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France returns to lockdown

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
russ_e wrote:
Looks like the EU is trying to close down all resorts in Europe until mid Jan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55081476


Mid-jan? this keeps popping up! In the first line of the link you've posted it says 'early Jan'!
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Handy Turnip wrote:


I think it may be due to the extra burden on the hospitals through ski injuries.


But opening restaurants, cinemas and swimming pools will create more pressure by spreading the virus, no?
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Oleski wrote:
Handy Turnip wrote:


I think it may be due to the extra burden on the hospitals through ski injuries.


But opening restaurants, cinemas and swimming pools will create more pressure by spreading the virus, no?


Not necessarily disagreeing just stating the reason that they've given..

Alpinebear wrote:


If the ski resorts will be able to accommodate holidaymakers during the end-of-year holidays, the practice of alpine skiing on the slopes will not be authorized, however, confirmed the Prime Minister.

"We felt that the epidemic situation and that the situation of hospitals in the regions concerned, in particular in Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes and Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, do not allow us to consider an opening for the Christmas holidays", a- he stressed, believing that "it would not be prudent to allow very large flows of populations to come together with activities likely to require hospital services".
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Oleski wrote:
Alpinebear wrote:
Ski resorts: the ski lifts will remain closed at Christmas

If the ski resorts will be able to accommodate holidaymakers during the end-of-year holidays, the practice of alpine skiing on the slopes will not be authorized, however, confirmed the Prime Minister.


How does this make any bloody sense? They will open the virus spread hotspots but not the actual skiing where everyone stays apart and wears ski masks?


They were only "virus spread hot spots " then as it was not observed most other places. That's ultimately irrelevant now as covid has marched around the world uninterrupted without help from the ski specific locations.
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A good summary of some of the reactions across various resorts, and their current plans given the Castex announcement:
https://www.euronews.com/2020/11/26/french-ski-resorts-to-open-at-christmas-but-lifts-to-remain-closed-says-french-pm

I didn't know Courchevel had their own test lab?! 500 tests a day isn't bad.
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Handy Turnip wrote:
Oleski wrote:
Alpinebear wrote:
Ski resorts: the ski lifts will remain closed at Christmas

If the ski resorts will be able to accommodate holidaymakers during the end-of-year holidays, the practice of alpine skiing on the slopes will not be authorized, however, confirmed the Prime Minister.


How does this make any bloody sense? They will open the virus spread hotspots but not the actual skiing where everyone stays apart and wears ski masks?


I think it may be due to the extra burden on the hospitals through ski injuries.


This ^^

The hospitals here in the Bourgogne-FranchComte are running at 120% of original capacity in the ICUs and the last few days we've seen and heard the evacuation helicopters overhead where they are moving patients around the country to cope with the number of cases....first time we've heard them since the first wave. It's better here than in the Savoie....

Adding in a bunch of skiers with broken bits is just going to make things so much harder for the hospitals.
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ski3 wrote:

They were only "virus spread hot spots " then as it was not observed most other places.


I meant the shops, restaurants, etc. Not the resorts themselves
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Handy Turnip wrote:
Oleski wrote:
Alpinebear wrote:
Ski resorts: the ski lifts will remain closed at Christmas

If the ski resorts will be able to accommodate holidaymakers during the end-of-year holidays, the practice of alpine skiing on the slopes will not be authorized, however, confirmed the Prime Minister.


How does this make any bloody sense? They will open the virus spread hotspots but not the actual skiing where everyone stays apart and wears ski masks?


I think it may be due to the extra burden on the hospitals through ski injuries.


That does seem to be the only justification for it.
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Being France there was a demonstration here this afternoon. I've just seen some photos on FB. Well attended, several hundred took part. Another in Bourg d'Oisans on Wednesday.
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More than 300 according to the press.

https://www.ledauphine.com/societe/2020/11/30/isere-montagne-les-deux-alpes-remontees-fermees-pour-noel-la-station-dit-non
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Claude B wrote:
More than 300 according to the press.

https://www.ledauphine.com/societe/2020/11/30/isere-montagne-les-deux-alpes-remontees-fermees-pour-noel-la-station-dit-non


There was one in bournemouth weekend before last couple hundred people, police just watched on, arrested two later on for some reason,
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@robs1, what, demonstrating that the ski lifts won’t be open for xmas?
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under a new name wrote:
@robs1, what, demonstrating that the ski lifts won’t be open for xmas?


Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Not bad given the permanent population is only 2000. Significantly less than Bournemouth wink I think there will be a lot more on Wednesday. 1000 turned up in Gap on Saturday. People are pretty pissed off. For Brits it's just a holiday, for these guys it's their livelihood.
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under a new name wrote:
@robs1, what, demonstrating that the ski lifts won’t be open for xmas?


