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Setting Up A Catered Chalet Business

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Afternoon all.

I know that several users of this forum have moved to the Alps and now own/run their own business from there, in the catered chalet side of things. How do you go about doing this? Do you need a large amount of cash to set this type of business up? Do you own the property or rent it? Looking at doing this as a possibility in the future and would appreciate some help/info on how you go about it.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Like everything, it depends. I have owned and run a chalet business which ultimately failed (I had escaped by that point).

We now own some aparments which meet their objectives but are a long game (think retirement planning). And take a lot of time and effort to manage efficiently.

I know many people who have tried and stopped and a few standout successes.

It's not a business for the faint of heart or the undercapitalised.

Nor if you don't have a good understanding of local employment law and practices. And health and safety. And the rest.

Like anything in the hospitality trade it is enormously hard work and pretty much 24/7 in season.

And your competition are often retirees with no mortgages on their property who are running on a B&B basis with minimal income requirements...

And your other competition are major TOs who really just need a contribution to the running costs of their airlines...

Add to that the stress of winter snow conditions especially as reflected in the media, geopolitical shifts (even exchange rates can be a right old nightmare), clients, fecking clients, fecking, fecking clients, local artisanal cowboys and chalet staff who reckon appearing to cook breakfast at 08:00 straight fom the nightclub off their t1ts is acceptable...

Much better to find a way make a decent enough living whereever you like which may or may not include the mountains but allows skiing as often as you feel inclined.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 12-04-16 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Ricklovesthepowder, have you done a search yet? There's loads of info about this
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I also fancy the idea, but have some experience of what is involved at the sharp end having worked a season for someone else, which I would heartily recommend. That's not to say that it presents the whole picture, as being a chalet host/cook does not involve the admin and marketing side. To do it well is really hard graft. I think you have to love it.

Things you may not expect which you have to contend with:
Not all guests are "people like us". Some can be very demanding, or a right PIA. You reputation for next season really does depend on how you manage them.
It's easy to smile and be cheery with guests in the first week of the season. By week 18 it's much harder, and very hard to contend with the same questions you've answered dozens of times already. This includes details of your life history.
Make sure you have private and personal space with your own front door if possible. You will not realise how important it is to you.

My impression of the owner run/occupied market (rather than a mid sized middle market package company) is that it's easy to fill the peak weeks, but very hard to get the punters in for the low season bits.Take a look at any small chalet operators online availability.
Then you have to factor in whether you want to run a place that is too big for just a couple to run so need staff
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@under a new name, I feel your pain...I've just written a very long email to a friend of a friend on why his idea of covering his costs for an apartment won't stack up, and with the burden of being a long distance owner with all the fecking client stuff to add to that pain.

Did I mention that as of today I am mortgage free and no longer renting snowHead snowHead snowHead
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@holidayloverxx, I've never found that to be a burden, I quite enjoy it, but you do have to be realistic ( and I know you will have been). I've had someone in Serre Che who has looked after it since we bought, and has arranged cleaning and maintenance when necessary. It hasn't been without hiccups, and I've had to supplement the French bank account at times, often when we were short of funds here, but we haven't had to do so for some time now, so I must have done something right. However, things have changed since I started renting out our place and I'm not sure I'd want to be starting up now.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
With the European Winter ski industry shrinking, the Summer mountain industry rarely active, the catered-chalet industry massively saturated and oversupplied, and global warming killing the snowline and shortening the ski season, you'd have to be a fruitloop to start an Alpine chalet business today.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Hells Bells, I think the difference is your lady is local. S has been fantastic but has had the burden of doing a huge amount herself when she lives 120 km away with me doing much of what your lady does. The client issues have actually been Belvilla - PITA - they don't consider the homeowner to be a customer even with the sky high commission. Still it served it's purpose and allowed me to pay the mortgage in 5 years instead of 15. Your place is beautiful and you have the benefit of summer weeks as well which I can see makes the difference on income
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If you want time to actually ski, time to see family at Christmas etc, paid holidays etc, from what I've seen you would have an easier time learning skills/training for a job that you can do remotely, or just getting a 'normal' job in a town somewhere in the Alps and skiing weekends.

