With this product you don't need to use your probe, that is time consuming by itself.
15.38
Joe Axelrad wrote:
You see just part or the end of the strap, and you pull it toward the end there it feels resistance and you follow it until you get to the location of the buried person below the strap.
However, you will have to use a probe to search for the exact location, but the strap will give you, as much as you can follow, the location where the victim is.
So old dogs can learn new tricks remarkably quickly. By tomorrow he'll be evangelising about this amazing thing called transceivers
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
[quote="philwig"]
extremerob wrote:
... I don't know why the admins haven't come along to remove you and your crap from this forum
Thank you guys for your valuable input and "extremely polite".
Regardless if you like it or not, I don't expect you to buy my product, and please don't.
I am convinced that it is a service to the powder addicted community, that I am part of, and the price proves it by itself. As mentioned before $35 including shipping, that's definitely not for making a profit.
So with all my respect to your valuable and polite input, I wish you a pleasant coming season and See You On The Slopes.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Joe Axelrad, Buddy, you turn up uninvited, pitch your poorly researched product without understanding your audience and then flounceo off in the huff at being badly treated? (Are you a management consultant?)
It must be said, though, that SnowHeads is a tough crowd. Opinionated, rude, not scared of robust discussion ...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@extremerob, I apologize for not paying attention to your yesterday comment, probably because of its size.
However, when I looked at the picture, there's no doubt that in one field you are an expert.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Joe Axelrad, I don't really want to prolong the inhumane suffering, but noting @extremerob's post I realised I hadn't given myself the unalloyed joy of checking out @Joe Axelrad's website.
Joe, you are the founder of MySpace and I claim my $5. I can't believe there's no flashturbation? Oh and, the "Detaches" doesn't need a capital "D".
This is a crap joke, right?
I mean, ultimately, examining the core use case that triggered the genius thinking, "I lost my ski" (and "I've been to Ischgl, aren't I clever?").
1. If you know what you are doing, 99% of the time, you can find your ski, without a great deal of effort. (And if you don't know what you are doing ... to an extent ... why are you off piste?)
2. + If you can't find it, there's always a spare or two in the helo, right?
Solution looking for a problem, hello? Hello?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@under a new name, Skis are sneaky bugs. I've had some joyous events from things like a snapped binding base plate to sharks teeth to sheer incompetence that have caused me to lose skis in deep snow, sometimes they submarine effectively for quite some distance without surface clue, sometimes they skim the surface for quite some distance before finding the only clump of trees on the hill side and burying themselves in a tree well. I've always found them but sometimes not without effort. For those with jewels they are really concerned about there is always the Resqski.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Dave of the Marmottes, but ... but ... "there's always a spare or two in the helo, right? "
Yeah, I have watched @Shep, who has done his share of powder vertical in his time, spend a good 30 minutes trying to find a ski once and despite our combined best efforts it eventually turned up totally not where it should have been (tree roots deflecting).
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I have been known to fall, and I dislike effort, so I have Reqskis, make life very easy to find exactly where the ski is.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I ski 4 months each year, mostly off piste, and I can tell that I Ski Where I See.
I am not trying to verify who has the biggest tool, yet, I am not ashamed to say that sometimes I fall, and loosing my ski in Ischgl, didn't make me happy.
So, as an engineer, I thought, I made, and I tested, and the outcome, whether you like it or not, is an affordable solution, for those that cannot afford much.
That's why I LIKE IT.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Not being funny, regardless of the product I wouldn't buy it from a website looking like yours. The grammar, design/layout, fact it doesn't load properly on smaller device - just... a hard no from me.
Perhaps you need to increase your product price, and use the profits to hire a designer to come up with a new site for you? It'd make your efforts look more credible, IMHO.
Good luck with the product though (albeit, perhaps not the best way to advertise on this forum).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@under a new name, Skis are sneaky bugs. I've had some joyous events from things like a snapped binding base plate to sharks teeth to sheer incompetence that have caused me to lose skis in deep snow, sometimes they submarine effectively for quite some distance without surface clue, sometimes they skim the surface for quite some distance before finding the only clump of trees on the hill side and burying themselves in a tree well. I've always found them but sometimes not without effort. For those with jewels they are really concerned about there is always the Resqski.
