 Poster: A snowHead
|
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55645396
| Code: |
A British tourist has been blamed for a spike in coronavirus cases that led officials to cancel Switzerland's famous Lauberhorn ski race.
The resort of Wengen, where the race is held, had recorded only 10 cases of the virus by mid-December.
But the number soon began to rise and many cases have since been linked to the new highly-infectious variant of Covid-19 first identified in the UK.
At least 27 cases are connected to one British tourist, contact tracers say.
The tourist stayed in a hotel in Wengen over the holiday period. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
British Covid carriers the scourge of the Alps!! What with the "plague anglaise" and BoJo still allowing any poxy Tom, Dick, and Harry (even from Brazil) to enter the UK without medical clearance, no wonder the Swiss are targeting the Brits. This story will run and run.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| skimastaaah wrote: |
| no wonder the Swiss are targeting the Brits. This story will run and run. |
"Now the high point of Switzerland's skiing calendar has been abruptly cancelled, and some Swiss blame the British.
Others say Switzerland only has itself to blame."
It's the BBC.
Doesn't read like the Swiss are "targeting the Brits". More like some Brits blame their own countrymen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
https://www.htr.ch/story/britischer-superspreader-ist-ursprung-von-corona-ausbruch-in-wengen-30097.html
"28 cases in one hotel
In a single hotel there were 28 positive cases over the turn of the year. A British hotel guest turned out to be a super spreader. The man did not immediately go into quarantine, as canton doctor Linda Nartey said at a point de press of the federal authorities. A test showed that the tourist was carrying the mutated virus.
According to Nartey, the virus spread very quickly, although the protection concepts had been implemented in the hotel: masks were worn and the distances were maintained as far as possible in daily work. The strong spread could not prevent this."
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I hope it was one of the morons who decided to 'risk it' and go for Christmas, despite the known risks. This is all detailed in another thread.
I think one of the arguments was that if it's technically allowed then the responsibility isn't on them...
This country
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Somewhere in another thread there is a link to an article giving a non sensational view of what really happened
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No doubt shoes how (in) effective masks really are. Must behave myself........
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I watched the broadcasting of the committee live. I can’t stand Yvette cooper but she skewered Boris with the question of closing travel to and from Brazil. He didn’t come across as particularly worried but as the day has gone on, apparently now is!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Back on topic. We know who the Brit super spreader is, and he is persona non grata in the village. The hotel concerned is closed now. 200 of us were tested this afternoon. Total positives: zero. It's a non-story that might destroy the season for our village.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@telford_mike, thanks for that update. Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Back on topic. We know who the Brit super spreader is, and he is persona non grata in the village. The hotel concerned is closed now. 200 of us were tested this afternoon. Total positives: zero. It's a non-story that might destroy the season for our village. |
Thanks for the update and good to hear of the thorough and successful testing.
I have to say that I think the introduction of general pre travel testing has been too slow everywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Back on topic. We know who the Brit super spreader is, and he is persona non grata in the village. The hotel concerned is closed now. |
As a matter of interest which hotel was it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Back on topic. We know who the Brit super spreader is, and he is persona non grata in the village. The hotel concerned is closed now. 200 of us were tested this afternoon. Total positives: zero. It's a non-story that might destroy the season for our village. |
Thank you.
I note in my source here "the authorities assume that all positive cases can be traced back to the mutated coronavirus from GB". I would like to think we can have the variant confirmed for the majority of the cases within the next quarter, as 6/200 positives with the GB variant is very much a WIP. However, with the information available, I think this is a reasonable assumption, looking in from a long distance. The reason I brought the above up is that I'd be interested to know whether or not this person had symptoms, to better examine it as a case study of international transmission.
(Paragraph edited to soften the impression of being a useful idiot)
I'm pretty sad about it, nobody benefits here, and those who live in Wengen get it in the neck with restrictions and worries about their health. I may be opposed to lockdown policy, but I wouldn't dream of contravening it when it can have such an instant bad outcome. Even before we count positive tests, mild illness, worse illness, hospitalization, that hotel has just lost at least two weeks of the already diminished season. I'll get into finger pointing territory if I keep typing, so I will now divert to a more appropriate website.
