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Italy situation

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
According to Sciaremag.it the Italian government decreed last night that all ski lifts must close. Apparently the regions are fighting back and may be allowed to open with new, to be agreed safety protocols. Anyone know more about this?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mamma mia!! Shocked

Though I can't imagine many are open at this stage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
luigi wrote:
Though I can't imagine many are open at this stage.

Stelvio was open.
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https://www.sciaremag.it/notiziesci/nuovo-dpcm-si-va-verso-la-chiusura-ma-le-regioni-non-sono-daccordo/
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Seems Stelvio had to close, could have reopened in a few days with new protocols, but too close to the end of the summer ski season to bother reopening.
It's a worry if governments remember how big a factor in spreading Covid the ski resorts were!
Don't know what is happening at Cervinia?


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 25-10-20 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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This is also being reported in the Swiss press.

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/covid-19-ticker-international-340736159053
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I had a whatsapp message from a friend in Milan this morning and their opinion was that it was not looking good for skiing this winter in Italy. Lot of fuss over the reports from Cervinia of cable cars operating at max capacity and big queues etc. Maybe it will all get sorted .........
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Corvina currently closed.
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The Italian government has announced a number of measures such as bars and restaurants closing at 18:00. Sport facilities including ski resorts will be closed too. Currently planned to continue until the end of November. Report (in German) https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/coronavirus-weltweit-italien-polen-1.5081310
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muppet wrote:
Corvina currently closed.


Is that a typo for Cortina, Corvara or Cervinia? Puzzled Laughing

Edit: Given the time of year I guess it must be Cervinia..... Madeye-Smiley
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@Alastair Pink, yes, and it is ‘temporarily closed by decree’.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
‘Temporarily closed’


not surprising given these pics: http://www.rainews.it/dl/rainews/media/covid-19-lunghe-e-sciatori-stipati-in-funivia-si-apre-tra-le-polemiche-la-stagione-a-cervinia-1262e996-5bac-489f-b644-20bb448d4bde.html

Cable car at Grand Motte in summer was less crowded than these photos but it was also much less busy, see embedded photo.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Cervinia website banner says they are still waiting for news on how long the closure will be.

https://www.cervinia.it/en/inverno/skiarea
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Grinning, No wonder they have been closed, those photos show no regard to any distancing measures.
@Alastair Pink, Auto correct rolling eyes
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
muppet wrote:
No wonder they have been closed, those photos show no regard to any distancing measures.

Yebbut, if the lift is running at full capacity, what ya gonna do? Stand around until the queue goes down? Gonna be a while... If everyone is wearing a mask (they seem to be), then that's it, them's the rules. Don't blame the customers, take it up with the decision makers.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Scarlet wrote:
muppet wrote:
No wonder they have been closed, those photos show no regard to any distancing measures.

Yebbut, if the lift is running at full capacity, what ya gonna do? Stand around until the queue goes down? Gonna be a while... If everyone is wearing a mask (they seem to be), then that's it, them's the rules. Don't blame the customers, take it up with the decision makers.


Yes agree, should have seen the que here for any of the supermarkets early stages of covid era. Of course many pre-mask legislation too.

People getting on with their activities while observing prevailing rules, non story really and just one for the alarmist bell ringers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Memories of the Dollies late Feb/early March (when all the rest of N Italy was already in full lockdown). 'Cept there weren't masks then.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ski3 wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
muppet wrote:
No wonder they have been closed, those photos show no regard to any distancing measures.

Yebbut, if the lift is running at full capacity, what ya gonna do? Stand around until the queue goes down? Gonna be a while... If everyone is wearing a mask (they seem to be), then that's it, them's the rules. Don't blame the customers, take it up with the decision makers.


Yes agree, should have seen the que here for any of the supermarkets early stages of covid era. Of course many pre-mask legislation too.

People getting on with their activities while observing prevailing rules, non story really and just one for the alarmist bell ringers.


The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.
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achilles wrote:
ski3 wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
muppet wrote:
No wonder they have been closed, those photos show no regard to any distancing measures.

Yebbut, if the lift is running at full capacity, what ya gonna do? Stand around until the queue goes down? Gonna be a while... If everyone is wearing a mask (they seem to be), then that's it, them's the rules. Don't blame the customers, take it up with the decision makers.


Yes agree, should have seen the que here for any of the supermarkets early stages of covid era. Of course many pre-mask legislation too.

People getting on with their activities while observing prevailing rules, non story really and just one for the alarmist bell ringers.


The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.


In scale against current world events..........nope. it's still a non story.