I was with skimottaret in Niseko and he popped a binding going over a terrain change and his ski floated over the snow about 100m down a steepish pitch, far enough to only be visible amongst the trees when we used the zoom on a camcorder. After we eventually spotted the runaway he had to ski down a 30 plus degree slope in thigh deep Japow on one ski. Both impressive and entertaining in equal measure, although I don’t think he agreed with me when I mentioned that. If only he’d had 100m of fairytale ribbon rolled up his trews he’d have been OK.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Joe Axelrad, what you've made is ski tracers, which have been around a while. You've also introduced the idea of attaching them to the skier to make an 'avalanche safety system' that you seem claim is better than a transceiver. Then you spammed snowheads about it and got a fair amount of abuse but also some ideas which you seemingly have chosen to ignore, eg:
1) Have different coloured ribbon for ski and skier, and label them as such
2) Have directional arrows on the ribbon so people know which way to head
3) Update your website so it doesn't look like it's from the late 90s and, if possible, get it proofread by someone who uses English as a first language.
BTW, for the future, the mistakes you made were:
1) Spamming the hell out of a forum you've just joined
2) Not taking onboard any criticism, even if it's constructive
3) Suggesting that the widely accepted current solution of transceiver and probe are not as good as your product
4) Randomly putting parts of sentences in bold, which comes across as quite aggressive.
Having done all the above, it was always going to be difficult to win people over even if the product was remarkably good...which it isn't.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
rob@rar wrote:
I was with skimottaret in Niseko and he popped a binding going over a terrain change and his ski floated over the snow about 100m down a steepish pitch, far enough to only be visible amongst the trees when we used the zoom on a camcorder. After we eventually spotted the runaway he had to ski down a 30 plus degree slope in thigh deep Japow on one ski. Both impressive and entertaining in equal measure, although I don’t think he agreed with me when I mentioned that. If only he’d had 100m of fairytale ribbon rolled up his trews he’d have been OK.
So you used the zoom on the camcorder to find the ski and then skimottaret skied 100m in steep n' deep Japow on one ski. I don't believe that you could possibly have resisted capturing the recovery effort on camera... So.... video??
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Tubaski wrote:
So you used the zoom on the camcorder to find the ski and then skimottaret skied 100m in steep n' deep Japow on one ski. I don't believe that you could possibly have resisted capturing the recovery effort on camera... So.... video??
Alas not, he had the camcorder not me. I skied ahead to confirm it actually was his ski (it was sticking out of the snow and from a distance looked like a tree branch), on the understanding that if it wasn't his ski I was going to carry on down the slope because, as we all know, no friends on a powder day even if that friend has lost a ski.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 3-11-20 12:29; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Joe Axelrad, what you've made is ski tracers, which have been around a while. You've also introduced the idea of attaching them to the skier to make an 'avalanche safety system' that you seem claim is better than a transceiver.
I bought 'powder traces' from Snow and Rock about 30 years ago, bright yellow with S&R branding. Used them for a few days and gave up because the hassle was just not worth it. I concluded they fell in to the category of "knicknacks for knobheads", which, on reflection, doesn't say much about my purchasing decisions.
Avalanche cords have similarly been a thing for decades, and this isn't the first time they have been ridiculed on this forum.
@rob@rar, Mr HL bought me a pair of powder tracers as a stocking filler years ago. As anyone who has seen me ski will know that was a complete waste of money
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
My OH has often asked the question why is there not an alarm that can be activated if getting caught in a slide, some of the products available from an ABS through to the old bagpipe type bag you breathed into involved a premeditated act such as pulling a handle, so if you've pulled your handle on a bag could that not set off a high pitched alarm, or just a handle to initiate an alarm?
Though the obvious question is could you hear the alarm under a couple of ms of snow, possibly powder but not too sure about Spring cement, we keep saying we should do a test, bury a phone and call it for starters?
I did have a RequiSki system and for the life of me can't recall if that was sound-based or not
And just to throw this into the mix raising another perspective to many of the valid points made, but just coming at it from another angle as it were.
As I've mentioned before a while back I did the week-long Euro Avalanche course which being weeklong was obviously quite intense with both class and fieldwork sessions. Numerous scenarios were covered and as I know I've stated before the finals day was bonkers in terms of an adrenalin rush as you carried out numerous searches under the watchful eyes of the examiners.
