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France returns to lockdown

 Poster: A snowHead
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@robs1, I’m not a fan of mr Johnson but the ppe debacle was the fault of the last 3 or 4 govts, they even ran an exercise called Cygnus and then ignored the results and recommendations which would have solved the issues etc so Johnson is partly to blame for pope but not wholly

The vaccine he can take credit for because he pulled the uk out of the eu scheme and went it alone, they didn’t worry too much about getting the lowest price but got the deals done quickly, where as the eu negotiated harder to get best prices but that takes time hence is why they are behind the uk etc

I would say that the vaccine stuff is the only thing boris and his crew can say they got right, the rest..... not so much Madeye-Smiley

I think james is suggesting he’s not responsible for the success of the vaccine but I would say is wrong because he is for getting the deals done etc and taking us out of the eu deal, but clearly putting in people’s arms was always going to be nhs, army etc
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@Claude B, I think Boris’s improvement in performance has coincided with the departure of Dominic Cummings
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@zzz, or the arrival of Allegra
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Claude B wrote:
I think, with a foot in each camp, Boris performed catastrophically until recently when the vaccination programme has gone very well. IMO Macron had done well, rules in France were clear and firm and the death toll is lower but recently the vaccination programme has not gone well and he's struggling with other matters.


I don’t even think France got the lockdowns that right. Communication was good but policy wasn’t. They were simultaneously too harsh and not effective enough, and didn’t seem to get the concept that having people spaced out outdoors is good, and crammed together indoors is bad. It just seemed to be misery for the sake of it. 1km was pointlessly too restrictive. Attestation forms were a waste of time. Even now all the shops are open but ski lifts are closed. The sales are on so shops today were rammed. Switzerland has the exact opposite approach and cases are dropping.
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Why didn't Macron lock France down.

Someone at the meeting spoke to the Press and said the following were key points
1. too expensive 15 billion per month and France is already in a serious position with its public debt
2. worries about civil unrest

but apparently the medical advice was to wait a week and see if infections have plateau'd or not. The minister warned that if the lockdown comes it will be extremely tight in order to try and make it as short as possible. Bets are now on next weekend but given what has happened so far, it is anyone's guess.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 30-01-21 21:17; edited 1 time in total
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ajc2260626 wrote:
@robs1, I’m not a fan of mr Johnson but the ppe debacle was the fault of the last 3 or 4 govts, they even ran an exercise called Cygnus and then ignored the results and recommendations which would have solved the issues etc so Johnson is partly to blame for pope but not wholly



At the time of Cygnus...remind us who was foreign sec at the time?
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"Johnson is partly to blame for pope but not wholly"

More influence than I thought, but made me laugh anyway Very Happy

Don't we love spell checking.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
adithorp wrote:
ajc2260626 wrote:
@robs1, I’m not a fan of mr Johnson but the ppe debacle was the fault of the last 3 or 4 govts, they even ran an exercise called Cygnus and then ignored the results and recommendations which would have solved the issues etc so Johnson is partly to blame for pope but not wholly



At the time of Cygnus...remind us who was foreign sec at the time?


Why would the foreign sec be responsible for emergency planning ? That would be the home office and treasury primarily I would think.
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@ski3, LOL quality!

Adithorp foreign secretary not really the point, did you mean health secretary ? Also not really the point, the point was that the govt ran Cygnus to see what the state we were in if a pandemic broke, it showed we weren’t well prepared and needed to do stuff...... we didn’t bother following the recommendations unfortunately..... Jeremy Hunt who was the health secretary pre Boris etc admitted this
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@robs1, or health sec ??
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hold_my_biere wrote:
Claude B wrote:
I think, with a foot in each camp, Boris performed catastrophically until recently when the vaccination programme has gone very well. IMO Macron had done well, rules in France were clear and firm and the death toll is lower but recently the vaccination programme has not gone well and he's struggling with other matters.


