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ski sunday return 10-01-2021

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm a boarder but absolutely love watching Ski Racing. Have no interest in learning to Ski downhill but quite fancy a bit of Ski Touring.

Love watching Boarder Cross too but find anything that is judged arbitrarily (like slope style) a bit boring. Takes massive amounts of bravery and skill though, just like downhill!

SG this morning, trying not to watch until after work!
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mr.Egg wrote:
@NickYoung,

surely you can see the technical difficulty in someone doing a 1080 (3 full rotations) compared to a just grabbing the board?
Not just going down a slope weaving between a few poles like most weeks.
UK does better in them disciplines than the one guy on 2 planks of wood manage.
Charlotte Bankes came 5th in yesterday SBX. Not even a mention for her.

I think Ski Sunday should be on for longer & covering more disciplines. Inc. Ski Jumping.
I would also like to see a segment each week covering a different resort or region.

Just look back at Eurosport schedule yesterday. A lot more disciplines going on that just the downhill + the ones not shown on Eurosport!


You misunderstand me. I get that completely and I watch in awe that people can do that stuff! It's impressive.

What I mean is, apart from having issues with a serious sport where it's someone's opinion of how well you did, I can't tell the quality of one from the other.

Often I'll see a run a think "wow", then a run that I think was shoddy (or less impressive), scores higher. It certainly seems like there is a bit of favouritism in some of the scoring - but I guess that's me not having a technical eye for it.

Now, when a skier bombs down a piste at 90kmph...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
D'oh yes of course they're not allowed to travel atm so she wouldn't be able to ski the courses. Silly me.
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NickYoung wrote:
Mr.Egg wrote:
@NickYoung,

surely you can see the technical difficulty in someone doing a 1080 (3 full rotations) compared to a just grabbing the board?
Not just going down a slope weaving between a few poles like most weeks.
UK does better in them disciplines than the one guy on 2 planks of wood manage.
Charlotte Bankes came 5th in yesterday SBX. Not even a mention for her.

I think Ski Sunday should be on for longer & covering more disciplines. Inc. Ski Jumping.
I would also like to see a segment each week covering a different resort or region.

Just look back at Eurosport schedule yesterday. A lot more disciplines going on that just the downhill + the ones not shown on Eurosport!


You misunderstand me. I get that completely and I watch in awe that people can do that stuff! It's impressive.

What I mean is, apart from having issues with a serious sport where it's someone's opinion of how well you did, I can't tell the quality of one from the other.

Often I'll see a run a think "wow", then a run that I think was shoddy (or less impressive), scores higher. It certainly seems like there is a bit of favouritism in some of the scoring - but I guess that's me not having a technical eye for it.

Now, when a skier bombs down a piste at 90kmph...


It's the same for me with subjective judgement of a "sport" as it just seems a way for program makers to impose drama into anything they broadcast, when of course good sport can produce epic drama all of itself. That's for any discipline that maybe your favourite sport.

Agree with the program being longer though, positive involvement in sport and showing it on mainstream broadcast is of huge value to society in general. Better by far than all the gameshow dross dumped across most channels for significant % of time.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'll have a go at ya @japes1275.

I'll argue that downhill isn't exactly racing either, its time-trialling. And it's not fair time-trialling at that. Take the last race, the Hahnenkamm; arguably the blue riband event of the season. You're running the event over only 2 laps of the course, with the course surface degrading after each run, in an environment where the conditions are constantly fluctuating. At the end you're timing people to the hundredth of a second, where minor deviations in any of those non-race variables could cause detriment or advantage in the tenths range. Look at the variable visibility in the top quarter of the track, some people could go faster and spot their landing, some had to slow to shorten the jump and compromise. People who get better conditions get artificially high finishes. Slalom is even worse - you'll hear in the commentary how the rutted course is affecting later runners times.

So don't argue that this kind of racing has some kind of noble purity about it - anybody within a delta half-second of the leader can probably rightly argue they just got gypped on the day.
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I watched the Womens Super-G on Eurosport and was really disappointed that there was hardly a mention - and certainly no footage - of what was a very exciting race. The Italian coach had set the course to be ⅓ Super-G and the rest effectively a Downhill, with a number of really tricky jumps and turns that meant there were a lot of DNFs but no serious accidents. It did look like a course that would favour the more technical Italian team but it was won by a Swiss. We didn't get anything of this. I'm rapidly going off Ski Sunday now that we've got Eurosport and see how much mainstream events they simply ignore. And I'm sorry, but The Aged Snowboarder's hysterical commentary really puts me off.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Mr.Egg, Oooooh what the actual F is that ski-cross race! STRETCHY PANTS! Fuggit the spandex freaks have taken skier-cross, There used to be a gentleman's agreement about this. Terje was right, this is what happens if you leave the FIS in charge of anything.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Richard_Sideways, the slalom thing - surely that's better as they do two runs, and it's in reverse order so the later 'better' competitors on the second run get the worst conditions?

