 Poster: A snowHead
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| extremerob wrote: |
I am starting to wonder if I missing something here, what is preventing the larger operators from establishing an entity in Europe and from employing European staff - Spanish, Polish, Czechs, Slovenians would likely be cheaper than Brits and they to also want to be seasonaires. So the sensational statement that chalet-holidays will only be for the "Super-wealthy" is a load of crap as I see it. Worst case is you end up having a managing agency providing EU seaosnaire staff to British T/O's, might be slightly more expensive but there are ways around it.
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Suspect the chalet business model with English staff worked because English people in general prefer to be served by native English Speakers and many English go skiing.
There are probably far more Brits than Spanish, Polish, Czechs, Slovenians etc skiing in the European Resorts (esp- French and Austrian resorts). The English also probably earn more (esp London workers) and so can afford more, for them a skiing holiday is a smaller percentage of their salary. Add in the employment benefits that UK chalet operations were able to use and the business case stood up. Most of these advanatges aren't there for the other European countries you mentioned. Other countries tend not to use chalets so it could well be that the chalet business model dies out.
For many of the countries you mentioned the reverse is true, they can only be pulled into Austria in large numbers using cheap buses and heavily discounted day passes. (sometimes well below what the Austrians themselves pay for a day pass)
I can see the scandi's taking over from the British seasonaires as they tend to speak very good English.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 23-11-20 15:55; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| davidof wrote: |
| .......Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave....... |
In ye olden days of Fleet St when I was heading up the commercial side (selling space) of a newspaper, recruitment was a key part and more often than not someone who had done a ski season always had far more going for them than someone who hadn't as the business back then was very much people orientated and getting on with the buyers in ad agencies was what it was all about (long lunches etc), and if that meant getting trashed to get the contract then they were the skills that they had 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Us voted leave knew all this
Yet you people with whom I respectfully disagree say we wanted cakeism
EU jobs are not for british workers
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dunc999 wrote: |
It's a shame, but it's not new news surely we have known about it coming all year?
My youngest daughter is doing her A-levels this year and it's all she's wanted to do for years either before or after uni to do a season, so I feel sorry for her, but she's pretty determined and I'm sure we will find a way to make it happen. |
Having both worked a season (Meribel) and ski bummed four (Tignes) I'd recommend she/you save up & let her bum a season (warning - this is addictive). It is more expensive than having a job, but you (in my experience) miss out on anything positive that comes from working, and you are able to get the time in on the mountain - especially when there is fresh snow to track out ( because it ALWAYS seems to snow when work means you can't get up the mountain!).
One thing to consider, with British TOs taking fewer staff out to resorts season accommodation will presumably be more freely available, and hence cheaper than before.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Kenzie, But the 90 day limit makes seasonal renting less straight forward.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
For one, by having a 90 day holiday, your daughter will miss out on some of the valuable skills and experience which come from working abroad. Not to mention the social aspect that being in employment provides. I'm sorry, but this is one brexit turd you cannot polish! |
Well at least she won't come back with chalet girl arse at the end of the season.
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free. |
You make a valid point about chalet ar_se...however on the second point, you have ever so slightly exaggerated the plight of the seasonnaire. Yes there are some negatives which come with the jobs but they provide excellent practical work experience and transferable skills which will help them in pursuit of other careers. e.g. Dealing with the worst types of Karen you could come across. Also, there are other jobs which are actually great fun. I'd rather do a season working in a bar than be a ski bum. There are some perks which money cannot buy.
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| DB wrote: |
| extremerob wrote: |
I am starting to wonder if I missing something here, what is preventing the larger operators from establishing an entity in Europe and from employing European staff - Spanish, Polish, Czechs, Slovenians would likely be cheaper than Brits and they to also want to be seasonaires. So the sensational statement that chalet-holidays will only be for the "Super-wealthy" is a load of crap as I see it. Worst case is you end up having a managing agency providing EU seaosnaire staff to British T/O's, might be slightly more expensive but there are ways around it.
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Suspect the chalet business model with English staff worked because English people in general prefer to be served by native English Speakers and many English go skiing.
There are probably far more Brits than Spanish, Polish, Czechs, Slovenians etc skiing in the European Resorts (esp- French and Austrian resorts). The English also probably earn more (esp London workers) and so can afford more, for them a skiing holiday is a smaller percentage of their salary. Add in the employment benefits that UK chalet operations were able to use and the business case stood up. Most of these advanatges aren't there for the other European countries you mentioned. Other countries tend not to use chalets so it could well be that the chalet business model dies out.