Source: https://www.htr.ch/story/britischer-superspreader-ist-ursprung-von-corona-ausbruch-in-wengen-30097.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Problem the Swiss created for themselves by declaring they were open to the world for skiing. If not that guy someone else, if not Wengen somewhere else. Of course people dodge honour quarantine ( that's why Oz locked incomers in hotels) and in any event people were entering CH before it imposed its retroactive quarantine on some UK citizens (which seems a matter of bad faith when it comes to policy).
The blame game is unsavoury. For all the aggrieved Brits in Wengen it's only those who live there year round who really have any righteous foundation. As for the rest of the village - if they were willing to take the business from non Swiss then they equally have a hand in the consequences.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| colinstone wrote: |
https://www.htr.ch/story/britischer-superspreader-ist-ursprung-von-corona-ausbruch-in-wengen-30097.html
"28 cases in one hotel" |
28 in ONE hotel. How many guests were in the hotel at the time, I wonder?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| abc wrote: |
| colinstone wrote: |
https://www.htr.ch/story/britischer-superspreader-ist-ursprung-von-corona-ausbruch-in-wengen-30097.html
"28 cases in one hotel" |
28 in ONE hotel. How many guests were in the hotel at the time, I wonder? |
Was that all down to one Brit? Now that is a “world beating” superspreading alright!
What was he doing, snogging them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Also, realistically what difference would it have made that he's confined in his room vs. being able to leave the room but move around inside the hotel?
Where else would the man be to infect the rest of the hotel? Was he mixing with other guest in the hotel? Or did he infect the hotel workers?
As stated, mask was supposed to have been worn when the man was outside of his room. Were there any insight on how he infected so many others? (unless there's a party or "mixer" going on in the hotel lobby. But that would be against the social distancing guidelines  )
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Back on topic. We know who the Brit super spreader is, and he is persona non grata in the village. The hotel concerned is closed now. 200 of us were tested this afternoon. Total positives: zero. It's a non-story that might destroy the season for our village. |
Good to hear that you tested negative and that so many others did as well.
When you say he is persona non grata, does that mean he's banned from future visits or some other penalty imposed?
There's a post on another thread that seems to suggest he might not be such a villain (i.e. was not subject to quarantine and probably caught it in resort). Do you know if there's anything in that or is it fake news?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DCG, since last March (or whenever it was that all this started) there's been an unwritten rule here that new arrivals basically keep themselves to themselves for a few days to ensure that anything they caught on the way here doesn’t develop into anything sinister. So despite the fact that he wasn’t legally required to quarantine, he should have done so anyway, for a few days at least. This strategy has ensured that cases in the village have remained at almost zero over the summer and autumn (I think we had 2 cases total).