DO I remember correctly that you were a driving instructor or similar in the UK? Any chance you could do that in the UK in the summers, saving money so you could do just enough part time work in a winter season to cover costs? I think it would be hard to do much more than cover costs with a chalet business anyway (unless you're both very good at it and playing a long game), but you'd have a hell of a lot more work...

Bat maybe speak to the dude who wrote the skiing with demons book and was posting on here (and read the book!), as he did that after a fairly similar situation to you re. divorce...
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@holidayloverxx, very well done to you getting mortgage free!

I have little particular pain as of today, my comments related more to my and others' experience of the catered chalet business, thankfully, but thank you for your sympathy Happy
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Whitegold wrote:
With the European Winter ski industry shrinking, the Summer mountain industry rarely active, the catered-chalet industry massively saturated and oversupplied, and global warming killing the snowline and shortening the ski season, you'd have to be a fruitloop to start an Alpine chalet business today.


And yet more 'Alpine Ski Industry is Dying' Bulls hit from the Bulls hit Meister. Shi t egold, you really need to get a life.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 13-04-16 18:56; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Whitegold

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I suspect Whitegold's conclusion is right, though. Very few people (who will have relevant skills and a lot of capital) could start a catered chalet business today.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

I suspect Whitegold's conclusion is right, though. Very few people (who will have relevant skills and a lot of capital) could start a catered chalet business today.


Agreed. As a 'hobby business' to cover some running costs of your chalet? Yes. As a full on business you need to cover mortgage and pay you an income? Nope.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
pam w wrote:
I suspect Whitegold's conclusion is right, though. Very few people (who will have relevant skills and a lot of capital) could start a catered chalet business today.


Yes, just like people who take over pubs, and discover it is not that easy or profitable.

Anyway this thread has a hint of the JB1970'S about it.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Good luck - but you wont see the light of day for three years.

Why running a chalet? why not just move your job closer to the Alps?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
All the people I know here in Serre that have businesses in the catering side of things, be it hotels, bars, chalets seem hardly to ever ski, there always too knackered, and more importantly some of them want out of doing it and as HellsBells knows have sold up or would love to get out!

There are a few exceptions, notably the Swedes.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
From what I've seen, if you want to make a living out of a catered chalet business then you probably need rather more scale than you imagine. I'd guess a minimum of three upmarket chalets with two staff each and someone in London doing sales ande admin etc. By the time you've paid rents, salaries, food, sales comissions etc. then you will probably end up with a decent living. Trying to do it with one chalet is unliekly to be viable. Others will know far more about it than me, but I do think you need huge scale, and also need to accept that you won't get to ski more than once in a blue moon.
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@Weathercam, We've been asked several times if we want to buy a bar. I might consider another self-catering apartment or two at the right price, but nothing that would keep me off the mountain. Even apartment managers doesn't seem to get to ski much.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
From long observation ideal occupations to get a lot of quality skiing in:

Long haul pilot (who can at least standby out of e.g. Geneva)
On/off offshore work
Coder

Worst:

Pisteur
Ski instructor
Anyone trying to make a career in hospitality
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@pam w, while the conclusion may be right, the way it was delivered is typical of @Whitegold's miserable, doom laden posts. Victor Meldrew lives.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Rick, you've not said (and no reason you should have done) why you want to a) move to the Alps (any particular country?) and b) run a catered chalet.

In answer to the questions you actually asked in your OP: IMO you will have to rent a property rather than own it and you will need more back up cash than the lump sum you mentioned in other posts after the sale of your house.

As holidayloverxx said, do a search on here - you will find lots of info to help you narrow down your plans and questions.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Rick knows a man who flips a burger or two.