I don’t even think France got the lockdowns that right. Communication was good but policy wasn’t. They were simultaneously too harsh and not effective enough, and didn’t seem to get the concept that having people spaced out outdoors is good, and crammed together indoors is bad. It just seemed to be misery for the sake of it. 1km was pointlessly too restrictive. Attestation forms were a waste of time. Even now all the shops are open but ski lifts are closed. The sales are on so shops today were rammed. Switzerland has the exact opposite approach and cases are dropping.


1000 customers a month in Grenobles 2 hospitals as a result of skiing injuries. That's the primary reason.
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davidof wrote:
Why didn't Macron lock France down.

Someone at the meeting spoke to the Press and said the following were key points
1. too expensive 15 billion per month and France is already in a serious position with its public debt
2. worries about civil unrest

but apparently the medical advice was to wait a week and see if infections have plateau'd or not. The minister warned that if the lockdown comes it will be extremely tight in order to try and make it as short as possible. Bets are now on next weekend but given what has happened so far, it is anyone's guess.


I'm going to Lyon next weekend they can just do one Laughing
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@ajc2260626, I agree (reluctantly!) that Johnson probably wasn't to blame for the PPE issues. To some extent I agree that is because the Conservative administration since 2010 has though public health and emergency planning to fit in the category of "wasteful inefficiency" but also because no one anywhere foresaw the situation where there would be a huge increase in demand over a very short time scale. Lesson learnt (and no doubt forgotten soon too).

And Johnson does take some credit for vaccines. The fact that he (and more likely Cummings @zzz) had no interest at the time was a huge advantage since it left consideration of the various candidates - all in an extremely early stage then, remember - to experts. But huge financial commitment at risk must have been agreed from the top.

@holidayloverxx, it would be interesting if it turns out that Allegra Stratton is pulling strings, possible but I haven't seen reports suggesting that. I think it is more likely, and a simpler explanation, that in the absence of Dominic Cummings Johnson has actually taken in the message of Chris Whitty and the scientists. Certainly in the recent TV briefings they have suddenly actually sounded as if they are part of the same team, and with the same objective of overcoming Covid rather than simply "boosting Boris". And the decision to open schools at the earliest a gap of 3 weeks after the last (hoped for) over-70 vaccination indicates a caution which doesn't come naturally to Johnson.

I am beginning to wonder if Johnson is actually somewhat self-aware (something I never thought I would write) and knows he has to depend on others for guidance, preferring the PR role. If he chose his "others" correctly perhaps he could even have been a reasonably good Prime Minister. It is too late to correct the huge misjudgements over Brexit, but there may be some scope for a little credit over Covid.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I was convinced we were heading for lockdown. Not so sure now. Only 6 days to go until the start of french school holidays. Families have made plans, travel and accomodation has been booked... and from what I hear, it's going to be busy in the ski resorts even without the lifts.
They could have announced lockdown last week and got away with it... if they do it only a couple of days before the holidays, there will be mayhem.
But they'll probably do it anyway...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
sucette wrote:
I was convinced we were heading for lockdown. Not so sure now. Only 6 days to go until the start of french school holidays. Families have made plans, travel and accomodation has been booked... and from what I hear, it's going to be busy in the ski resorts even without the lifts.
They could have announced lockdown last week and got away with it... if they do it only a couple of days before the holidays, there will be mayhem.
But they'll probably do it anyway...


Already a lot of holiday cars on the road from what I can see. The motorway service station north of Grenoble was full at lunchtime with non locals (As @weathercam) has seen around your way. Many with ski boxes or even skis visible. I assume they are not trying to get into Switzerland.
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holidayloverxx wrote:
@zzz, or the arrival of Allegra


Or the arrival of Viagra?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Claude B wrote:

1000 customers a month in Grenobles 2 hospitals as a result of skiing injuries. That's the primary reason.


