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Covid restrictions on travelling to europe after jan1st

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

it may be better for us all if we limited travel, even if that is gutting for skiers


Most sensible thing said! Mountains will still be there next year. One year without skiing is not going to hurt. Vaccination is under way so let's limit unnecessary infections. Don't know that lifts will even be spinning anyway. Once covid is over normal travel will resume.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My trip got cancelled last year so two years for me.
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boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

it may be better for us all if we limited travel, even if that is gutting for skiers


Most sensible thing said! Mountains will still be there next year. One year without skiing is not going to hurt. Vaccination is under way so let's limit unnecessary infections. Don't know that lifts will even be spinning anyway. Once covid is over normal travel will resume.


Too true! I'm resigned to missing this season.

If I get a vaccine in time, I might consider a last-minute deal.

I reckon the EU might let me in to spend my money then! wink
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I live in the North of Ireland, and hold an Irish passport. So technically still an EU citizen. Hoping that will allow us to transit from Geneva to Val Thorens in March, provided its open by then due to covid. Don't know how this whole thing will affect our flights from Belfast.
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colinstone wrote:
2 points -

1. for example the French rules for 3rd countries:

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/
And UK will be in para 2

2. And a comment elsewhere that travel insurance premiums will rise to cover most or all of the current £156m overseas health care costs of travellers, which I presume but not stated, is the EHIC cost to UK.

I'm planning to go to my boat in N France on 26 Dec, then rented Swiss apartment 31 Dec till at least mid March. And I have an application in for French Carte de Sejour, otherwise it will be a French long term visa.

I definitely don't want to be in UK in January. If we thought bare shelves in lockdown was bad, January will be terrible.
All those non thinking Brexiteers will suddenly find quite severe food inflation, 10% car tariffs taking us back to the old 10% car tax, etc etc.
And even Ratcliffe/Ineos have cut and run to build the Grenadier car in France instead of Bridgend.


But, in your link, I think Paragraph 1 would apply to the UK ?

"...If you are arriving from a country on the list below, you can enter metropolitan France without any COVID-19 restrictions.

Member States of the European Union, Andorra, Australia, the Holy See, Iceland, Japan, Liechtenstein, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Rwanda, San Marino, South Korea, Singapore, Switzerland, Thailand and the United Kingdom..." (last updated 28 Nov)
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Yes, you can enter France. But my understanding is that currently, you can't then travel onwards, due to the current French internal travel restrictions, for which a ski holiday is not an exception. Or am I wrong? Back in August and September, when we drove through France to get to Switzerland, and then back again, yes, being in transit was OK, but not this time 'round. Plus now, we wouldn't be covered by our travel insurance either, unlike then. Or so I thought.
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@LaForet, Correct - current restrictions prevent travel within France except for certain categories

https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/coronavirus-covid-19
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

it may be better for us all if we limited travel, even if that is gutting for skiers


Most sensible thing said! Mountains will still be there next year. One year without skiing is not going to hurt. Vaccination is under way so let's limit unnecessary infections. Don't know that lifts will even be spinning anyway. Once covid is over normal travel will resume.


If you consider yourself or persons close to you at risk of infection and subsequent harm, I agree with you. Study the information available and take appropriate action.

However, "once COVID is over normal travel will resume." is an oversimplification. Leaving aside the inevitable outcome that COVID-19 will become endemic in the population, the travel market has collapsed. Not shrunk, not reduced, but collapsed. As a consequence of bookings evaporating, the travel industry has virtually no cashflow. Now, as much as Rishi would like us to believe that the furlough scheme and biz support will enable us to just reopen as if nothing had happened, this is simply not possible. You can't just magic up full order books like you can money (Youtube Clarke and Dawe on quantitative easing). Moreover, there is very limited collateral to lend against to whilst consumer confidence regrows (slowly), what's a bank going to do with a 737 seized from Easyjet? If it can't fly for want of bookings, it's worthless. As for flight/holiday vouchers, those are a delaying exercise. It may be that one wishes to use a voucher, but the company who issued it makes a big loss on the holiday because prices have gone up in the meantime. Those schemes could see teetering companies topple.

