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Beginner Quiver out of control

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hey Snowheads, I've made a few posts on here before and found the insight returned to be very helpful. I type this post after having a not so great night on a local mountain. A few days prior to this I had very high confidence and was skiing faster than I had before with more confidence. The other night, the snow was like mashed potatoes and I feel like I have taken a step backward. My k2 Disruption 76x at 170cm were a bit much to handle for me.

Please evaluate my quiver if you would. I am male, 6 feet tall and about 290lbs. I would call myself a progressing beginner still trying to learn how to edge the skis. I can make parallel turns and hockey stop in both directions. I am in the backseat a lot and really focus on getting into the front of my boots and leaning down the fall line. My thighs are sore when I ski.

Here is my quiver:

Head Rev 70 in 170cm
Blizzard Brahma 83 in 173cm (I can't really ski these)
K2 Konic Rx in 163cm
Salomon Spaceframe 55 Scramblers in 165cm (haven't skied them yet)

BRAND NEW:
2021 K2 Disruption 76X 170cm (been skiing them a few times and not sure about them yet)
2021 Atomic Vantage 79TI 171cm (new haven't skied and kind of scared of them)

I guess my ultimate question is, given my height and ability, am I on the right track with the 170cm? I get the feeling that I want to stay on the 163cm K2s but I don't want them to hold me up from progressing. Yes, I am going to take several lessons early next ski season. There is so much conflicting info on the web about ski size.

Thanks in advance .
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
All the skis in the world won't make you a better skier if you're technique isn't good. Lessons will. Now they might cost more than skis but the longer you leave it, the more it'll cost in the end to eradicate the faults that you have.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
My 2p - if you're still a beginner, why have you got so many skis!!!

Pick 1 pair and sell the rest until you can appreciate and use the difference. I've got 25-30 weeks skiing and hire a pair of slalom skis which do everything I need (I don't do off-piste snowHead ).
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Find an instructor who is short of skis. Offer them all bar one of your pairs of skis in exchange for lessons.

Are you planning to remain the same weight? (sorry, hard to say that without it sounding rude, which isn't the intent!) I don't know any near-300lb skiers, but I can imagine that isn't making it any easier for you, and might have a material impact on what is the eventual "best" pair of skis. 163 isn't a lot of ski to try and slow down/change the direction of 290lb accelerating downhill - it's about the same length of ski that my wife and son (each c. 100lb) use.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm going to ignore how many skis you have and the best ski length as that's a whole separate problem.

Quote:

A few days prior to this I had very high confidence and was skiing faster than I had before with more confidence. The other night, the snow was like mashed potatoes and I feel like I have taken a step backward


This is interesting though and might indicate where your problem lies. The trouble with piles of dense snow is that it's much harder to push / slide your skis sideways to turn. I think lessons would be a good suggestion that might really help you.
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Stick with the Revs. At your wieght you can probably flex a much stiffer ski than a skinny guy for the same ability but your experience with the Brahma suggests you techically are not up to that yet (plus possibly wide for NE groomer skiing).

Skis do make a difference but only once you reach a certain level of competence and can start to pinpoint where your current skis are failing.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
MorningGory wrote:
My 2p - if you're still a beginner, why have you got so many skis!!!


Ding ding ding, right answer. Less money on skis, more on lessons. Stick on the Heads until technique means that you're not backseat and straining your thighs too badly.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
This site is awesome.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Matt Dumas wrote:
This site is awesome.

Don't tell us that - it only encourages us. snowHead
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Agree with everyone else saying get lessons asap.

Other than that, damn 163 must seem tiny. I'm 4 inches taller than you and 60lbs lighter and my shortest skis are 183s.

Also, why have you got so many skis!? Twisted Evil
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
To answer the burning question about WHY I have so many skis. I get manic about this stuff with my hobbies. I am also an avid hiker and I have about 15 high-end backpacks.

My dad says I have "more money than brains." haha.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Timmycb5, now now, there should be no judgement about someone suffering from gear acquisition syndrome....although I would question why so many of them do such similar things NehNeh
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Heavy snow is more difficult for you because it won't allow a skidded turn. If you were carving it would hardly affect you, though you'd need to do things more strongly.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Matt Dumas, Are the backpacks like Russian dolls ? Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Clearly the problem is your boots.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Orange200 wrote:
Clearly the problem is your boots.

Not enough pairs? Toofy Grin
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

My thighs are sore when I ski.

I'm no expert but there are numerous threads on here about "thigh burn" and the best advice is lessons, lessons, lessons. Other advice includes, alcohol, nurofen gel to rub in and high grade painkillers. Your thighs hurting probably tells you that even though you think your leaning down the fall line you're probably not.