I don’t even buy that argument. It’s not like they’d be competing for ventilators. I just think they’re more concerned about optics and being seen to be tough than what actually works. People couldn’t go for a walk outside 2km from their house? Just utter indefensible bs.
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@davidof, yes indeed, quite a few "foreign" cars around here, and as @weathercam said, everybody knows everybody in each village so it's easy to spot them.
Switzerland ? Well I don't know... We actually have quite a few Swiss staying in our hotel this weekend (they're here for the car ice-racing circuit). Regular guests, we've known them all for about 10 years. One of them lives in Trient which is a tiny place literally just over the border from.... Vallorcine ! When he's not ramming the french off the ice-circuit, he drives a snow-plough, mainly at night... and he has some VERY interesting stories. They are no border controls on that road... and he's seen hundreds of french-reg cars plus ski boxes crossing in both directions. He has no idea where they're heading or where they've been but the French are definately skiing somewhere !!!
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ajc2260626 wrote:
im afraid @NickYoung, is right.... macron is having a shocker, he's obviously trying to give Boris a run for his money Toofy Grin


No10 must have been shitting it, wondering how they could ever make Boris look competent and statesman-like...then the EU and Macron went "Here, hold my coat"...
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hold_my_biere wrote:
Claude B wrote:

1000 customers a month in Grenobles 2 hospitals as a result of skiing injuries. That's the primary reason.


I don’t even buy that argument. It’s not like they’d be competing for ventilators. I just think they’re more concerned about optics and being seen to be tough than what actually works. People couldn’t go for a walk outside 2km from their house? Just utter indefensible bs.


Not my numbers, not the governments, spokesperson for the local hospitals on local radio. Doesn't seem unreasonable given the number of helicopters and ambulances leaving here during the skiing season. Not many require ventilators I expect but they all use hospital resources.

But that's an argument against opening ski resorts rather than for other lockdown measures tbh.
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Claude B wrote:


...given the number of helicopters and ambulances leaving here during the skiing season.


Hadn't thought of that previously, but (and without people bah blah blahing about genuine cases), just how much have the heli-rescue/insurance manipulators lost this year on broken toe nails, people who "don't eat breakfast" and "asthma" attacks?
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hold_my_biere wrote:
Claude B wrote:

1000 customers a month in Grenobles 2 hospitals as a result of skiing injuries. That's the primary reason.


I don’t even buy that argument. It’s not like they’d be competing for ventilators. I just think they’re more concerned about optics and being seen to be tough than what actually works. People couldn’t go for a walk outside 2km from their house? Just utter indefensible bs.


Talking to a chum who is a senior pisteur up the Grands Montets the number of serious injuries actually requiring hospital level treatment is very small.

Arbitrary restrictions are indeed ridiculous.
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30 a day. Grenoble serves here, Alpe d'huez, plus a whole bunch of medium sized and smaller resorts around Grenoble and further afield. It is also used for all the most serious injuries across the french alps. Schumacher was taken there from Meribel and I know that a well known snowHead was taken there after a serious accident in Serre Chevalier. That number doesn't seem to be out of order to me.

As well as skiing injuries in larger resorts like here there is an element of drunkeness and fighting leading to injuries too. Most winters we have at least one, usually more, deaths of youngsters leaving the biggest nightclub, taking a wrong turn and falling off the cliff. The last was January last year, a french lad, it's usually a Brit.

The helicopters have been flying from time to time. There have been injuries and deaths of ski tourers, snowshoers, etc. Minimal in comparison. I haven't seen an ambulance anything but parked up for months.

Many more minor injuries including breaks, etc are treated by the doctors, clinics, etc in resort. I saw a news article recently that the Association of Mountain Doctors (or some such name) are seeking financial support given their business has dropped dramatically. They also treat the locals but there are only 2000 permanent inhabitants here compared to 30000 or so, incurring far more injuries, during a normal season.