One scenario was that you came across a big slide and had no idea what had happened, how many involved etc, one person even acted the part of a crazed survivor giving us false info.
What was spelt out was that rather waste valuable time using transceivers immediately, though fine if you can ski down whilst searching with one but actually it's quite hard over 200 sq m of debris, was to carefully assess the potential area for signs of equipment debris that might just give a clue to where people might be so that you can then start using your transceivers, just saying..........
My OH has often asked the question why is there not an alarm that can be activated if getting caught in a slide
If I'm gonna spend my last 20 minutes buried under 4m of snow I'm not sure I want to share it with my car alarm!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@marksymoo Thank you very much bro. Your input was very valuable and I changed the way my site looks on the small screen . If you don't mind I will appreciate your input.
After all it is free
After all it is free
holidayloverxx wrote:
@rob@rar, Mr HL bought me a pair of powder tracers as a stocking filler years ago. As anyone who has seen me ski will know that was a complete waste of money
I made my own once.
After using them the first time, clicking out of the skis for a gondola, and trailing 2m of ribbon in with me, I didn't use them again.
I have wondered about a transceiver that combines a satellite tracker with a conventional transceiver. The tracker would get you within a few metres of the last location (either under the snow if only lightly buried or a last location before burial), so you could at least know where to start looking. In almost every case this should be within transceiver range, saving the need for the "macro search" step. Given the various work Garmin has done integrating inreach capabilities into other products, it seems like a logical progression.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@snowdave, like a "Find My Phone" thing?...actually my watch can make my phone creepily say "I'm here" using bluetooth...might be useful if I ever get buried but can still get a hand to my watch.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Don't know why I've never Googled it before, but how far can sound travel under snow you don't actually get any useful information:~/
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I just Googled sound dampening properties of snow and it would appear the answer is not very far at all - it has similar properties to sound insulation materials.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Tubaski wrote:
I just Googled sound dampening properties of snow and it would appear the answer is not very far at all - it has similar properties to sound insulation materials.
One of the reasons I like to ski or walk when snow is falling. You get that lovely quietness as the sound of everything is muffled.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Tubaski wrote:
I just Googled sound dampening properties of snow and it would appear the answer is not very far at all - it has similar properties to sound insulation materials.
I've built many igloos. Once they are above head height, and you're trying to coordinate the placing of the last few blocks between the person inside and the person outside, it's almost impossible to hear each other.
@SnoodlesMcFlude - kinda like findmyphone, but the Inreach uses satellite communications so works anywhere. It would need some kind of accelerometer to work out that it's possible in an avalanche and increase its ping frequency (normally 10 minutes) and the other transceivers would need satellite communications to receive the signal reliably. In normal use it lays a breadcrumb trail every 10 mins, so even if I fall down a crevasse/am unconscious, if my wife called out the rescue services they'd have an approximate location. Unlike a PLB, even if you don't trigger a rescue, people know where you are/were last visible to the satellites.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@rob@rar
Snow is ice + air. Both are bad wave conductors
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@snowdave, interesting idea, if you increase the frequency of the ping to say to 10s or even 1s for arguments sake, you're now relying on the accuracy of the unit + ability for your partner to interpret the data / have access to it. An absolute life saver for tours and any solo BC.
I am certain the accuracy of purpose built GPS devices far exceeds what my phone does but I would feel much better using line of sight, we always try and ski that way and if the satellite upload is 1s or greater a significant distance can be travelled between last recorded point / last seen point. You also rely on the person interpreting the data on a map able to read it/navigate effectively and not be disorientated - following sound is basic. I know alot of people who cannot locate a point on google maps in the city relative to their current location and head in the right direction - would not want to trust them when its its all white!
Though you have me thinking about what is the future for transceivers, they work very well when the receiving device picks up a signal, arguably you want greater transmit power/range out of the devices. Is the future, greater transmission and the ability of 2+ receiving devices to work together understand the time shift in signal and triangulate the transmitting device, in effect leading to a quick search. I wonder if this is something we will see in the 20+ year timeline + buried victims creating a mesh network so that event eh furthest victim is transmitting through closer ones.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@extremerob, I'd also wondered about the mesh network, albeit in a different way.