As for the skis you shouldn't get any criticisms on here when Rule 3 in The Rules states
Quote:

3: The correct number of pairs of skis or snowboards in your quiver is n+1 (where the minimum value for n is 3 : piste, off-piste/tour and park)
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I just booked a private lesson for one hour this Friday night. As far as the boot comment made by Orange200, I initially thought that was a joke meaning that I should hoard boots . . . but maybe there is something to this. I believe my boots fit and are acceptable. I will say that they are soft. Salomon Quest 90. They have one buckle on the shin and I find myself having to put the strap over the tongue under the shell to get good shin pressure.

Next season I am considering custom Strolz.
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Matt Dumas wrote:
I am in the backseat a lot and really focus on getting into the front of my boots and leaning down the fall line. My thighs are sore when I ski.


The cause of this is usually:

1. Technique - As said above...Lessons. One thought that may help: Rather than concentrating on "Getting Forward", try Pulling your Feet Back instead.

2. Fitness - Very important to do the right exercises for leg strength. These are the way to go: https://sawback.com/blog/leg-blasters/

3. Boots - Correctly chosen and set up for you. Also, skis that aren't too stiff and hard to handle for your level.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
An opposing view of skis.

There's no way a 163 to 173 cm length ski will support the dimensions given in "mashed potato" conditions. You'd need somewhere around 190cm to be realistic and probably in widths of 90 to 100mm too.

Problem is you've not the skills to drive them in that dimension, in how you describe your experience level.
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ski3 wrote:
An opposing view of skis.

There's no way a 163 to 173 cm length ski will support the dimensions given in "mashed potato" conditions. You'd need somewhere around 190cm to be realistic and probably in widths of 90 to 100mm too.

Problem is you've not the skills to drive them in that dimension, in how you describe your experience level.

IMV - A correct view, when skiing Mashed Potato.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I mean this in a kind way: if you spend half as much time trying to improve as you do futzing about with gear, you will improve quickly. Get one pair of skis that are suitable for you, learn on them, and get rid of the others. A quiver is something for an accomplished skier to mess with, not a rookie. You'll set yourself back, and if that sounds like the voice of experience, it is.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Old Fartbag wrote:
Matt Dumas wrote:
I am in the backseat a lot and really focus on getting into the front of my boots and leaning down the fall line. My thighs are sore when I ski.


The cause of this is usually:

1. Technique - As said above...Lessons. One thought that may help: Rather than concentrating on "Getting Forward", try Pulling your Feet Back instead.

Neither.

OP needs a professionally fitted boots first thing.

Then, some lessons with a good instructor.

The skis he has would work just fine.
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Lessons. I know private lessons across the pond in the USA cost a fortune compared with Europe. 5 years ago Mr P jnr - (at the time a young instructor aged 21) would be charged out at nigh on $650 or $700 for a day in Squaw Valley (out of which he was paid no more than $150) but despite the cost, it really is what you need right now. Stop. buying. skis. Bin the plan for the Strolz Boots too. IF you genuinely need new boots, go to a good boot fitter and see what they think is right for you.
Snowheads are usually all for a spot of ski related retail, but at your level lessons are the real priority. Eh oh!
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Thanks to all replies. I am booked in for a lesson Friday night. It cost me $109 for a private hour after my $20 season pass discount.

Out of the Skis that I own, which shall I bring? I saw one vote for the Head 170s. Any other input on the ski?

I forgot to mention that I also have a Fischer RC Trend in 160cm!

I will stop buying skis. Haha. I love gear.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Matt Dumas wrote:

Out of the Skis that I own, which shall I bring? I saw one vote for the Head 170s. Any other input on the ski?

The one you've skied the most. (unless you really hate it, then bring the one you like the most so far)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Does anyone else think that the 163cm are too short? Once again, 6 feet 290lbs. I am leaning towards the Head Rev 170s. Every website seems to have a different take on ski length!

Thanks again everyone.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Matt Dumas wrote:
Does anyone else think that the 163cm are too short? Once again, 6 feet 290lbs. I am leaning towards the Head Rev 170s. Every website seems to have a different take on ski length!

Thanks again everyone.


Way too short IMO. Get some DPS Wailer 112’s in a 185 length. That mashed potato won’t know what hit it!

Fellow gear whore Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Matt Dumas, Far too short imv, my wife who is 52kg skis 168cm 108 underfoot.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Matt Dumas, stop buying them too short as well!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Out of the skis listed, the Blizzard Brahma and the Atomic Vantage are heading in the right direction.