Yes, not because they want to go but want shot of me for a month or surfing in my budgie smugglers snowHead Very Happy
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Have Macron and Castex been taking lessons from Johnson? Random checks, tests, quarantines and fines for French going skiing abroad in order to [very French and not easily translated by me but something like restoring the emotional equilibrium of the skiing public].

Does make me wonder if the Italian border is open, whether wife, her sis and family (French) go in one car, with no ski kit, ostensibly to do stuff for work and ( I - not French) follow with ski kit we get away with it?

Nothing like clarity or logic, eh. And here was me thinking that Macron’s teams comms had been pretty good a year ago rolling eyes
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I think french measures have consistently been more draconian, except for the summer and early autumn when they let things slip badly.

Is there any point in heading to Italy, they're closed too. Switzerland on the other hand ..... Especially as I still have a UK registered car wink Tbh I don't think I'll bother.
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under a new name wrote:
Have Macron and Castex been taking lessons from Johnson?


Just to reiterate something I said to Weathercam Castex takes orders from Macron, he has no control himself, he is more like a cabinet secretary than an PM. Macron decides, Castex executes. Castex didn't even know that Macron was going to close the ski resorts until he saw it on the TV the same time we did. He was obviously furious as he'd been talking to the ski resorts the day before to see what could be opened.

For Presidential candidate and Grenoble Mayor closing the ski resorts "is not a big deal for the French... I know that is going to annoy people but you have to put it into perspective". Even in Grenoble 90% of the population never go skiing - it is seen as a sport "des riches" and there is nothing the French detest more than rich people. He continued "the only reason for the decision is to protect the hospitals, the number of admissions in the winter is very high. Every winter when there is icy snow and good weather the head of the CHU asks if he will have to contact the prefect to close the ski resorts". Note that trauma doctors and nurses have been reassigned to Covid wards this winter so the hospital has less capacity than normal.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 2-12-20 10:25; edited 1 time in total
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@under a new name, they will not shut the Chatelard border crossing between Chamonix and Switzerland, and it is not manned in the evenings. I can see most of Chamonix heading to Verbier in December. Suspect it will start this weekend now the snow has arrived...
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Lifts open l'alpe d'Huez today

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What a pretty picture!!
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@Claude B, I'm not sure draconian is the word I'd use, maybe, maybe not. But when you look at what England has managed by not acting swiftly enough...

@davidof, yes, thanks, I had seen that point re Castex and it wasn't something I'd really noted before. It's interesting contrasting the general opinion of the population of Grenoble and the economic realities at micro level in resort (i.e. the main source of income for very many).

@BobinCH, TBH honest I don't think I could be bothered as I can see the queues. Would be much more excited if the very promising (heaps of artificial) snow on the XC tracks was ready to go.
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UK closed down sooner in the infection curve of the second wave than France, and suffered fewer casualties this time round.

Anyway, this morning the UK regulator approved the Pfizer vaccine, which is to be rolled out from next week. Hopefully the Oxford one will follow shortly. Unfortunately, EU countries have to wait for their own regulator - and God knows how long they will take, given they don't like working at weekends.
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mitcva wrote:
....and God knows how long they will take, given they don't like working at weekends.....


And don't forget two hours for lunch Laughing

And Briancon is totally opposite to Grenoble, in that a large percentage of the city even if they do not ski will know someone who makes a living from skiing and tourism.

But Briancon is a one-off, and I agree that a vast % of the French could not care, that said were Zooming with friends last night and people are booking for Xmas anyway if only to get away like they did in the Summer, and rates are well low, as per message from a friend below who has a number of appts as well as a Gite.

Hello Friends !
Hope you are all well and coping in these difficult times.
Beginning of this season is well different from last year in all means……
I’m very sad to informe you that this year we won’t be able to open the ski-areas here in the French Alps for Christmas and NewYear. Opening scheduled for mid-january.
Ski Lodge will open at this time and hoping to see you during this following season.
Meanwhile Snow is announced at the end of the week and Serre Chevalier will still be happy to see you if you are in the need of beautiful scenery, snow shoeing, cross country skiing, skating…….
During this period as ski lifts are closed we do a 40 - 50 % discount on our self catering apartments
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Quote:


Lifts open l'alpe d'Huez today


What's going on there? why there is people skiing? Shock @davidof,
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Charlieehr wrote:
Quote:


Lifts open l'alpe d'Huez today


What's going on there? why there is people skiing? Shock @davidof,


Ski clubs training on the Sarenne sector. Looks really nice and the runs down from the Marmottes 3 are great. There seem to be some elite skiers in resort at the moment for a training week.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Weathercam, Sis-in-law put her apartments (she has 4 + 1 chalet) on at summer rates (eff. 50% reduced) and the 3 bigger ones were booked 24 hours later. The smaller ones face more competition but only took 3 days to book up. And she only took French bookings (poor Spanish family, "we'd love to come, can you hold and see if we can get flights?", "Sorry, not this year")

She does have great photos though.

