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Panda vs Range Rover

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
[quote="valais2"],,,and if it works, I assume your wire-haired terrier doesn’t sit there calmly when it does. Unless it’s completely deaf.

Or uses ear protectors.

/quote]

Actually by the time this pic was taken he was completely deaf but that was due to age not noise pollution.

I do have to wear ear defenders when using the lorry. It has a straight through stainless steel exhaust with no silencer box or baffles. Sounds quite snarly. Can see the pipe in this pic.

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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
...snarly indeed.

And that’s impressive timber. Every weekend during the winter we extract about a ton of timber from a friend’s wood. Beech and ash mainly, some cherry, and use a 20 inch bar Stihl .. what the hell did you use for that huge thing which your truck impressively is carrying? One of those mad chainsaws which you see the Indonesian loggers use?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Should have taken the Scooby Smile


http://youtube.com/v/R3OF75w3Jgo?t=5
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Peter S wrote:
ropetow wrote:
If it has the Michelin Scorpion Zero 'all season' tyres that were supplied from the manufacturer as standard - then you can spin them on snow on the flat.
They are completely useless in Winter conditions. Stick some BF Goodrich ATAs on it - with the proper tyres and the onboard traction control then it will outperform the Panda. Not a fair comparison IMHO.

Thing is, the Panda doesn’t need another set of tyres or traction control to drive on tarmac. snowHead


Never removed the BF Goodrich ATAs in the summer - just kept them on - cant say i noticed increased wear in the summer - but then in a wet cool Scottish summer - its not surprising. I thought the deeper tread pattern on the ATAs offset any increased wear and also didnt see any increase in fuel consumption with them either.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I run BFG AT Ko2s on my Ranger. Greater road noise, reduced mpg, a bit sketchy when over half worn. Would I replace with same? Yep. Madeye-Smiley Look at Cooper STT 4 season. They're also good.
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@sequoiaborg, class.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As a permanent resident of South Devon, I would suggest that not only is a Range Rover incapable of going up a snowy hill, but they also are incapable of going in reverse. In truth I think that Range Rovers are a nice bit of kit it is the k**bs who drive them that is the problem. No self respecting local down here would own one since it is considered to be fair game to hold your ground to see if they can reverse
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Personally, I prefer the panda and would take a little front wheel drive with winter tyres or chains up the mountain any time - I would even back them with no chains and normal tyres in heavy snow as I have done when allowed to get away with not fitting the chains going up into resort - an old diesel Corsa of mine did Les Arcs on a tank and a half of gas each way, full to the brim with the kids cocooned in gear for one stay and I kept saying "oh, just one more fitting area" before making it to 1800 and the safety of the car park - I think the gendarmes were amazed as I passed them as the bigger cars all struggled.
I have lovely memories of driving a very old Fiat Panda with Greek number plates back from a backpacking stay all the way back from Corfu to Surrey with no tax or insurance in approx 1985, driving it straight to the local breakers and getting more for the parts than I had paid for the car. 2 of us bought the car because of its hammock back seat as we slept in it for 4 months as it was cheaper than a hotel or digs. That car told some tales.

However I can't speak of the Rangey experience as I have never had one - the nearest I have had is a Jeep Cherokee which was another car I loved
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When I was a kid growing up on Salisbury Plain, the farm I spent time on ranged across all the chalk valleys and hills around Pewsey, and the manager used Renault 4 vans for access and a Range Rover Mk1 for ‘best’ - with the Renault 4s taking everything with extraordinary speed and facility. In the ‘80s I used a small orange VW Beetle 1300 in the snow, regular tyres, and remember one icy hill in deep snow which I just pottered up, engine weight digging the rear tyres in, passing a long congregation of front wheel drive cars all at crazy angles, either sending up plumes of snow from spinning wheels, or balanced on the edge of the ditch by the side of the road. One was on its roof. But I think the moral of all of this is that a car is only as good as the driver/owner, whether that’s a small 4x4 or a stonking great big one. If the owner is silly enough to take a capable vehicle somewhere with the wrong tyres, then disaster is likely. And if an incompetent driver takes a capable vehicle somewhere, shod with the right tyres, but with no skill in piloting it, then disaster also is likely. As we have seen many times in the Alps.
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Best car I had was my old Ford Ka with winter tyres on it. Brilliant. Up and down snowy hills with no problems going past all the Chelsea tractors.
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Hurdy wrote:
Best car I had was my old Ford Ka with winter tyres on it. Brilliant. Up and down snowy hills with no problems going past all the Chelsea tractors.