TLDR: Until customers feel confident enough to prebook a year ahead, and the volume of those prebookings shows sustained growth, normal travel will not resume, in my opinion. So those of us who have an acceptable balance of risk should consider helping out by going places. If that excludes the Alps and skiing for you, do something local.
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LaForet wrote:
Yes, you can enter France. But my understanding is that currently, you can't then travel onwards, due to the current French internal travel restrictions, for which a ski holiday is not an exception. Or am I wrong? Back in August and September, when we drove through France to get to Switzerland, and then back again, yes, being in transit was OK, but not this time 'round. Plus now, we wouldn't be covered by our travel insurance either, unlike then. Or so I thought.


It seems that in France there were restrictions even for local residents to go out. Although I do not closely follow each country and the situation may have changed. But according to the latest statistics that I saw, there were huge numbers of cases.
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Re Albob comments.

However, re cars - only 10% tax on EU produced cars - not UK produced cars or indeed Japanese cars with whom we have a trade treaty but you may be wedded to your beamer, merc or VW but the rest of us have a choice of acquisition.

As I understand it the main reason why the grenadier is being produced in France is that there was a ready made factory being disposed of by Mercedes there. I suspect the costs of starting and tooling a factory from scratch are quite high along with the teething problems so I would be very tempted to take such an action as well. No doubt a few "level playing field" grants involved too but I am sure there would have been in Wales as well
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I generally agree, but:

Headengel2020 wrote:
what's a bank going to do with a 737 seized from Easyjet?


Sack the bailiffs and return the 737 to Ryanair with an apology? Easyjet runs Airbus only... wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
ousekjarr wrote:
I generally agree, but:

Headengel2020 wrote:
what's a bank going to do with a 737 seized from Easyjet?


Sack the bailiffs and return the 737 to Ryanair with an apology? Easyjet runs Airbus only... wink


That made me chuckle. I'm glad I haven't come to power yet.

Imagine, a bank apologizing to Ryanair...
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I can only see this being a bargaining chip in the ongoing Brexit negotiations really. Don't see them sticking with it!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Someone has it sussed Happy
https://www.facebook.com/jerryoftheday/videos/735078264112523
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

However, "once COVID is over normal travel will resume." is an oversimplification


It will resume. Will prices be a little higher next year - probably but let's wait and see. Am I worried about companies going out of business? Of course it is terrible for staff, but if there's money to be made replacement companies will pop up quickly enough.

If the British people actually stuck to the rules and minimised unnecessary travel our covid rate would be lower and this wouldn't be an issue. We would be granted access like South Korea, New Zealand etc.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
boarder2020 wrote:
.. If the British people actually stuck to the rules and minimised unnecessary travel our covid rate would be lower ...
<laughs> Perhaps if their PM had not made such a show of shaking hands with Covid victims and generally f-ed up the country's response it may have vaguely helped.
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Pastorius wrote:
I can only see this being a bargaining chip in the ongoing Brexit negotiations really. Don't see them sticking with it!


This has nothing to do with the Brexit negotiations - unless you think the EUs ban on non-essential travel from the Belarus (just another 3rd nation with a direct EU border who aren't on the EUs epidemiologcally safe countries list) under the guise of stopping the spread of Covid is part of some complex master plan to get the UK to offer trade deal concessions to the EU?

1. At the end of the year the transition previous ends and we become a full 3rd nation, so all 3rd nation rules apply to the UK just as they do to the US/Egypt/Russia/Fiji/etc, including the EU non-essential travel ban recommendation for 3rd countries not on the ESC list. The UK's failure to appear on that list is NOT down to Brexit, nor is it down to "the EU trying to publish the UK for Brexit", it's quite simple down to "the UK making a complete clusterfuck of handling the Covid pandemic". If you have one of the highest infection rates in the world for an infection you don't make it on to the list of countries with the lowest infection rates in the world.

2. The UK's trade negotations are with the EU, while this and the ESC list are only EU recommendations made to help simplify rules across the EU, so minimising confusion and helping maximise compliance and effectiveness. BUT the EU is not responsible for each member state's non-trade external foreign policy, so member states are free to do anything from excluding all 3rd nations, so going beyond the EU recommendations, through to permitting all 3rd nations.