No person there is even playing beer-pong that well known instigator and propogator superior of the virus Toofy Grin
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achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink
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If we can't fly to Italy and a resort is open we're driving out.. Until the death rate exceeds normal excess death rates why worry
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Scarlet wrote:
achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink


Probably is. But if you approve a bus brake design and it turns out to be flaky, you stop passengers getting on the buses, even though it’s not the passengers fault that they are missing out on their trips.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
yorkshirelad wrote:
If we can't fly to Italy and a resort is open we're driving out.. Until the death rate exceeds normal excess death rates why worry
but you what about travelling through other countries?
Assuming you will also have a nightover stop.

Best hope atm is a late season break if theres an early vaccine.
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achilles wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink


Probably is. But if you approve a bus brake design and it turns out to be flaky, you stop passengers getting on the buses, even though it’s not the passengers fault that they are missing out on their trips.


That's nothing in the way of a competent analogy, is it?

Each of those people in the que has made the decision to enter that environment, making those decisions with the law, conduct, and practicalities layed out in front of them.

Theyve accepted the risk, therefore there's a very different view of the considerations and consequences.

They are participating in the decision, not being coerced onto a bus with shonky brakes.
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Scarlet wrote:
achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink


But infection figures today are 20k
2 weeks ago it was 5k
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Either way, it's not the fault of the customers, they are not to blame.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My verbalisation won't be good here but I think I would have looked at the queue and felt quite uncomfortable about being so close to random strangers. The rules may be the rules but also any plan is tested against the first engagement with reality and needs reassessment, in this case a rethink is required no matter how desperate we all are to ski this season.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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@Scarlet, If the customers are spreading the virus then it is their fault Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ski3 wrote:
achilles wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink


Probably is. But if you approve a bus brake design and it turns out to be flaky, you stop passengers getting on the buses, even though it’s not the passengers fault that they are missing out on their trips.


That's nothing in the way of a competent analogy, is it?

Each of those people in the que has made the decision to enter that environment, making those decisions with the law, conduct, and practicalities layed out in front of them.

Theyve accepted the risk, therefore there's a very different view of the considerations and consequences.

They are participating in the decision, not being coerced onto a bus with shonky brakes.


The consequences perceived by the skiers is not the point. What matters is what the public health folk think is the threat to their and other countries' health systems, and the infection risk to a variety of nations' populations.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Difficult situation : The obvious problem with skiing isnt just cable cars. People traveling from all over ( .. then back home) to ski is arguably a much bigger issue if we wish to reduce spread of virus.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Some news sites are reporting that ski resorts will be allowed to open following some check of the safety measures they have in place Puzzled

Quote:
The resorts can open to them once specific guidelines are adopted and validated by the Technical-Scientific Committee
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
stevew wrote:
My verbalisation won't be good here but I think I would have looked at the queue and felt quite uncomfortable about being so close to random strangers. The rules may be the rules but also any plan is tested against the first engagement with reality and needs reassessment, in this case a rethink is required no matter how desperate we all are to ski this season.


So whose risk are you making assessments of, your own, or the people in the que?

Those that have made the same assessment as you are unlikely to be in the que in all reality. Clever a?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

Difficult situation : The obvious problem with skiing isnt just cable cars. People traveling from all over ( .. then back home) to ski is arguably a much bigger issue if we wish to reduce spread of virus.

+1
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ski3 wrote:
stevew wrote:
My verbalisation won't be good here but I think I would have looked at the queue and felt quite uncomfortable about being so close to random strangers. The rules may be the rules but also any plan is tested against the first engagement with reality and needs reassessment, in this case a rethink is required no matter how desperate we all are to ski this season.


So whose risk are you making assessments of, your own, or the people in the que?

Those that have made the same assessment as you are unlikely to be in the que in all reality. Clever a?


This is where I think the argument breaks down - why should I by law be required to wear a seatbelt then if I accept the risk of not wearing one, the same way someone accepts to put themselves in an elevated situation of catching/spreading the virus?
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Later closing times for bars and restaurants in South Tyrol than what the Italian government are announcing :

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&pto=aue&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.altoadige.it/cronaca/covid-19-nuove-misure-in-alto-adige-chiusure-anticipate-di-bar-e-ristoranti-e-coprifuoco-dalle-23-1.2454723&usg=ALkJrhibVnmtJi1PngPL_EE3vev44LNxdw
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MorningGory wrote:
If the customers are spreading the virus then it is their fault Very Happy

No, it's really not.