For many of the countries you mentioned the reverse is true, they can only be pulled into Austria in large numbers using cheap buses and heavily discounted day passes. (sometimes well below what the Austrians themselves pay for a day pass)
I can see the scandi's taking over from the British seasonaires as they tend to speak very good English. |
To be clear I was not implying that you increase sales to other EU countries, I was saying you employ EU staff at the same or lower wages than you pay for the British seasonaire. I know it is possible as the hotel industry in Cyprus do it during the summer tourism season, they employ english speaking Eastern Europeans on low pay during summer, offering them free accommodation and food.
I personally do not understand how the majority of clients would have an issue with a non-native English speaking chalet host, without admitting they were racist, or maybe thats part of the reason why I don't understand Brexit - there certainly is a point where the economics of it work where you can employ native english speakers - and these are likely the "luxury" chalets and the clientele at this point matter more.
What is a certain is that the demand from the UK public is not going to go away, I highly doubt Suzy and Tony from Salford (fictional example) who paid £800 a head for an all in ski trip are not going to ever go skiing again to the alps because the chalet host had an accent. There will be demand and businesses will adapt to serve the market at all price points, I would not be surprised to see European Tour Operators stating/increasing their offering of services locally in the UK market post Brexit.
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| extremerob wrote: |
I am starting to wonder if I missing something here, what is preventing the larger operators from establishing an entity in Europe and from employing European staff - Spanish, Polish, Czechs, Slovenians would likely be cheaper than Brits and they to also want to be seasonaires. |
What you're missing is that it's illegal to pay people below the minimum wage.
People from all these nations should all be paid at or above the minimum wage, which in France based on 40 hours per week (35 @ EUR 10.15ph + 5@ 12.7ph) including cotisations, but not including holiday pay, accommodation, food, travel, lift passes, mandatory training tax, medecin de travail etc ... is 2800 per month.
If you add in accommodation and food ( on which you also pay 67% cotisations, as it's a benefit in kind), its around 3100 per month. ( plus obviously the cost of the food and accommodation  )
Unless in a management function it's rare to see more than this for a CDD.
So it's no cheaper whoever you hire.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@WindOfChange, I think you'll find that the likes Of Club Med ship Morrocans in.
From an Agent DE LA P.A.F. Police de l'Air et des Frontières
Vol en provenance de Casablanca :
128 Marocains avec chacun un visa en règle sur le passeport et contrat de 5 mois de travail signé par une représentante du groupe CLUB MED, de 1477,99 EUR à 1530,47 EUR brut par mois
Spécialité : cuisinier ou serveur - nourris logés blanchis
lieu de travail : les 2 Alpes -Avoriaz - Chamonix - Tignes - Vol aller/retour payé par l'employeur.
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| Quote: |
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free
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Silly comparison. The chalet boys and girls queued up for the opportunity of a working winter when they could confidently expect to do more skiing - and probably more drinking - than any low paid workers back home could expect to do, whilst breaking even financially. Many of them will have learnt to work harder than they had ever done in their previously sheltered and priveleged lives, and how to work in a team. Not to be sniffed at.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free
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Silly comparison. The chalet boys and girls queued up for the opportunity of a working winter when they could confidently expect to do more skiing - and probably more drinking - than any low paid workers back home could expect to do, whilst breaking even financially. Many of them will have learnt to work harder than they had ever done in their previously sheltered and priveleged lives, and how to work in a team. Not to be sniffed at. |
Just having to WORK at all, on stretch of several months, is significant!
There's no arguing this is a negative. Not just for British youth who lose the opportunity to "work" in a foreign country. Equally, there must be non-Brit's youth who miss out in Britain, at however low wage.
On the other hand, the chalet business will very likely continue. As long as there's demand, there will be business to supply it, even if it's at a slightly higher price point. And as others had repeatedly pointed out, youngsters can still have their gap year on the continent. They just have to jump through a few extra hoops starting 2021. Much the same way of the older generation of seasonaires did before the creation of EU (or those who choose to work in Canada/US).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| extremerob wrote: |
To be clear I was not implying that you increase sales to other EU countries, I was saying you employ EU staff at the same or lower wages than you pay for the British seasonaire. I know it is possible as the hotel industry in Cyprus do it during the summer tourism season, they employ english speaking Eastern Europeans on low pay during summer, offering them free accommodation and food.