Most countries have decided to follow the EU recommendations, not because "they were forced to" but because it just makes sense and everyone's lives easier - if everyone has the same external border rules you don't have to worry about internal borders, the whole point of the schengen area in fact. If a country decided to permit other 3rd nations that is their choice...but at a guess they also assume responsibility for ensuring visitors from those 3rd nations don't cross any borders into other EU countries who DON'T have that 3rd country on their permitted list.


Quite simply this is down to people trying to stop a virus spreading, infecting and killing people. I'm sure there are many in the EU would would have loved to 'lock out' the UK (and France, Spain and Italy) before now, but haven't been able to as we are currently covered by the fundimental EU right to freedom of movement. That ends of the UK at the end of the year, and with high infection rates the UK is destined for the 'excluded' list - unless the voices of the economists are permitted to shout down those of the scientists.
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Oh man we're so Be Nice please!. Thanks ladies' bottoms like Mr.Egg. Be Nice please! you you Be Nice please! pricks.
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Minion1980 wrote:
Oh man we're so . Thanks ladies' bottoms like Mr.Egg. you you pricks.


Don't hold back now Toofy Grin
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Minion1980 wrote:
Oh man we're so . Thanks ladies' bottoms like Mr.Egg. you you pricks.


Ohh a keyboard warrior
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For US citizens - owning a real estate property in any EU country does not give you exemption to entry restrictions in place... unless one has legal permanent residency in that country.

Now, if that property is worth more than 500000 Euros, it is possible to obtain residency in some EU countries (Golden Visa).
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Excellent summary @Mjit. The reality of UK becoming a third country, combined with these Covid measures will scupper skiing for UK citizens this winter.

The idea that the tourist industry will somehow force some member states to ignore their scientists on the pandemic is even more absurd than the idea that German car makers and Italian Prosecco producers would force the EU to give the UK a trade deal.
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Quote:

I live in the North of Ireland, and hold an Irish passport. So technically still an EU citizen. Hoping that will allow us to transit from Geneva to Val Thorens in March, provided its open by then due to covid. Don't know how this whole thing will affect our flights from Belfast.

Doubtful. As I understand it, EU citizens will be able to enter France from the UK but only in order to travel to their country of citizenship (or for work or other non-holiday exemptions). Could be a bit of a schelp going via Geneva just to get back to Ireland.

If anyone knows different, keen to hear. Have a vested interest by way of holding dual citizenship and being keen to ski this winter if I can (but not prepared to take silly risks in order to do so, ie if the numbers keep going the wrong way...).
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Serbia is open ...

The biggest and most popular resort in Serbia is small comparing it to anything in the Alps but modern lift system and great value ...

Kopaonik ...

Just saying ...

OTOH, we keep forgetting that there is a very good reason to shut the ski centers this winter. If skiing is your priority, if there is will- there is a way !!!
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More international travel restrictions. Greta will be happy.
On a more serious note, perhaps 2021 will be the year to await inoculation, save some cash, & ski in New Zealand and/or South America. wink
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@bobski62, you are conflating two issues. EU citizens have freedom of movement anywhere within the EEA & Switzerland (sadly UK citizens will no longer have this) country of residence is not relevant. Currently many countries have specific restrictions which are related to the virus, many of which are related to tourist activities. At some point those restrictions will be reduced and then disappear altogether. Impossible to say when that point will be but with the introduction of the vaccine and possibly other factors a couple of months time is a reasonable guess (you can come up with shorter and longer time frames). At that point any EU citizen (which clearly includes anyone with an Irish passport) will be able to travel. How soon that will apply to UK citizens is unknown, down to individual countries health policies and also the size of their tourist industries. At a guess (which could be wildly wrong) I would say Spain and Austria will be amongst the first to let UK citizens in again.
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Android2000 wrote:
Excellent summary @Mjit. The reality of UK becoming a third country, combined with these Covid measures will scupper skiing for UK citizens this winter.

The idea that the tourist industry will somehow force some member states to ignore their scientists on the pandemic is even more absurd than the idea that German car makers and Italian Prosecco producers would force the EU to give the UK a trade deal.