There won't be any formal sanctions, since no laws were broken. Informally however the guy is derided (in the street) at every opportunity, which in a small village like ours is probably worse than a fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@telford_mike, can you say which hotel it was that had to close, I feel sorry for the hotel owner and staff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Alastair Pink, sorry, you asked that before and I missed the question somehow. It was the Victoria Lauberhorn, home to a SnowHeads bash many years ago. Others have closed too - Sunstar, Belvedere, Wengenerhof, Alpenruhe. This is not always because of infections, but many staff have to quarantine, and a 10 day (or so) break provides a 'fire break' for quarantines to complete before reopening in time for February.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
There won't be any formal sanctions, since no laws were broken. Informally however the guy is derided (in the street) at every opportunity, which in a small village like ours is probably worse than a fine. |
You're not painting the community in Wengen in a very positive light. Kangaroo court based on no actual law broken. Wengen opened for business therefore they opened themselves up to a risk from someone.Either that or there is an extremely naive view of human nature.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
You're not painting the community in Wengen in a very positive light. Kangaroo court based on no actual law broken. Wengen opened for business therefore they opened themselves up to a risk from someone.Either that or there is an extremely naive view of human nature. |
Not at all. The individual concerned is a very regular guest and knows the rules. Wengen didn’t open for business, the canton did. We had no choice, and so the guests arrived.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
There won't be any formal sanctions, since no laws were broken. Informally however the guy is derided (in the street) at every opportunity, which in a small village like ours is probably worse than a fine. |
You're not painting the community in Wengen in a very positive light. Kangaroo court based on no actual law broken. Wengen opened for business therefore they opened themselves up to a risk from someone.Either that or there is an extremely naive view of human nature. |
I agree. If there is an 'unwritten rule, how is anybody supposed to know and I'm not sure what quarantining 'for a few days at least' means; one day, three days? Either there is a quarantine based on the science or, as in the case here, not. The decision was made not to adopt a standard approach to quarantine by the sounds of it and this is the result. Very unpleasant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ptex wrote: |
Very unpleasant. |
Indeed. Very unpleasant if you live here and have to queue-up for a test in the freezing cold on account of an infected tourist who should have known better than to visit every hotel in the village after travelling!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| ptex wrote: |
Very unpleasant. |
Indeed. Very unpleasant if you live here and have to queue-up for a test in the freezing cold on account of an infected tourist who should have known better than to visit every hotel in the village after travelling! |
Did the whole village get tested? Not sure of numbers that would be but guess at 1000 or so. I hear from landlady that Lauterbrunnen are going to set up a mass screening test, but not in any response to an infection outbreak.
Many hotels in Lauterbrunnen and Muerren are closed. Those open only have a few guests and are offering takeaway meals.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
I'll stand by the "argument" I had on Facebook. Regardless of quarantine rules, unnecessary travel right now is an issue. If you do so and fail to quarantine (rules or not), then ultimately you're putting yourself and others at risk. People need to take responsibility for their actions. Kangaroo court maybe, but the actions of this one selfish person has made many people ill and caused the cancellation of a major World Cup event, not to mention the financial losses incurred.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@colinstone, I guess we'll never know how many people had a test, but the Gemeinde. asked us all to go, so we did. 1000 is correct for our population though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@telford_mike, Thanks for that feedback. Out of interest, does the guy show remorse and has he apologised or has his arrogance survived intact?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| DCG wrote: |
| @telford_mike, Thanks for that feedback. Out of interest, does the guy show remorse and has he apologised or has his arrogance survived intact? |
'If the man was obeying the law then why should he apologise? If the authorities don't think he was obeying the law then charge him with an offence.
Guidance and Rules are not the law. If you dont want folks to come to Wengen and bring covid then make it illegal to do so. If you want folks to quarantine - then make it the law, register folks when they arrive and have the police check that they are doing it or force them to quarantine in an approved location - charge them with a crime if they do not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| ropetow wrote: |
'If the man was obeying the law then why should he apologise? |
You're in a crowded pub trying to squeeze through to get to the bar and accidently nudge someone on the way past causing them to spill their drink. No law broken, but wouldn't you apologise?
This is a somewhat more harmful situation - unintentionally infecting many people with a potentially deadly virus and causing the cancellation of the Lauberhorn race
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Makes me glad that I a pre travel PCR test, £250, and quarantine period, fully obeyed, and another rapid flow test.