I personally do not understand how the majority of clients would have an issue with a non-native English speaking chalet host, without admitting they were racist, or maybe thats part of the reason why I don't understand Brexit - there certainly is a point where the economics of it work where you can employ native english speakers - and these are likely the "luxury" chalets and the clientele at this point matter more.
What is a certain is that the demand from the UK public is not going to go away, I highly doubt Suzy and Tony from Salford (fictional example) who paid £800 a head for an all in ski trip are not going to ever go skiing again to the alps because the chalet host had an accent. There will be demand and businesses will adapt to serve the market at all price points, I would not be surprised to see European Tour Operators stating/increasing their offering of services locally in the UK market post Brexit. |
As @WindOfChange explains you can't get the staff cheaper from other european countries.
Secondly I suspect what's in it for the people runing the chalet companies is not so much the profit from the holidays but the property portfolio they are building up - even if it's just paying for their own home that they will retire to in the mountains later.
It's difficult to buy property in certain ski resorts, especially if you are not a year round resident. Suspect if you are someone (from the UK) who will bring in many well paying guests your property development schemes are 'tolerated'. I'm not talking Suzy and Tony from Salford but hoo-ray Henry and his mates from Kensington who rent the whole 12 bed chalet for 30 grand a week. It's not racist it's just that when people book a holiday/holiday service they generally prefer to deal with someone that speaks their native tongue (whether they are travel agents, chalet companies, ski guides or ski instructors). If the price goes up and the staff are non-native speakers Henry could well turn to booking.com instead.
It's no wonder some chalet companies have started to go bust.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 23-11-20 17:14; edited 2 times in total
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Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway.
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You know it makes sense.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
For one, by having a 90 day holiday, your daughter will miss out on some of the valuable skills and experience which come from working abroad. Not to mention the social aspect that being in employment provides. I'm sorry, but this is one brexit turd you cannot polish! |
Well at least she won't come back with chalet girl arse at the end of the season.
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free. |
Organization, discipline, working to a tight budget, dealing with (difficult) customers, negotiation skills, local language skills, working through a hangover etc etc
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Yoda wrote: |
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Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
Perhaps we should ban homebrew beer.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
My vote is for me.
I vote for me.
My vote is not for you, so why should I care.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
For one, by having a 90 day holiday, your daughter will miss out on some of the valuable skills and experience which come from working abroad. Not to mention the social aspect that being in employment provides. I'm sorry, but this is one brexit turd you cannot polish! |
Well at least she won't come back with chalet girl arse at the end of the season.
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free. |
Organization, discipline, working to a tight budget, dealing with (difficult) customers, negotiation skills, local language skills, working through a hangover etc etc |
^ forget the serious stuff : you get to drink beer and ski 5 days a week.
no one got rich doing a season - but if your 19 years old and want to ski 100 days in a winter its an easy & fun option
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
My vote is for me.
I vote for me.
My vote is not for you, so why should I care. |
Absolutely textbook
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Ryunis wrote: |
For one, by having a 90 day holiday, your daughter will miss out on some of the valuable skills and experience which come from working abroad. Not to mention the social aspect that being in employment provides. I'm sorry, but this is one brexit turd you cannot polish! |
Well at least she won't come back with chalet girl arse at the end of the season.
Hard to think what skills they pick up as a TO or chalet slave though but I guess you are in the camp that the African slave trade was a wonderful free opportunity for people to immigrate the Land of the Free. |
Organization, discipline, working to a tight budget, dealing with (difficult) customers, negotiation skills, local language skills, working through a hangover etc etc |
^ forget the serious stuff : you get to drink beer and ski 5 days a week.
no one got rich doing a season - but if your 19 years old and want to ski 100 days in a winter its an easy & fun option |
Yep but you can get that ski bumming without the need to do any work. Personally I enjoyed having a rewarding job (ski rep) whilst still being able to do lots of skiing and socializing. Also made a few mates for life from the experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DB wrote: |
| I'm not talking Suzy and Tony from Salford but hoo-ray Henry and his mates from Kensington who rent the whole 12 bed chalet for 30 grand a week. |
This made me chuckle - I do feel that hoo-ray Henry is not going to be too bothered if his 12 bed chalet is now £32k a week to cover the costs of paying the staff inline with regulations - so don't see the loss of this market
| Weathercam wrote: |
@WindOfChange, I think you'll find that the likes Of Club Med ship Morrocans in.
