing, it easy to arrange a meet up.
Obviously not going to get the village vibe & charm like Austria though.
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Well, it depends. Being lodged down in a valley with piles of blackened snow at the edge of the road and mud everywhere isn't ideal for a first experience. Nor is having to trek up in a lift, with unfamiliar gear, possibly after having to queue, before I can do any skiing. Or to do the reverse, when I've had enough skiing, before I can have a soak in the bath or go to the spa. Your family are keen skiers, but for an adult beginner on a first holiday, the balance of priorities is likely to be different.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks very much so far for the advice. I do think some morning lessons for the first 1-3 days would be sensible for her, and I may go for one too.
Obergurgl looks great with lots of easier slopes and can ski in-out, though I worry it'll be a bit too quiet in the evening. However many of the blues seem to be narrow tracks which isn't too great. I had picked out Hotel Riml at Hochgurgl as coming in at £1k cheaper than Alpen-Wellness Resort Hochfirst at Obergurgl. Gives us the option of a pool/sauna at the end of the day.
Val Thorens accommodation doesn't seem the same standard, though there is more going on.
I had seen Club Med Val Thorens Sensations but aware that's a different concept entirely with some entertainment in the evening. Liked that my fiancee could go for lessons and I join a guide for the first couple days, but no pool/sauna sadly so rules that out.
Slightly limited in the resorts as want to go for a package holiday from Scotland and limited to Crystal Ski unless anyone else knows another company I can look at.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I once booked Obergurgl for a first hol with my girlfriend of the time. She had not skied since a school trip about 15 years previously. My thinking was, if she didn't like it there (in terms of ambience etc) she wouldn't like it anywhere.
With the lovely village, skiing, mountain huts, hot chocolate, apres ski curling and Gluhwein and a ski day in Soelden, she absolutely loved it - and 30 years later, Mrs MA and I have skied all over the world together. So Obergurgl comes highly recommended as a winner in my case
As others have mentioned, Saas Fee is lovely too and would also fit the bill.
Kuhtai would be another possibility as it is at about 2000m, so will undoubtedly be snow covered. The village is small, compact and quite pleasant - athough the vertical drop of the ski area is not the biggest.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Well, it depends. Being lodged down in a valley with piles of blackened snow at the edge of the road and mud everywhere isn't ideal for a first experience. Nor is having to trek up in a lift, with unfamiliar gear, possibly after having to queue, before I can do any skiing. Or to do the reverse, when I've had enough skiing, before I can have a soak in the bath or go to the spa. Your family are keen skiers, but for an adult beginner on a first holiday, the balance of priorities is likely to be different. |
This is actually why I think it is perfect for them. When we got to the bottom of lift, it was about 20 degree and t-shirt weather. Very lovey evenings. No blackened snow.
Also as long as avoid snowbombing week REALLY quiet. There are also huge numbers of lockers at top of Penkenbahn so app gear can be left there (and showers if you are really brave…. Frosted glass doors!).
This was us on a walk after skiing all day
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You know it makes sense.
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I've been to Ischgl around the 1st/2nd of April and the conditions were really good.
There are loads of blues in the Idalp area.
Easy to download on a gondola at the end of the day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| Mayrhofen? Although check what week Snowbombing is on. We went there one year week after snowbombing one April. |
Thanks, as it happens our dates clash with Snowbombing so it's not an option but will consider in the future!
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Poster: A snowHead
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I would not recommend Obergurgl or your purposes, if your fiancée is still a beginner, as there is no proper beginners area and the main blue (6) back to the village can be a bit tricky. (Also second ol smokey's points)
In Austria Ischgl is probably your best bet. Most of the skiing is above 2000m, and a lot is centred around the Idalp area at 2300m. This is also where the beginners area is (and ski school meeting points), and there are many gentle blues served by both drag and short chair lifts. It really is a great setup and easy for you to go and explore many different parts of the area and be back to meet your fiancée within in a 2h window.