I haven't been following the situation or rules in Italy that closely, not beyond having a rough idea what's going on in Europe anyway. But as far as I can see, the rules being applied in ski areas are the same(ish) as in Austria, so I can comment on those as the thinking behind them is probable pretty similar. Cable cars/gondolas are classed as public transport and so the rules applied to them are the same as for buses and trains. Lifts have generally been at lower capacity all summer, just because the demand is lower, so crowding has not been a problem. However, people are crammed into buses at rush hour every weekday, but they have to wear masks so it is considered acceptable.

You can query how well masks work when crammed in like sardines, but as far as the govt is concerned, mask on = no virus rolling eyes

There have been and will continue to be complaints, and people in countries where transport capacity has been reduced are shocked and scared. But you really cannot complain about the customers – this is how it is and how it has been all summer in certain situations.

Also, the massive increases in cases in Italy and elsewhere will not be because a ski lift or two suddenly opened and got busy.
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achilles wrote:
ski3 wrote:
achilles wrote:
Scarlet wrote:
achilles wrote:
The non story is that the situation was not good enough - even if technically the rules were being observed. I agree with the authorities.

So you* spend all summer devising a load of rules to allow ski areas to operate, they open and everyone follows the rules, and you close them immediately because of an outcry? Sounds like the rules are inadequate, but that's not the fault of the skiers, and probably goes higher up than the resort operators so not their fault either. Probably down to those same authorities.

*Not you personally, obvs wink


Probably is. But if you approve a bus brake design and it turns out to be flaky, you stop passengers getting on the buses, even though it’s not the passengers fault that they are missing out on their trips.


That's nothing in the way of a competent analogy, is it?

Each of those people in the que has made the decision to enter that environment, making those decisions with the law, conduct, and practicalities layed out in front of them.

Theyve accepted the risk, therefore there's a very different view of the considerations and consequences.

They are participating in the decision, not being coerced onto a bus with shonky brakes.


The consequences perceived by the skiers is not the point. What matters is what the public health folk think is the threat to their and other countries' health systems, and the infection risk to a variety of nations' populations.


You appear to speaking as if there's no activity in any shape or form currently, when in reality so many people have expected "other's " to supply their need without so much thought as to risk.

It's certainly not that everyone may have carte blanche to act as they please with no consideration. But to participate in something that has been assessed as practical to proceed, and is within the control of those laying on the activities, is really up to them.

It would certainly be competent for them to review the effects, based within factual analysis and not with the hysteria many insist on bringing to these debates.

Still a non story, just bell ringing hysteria.
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extremerob wrote:
ski3 wrote:
stevew wrote:
My verbalisation won't be good here but I think I would have looked at the queue and felt quite uncomfortable about being so close to random strangers. The rules may be the rules but also any plan is tested against the first engagement with reality and needs reassessment, in this case a rethink is required no matter how desperate we all are to ski this season.


So whose risk are you making assessments of, your own, or the people in the que?

Those that have made the same assessment as you are unlikely to be in the que in all reality. Clever a?


This is where I think the argument breaks down - why should I by law be required to wear a seatbelt then if I accept the risk of not wearing one, the same way someone accepts to put themselves in an elevated situation of catching/spreading the virus?


If it was just a risk on ourselves and those in the queue then "you" can make a risk judgement but "you" can infect people beyond those in the immediate vincity so it becomes a wider public health issue.
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It is only October.
To imagine that ski resorts will be open on January is pure fantasy.

Sorry, but true.
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stevew wrote:
extremerob wrote:
ski3 wrote:
stevew wrote:
My verbalisation won't be good here but I think I would have looked at the queue and felt quite uncomfortable about being so close to random strangers. The rules may be the rules but also any plan is tested against the first engagement with reality and needs reassessment, in this case a rethink is required no matter how desperate we all are to ski this season.


So whose risk are you making assessments of, your own, or the people in the que?

Those that have made the same assessment as you are unlikely to be in the que in all reality. Clever a?


This is where I think the argument breaks down - why should I by law be required to wear a seatbelt then if I accept the risk of not wearing one, the same way someone accepts to put themselves in an elevated situation of catching/spreading the virus?


If it was just a risk on ourselves and those in the queue then "you" can make a risk judgement but "you" can infect people beyond those in the immediate vincity so it becomes a wider public health issue.


That's already in our prescribed behaviour in that we are required to make an assessment of our own status with regard to covid infection, self isolate, test and await the results if we have any cause to believe that we've contracted it. That's our primary social / moral contract.

Given that, it's reasonable to act in accordance with prevailing allowances in participating and open facilities.
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