Your comments regarding both of these encapsulates your position with reference to skills, and confirms your level as below the capabilities of them in your own analysis.

Nothing at all wrong with that, just brings the question of how best to acquire the skills. As you've done, lesson is best place to start and so you're on your way. Could be a little risky mind wise to take the ski you "like" the least, but it'll have the most potential for the instructor to see what you can't do and why you're blocking that. It's natural to step back from something difficult, but often it's the path to more knowledge.

Are the Brahma 83mm (is that a typo) or 88mm?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Old Fartbag wrote:
Orange200 wrote:
Clearly the problem is your boots.

Not enough pairs? Toofy Grin


I was thinking more the colours don’t match.



Since learning badly as an 80s teen I have spent more on lessons, group and private, to undo my crap techniques than I would ever dare to calculate. It barely works because 20 weeks skiing over 30 years does not muscle memory make. But I have never bought my own boots let alone skis. (10 years boarding in the middle, and never living closer than a full day travel to mountains, meant I didn’t commit to anything).

I don’t think you can credibly blame your equipment when you apparently have little idea what to do with it. “A bad workman blames his tools”.

From what little I know about kit, choose some 173-176 skis, 75-80mm underfoot, and boots which don’t hurt. Sell the rest. Once double that money has been spent on lessons, get new boots. 10 more hours of lessons then choose new skis if you wish.

Set yourself performance targets on the kit you have. You can’t be up a mountain and say “for this next stretch I would have needed X”. You have to survive.




I’m only being harsh as I really want your Brahmas Wink Very Happy.
Good luck with your progress - come back regularly and update us!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Might be best not to confuse the issue re mashed potatoes. Most of us would probably struggle in true mashed potato on a softish piste ski at beginner speeds. I have some FIS SL skis and while they are perhaps the ultimate groomer weapon they really wouldn't be fun in that unless you could cut right through it.
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Matt Dumas wrote:
Does anyone else think that the 163cm are too short? Once again, 6 feet 290lbs. I am leaning towards the Head Rev 170s. Every website seems to have a different take on ski length!

Thanks again everyone.

IMV. Your ski length (For Piste) should be around 175...you can go a little shorter if on a stiffer ski and vica versa.

How fit are you?

Do you partake in other sporty activities?

290lbs not only needs a fair amount of ski to support it - but unless you ski in a very "Stacked" position (using your skeleton to support your weight), you will be putting a lot of stress on your muscles.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 25-02-21 14:02; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I think it's been covered but a summary:

1) Go to a recommended boot fitter, tell them all about yourself and let them guide you. Provided you have gone to the right boot fitter you should end up with a pair that doesn't hinder your skiing and provides for a comfortable day on the mountain.

2) 163cm is too short a ski, should be looking at something mid-170's.

3) Nothing wrong with having more than one pair of ski's - though probably better off spending more money on boots and lessons than stacking them up.

4) Varying conditions will expose weak technique. At the same time nobody can ski everything straight away. You need to embrace the challenge of those varying conditions, go through the pain/hassle of making mistakes, getting frustrated, two steps forward and one step back. Make the learning part of the fun. And always look back to think of the progress you've made.

5) I'd agree with this from snowball "Heavy snow is more difficult for you because it won't allow a skidded turn. If you were carving it would hardly affect you, though you'd need to do things more strongly." See 4
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Not sure SL skis are the ultimate groomer weapon. I agree up to around 25 or so. Any faster, you're on the wrong board. They're a gas for a couple runs though.

+1 on #4 above.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Matt Dumas wrote:
To answer the burning question about WHY I have so many skis. I get manic about this stuff with my hobbies. I am also an avid hiker and I have about 15 high-end backpacks.

My dad says I have "more money than brains." haha.


Um, I hate to say it, but having loads of skis and 15 backpacks doesn't make you a manic skier or rambler. It defines you as a manic shopper, that's all.

Focus more on doing rather than buying.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
TheGeneralist wrote:

Focus more on doing rather than buying.

It's possible, that at some level, the OP may think that a deficiency in skill, can be helped with different skis. If only this were true.
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TheGeneralist wrote:

Um, I hate to say it, but having loads of skis and 15 backpacks doesn't make you a manic skier or rambler. It defines you as a manic shopper, that's all.

Focus more on doing rather than buying.

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Matt Dumas wrote:

Next season I am considering custom Strolz.


I would recommend getting some Stroh instead. It might not help your skiing as much, but you wont give a poo-poo.
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