Rick has a past he wants to leave.

Rick likes skiing.

Won't mention canals.

Chalet ownership obviously these way forward.
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I'm moving to the alps in a few years but no way would i want the hassle of owning and running a company out there.

We are moving for a life style choice, I'll be delighted to wok for someone else taking all the strain that goes with having your own business (I'm currently self employed and own a restaurant) There aren't many perks left having your own place, and frankly, it really isn't that worth it unless you go pretty big scale.

OP - Considered moving out and working for someone or offering your services? Thats what I'm going to be doing, I want a bit of time to myself and be able to ski a bit.
Trust me, you'll never have worked so hard in your life owning and running a chalet, never mind trying to fill it. (for the first few years anyway)

I'm sure there are many success stories but i think that time has gone now and establishing yourself could be very tricky. But hey, if you want to do it, throw yourself into it, work hard and it could all go well!!

One life and all that.
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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@Ricklovesthepowder, going by this and my thread on the chalets board, the demand is for local keyholding/cleaning/maintenance (at least knowing the local tradespeople). That would require no overhead on your part and would occupy you on Sat/Sun so you are free for skiing in the week when it's less busy. Of course you'd have to pick your resort and probably spend a season building up contacts first but still...
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Quote:

From long observation ideal occupations to get a lot of quality skiing in:

Long haul pilot (who can at least standby out of e.g. Geneva)
On/off offshore work
Coder


Agreed. I have a few friends who so rope access work so go and work for 3 months cleaning the inside of an oil tanker or similar, then go ki for 3 months, 3 months blasting bird poo of a skyscraper, 3 months kit surfing somewhere nice.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The other option to the hassle of buying a chalet etc / apartments is to do what many "Geezernaires" out here to do and that is they own properties back in the UK that they rent out (delivers the income) and then they rent here for the season.

We sort of do the same, except we bought here, plus I also do my web work here sans problems. Just can be a tad weird when some new business comes my way via an email / phone call generated via Google where I do rather well for "Brighton and Worthing Website design" and then we're chatting away and maybe get to the stage or possibly working together and then they ask can they meet up as we're both local to Worthing!

Then depending on how far through we are in the season I have to explain our lifestyle and where I actually am, sometimes can be an issue with people rolling eyes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Weathercam, good point, although the arbitrage between renting a small croft in Shetland f'rinstance won't get you very far in central Chamonix Twisted Evil
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name wrote:
From long observation ideal occupations to get a lot of quality skiing in:

Long haul pilot (who can at least standby out of e.g. Geneva)
On/off offshore work
Coder

Worst:

Pisteur
Ski instructor
Anyone trying to make a career in hospitality


You're not wrong.

2/3 rota.

2 weeks offshore.
3 weeks leave. Returned home last week after 2 weeks in Espace Killy, total of 4 weeks this season. I intend to beat that next season. Very Happy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
No further contribution from RLTP. Maybe he's given up on the idea already
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Do you have any experience of working in the professional catering industry?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Having owned a Catered chalet business I do not reccommend it - with mine and mr mountain addictions long history of working in the professional catering industry and him having done a huge amount of seasons (mostly in hotels and chalet, the odd bumming season) we just couldn't believe how some (read:most) people behaved and acted like they were doing you a favor by holidaying in your chalet.

I have plenty of horror stories, and it's not a thing I would ever go back to - although I would go back to professional catering i would not go back to the chalet industry.

Guests seem to get confused - in a hotel you cannot just walk in to the kitchen and start talking to the head chef asking him if he knows what he's doing or about how many days he goes skiing, or in a BnB either, no waltzing in to the kitchen to be really demanding about rinsing out the teapot whilst the breakfast is being cooked.

Or they don't want to leave the chalet when the weather is slightly bad so they all stay in their rooms that haven't been cleaned because they haven't left them for long enough, then complain that you don't do enough cleaning, and there isn't enough hot water because a family of 10 needs 2 showers each a day and leave the door wide open when it's -25 and the chalet gets cold that there must be something wrong with your heating.