Off the back of that, the parallel slalom is always fun, but it's sometimes really obvious when one side is skiing better than the other. I think they swap sides though?

I do like a bit of direct competition, the ski jumping knock outs can be a total toss up, and ski/board cross, well, that lot are just nuts and it's usually impossible to call!

There's so much out there, horses for courses (and thank goodness for eurosport player!) snowHead
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@ElzP, How is that fair? Why should the better skier get worse conditions? All you are doing is artificially closing the pack up to make it more interesting to the punters.

Parallel is done over 2 courses, and is proper racing.
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@Richard_Sideways, not utterly fair, but more fair as done over 2 runs than any of the races which are timed over one run (so totally dependent on one shot). Was responding to you saying slalom was worse.

Entirely agree that parallel is proper racing, and for me more exciting to watch.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Richard_Sideways, Skiing sports don't pretend to be "fair" - they embrace the unpredictable effects of the environment. It's sport.

Can you tell me how, in F1, the guy the the fastest car, gets to start at the front of the grid (pole position). That's "not fair". Utter madness! Very Happy
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
japes1275 wrote:
I’ll give you that Snoodles, drifting is impressive (but still a bit pointless other than for a bit of showing off or getting rid of some old tyres!).


Depends how you define pointless. Not a whole lot of point to skiing downhill really fast either, or football or dancing or ice skating etc. etc. It's entertainment, whether there is value in it as a 'sport' is debatable, but I generally find with judged sports that once you've watched them quite a bit you appreciate the nuances of what is a better run/performance.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Not forgetting that there is still a big underground movement in snowboarding/slopestyle etc, where the idea of it being a competition is totally foreign - it's a visual artform, there to be enjoyed/

Medals, sponsorship, fame - all mainstream concepts rejected.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
You guys need to chill, it's a magazine programme, you don't need to like/read every bit.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@NickYoung, If it's not fair, then it's not a sport! As for your F1 argument, well there are plenty of single make championships, and likewise, skiers have different brands of ski under them, but that's not the point i'm making - F1 is a race, comparing skiing against F1 isn't comparing like for like, its closer to rallying in that regard. And I didn't agree with rallying when they started running the cars in reverse order either and neither did the drivers, so they just slowed down or even stopped in stage a bit to make sure they had favourable running position on the stages next day.

My point particularly is that people seem very quick to jump on other events and say they don't understand what's going and "It's not proper racing". Well they don't appear to understand what they are watching either if they think they are watching racing. At least in a judged event (assuming that judges are fair and impartial) you are looking at a comparable like-for-like competition between competitors with no significant advantage or disadvantage over the individuals skill, which meant the person who performs best wins.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Boarding is the best bit! They had a brilliant section with Beyond Medals last season (olympic boarders that got kicked off the team so started just having fun instead).
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ski Sunday is a mainstream programme on a mainstream channel. Its roots are firmly in alpine ski racing because that was, and remains, the easiest for the 'mainstream' audience to understand. The competitor with the quickest time over a pre-determined course is the winner: simple. More recently, the programme has tried to widen its appeal to a younger generation with coverage of freestyle and snowboarding etc. This is less easy for the non-wintersports audience to understand, I'm afraid. I find the boarding stuff boring to be honest and all this 'visual artform' stuff is a bit pretentious. The dilemma for the programme is trying to balance all the elements in 45 minutes. Not sure with pressure on time and resources, it's ever going to please everyone.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Back in the day Ski Sunday was the only show to watch the ski racing on. Everyone with a keen interest in the racing tuned in to watch David Vine comment on the races. Nowadays, nearly everyone with a keen interest in the racing has already watched it before Ski Sunday airs. As a result of this, it has become (as @Layne, said) a magazine programme. It had to to keep the viewing figures, which would slump if it only showed races that the target audience had already watched*. As such, some segments are bound to be of more interest than others, which will vary to each of us.
*Though Ski Sunday does a much better job at building up the hype before the likes of Wengen & Kitzbuhel.
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I love it always have always will, simples. Always watched it with my mum when I was a kid and I always look forward to it every winter. Toofy Grin
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
LOTA wrote:
This is less easy for the non-wintersports audience to understand, I'm afraid.


Really? What's hard to understand? Huge number of people watch a 'judged' contest every Saturday night for weeks and weeks and understand it, just a different set of parameters.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
LOTA wrote:
This is less easy for the non-wintersports audience to understand, I'm afraid.