There are also some very nice hotels in Ischgl that should be quite reasonably priced at this time of year.
We visited in early April 2019, when my wife was effectively a complete beginner. She made huge progress there in the space of four days and really enjoyed the trip. Conditions were great, though we were lucky enough to have a big snow dump on our first day and sunshine thereafter.
In terms of hotels, we stayed in Hotel Sonne with half board, which we would highly recommend.
Main disadvantage for Ischgl compared to the French resorts is that you stay in the valley, which isn't quite as atmospheric as staying high up the mountain as in most French resorts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Looking for somewhere that will provide a great first ski holiday experience for her and after a decent standard of hotel.
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What do you mean by "a decent standard of hotel"
For a first ski holiday I would head high to a purpose built resort where the skiing is convenient - no getting ski busses, no long treks to the snow or long queues waiting for a gondola and certainly no driving up to the resort. Make it easy.
If you want a very expensive hotel then the Taj i Mah in Arc 2000 fits the bill perfectly. Arc 2000 has a good beginners area and some more challenging skiing for you. Otherwise splash out and go Club Med
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@johnE 4/5 star modern hotel with a pool/sauna I reckon.
And you've hit the nail on the head, convenient skiing and easy access to snowsure wide beginner slopes
I guess shortlist so far is:
Hotel Riml, Hochgurgl
Alpen-Wellness Resort Hochfirst, Obergurgl
The Crystal, Obergurgl
Elizabeth Arthotel, Ischgl
Bergland Hotel, Solden
Taj i Mah, Les Arcs
Club Med Val Thorens Sensations, Val Thorens
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@MarcFSki
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I had seen Club Med Val Thorens Sensations but aware that's a different concept entirely
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It might be worth looking at other Club Med's eg La Rosiere or Peissey-Vallandry (Les Arcs)
Both of those resorts should I think be high enough for start of April, have a pool/spa and have flights from Glasgow!
PS not been to the CM in La Rosiere but I have to the one in Peissey-vallandy and it's great (returning the start of March -cross fingers)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
PS not been to the CM in La Rosiere
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There was an advertising piece about it in the Sunday Times a couple weeks ago, but to me La Rosiere is too south facing for April (though I have skied there in April). There is a hideous Club Med in Arc 1600 that offers lesson from the front door. However Arc1600 is not somewhere I'd take an absolute beginner
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I loved Val d'Isere as a beginner/improver. There's a great bowl of greens on top of Bellevarde or up Solaise there is the Madeleine area and some blues around it to progress onto. And as mentioned above, both are easy to download by gondola for beginners. Also great skiing for you while she's in a lesson. And no shortage of lux hotels - we stayed in Christiania a couple of times but I rather fancied the look of Barmes de l'Ours or Le Blizzard if you have a chunky budget!! Downsides: price and long transfer I guess, also school holidays for English skiers, and Fr (I think).
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Thu 6-01-22 21:59; edited 1 time in total
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
PS not been to the CM in La Rosiere
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There was an advertising piece about it in the Sunday Times a couple weeks ago, but to me La Rosiere is too south facing for April (though I have skied there in April). There is a hideous Club Med in Arc 1600 that offers lesson from the front door. However Arc1600 is not somewhere I'd take an absolute beginner |
Indeed, the Les Arc Panorama Club Med has its own nursery slopes with two magic carpets. But what progression looks like after that is not so clear. Might not be much to look at from the outside, but inside looking out appears to be a different story (Booked to go there the week of April 10th)
Haven't been to VT myself, but the beginner area there looks quite good and central.
https://valthorensguide.com/beginners-area.html
Hotel Pashmina Le Refuge was a hotel we considered some time ago, not too far from the ski school meeting area by the looks of it.
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@MarcFSki, "Taj i Mah, Les Arcs" is walk out onto snow easy, high altitude too and good as snow sure amongst the other high altitude areas listed.