From an Agent DE LA P.A.F. Police de l'Air et des Frontières
Vol en provenance de Casablanca :
128 Marocains avec chacun un visa en règle sur le passeport et contrat de 5 mois de travail signé par une représentante du groupe CLUB MED, de 1477,99 EUR à 1530,47 EUR brut par mois
Spécialité : cuisinier ou serveur - nourris logés blanchis
lieu de travail : les 2 Alpes -Avoriaz - Chamonix - Tignes - Vol aller/retour payé par l'employeur. |
exactly it can be done - very good snip of just that part of the article and omitting the questionable but amusing ending
http://pratclif.com/coup_de_gueule_dun_agent_de_la_p_a_f_.htm#:~:text=%2D%20Vol%20en%20provenance%20de%20Casablanca,de%20travail%20%3A%20les%202%20Alpes%20%2D
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abc wrote: |
... There's no arguing this is a negative.
...
On the other hand, the chalet business will very likely continue. As long as there's demand, there will be business to supply it, even if it's at a slightly higher price point. ... |
No doubt. The UK kids who lose out can take it up with their parents and grand parents I guess; perhaps they will have mostly been too young to vote in 2016 themselves.
However there isn't really a shortage of workers in the EU as they have "freedom of movement",
so it should be easy to replace resources there with people from eastern Europe at a lower cost.
Under years of economic growth following EU accession skiing in the UK went from a sport for a very small number of
rich people to something anyone could expect to participate in. We shall need to see how the massive self-inflicted GDP hit
from brexit affects that.
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We stayed in various (low end) chalets in the olden days, and always enjoyed them and appreciated the efforts of the staff. More recently I've had very little contact with them, of course, but I do remember enjoying watching a gaggle of chalet workers with a slew of heavily stacked trollies in the big supermarket in Sallanches. Their good natured banter - and evident hard work - impressed me. If my daughter had been amongst them, I'd have been proud of her.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| extremerob wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| I'm not talking Suzy and Tony from Salford but hoo-ray Henry and his mates from Kensington who rent the whole 12 bed chalet for 30 grand a week. |
This made me chuckle - I do feel that hoo-ray Henry is not going to be too bothered if his 12 bed chalet is now £32k a week to cover the costs of paying the staff inline with regulations - so don't see the loss of this market |
Suspect it will be a lot bigger increase than that, how do you come to a less than 7% increase?
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| Ryunis wrote: |
| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
My vote is for me.
I vote for me.
My vote is not for you, so why should I care. |
Absolutely textbook |
\
That is how voting works
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 23-11-20 19:51; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DB wrote: |
| extremerob wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| I'm not talking Suzy and Tony from Salford but hoo-ray Henry and his mates from Kensington who rent the whole 12 bed chalet for 30 grand a week. |
This made me chuckle - I do feel that hoo-ray Henry is not going to be too bothered if his 12 bed chalet is now £32k a week to cover the costs of paying the staff inline with regulations - so don't see the loss of this market |
Suspect it will be a lot bigger increase than that, how do you come to a less than 7% increase? |
Used Windofchange's £3100 a month value - assumed 3 staff - so thats £9300 a month, increase chalet price by £2k a week that is just over £8.5k a month - there is a delta of £800. I assume the staff at present do earn something and that would be in the region of £300 or more a month - so the above set of assumptions lead to a 7% increase.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The people who stayed in proper high-end chalets were not served by school leavers being paid a few quid, a ski pass and their keep. My son cooked in some (sent by a staffing agency for one or two weeks at a time) and was very well paid
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| extremerob wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| extremerob wrote: |
| DB wrote: |
| I'm not talking Suzy and Tony from Salford but hoo-ray Henry and his mates from Kensington who rent the whole 12 bed chalet for 30 grand a week. |
This made me chuckle - I do feel that hoo-ray Henry is not going to be too bothered if his 12 bed chalet is now £32k a week to cover the costs of paying the staff inline with regulations - so don't see the loss of this market |
Suspect it will be a lot bigger increase than that, how do you come to a less than 7% increase? |
Used Windofchange's £3100 a month value - assumed 3 staff - so thats £9300 a month, increase chalet price by £2k a week that is just over £8.5k a month - there is a delta of £800. I assume the staff at present do earn something and that would be in the region of £300 or more a month - so the above set of assumptions lead to a 7% increase. |
That's assuming maximum occupancy for every week of the season which in most cases isn't going to happen.