If searcher-transceivers could communicate with each other, then as long as there are two searchers separated by a few meters (the further the better), then the transceivers could instantly triangulate the actual burial position (like a mini-GPS network). The more searching transceivers the better. You wouldn't even need 2 people; if a transceiver contained a GPS chip, then you could run from one point to another, and it could combine the distance/direction to burial from one known point with the distance-direction data from another, and give an absolute location for the burial. This would also work for multiple burials, by providing a map of all the locations from just two separate "search" points.
I think the next stage in search could be a move from relative locations along a flux line to absolute locations in 3D.
In combining with Inreach, I wasn't envisaging any requirement for extra interpretation - the existing transceiver could still give distance and direction, it's just that rather than using the local radio signal, it would use the satellite data initially to get to the right area. As it stands, my Barryvox shows different stages of search on the screen (initial acquisition/wide area search, following the acquired signal, micro transceiver search, probing), so it would be another stage of that.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Joe Axelrad, you are really not going about this the right way.
Powder traces are not new; you haven't invented them; and you can currently buy a set in the UK for less than $7 (£5 at Snow & Rock). They are useful; I know someone who, like you, permanently lost a ski - despite 6 people spending an hour searching for it.
Suggesting that they are a suitable substitute for people who find transceivers too expensive is just ridiculous.
And you don't make it clear how easy it is to detach/reattach without pulling out the traces - which is an important consideration when using gondolas or cable cars.
But I think the velcro idea, with linked traces attached to both leg/boot and ski, is probably new. And the suggestion above of separately labelling the bits attached to ski and to skier makes it even better. So if your marketing message - on here and on your website - was something like "Hey, I've created a variation on the powder trace that people may find useful; it could help to quickly narrow down the initial search location for someone after an avalanche", you might have got a very different reception.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ecureuil, Unfortunately you haven't looked at my site. Is nothing like a Powder trace and you don't need to pull out nothing and nowhere, unless your ski detaches from your boot in powder (that is not too often as I assume you are a good skier).
If you read my comments, this product is highly visible and will give the rescue team a fast location as where the victim is, as long as is not buried too deep. This product is not a replacement for a probe or a shovel. However, thanks for your input.
As the topic is not Ski Finding, I will refrain from discussing the difference for that.
It is absolutely a powder trace. Seriously do you think we are all mugs?
The only difference is you've an expensive little pouch to keep them in and possibly some sort of over engineered anchor to unclip at every gondola/hike/transition/toilet break (gender and alfresco attitude dependent)/ drink stop/lunch until you forget which will be after a few cases of remembering. After a couple of such instances pif many people's experiences of powder traces is anything to go by you say sod it - too much hassle
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
This product is not a replacement for a probe or a shovel
This product is not a replacement for a probe or a shovel
So what is it for?
You really haven't done your research have you?
I'm guessing he still thinks it's instead of a transceiver
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dave of the Marmottes, Dave, I thought that after so many comments, you have looked at the pictures in my site and understood the product.
Give it a try and maybe you come out with a different point of view. I cannot educate everyone, but my attitude when joining a discussion, is to be open minded and do some homework.
That's why I am a senior, with a "little" life experience, and probably you are not (No intent to offend you)
After all it is free
After all it is free
where's the popcorn?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
holidayloverxx wrote:
where's the popcorn?
If you can't find it you should have tied a 5 meter ribbon to it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Joe Axelrad, maybe you can start fresh and explain to us:
1) What exactly is this product, how does it function ( I have been to your site, but best to explain here for the clarity of everyone)
2) Is it meant to replace current kit I carry for safety (probe, shovel, transceiver, or even ABS bag) - if yes which kit?
3) If it is supplementary - why would I purchase it - what is the USP (others have mentioned there are far cheaper powder tracers - c.$10)
4) Your device is not a technological improvement/step-change, so why haven't people already thought about it and developed similar products - especially given that powder tracers are not new, it's low cost in comparison to losing a ski/other avalanche equipment would imply that there is a big market for it?
5) There was something called the "Avalanche Ball" which came to market end of the 00's if I recall - it was meant to do exactly what your product is proposing albeit in a much more visible manner - why did this product not work? http://youtube.com/v/qTKLdBe3VBc
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
(albeit, perhaps not the best way to advertise on this forum).