Most people in the Chalet holiday market want the privacy of a self catered chalet but to have an amazing chef who doesn't actually need to use the kitchen yet produces michelin star quality food.

Not to mention how disconnected people are with how much a Chalet holiday should actually cost, because they have no idea of the costs involved in running a business in France (or other country than UK), and forget that a Hot Tub, lights left on all day, accountant, tax and fees, food, your time, and profit etc all need to be factored in, because they don't want to see that you're there to make money, because they think all you do is go skiing all day and totally make a killing from them.

Don't forget to get a drinks licence that you have to go on a 3 day course all in French for.

And not to mention the hugley over saturated chalet holiday market.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sat 16-04-16 14:46; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Maybe he's given up on the idea already

He's not been a stand-out for sticking power, up to now. wink

@under a new name, let me know if you know anyone with a nice cheap basic croft to rent out on Shetland...
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Mountain Addiction wrote:
and there isn't enough hot water because a family of 10 needs 2 showers each a day

Doesn't matter how many people in a family. You should have enough hot water for all guests to have a shower in the morning and another before dinner. If you think this is unreasonable I'm not surprised you no longer run a chalet.

I was once in a chalet where we were all asked to stagger showers throughout the day so the hot water wouldn't run out rolling eyes and not to all wash our hair on the same days Laughing . (I now stay in hotels if possible.)
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think it depends on the price of the chalet. We stayed in some pretty basic ones when the kids were young. There certainly wasn't enough hot water for everybody to have two showers a day, and bathrooms and toilets were shared. It was fine - and very good value. When friends and family stay in my apartment I have to warn them that if several people take long showers, one immediately after the other, the water might go cold. It's the same at home. If chalets advertise luxury facilities they should provide them, but the price range of chalets is huge. If you are paying £50 a day for dinner, bed, tea and cake and breakfast (less than many B & Bs in the UK) it would be folly to expect luxury.
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Who needs two showers a day? WTF?

France is tricky in that it is quite typical to have electric water heating. So limited and slow.

We can - if we must - accommodate 24 in our building and have a pretty punchy boiler with a 250L tank. Haven't had any problems so far ...
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@under a new name, I'm not sure anyone 'needs' two showers a day, and I rather doubt that everyone in the chalet actually did want two a day, but everyone should be able to shower at the end of the day and if the chalet's boiler can't reheat the water again within 8 hours then you have a problem.

@Mountain Addiction, It sounds like you had your fill of running a chalet and while I don't blame you I am surprised by some if your gripes. Talking to the chef? Asking for a teapot to be rinsed out? Expecting guests to be aware of your running costs and work around them?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

not to mention the hugley over saturated chalet holiday market.


the most important point, I think. When we stayed in chalets it was made quite clear at the initial briefing (except in one) that the kitchen was absolutely out of bounds, at all times. Everybody respected that. In the last one (much more expensive, Le Ski in Courchevel, last minute bargain ) we were told it was OK to go into the kitchen and make a cup of tea etc, and even to pinch something "leftover" from the fridge for a snack, provided we respected the very obvious stuff (like 14 identical desserts covered in cling film) specially prepared for the evening meal. The couple who ran that chalet were very experienced and also seemed to spend hours each day skiing. Nobody would have gone into the kitchen to chat or make a cup of tea when he was at full stretch preparing the meal - that's just rude.

At home, my kitchen is very small, but "open plan" to the rest of the living area, so people can stand outside and still talk to me if they want. But I am ruthless about shooing them out of the kitchen.
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@foxtrotzulu, a shower atbthe end of the day, absolutely, two showers a day? Really?

Anyway, our system copes admirably.
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Hubby frequently has two showers a day, like you I think WTF, and have one after skiing, but not always in the morning.
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