Really? What's hard to understand? Huge number of people watch a 'judged' contest every Saturday night for weeks and weeks and understand it, just a different set of parameters.


But they don't know WHY something is good/correct/excellent/flawed do they?

Can the average viewer really tell a flawless Cab360 from a decent one?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@NickYoung, how do they know whether a dance is any good on Strictly?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@SnoodlesMcFlude, Because it looks good, looks technical, is aesthetically pleasing, because we like the performer, because it's exciting...there are a load of reasons.

We don't need to be experts to recognise excellence.

It doesn't mean we know how or why something is ACTUALLY a technical performance success.

Pubs (used to be), are full of people who can coach better that Klopp.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
NickYoung wrote:
@SnoodlesMcFlude, Because it looks good, looks technical, is aesthetically pleasing, because we like the performer, because it's exciting...there are a load of reasons.


Ding ding ding. Same answer for freestyle snowboard/skiing.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@SnoodlesMcFlude, Be Nice please! it! You're right, I am an expert!
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Richard_Sideways,

http://youtube.com/v/2biE7TTdpLQ&ab_channel=Olympic

Toofy Grin
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
NickYoung wrote:
@Richard_Sideways, Skiing sports don't pretend to be "fair" - they embrace the unpredictable effects of the environment. It's sport.



a bit like golf...
whoever does the best against the elements thrown at them
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@NickYoung, don't need to be an expert to watch and enjoy something. Strictly analogy applies again, you won't always have exactly the same opinion as the expert judges, but I don't think one needs to be particular knowledgeable, or even that bright, to tell a generally bad run from a generally good one.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@SnoodlesMcFlude, I understand your point.

I just don't understand why you are stalking me - I haven't argued to the counter of what you have said.

Like when I put "I watch in awe that people can do that stuff! It's impressive" or "We don't need to be experts to recognise excellence."
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
NickYoung wrote:

Can you tell me how, in F1, the guy the the fastest car, gets to start at the front of the grid (pole position). That's "not fair". Utter madness! Very Happy

The order on the grid is decided by speed on the practice days where cars aren't obstructing each other. Seems fair. What isn't fair is that some cars are better than others, so it is arguably more a test of the cars than the drivers. Mind you, it would be more exciting if the faster drivers/cars had to overtake the slower ones. There would be loads more crashes. Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@snowball, Yes, hence the Very Happy - I was poking a stick at the concept of "fairness" in sport.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@NickYoung, stalking? You responded to one of my posts first and I replied, that's how discussion forums work Puzzled
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
LOTA wrote:
Ski Sunday is a mainstream programme on a mainstream channel. Its roots are firmly in alpine ski racing because that was, and remains, the easiest for the 'mainstream' audience to understand. The competitor with the quickest time over a pre-determined course is the winner: simple. More recently, the programme has tried to widen its appeal to a younger generation with coverage of freestyle and snowboarding etc. This is less easy for the non-wintersports audience to understand, I'm afraid. I find the boarding stuff boring to be honest and all this 'visual artform' stuff is a bit pretentious. The dilemma for the programme is trying to balance all the elements in 45 minutes. Not sure with pressure on time and resources, it's ever going to please everyone.


What about slalom boarding?

I find slalom boring until the last 1/2 a dozen in the 2nd run.
I enjoy cross racing and ski jumping.
The slope style looks good, but gets boring quickly.
However its not difficult to see the level of skill in the run for both halfpipe winners on yesterdays show.
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Very good again, but this time : WHO GAVE CHEMMY WHITE GLOVES - so that when she waves her hands about on EVERY syllable , it’s now visually painful , rather than just distracting

Good show though
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@NickYoung, stalking? You responded to one of my posts first and I replied, that's how discussion forums work Puzzled


OK. But stop arguing with me, about a point I'm not making. That's not a discussion.

Truce.
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@sev112, Chemmy waving Hestra gloves about? That's the SH equivalent of an exotic fan dance!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
sev112 wrote:
Very good again, but this time : WHO GAVE CHEMMY WHITE GLOVES - so that when she waves her hands about on EVERY syllable , it’s now visually painful , rather than just distracting

Good show though


I kept waiting for her to clean a cue ball, or re-spot the black.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
NickYoung wrote:
sev112 wrote:
Very good again, but this time : WHO GAVE CHEMMY WHITE GLOVES - so that when she waves her hands about on EVERY syllable , it’s now visually painful , rather than just distracting

Good show though


I kept waiting for her to clean a cue ball, or re-spot the black.


I thought they were goalkeeper gloves.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
P'tang, Yang, Kipperbang.

(Only the oldies will get that reference).
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
As impressive as the moves in the half-pipe is Ed Leigh/Tim Warwood's ability to describe them! Very different from what is essentially the same run again and again in downhill/slalom etc
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