Great self contained bowl with ideal learning slopes immediately around the hotel and extended for many kms. Really good chair and gondola access, cabin return from peak (fabulous view and high mountain location for first timer) to allow access and get a real feel for being in extensive alpine terrain, it's the photos from there that my family show most to others and give a real sense of being there.
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| MarcFSki wrote: |
Val Thorens accommodation doesn't seem the same standard, though there is more going on.
I |
There are lots of 5 star hotels in VT, lots of brand new ones too. The Koh I Nor Hotel is supposed to be very impressive - with 2 pools, 800m2 spa, panoramic terrace, and 3 gourmet restaurants.
https://www.seevalthorens.com/hotels/luxury/
Personally I love Val Thorens in April - and I went when I was in a beginner. Great slopes, and the weather should be kind. Sitting outside in the sun, looking at those beautiful snowy mountains - my idea of heaven.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We've stayed a couple of times in the Riml in Hochgurgl about 5 years ago. Lovely hotel, amazing communal areas, rooms not quite as nice IMO (at least back then). Excellent wellness area.
A few things to be aware of:
Hochgurgl feels a long way from Obergurgl itself. As far as I know, there are no evening buses between Hoch- and Obergurgl (not sure there are daytime buses either tbh, I think you can get a bus from Obergurgl to the bottom of the Hochgurglbahn lift and take it up if it's still running). Not sure if the hotel has a minibus doing runs to the village.
Other than the Riml and a handful of other hotels, there's not much in Hochgurgl - one small ski hut from memory, so it's either surmount the transport difficulties or drink in the 2 bars in the Riml or the other hotels.
The dinner service starts quite late and takes quite a bit of time (again from memory, 5 courses), so that somewhat eats into party time... absolutely lovely food though
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| MarcFSki wrote: |
Elizabeth Arthotel, Ischgl
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That gets my vote
Very good late season resort, pretty village, and by then all the stag parties will have been and gone
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Altapura in VT is also very nice.
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You know it makes sense.
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| MarcFSki wrote: |
Slightly limited in the resorts as want to go for a package holiday from Scotland and limited to Crystal Ski unless anyone else knows another company I can look at. |
Why limited to Crystal?
But if you look at Val D'Isere then she could get lessons from Steve Angus (See the Snow Reports forum; The view from Val D'Isere thread) 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you are going on hotel reviews here (or elsewhere) do check that if you go on a package you will have access to the same meals. That was not the case when we were moved by Inghams at the very last minute (i.e when we arrived), from a catered chalet evening meal basis to the adjoining hotel, in Alpbach - we were given a much inferior range of food than their normal guests and confined to a table in a murky corner of the dining room (though not so far from the other guests that we couldn't see how much nicer their food was).
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| If you are going on hotel reviews here (or elsewhere) do check that if you go on a package you will have access to the same meals. That was not the case when we were moved by Inghams at the very last minute (i.e when we arrived), from a catered chalet evening meal basis to the adjoining hotel, in Alpbach - we were given a much inferior range of food than their normal guests and confined to a table in a murky corner of the dining room (though not so far from the other guests that we couldn't see how much nicer their food was). |
@pam w, sounds dreadful! That's certainly not the case with the Riml, went once with Crystal and once independently, same high standard both times.
Regarding the Altapura in VT, we were upgraded there by Crystal as it was half term and our booked bog standard hotel had not completed renovations. Heck of an upgrade! The rep made us swear to not say anything to those still staying in the booked accommodation
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Regarding the Altapura in VT, we were upgraded there by Crystal
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Nice result, @DidierCouch. My experience was a long time ago - we were a big family group of 13 and we had a great time anyway, of course, but the food in that hotel was by far the worst I've had anywhere - and we were used to cheap chalets, with often inexperienced youngsters who made a good fist of a challenging job. There was a discussion on SHs last year about people not being offered the full menu at a swish hotel - can't remember the details, but it's always worth checking.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| MarcFSki wrote: |
Taking my fiancée skiing for the first time from 2-9th April and unsure where to book. Looking for somewhere that will provide a great first ski holiday experience for her and after a decent standard of hotel.