Finland do not give automatic right to other EU citizens living in Schengen to travel to Finland due to Covid.
Some EU Countries mean UK Citizens have to quarantine on arrival or take a test or what any other measures that country decide are necessary.
Australia is a 3rd country & lots of EU countries area allowing Australians to travel freely.. BECAUSE AUSTRALIA HAS LOW INFECTION RATES
USA Citizens can travel to Croatia.
Nobody can travel into Hungry.
So apart from the EU ECDC Traffic Light system, countries have the option to also introduce their own rules.

As for tourism, I am sure lots of operators would want to welcome tourists back, but I bet there is also a lot who think there should be restrictions - especially from countries with high infection rates. I also bet people in those towns/villages who do not work in the tourism sector think you should all stay at home.

It's COVID that is going to stop travel
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Kenzie wrote:
More international travel restrictions. Greta will be happy.

I would love to see her meltdown when she catches on that it will just mean people travelling further.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Daleskier wrote:


Not having a go a you personally really but you’ve just articulated exactly why so many less well off people voted for it. Advertising how wealthy you are is so neuveu riche. Maybe you should stay here and use you resources to help feed starving brexiteers


Thanks. But my personal arrangements, or anyone else's, had nothing to do with BREXIT voting. Don't recall chattel/property owners being mentioned in the Leave campaign. People decided they wanted to take back control and sovereignty. And so that is what we are now getting, complete with increased trading costs for a variety of reasons.
Plus seeing as you have a FR location it is "nouveau riche"!!


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 11-12-20 13:21; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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France has internal travel restrictions of only travel within a single department. Yesterday an announcement that this is due to be lifted 15 Dec.

>only 10% tax on EU produced cars - not UK produced cars.
Don't forget the tariffs applied to components which are sourced in EU or criss cross the Channel during production. Eg I recall Mini crankshafts. EU have already said that there will be no exemption for most/all components. EV car batteries??

>Grenadier
Was to be built in recently closed - last Dec - Ford factory. But market access was also a significant reason.
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I thought about the Brexit thread for this one but it will be lost in the noise. But there is more ski holiday discussion here.

If going to EU after jan1st be careful with Insurance if you take more than one drug for a condition. EG If you have mild asthma and take antihistamines and an inhaler, some insurance may be invalid. If you take just 1 for 12 months on a prescription then you will be okay. I encountered that last year with the Asda ski insurance.

Fortunately I didn't get my antihistamines on prescription (I just bought when I ever neared them) so was okay.
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Mr.Egg wrote:
Kenzie wrote:
More international travel restrictions. Greta will be happy.

I would love to see her meltdown when she catches on that it will just mean people travelling further.


She's probably much more interested in the facts of the case than some random boomer's guesswork.

As a result of Covid 2020 has seen the largest drop in CO2 emissions since WW2 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55261902 / https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/12/3269/2020/). Yes, much of that will be reversed as the world comes out the other side but critically some of it will be maintained - in the developed world the whole idea of all office staff commuting to and from a central office location every day (and their resulting CO2 emissions) are over and won't be coming back. Some people will still have travel in every day and some will travel in part of the week, but the 'everyone, every day' model is dead (though not out of any corporate commitment to the environment, more realisation of how businesses can save by reducing office floor space).
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Mjit wrote:
Pastorius wrote:
I can only see this being a bargaining chip in the ongoing Brexit negotiations really. Don't see them sticking with it!


This has nothing to do with the Brexit negotiations - unless you think the EUs ban on non-essential travel from the Belarus (just another 3rd nation with a direct EU border who aren't on the EUs epidemiologcally safe countries list) under the guise of stopping the spread of Covid is part of some complex master plan to get the UK to offer trade deal concessions to the EU?

1. At the end of the year the transition previous ends and we become a full 3rd nation, so all 3rd nation rules apply to the UK just as they do to the US/Egypt/Russia/Fiji/etc, including the EU non-essential travel ban recommendation for 3rd countries not on the ESC list. The UK's failure to appear on that list is NOT down to Brexit, nor is it down to "the EU trying to publish the UK for Brexit", it's quite simple down to "the UK making a complete clusterfuck of handling the Covid pandemic". If you have one of the highest infection rates in the world for an infection you don't make it on to the list of countries with the lowest infection rates in the world.