I have to agree with you - as we both have observed the little fwd cars with winter tyres are great.
Anyone who has driven to The Alps has probably been "done" by a mark 2 Clio or similar on the bends up to resort
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We used to have a Mk II Panda which did only around 5k miles pa. when it needed new tyres I put a set of winters on and left them on permanently. Brilliant in the snow.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I am happy with an X3 on good winter tyres. Driven to Tignes in blizzard and no issues whatsoever
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
..that's right...good car, right tyres, competent driver = success; whether the vehicle is small or big. These are competent drivers. They will have winter tyres on because that's the law where they come from. It's a hoofing girt car, and going well...


http://youtube.com/v/_t9sdcIv0UI
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yellow Snow wrote:

I have lovely memories of driving a very old Fiat Panda with Greek number plates back from a backpacking stay all the way back from Corfu to Surrey with no tax or insurance


Sounds like BUS4DUB Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@davidof, you are Davina Goldballs and I claim my €10
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yoda wrote:
@davidof, you are Davina Goldballs and I claim my €10


Davina would want a bit more than a tenner, I bet.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I can’t remember what tyres the RR actually come with these days but they do tell you that you don’t need to change tyres except in exceptional circumstances. The electronics can make a huge difference (although I’m a great believer in having the right tyres for the job).

As for the RR driver ‘not being able to afford the right tyres’, I do have a degree of sympathy. A full set of decent tyres will set you back around £800. If you need a summer set, an off-road set (as I used to have) and then a proper winter set, it’s a major outlay - plus the change over costs. If you only travel to the mountains very occasionally it’s a very hard price to justify.
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FTZ ....and that’s what the dealer might say, but we have had plenty of experience of people in very up-market 4X4s absolutely stuck on the hill or car park ramp up in Montana, and causing chaos as a result. They may have gambled on ‘we only drive in the mountains occasionally and we think we can wing it’ but one drop in temp or fall of snow and they just become lethal. We saw one very foolish person on summers simply toboggan out-of-control into a Merc coming safely up the hill. The Merc driver was local and extremely pissed off. As I would have been, driving carefully up hill only to be barrelled into by someone ‘winging it’.

We chose a cheaper car (Yeti) so that we could also have full summer and winter wheelsets. We have seen some truly idiotic driving on the way to the Alps and on the challenging roads around the Valais, and it is not infrequently associated with hulking great 4X4s on the wrong tyres.

And on the post re driving without insurance; I was hit by someone whilst I was cycling in London - I was on a green light and they were on a red. He broke my back. I was glad they had insurance. It would have been extremely problematic if they had not.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@valais2, I agree about the tyres. My point was that decent all - season tyres and great electronics will get you a long way. It won’t necessarily solve all the problems but it will solve most of them. Personally, I wouldn’t want to take any car to the Alps without chains and, probably, winter tyres.
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DavidYacht wrote:
As a permanent resident of South Devon, I would suggest that not only is a Range Rover incapable of going up a snowy hill, but they also are incapable of going in reverse. In truth I think that Range Rovers are a nice bit of kit it is the k**bs who drive them that is the problem. No self respecting local down here would own one since it is considered to be fair game to hold your ground to see if they can reverse


To be honest, that rather displays something of a knobbish attitude. RRs are driven by all sorts. Rich and poor-ish. Great drivers and terrible. The idea that RR drivers are uniquely bad is just inverted snobbery.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I’ve got Scorpion Zero all season tyres on the Disco and they aren’t great this weather. Can’t beat a proper winter tyre.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
davidof wrote:
Yellow Snow wrote:

I have lovely memories of driving a very old Fiat Panda with Greek number plates back from a backpacking stay all the way back from Corfu to Surrey with no tax or insurance


Sounds like BUS4DUB Laughing


Nah you'd have to include the stash of gold bullion under the false floor for it to be the BUS4DUB wink
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I used to run a Ford Smax on Goodyear vector all seasons, all year round, my ex would leave the other mum's floundering around the school car park in their 4x4s as she would drive in & out without any problem when it was snowing. The looks she used to get were priceless, especially from the dads Very Happy
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What is a "school car park" ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
johnE wrote:
What is a "school car park" ?

It's what you get when you live in the butt end of beyond, there's plenty of space for schools to have car parks & sportsfields, and this was a primary school.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Another Panda


http://youtube.com/v/NQPNw7R2Zq0

Nifty little chap the panda is Very Happy
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@ski3,
Do you know why it has "SUZUKI" printed on the side?

Was that a rally or did he forget his gloves and COVID mask on a ski day?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ski3 wrote:
Another Panda


http://youtube.com/v/NQPNw7R2Zq0

Nifty little chap the panda is Very Happy


looks like me driving home in the snow the other night, only I wasn't doing it deliberately
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
DB wrote:
@ski3,
Do you know why it has "SUZUKI" printed on the side?

Was that a rally or did he forget his gloves and COVID mask on a ski day?


It's modified with the installation of a Suzuki motorcycle engine which is more or less a match in size, but approximately 3 times the power of original.