Whilst I'm comfortable on the easier blacks, my fiancé has only just completed ski lessons. I've only ever been to Skiwelt (Söll/Scheffau) & Kitzbuhel so have limited knowledge on others.
Ones I've been looking at:
Obergurgl/Hochgurgl (can bus to Solden included in lift pass)
Val D'Isere
La Plagne
Val Thorens
Would really appreciate some pointers! |
Early April Obergurgl is one of the best choices. Snow should still be ok as high and mostly west facing. Solden faces mostly east so won’t be as good but on the same pass anyway and bus only 20 mins (included)
Funnily enough I’m doing Obergurgl April 2nd to 10th
Excellent for beginners too.
If you can afford it I’d go somewhere like that. Other Austrian resorts could be quite patchy by then. Also learning is hard work - can be very warm on beginners slopes in soft snow in April.
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@DidierCouch, I think for some sort of village atmosphere Obergurgl would be better than Hochgurgl. There are daytime buses between the two - OH used to take them sometimes to meet up at lunch; at Riml sometimes (SCGB favourite)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Would there be nice white resort-level snow in Mayrhofen? This is pretty important for a first ski holiday. |
I'd say very unlikely; went to Mayrhofen early March 3 years ago, no snow anywhere near resort level - one of the least likely to have it as very low
For Austria, best chance of resort level snow is to go to the highest resort - which ignoring the odd glacier is Obergurgl/Hochgurgl, and out of the two Obergurgl is the more typically Austrian (though not that typical as it's very quiet in the evenings and is mostly 4 star and 5 star hotels)
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| MarcFSki wrote: |
@johnE 4/5 star modern hotel with a pool/sauna I reckon.
And you've hit the nail on the head, convenient skiing and easy access to snowsure wide beginner slopes
I guess shortlist so far is:
Hotel Riml, Hochgurgl
Alpen-Wellness Resort Hochfirst, Obergurgl
The Crystal, Obergurgl
Elizabeth Arthotel, Ischgl
Bergland Hotel, Solden
Taj i Mah, Les Arcs
Club Med Val Thorens Sensations, Val Thorens |
Wow - the Hochfirst in Obergurgl is very expensive (I think it's actually the only 5 star there, there are lots of 4 star with an S suffix whatever than means). Lucky to get a good price on a single on my first visit, but way too expensive for me now. If you can afford it, I recommend it. Also right on the slopes, T bar is just 50m or so out the back. Some lessons take place there, but most are at the other end of the village (not that far, and you can ski round in a big loop involving the Festkogel and Blue 5), so maybe the Edelweiss and Gurgl is a better bet. Two gondolas within about 20m of the back door! Crystal is the same end as Hochfirst so would need some skiing or walking to the lessons.
As for Ischgl compared with Obergurgl; more skiing, and the skiing is a fair bit harder. There's not much blue stuff there, but excellent for reds. Obergurgl doesn't really have any serious blacks (apart from 100m from the top of the Mountain Star which is seriously steep and black 8 in Obergurgl is fairly steep). Ischgl does have some serious and some not quite so serious blacks. Ischgl holds its snow well as most of the skiing is high and facing west. Resort runs are only for the end of the day, and it's a gondola every morning. A carefully chosen hotel and you may be able to just about ski back as there are a lot of ways in to the village - was Ok for that in March 2020, but not sure about April
I'd recommend Obergurgl (small, quiet, with smart hotels), or Ischgl (larger, glitzy, not so quiet, with smart hotels) over Solden as a place to stay. I don't really like Solden - have only driven through but it's brash and a bit ugly. And there will be no lasting resort level snow in April (rarely is in March when I usually go to Obergurgl)
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| buchanan101 wrote: |
| there are lots of 4 star with an S suffix whatever than means |
"Superior
In all star classes (1 - 5*) there is an additional quality mark - "Superior".