2. The UK's trade negotations are with the EU, while this and the ESC list are only EU recommendations made to help simplify rules across the EU, so minimising confusion and helping maximise compliance and effectiveness. BUT the EU is not responsible for each member state's non-trade external foreign policy, so member states are free to do anything from excluding all 3rd nations, so going beyond the EU recommendations, through to permitting all 3rd nations.

Most countries have decided to follow the EU recommendations, not because "they were forced to" but because it just makes sense and everyone's lives easier - if everyone has the same external border rules you don't have to worry about internal borders, the whole point of the schengen area in fact. If a country decided to permit other 3rd nations that is their choice...but at a guess they also assume responsibility for ensuring visitors from those 3rd nations don't cross any borders into other EU countries who DON'T have that 3rd country on their permitted list.


Quite simply this is down to people trying to stop a virus spreading, infecting and killing people. I'm sure there are many in the EU would would have loved to 'lock out' the UK (and France, Spain and Italy) before now, but haven't been able to as we are currently covered by the fundimental EU right to freedom of movement. That ends of the UK at the end of the year, and with high infection rates the UK is destined for the 'excluded' list - unless the voices of the economists are permitted to shout down those of the scientists.


You make some excellent points which I had not considered. It is probably more complicated than I had assumed and I didn't consider the external border consistency meaning inter-EU country travel was possible with fewer restrictions.

That said, I wouldn't raise my eyebrows if all of a sudden the UK gets put on some kind of special list in order to secure concessions. It would be just like us to take the short term gain for the EU's long term gain
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Mjit wrote:
in the developed world the whole idea of all office staff commuting to and from a central office location every day (and their resulting CO2 emissions) are over and won't be coming back.


If you count France as the developed world they'll have people commuting and back in the office as soon as they can. The roads around here are chokka even during the semi lockdown.

Maybe in the anglo-saxon world WFH will be the norm - although probably a lot of those jobs will be outsourced.
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colinstone wrote:

Was to be built in recently closed - last Dec - Ford factory. But market access was also a significant reason.


The ford factory built engines, not cars. It worked out cheaper to build a new factory next to the ford plant (but still within the grounds) than to retrofit it.
£1/2bn was the cost.
UK Gov & Welsh Gov could only offer limited amount of aid. Due to State Aid rules.

Portugal also missed out btw

So instead they opted to go to an old Daimler plant that had produced cars. Cost to renovate a lot cheaper. Maybe he had EU funds as a sweetener as well.
Who knows.
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Hells Bells wrote:
So that's us fecked for the rest of the winter. Devastated. I have a home I can't even visit Sad


Marry an Irish man very quickly wink
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@genepi, my sister is married to one, but I'm not sure he'd be up for it. Laughing Laughing
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Update on France:

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/France-lockdown-to-end-December-15-20-00-curfew-to-start

Key points:

A curfew will come into effect from December 15, replacing the lockdown.
The curfew will be from 20:00 until 06:00, instead of beginning at 21:00 as previously planned. Mr Castex said, “It will be strictly controlled with limited possibilities for exemption".
End of exemption certificates (attestations de déplacement) during the day from December 15. They will still be required for authorised outings between 20:00 to 06:00
There will be no exemption to the curfew on December 31 as had previously been stated. There will only be an exemption on December 24
Cinemas, theatres, museums, casinos will not reopen on December 15 as planned. The opening has been pushed back three weeks to January 7, 2021.
Inter-regional travel will again be allowed from December 15, as planned.
There will be no change to the current rules on places of worship
There will be stricter police checks from now, France’s interior minister has stated. Since the beginning of the second lockdown, 2,924,775 police checks have been undertaken.

And:

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/
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If that's what it takes to bring the number of cases down, then I'm all for it.

Can you imagine the public reaction if such restrictions were even considered for the UK?
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brianatab wrote:
If that's what it takes to bring the number of cases down, then I'm all for it.

Can you imagine the public reaction if such restrictions were even considered for the England?


Fixed it for you, as its coming to Wales very soon.
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