You also have staff to manage the chalet staff & drivers etc.
Not sure but there could be additional insurance costs / taxes.
Maybe it is the high-end that have the best chance of surviving as for the Salford elite (Suzy and Tony) the percentage increase will be at least 26% more. (based €7500/week for a 12 bed chalet)
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You know it makes sense.
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| GeorgeVII wrote: |
| @Kenzie, But the 90 day limit makes seasonal renting less straight forward. |
I was assuming that 180 day tourist visas would be available (should have said in other post  ), but we'll have to wait & see if they'll be needed/available - find out in the New Year?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I suppose in addition the chalet companies might have to ....
move away from English contracts and get new contracts in German / French etc drawn up.
Source preferably English speaking staff (so at the very least other people within the company can communicate with them)
They will have to .....
Get their taxes sorted out as they are now paying tax in central Europe not the UK.
Adhere to local employment rules.
Anything else?
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's made things a bit more complicated, but there's still plenty of opportunity out there for those that really want to do a ski season; Canada, NZ, Australia, japan all have working holiday visas for young Brits. From the sounds of it there will also be seasonal visas for Brits looking to work in Europe so let's wait and see before saying the sky has fallen down. If you are a skilled worker you may be eligible for a work visa.
In my personal circle of friends the vast majority of outrage about this situation comes from people that have never, or were never likely to work in the EU anyway. I've worked in 2 foreign countries and done 4 winter seasons - none were in eu countries! While I would prefer to still have the option to work in eu without any visa, it doesn't mean we now have no options.
As others have said the best way to do a season is not working anyway. It doesn't have to break the bank either. £3k will get you 3-4 months in Canada all in (flights, insurance, lift pass, accomodation, food etc.), and I don't think that is an insurmountable amount to save for a teenager living with their parents.
| Quote: |
The chalet boys and girls queued up for the opportunity of a working winter when they could confidently expect to do more skiing - and probably more drinking - than any low paid workers back home could expect to do, whilst breaking even financially
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Exactly! There is certainly an argument to be made that they are underpaid,but when people compare chalet workers to slaves they just make themselves look stupid. Chalet workings know what the deal is - you get low pay, but lots of perks and have to put nothing in up front. I've had similar work arrangements (below minimum wage for exceptional benefits), and while it doesn't suit everyone I think it's a good option for those it does.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Kenzie, it's 90 days within a rolling 180-day period, not 180 days continuously.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It is a whole new decade and the Brits are still squawking on Project Fear.
Get over it.
You folks lost 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| You folks lost |
So did your boy Trump.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @Kenzie, it's 90 days within a rolling 180-day period, not 180 days continuously. |
Without a visa. Kenzie wrote about getting a tourist visa.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rjs, what is a tourist visa? Is it for a specific country?
My understanding is that the 90-days within a rolling 180-day period is exactly that. For 2021 it will probably be a stamp in the passport/proof of return travel, but from 2022 it will be ETIAS.
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Yoda wrote: |
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Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
My vote is for me.
I vote for me.
My vote is not for you, so why should I care. |
I think the crux of the problem is that you used your freedom to take ours away.
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(except perhaps for people born in NI who could apply for a Republic of Ireland passport)
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I do have a friend who was born in Northern Ireland yet for some bizzare reason has not yet applied for an Irish passport. I suspect she doesn't doesn't recall the experience since she lived in Great Britain all her life and doesn't realise that she should apply.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
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(except perhaps for people born in NI who could apply for a Republic of Ireland passport)
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I do have a friend who was born in Northern Ireland yet for some bizzare reason has not yet applied for an Irish passport. I suspect she doesn't doesn't recall the experience since she lived in Great Britain all her life and doesn't realise that she should apply. |
Is her name Arlene Foster?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Mon 23-11-20 21:52; edited 1 time in total
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| Ld wrote: |
| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Yoda wrote: |
| Quote: |
Us voted leave knew all this
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yes, you knew it would ruin people's lives but you went ahead and did it anyway. |
My vote is for me.
I vote for me.
My vote is not for you, so why should I care. |
I think the crux of the problem is that you used your freedom to take ours away. |
Another person who does not understand how voting works.
No crux. No problem.
Its my vote. For me. I choose to vote for what is best for me.
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