So much as I don't like it, I'm typing this laying in bed looking at a stationary lift from the window, on a bluebird powder day. I do understand it.
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sucette wrote:
@davidof, yes indeed, quite a few "foreign" cars around here, and as @weathercam said, everybody knows everybody in each village so it's easy to spot them.
Switzerland ? Well I don't know... We actually have quite a few Swiss staying in our hotel this weekend (they're here for the car ice-racing circuit). Regular guests, we've known them all for about 10 years. One of them lives in Trient which is a tiny place literally just over the border from.... Vallorcine ! When he's not ramming the french off the ice-circuit, he drives a snow-plough, mainly at night... and he has some VERY interesting stories. They are no border controls on that road... and he's seen hundreds of french-reg cars plus ski boxes crossing in both directions. He has no idea where they're heading or where they've been but the French are definately skiing somewhere !!!


Quite a few French plates in Verbier. The pro skiers aren’t even hiding it on IG
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@Claude B, I can’t argue on numbers beyond that anecdote. But what I’m hearing (from admittedly interested parties) is that the usual accident rate doesn’t cause hospitals/clinics a problem and the strictly local C-19 disease caseload is not over high. But we are where we are.
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Unlikely (!!!) to have lifts running yesterday anyway with avvy at 5/5 Shocked
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under a new name wrote:
Unlikely (!!!) to have lifts running yesterday anyway with avvy at 5/5 Shocked


Only Shocked 4 here. I'm going out today but staying very low and safe.

In fact today, I've just checked and its 3 above 2000m, 2 below. But they are doing some PIDA stuff so need to be careful.
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Claude B wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Unlikely (!!!) to have lifts running yesterday anyway with avvy at 5/5 Shocked


Only Shocked 4 here. I'm going out today but staying very low and safe.

In fact today, I've just checked and its 3 above 2000m, 2 below. But they are doing some PIDA stuff so need to be careful.


What is PIDA?
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You know it makes sense.
Plan d'intervention de déclenchements des avalanches
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achilles wrote:
Claude B wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Unlikely (!!!) to have lifts running yesterday anyway with avvy at 5/5 Shocked


Only Shocked 4 here. I'm going out today but staying very low and safe.

In fact today, I've just checked and its 3 above 2000m, 2 below. But they are doing some PIDA stuff so need to be careful.


What is PIDA?


The French word PIDA refers to an avalanche prevention exercise.

Alternatively if could stand for Pensioners Inhaling Deadly Aerosols............... you can make your own mind up which one he was referring too Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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Looks like us Brits will be vaccinated before the end of the season but wont be able to ski because the Bullying EU cant get its act together.They have shown their true colours in the vaccine debacle ,thank god we got out of their club.
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Would you like to remove yourself and your thoughts to the Brexit thread, @saintnickle? This is an interesting and focussed one, to which many people who are actually in France or nearby, contribute.
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saintnickle wrote:
Looks like us Brits will be vaccinated before the end of the season but wont be able to ski because the Bullying EU cant get its act together.They have shown their true colours in the vaccine debacle ,thank god we got out of their club.


There’s no way we’ll all have received both doses by the end of the season. I’d be very surprised if the over 75s have had their second jab by then. And even then it’s another two weeks before it’s effective.

That said, and even though I am firmly a “rejoiner”, the EU have had an absolute stinker with vaccination. I suppose the Tories finally had to get something right though, especially given the 5th highest death toll in the world.
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@Timmycb5, think Pam's suggestion applies to you too. Get back on topic or take your agenda elsewhere.
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esaw1 wrote:
@Timmycb5, think Pam's suggestion applies to you too. Get back on topic or take your agenda elsewhere.

Hadn’t seen that. I’ll wind my neck in.
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https://www.gouvernement.fr/en/coronavirus-covid-19

A nightly curfew is currently in force in metropolitan France. Between 6PM and 6AM you may only leave your residence for the following reasons and with an exemption certificate:
Commuting to and from work, school or training place; carrying out essential business trips that cannot be postponed;
Medical appointments that cannot be carried out remotely or postponed;
Essential family reasons, assisting vulnerable persons, persons in a precarious situation or taking care of children;
Persons with a disability and their accompanying person;
Judicial or administrative summons;
Participating in a mission of general interest upon request from an administrative authority;
Air or rail transit related to long distance journeys;
Walking a pet outdoors within 1km of one’s place of residence and for a brief amount of time.