The "S" in each of the star classes denotes "Superior", "service", "subjective perception" and "soft criteria" and defines a clear "extra" in service provision and quality. In order to achieve this addition, for 3*Superior and
4*Superior as well as 5* and 5*Superior a positive inspection of the service quality according to the respective submitted Quality Report is necessary."
"The Superior grades are quality and marketing labels for top establishments in their respective categories and offer a high degree of service. Superior grades are not star categories in themselves."
https://www.wko.at/site/hotelsterne/Procedure-Austrian-Hotel-Classification-2020---2025..pdf
So stars for the facilities and the S for the service/food, I think
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With the new lift at Obergurgl for this year I think you can download back to the village if Blue 6 is too tricky to start with.
The main issue with blue 6 is slushy bumps in the warm afternoon sun and it gets busy as everyone heads home.
My missus was a very nervous intermediate the first year we went here - after a couple of lessons she was fine skiing every blue in Ober & Hoch.
We now go every year - usually late March
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Are you tied into that week? If you can go in the last two weeks of March you will find the slopes less crowded than 1st week of April and prices cheaper - accommodation prices will be higher in the first week of April as it is the main UK Easter school holiday week and sometimes a week that is popular with Belgians and the Dutch too. Lots of people will have postponed holidays from the past two years for that week so it could be busier than usual. (it is still a better option than half term though)
If you are wanting hotel accommodation I'd suggest looking at Club Med (all inclusive). There is a new Club Med hotel in La Rosiere which is well located and the resort is ideal for beginners but also has some more challenging runs in the Mont Valaisan area (and over on the Italian side of the ski area). You could also look at Hotel Taj i Mah in Arc 2000 or Hotel St Charles in Val Cenis. Ski collection have some nice properties in Val Thorens and that is very snow sure but if you go in the latter part of March you would not have to go that high.
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Location wise in Obergurgl Edelweiss & Gurgl would probably be best. Ski room opens up onto Rosskarbahn and Hohe Mut Bahn entrances as well as the main ski school meeting point. (though I think the beginners then walk to Mahdstuhllift from there)
At Hochgurgl hotel Riml is right next to the beginners lift. Whilst @buchanan101 has pointed out that there is more going on in Obergurgl, Hochgurgl does have some advantages, such as a higher beginners area, better views and more of an "on mountain" feel compared to Obergurgl's "valley" feel. It also has the toboggan run which could be of interest.
Overall, I still think Ischgl may be the better choice tough for a few reasons:
- Beginners area at Idalp is central to Ski area and at 2300m with a NW aspect it should hold snow well and not get too slushy
- The beginners area is also very mellow and has a gradual progression of lifts: first magic carpet, then button lift, then short chair lift, then medium chair lift. All served by wide and easy blue pistes. (https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/ischglsamnaun-silvretta-arena/test-result/beginners/)
- the central location allows you to go and explore quite a bit of the resort whilst still being able to return within the 2h ski school lesson time to meet your fiancée for lunch (this can be quite tricky in some resorts)
- You take the gondola (Fimbabahn - small 8 person gondola right next to the Elizabeth Arthotel) up together in the morning which is nice and will give more a holiday together feeling than just dropping your fiancée off at ski school. The ride is also quite scenic as you cross a small canyon with a river and a waterfall.
One thing you should also consider is what activities other than skiing are on offer in each resort and what might be of interest to you and your fiancee. Things like tobogganing, snow-shoeing, zip-lines, etc. The French mega-resorts probably have more to offer in that aspect so definitely worth also considering. (I remember staying in La Plagne and seeing night Ski-do tours up the mountain, which looked like loads of fun)
Though the primary concern should be to make sure your fiancée has a great time so hat he/she will want to go skiing again, and I think this makes the quality of the beginners area and easy access to it the most important aspect.
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FAQ