Yes, somewhat bemused, the local kids ski clubs will be using the lifts... there is a certain lack of logic.

And apparently Macron has asked the Spanish not to let French people ski in the Pyrenees.

World gone mad.
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Pretty big demo, 1000 to 1500 people in Bourg d'Oisans this morning.

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/economie-social/entre-1000-et-1500-personnes-a-bourg-d-oisans-ce-mercredi-pour-reclamer-l-ouverture-des-pistes-de-1606910827
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
mitcva wrote:
UK closed down sooner in the infection curve of the second wave than France, and suffered fewer casualties this time round.

Anyway, this morning the UK regulator approved the Pfizer vaccine, which is to be rolled out from next week. Hopefully the Oxford one will follow shortly. Unfortunately, EU countries have to wait for their own regulator - and God knows how long they will take, given they don't like working at weekends.


UK is still an EU country and is supposed to wait for European Medicines Agency to approve vaccine like other countries. However all EU countries still have the ability to give temporary emergency approval before EMA approval, which is what UK have done.

There is huge amount of data to analyse and it takes time. EU approval expected Dec 29. Even CDC not expected to approve this until I think Dec 12. UK has been criticised for rushing its approval, it is simply not possible they will have analyzed all data as well as EU or US. We have survived this pandemic for 9 months, one would wonder whether 3 extra weeks to analyzed everything as completely as possible is so terrible
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UK is most certainly not an EU country!

Yes, we can get emergency approval under an amendment made last October - our UK law changes ensure that vaccines ‘temporarily’ authorised under the EU’s regulations are treated in the same way as fully licensed products (although the EU stipulation ceases for us on Jan 1 anyway). So our regulator was empowered to go ahead, working all hours to get the job done. A month is s highly significant when it comes to saving lives. It has been estimated that vaccinating the most vulnerable 2 million people of the UK's 67 million will reduce covid-related deaths by 75 per cent.

But the EU is insisting that no individual EU country be allowed to exercise its own right of emergency approval. The EU is holding them back to a set date for the purposes of political "solidarity", as German health minister Jens Spahn has confirmed. Not surprisingly 27 cannot move as fast as 1 (especially when the EMA officials refuse to work weekends or nights, and the agency is allegedly unwilling to adapt its normal working procedures to meet an emergency). They've got Dec 28 in their diary, so that's that.

It's a bit like the way Germany and France are putting pressure on Austria about when it can or can't open its own ski resorts.
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Any EU country can apply emergency authorization prior to EMA approval, EU can't stop them. But certainly here in Ireland buy-in to vaccine may be compromised if anti-vaxers had ammo of saying it was not EU-approved etc. I understand that was major concern in Germany also why they did not also use emergency authorization, rather than political solidarity
I dont think expected approval date is anything to do with 27 countries moving slower than 1. The data review process takes time, usually months. I am not even sure all trial data is even fully available yet, but stand to be corrected

Also as I understand it, UK authorization applies only to specific batch of vaccine; so they will need another emergency authorization for next batch. But if this won't be till after 1 January clearly UK can change rules whatever way it wants

Probably there is little downside to UK early approval assuming population will be reassured by its own rather than EU approval, and I'm sure Pfizer will not be putting its reputation on line and we would not have repeat of Boeing /FAA corner cutting (one certainly hopes anyway!)
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It seems the proposed quarantine is purely political. If the sole reason to restrict French skiing is to protect ICU beds from ski injuries then what is the problem with people skiing, and having accidents in Switzerland?
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@zzz, but if you pesky skier types insist, Macron’s going to bring back attestations just for you who live in the Swiss border. Just be true, heard it this morning on the radio.

We’re Ok as there the Swiss border is two villages away.

In other news, Chamonix is not a town that receives “significant foreign tourism”.
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@mitcva, I think you are arrogating upon the EU a purview that it does not possess.

Germany: the EU is going to ban skiers

EU:? What? Who? Nuthin’ to do with us, bvgger off

Germany: the EU won’t release vaccine until we are all in agreement, because we asked them

EU:? What? Who? Nuthin’ to do with us, bvgger off

Rinse, repeat
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@under a new name, you must be joking? Will they have a police patrol on the Col de Cou?
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@zzz, I was half asleep but definitely, "skieurs insistents ... Suisse ... Macron ... reintroduire attestation ... stations sur la frontière"
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@under a new name, you must be joking?
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But attestations haven't gone away. With us until 15th at least.
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@Claude B, this is for post-15th.

@zzz, if it's on Radio Mont Blanc, must be true ... anyhoo this is the most recent published news, https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/le-gouvernement-veut-instaurer-une-quarantaine-pour-dissuader-les-francais-d-aller-skier-a-l-etranger-20201202 Castex and Macron are not making themselves look very sensible.
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davidof wrote:
Lifts open l'alpe d'Huez today



First thing in the morning? Otherwise it doesn't look worthwhile switching on the electric power for the lifts.
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