I'll go with forgotten mask theory Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Many years ago I came across the Mongol Rally while aboard a cross chanel ferry. This is a rally from England to, then, Ulan Bator . I beleive there was some restriction on the price you paid for the vehicle. About half the cars were Fiat Pandas.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ok if this is turning into a Fiat Panda worship thread I may as well tell this story about its origins. Which came from an industry insider and yet may be apocryphal. Of course there is the name: Panda. It has no connection with bamboo-eating quadrupeds. It's from Ampanda, 'the goddess of the rustics'. Really. The link with rust goes deeper. This is the alleged origin story. Fiat executive says 'You all know that the sub-standard steel from which we made the 131 means that they are all rusting rapidly and falling apart.' 'Of course we do'. 'Well at this rate we had better do something about the huge stockpile of spare parts we have for the 131'. 'It's fine, we are still making and selling the 131'. 'Yes, but soon they will all be dust'. 'OK what's the plan?'. 'Well. I have given Guigiaro in Italdesign two bottles of Primitivo, and in ten minutes he came up with a pencilled design based on a cake tin - we'll build that with half the steel of the 131 and use up all the old 131 parts on it.' 'Excellent - let's have lunch...hang on, what shall we call it?'. 'The Rustica'. 'You can't call it that after what's happened with the 131'. 'Ok - Panda - after the goddess of the rustics'. 'Brilliant..NOW let's have lunch'.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:


DavidYacht wrote:
As a permanent resident of South Devon, I would suggest that not only is a Range Rover incapable of going up a snowy hill, but they also are incapable of going in reverse. In truth I think that Range Rovers are a nice bit of kit it is the k**bs who drive them that is the problem. No self respecting local down here would own one since it is considered to be fair game to hold your ground to see if they can reverse


To be honest, that rather displays something of a knobbish attitude. RRs are driven by all sorts. Rich and poor-ish. Great drivers and terrible. The idea that RR drivers are uniquely bad is just inverted snobbery.


Yep, it was a cheap shot on my part ... RRs are great bits of kit, which a significant part of their market do not have the skills to make the most of
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DavidYacht wrote:
Quote:


DavidYacht wrote:
As a permanent resident of South Devon, I would suggest that not only is a Range Rover incapable of going up a snowy hill, but they also are incapable of going in reverse. In truth I think that Range Rovers are a nice bit of kit it is the k**bs who drive them that is the problem. No self respecting local down here would own one since it is considered to be fair game to hold your ground to see if they can reverse


To be honest, that rather displays something of a knobbish attitude. RRs are driven by all sorts. Rich and poor-ish. Great drivers and terrible. The idea that RR drivers are uniquely bad is just inverted snobbery.


Yep, it was a cheap shot on my part ... RRs are great bits of kit, which a significant part of their market do not have the skills to make the most of


That's a relief, I have to drive mine through Devon to get to Cornwall Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I had a Mk I Panda. It was 20 years old when I bought it for £200 from a friend. Most fun I’ve ever had on four wheels, other drivers would scatter as I approached... no doubt assuming I was uninsured and didn’t care (they were wrong on both counts), possibly as the red paint was rather faded.

It wasn’t rusty though. Killed it by not changing the oil at 6k miles, blocked the oil breather. Not an economic repair.
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I’ve always had a soft spot for Fiats and small revy cars. On whim I bought a mk1 Panda 4x4 on eBay a few years ago for about £300. It was slow, noisy and handled like a dog. I really wanted to like it, but it was poo-poo. Should have put a bike engine in it.
Should we start a best cheap car for skiing/snow thread?
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The 4x4 Panda was engineered by "Steyr Daimler Puch" an Austrian company that also manufactured things like this Haflinger (farmer's replacement for working horse of the same name)
http://youtube.com/v/MGv6KprygHA

I understand they also built the European issue of Jeep Cherokee to comply with local type approval measures etc. This being (as already mentioned) a very capable vehicle. There was a study some time ago naming this as one of the most environmentally efficient vehicles made in series production, it took into consideration the cost from conception through r&d and mostly living it's production life with almost no changes that called for additional activities. Coupled with long service life, it's toll on resources undercut all others representing cross a section of motoring.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@ski3,

Know of "Magna Steyr" (formaly "Steyr Daimler Puch") but didn't know they engineered the Panda 4x4.

English link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr-Daimler-Puch

German link with more pics
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_Daimler_Puch


They have also built 4x4 Jag's and BMW's
https://industriemagazin.at/a/magna-steyr-linien-fuer-bmw-und-jaguar-wieder-in-vollbetrieb

https://industriemagazin.at/a/magna-steyr-schon-mehr-als-100000-elektro-jaguar-gefertigt
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"
@ski3,

Know of "Magna Steyr" (formaly "Steyr Daimler Puch") but didn't know they engineered the Panda 4x4."

Yes, the MK1 even had the company's logo in a badge on the tail gate.

I last saw a Haflinger in Switzerland, valley D'Anniviers driving with a bunch of kids sitting on hay in the load bed, and having a brilliant time.
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They did the pinzgauer too - the army here use them. Would really like one to turn into a camper to use for harassing the wildlife in comfort.

When I was car shopping a couple of weeks ago, one of the dealers I went to had a few ex Singapore army unimogs on the lot. Three diff locks, flat bed deck, canvas roof, totally agricultural but they were in good nick and $30k. I was a bit tempted but the thought of getting up to a ski field in winter basically driving a tent tractor in minus 10 for 2 hours sent me off to buy a forester Happy. Very cool trucks though.
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