And Super Spreader, SS, takes on a new meaning!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
You're not painting the community in Wengen in a very positive light. Kangaroo court based on no actual law broken. Wengen opened for business therefore they opened themselves up to a risk from someone.Either that or there is an extremely naive view of human nature. |
Not at all. The individual concerned is a very regular guest and knows the rules. Wengen didn’t open for business, the canton did. We had no choice, and so the guests arrived. |
I don't understand - I could perfectly well have travelled to Wengen on say 12 December and been fine within the law and wouldn't have any knowledge of these "unwritten rules" - I wouldn't have been voluntarily quarantining myself for half a holiday. I'd have been unlikely to be larging it up at internal gatherings , not least for my own protection, but I'd have been cogniscent that it would be impossible for any hotel to operate an entirely COVID risk free model not least because they would be accomodating guests from outside the village bubble. It's all fairly 101 for resorts isn't it for those that open it's only a matter of time before they have an "incident"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
You're not painting the community in Wengen in a very positive light. Kangaroo court based on no actual law broken. Wengen opened for business therefore they opened themselves up to a risk from someone.Either that or there is an extremely naive view of human nature. |
Not at all. The individual concerned is a very regular guest and knows the rules. Wengen didn’t open for business, the canton did. We had no choice, and so the guests arrived. |
I don't understand - I could perfectly well have travelled to Wengen on say 12 December and been fine within the law and wouldn't have any knowledge of these "unwritten rules" - I wouldn't have been voluntarily quarantining myself for half a holiday. I'd have been unlikely to be larging it up at internal gatherings , not least for my own protection, but I'd have been cogniscent that it would be impossible for any hotel to operate an entirely COVID risk free model not least because they would be accomodating guests from outside the village bubble. It's all fairly 101 for resorts isn't it for those that open it's only a matter of time before they have an "incident"? |
Can I just remind everyone that we are in the midst of a global pandemic. 12 December is not a long time ago and everyone knew that it was a bad and irresponsible idea to travel at that time. People looking for loopholes and exceptions to exploit so they can meet their selfish needs are the lowest of the low for me. Especially if they then try and claim that the law was at fault for allowing them to do it. Grow up. Take some responsibility and stop deflecting blame on to others. The effect of contracting and passing the virus on to someone could lead to a death! To me this is a worse offense than stealing from a shop or plenty of other petty crimes as the consequence to society is so much worse.
This virus does not have legs. It only travels via people and so those who are mixing, especially those bending the rules to do so, are the reason why the situation is getting worse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DCG, remorse? I'm absolutely sure he feels remorse, but whether that remorse is public I don't know.
@Dave of the Marmottes, I agree that it was bound to happen to some extent, but one person infecting 27 others? I think that speaks for itself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| @DCGThere won't be any formal sanctions, since no laws were broken. |
If he had breached quarantine, then he would have broken the law, and there are sanctions.
From
https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/empfehlungen-fuer-reisende/quarantaene-einreisende.html
| Code: |
| Anyone who fails to comply with the quarantine requirement or the duty to report to the authorities is committing an offence under the Epidemics Act (in German), which can be punished by a fine of up to CHF 10,000. |
Reading between the lines of the thread (I can’t see it explicitly stated anywhere above) it seems like this guy arrived before the quarantine requirement actually came in? So there was no requirement to quarantine? Just an “unwritten rule”  . Whether or not you think it was wise to travel, if something is permitted, people are going to do it. Seems more appropriate to direct your frustration at the Swiss Federal Government for allowing Brits entry, and the Bern Cantonal Goverment for allowing their ski areas, restaurants and hotels to remain open (not all cantons did), than it does to direct it a a single tourist who it now appears was actually acting within the rules. If it hadn’t been him, it would have been someone else. Perhaps someone who had never heard of Wengen’s unwritten rules.
| telford_mike wrote: |
| @DCG, since last March (or whenever it was that all this started) there's been an unwritten rule here that new arrivals basically keep themselves to themselves for a few days to ensure that anything they caught on the way here doesn’t develop into anything sinister. |
Does it only apply to Brits? My (Swiss) neighbours merrily trotted off to some small village in Canton Bern to ski for Christmas week, clearly not quarantining before they started their holiday. If they had visited Wengen, would you have expected them to quarantine? What about other nationalities?
| telford_mike wrote: |
| Informally however the guy is derided (in the street) at every opportunity, which in a small village like ours is probably worse than a fine. |
Are you serious? Wengen sounds medieval.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| telford_mike wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, I agree that it was bound to happen to some extent, but one person infecting 27 others? I think that speaks for itself. |
Did he definitely directly infect 27? I read that 27 of the infections could be traced back to him - which could have started with him infecting only a few people and the chain very quickly accelarating from there. Especially if all these people were attending Schneebars and church services and getting in cable cars. That’s not quite the same.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