The 6.00pm curfew is harsh.
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Claude B wrote:
hold_my_biere wrote:
Claude B wrote:

1000 customers a month in Grenobles 2 hospitals as a result of skiing injuries. That's the primary reason.


I don’t even buy that argument. It’s not like they’d be competing for ventilators. I just think they’re more concerned about optics and being seen to be tough than what actually works. People couldn’t go for a walk outside 2km from their house? Just utter indefensible bs.


Not my numbers, not the governments, spokesperson for the local hospitals on local radio. Doesn't seem unreasonable given the number of helicopters and ambulances leaving here during the skiing season. Not many require ventilators I expect but they all use hospital resources.

But that's an argument against opening ski resorts rather than for other lockdown measures tbh.


Having once been a customer of an alpine hospital (rather than medical centre), I can confirm they are like cattle markets. The triage queue was insane. Took more than an hour just to be seen, and that was me with a broken tib and fib, and the poor sod in front of me with a suspected broken back.

I’d guess they want to avoid having to deal with this level of customer because it will a) take up resources, and b) kettling injured people in close proximity during a pandemics would be a hotbed of infection.
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sucette wrote:
@davidof, yes indeed, quite a few "foreign" cars around here, and as @weathercam said, everybody knows everybody in each village so it's easy to spot them.
Switzerland ? Well I don't know... We actually have quite a few Swiss staying in our hotel this weekend (they're here for the car ice-racing circuit). Regular guests, we've known them all for about 10 years. One of them lives in Trient which is a tiny place literally just over the border from.... Vallorcine ! When he's not ramming the french off the ice-circuit, he drives a snow-plough, mainly at night... and he has some VERY interesting stories. They are no border controls on that road... and he's seen hundreds of french-reg cars plus ski boxes crossing in both directions. He has no idea where they're heading or where they've been but the French are definately skiing somewhere !!!

Some friends from Grenoble were skiing in Zagreb last week, don't know how they got there though.
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Well with the sun out was pretty bonkers busy, I think the French make more of Le Weekend more than the Brits do.

And as someone who lives on the South Coast with the promenade right in front of us have to say it's no less busy than I imagine today would have been on a sunny winter weekend Sunday, the difference being that than the multitude of visitors were walkers, snow-shoers, cross-country, or on dog sleds or at the racing circuit.

That said social distancing was not a concept, nor minimal groups was something that was too apparent, but probably no worse than one would have seen in the UK today.

And harking back to our favourite subject of visiting number plates they were from everywhere, and by the time I returned back to the parking it was nigh on rammed!

So I think half term will be just as busy, so does beg the question why is Macron not restricting travel etc



I had good friends round this afternoon who run the Edelweiss Hotel in La Grave, always no pressure when I cook for them as Robin is a feckin good take no prisoners Chef, though maybe he was just as ever being polite Laughing

Over that side of the Col it's more or less in shade so very different to the Spring like conditions we have, they too, are dismayed that no restrictions are in place yet, though they do not have that many bookings for Half Term as LG is not as family-friendly weatherwise as here.

And they too had a ski-bum chef, who maybe had a better handle on things that the media who upped sticks before Xmas saying that he felt it would not open Laughing

They are saying that April 6th could be the date that they could open, along with restos and bars, but not that it will be worth it.
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pam w wrote:
Would you like to remove yourself and your thoughts to the Brexit thread, @saintnickle? This is an interesting and focussed one, to which many people who are actually in France or nearby, contribute.

Thats fine but dont allow your memebrs make snide remarks about the British govenments response to covid and Brexit when it suits .
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