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Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
abc wrote:
Handy Turnip wrote:
michaelbury17 wrote:
@VolklAttivaS5, To be honest I think this option is probably the only one we will get, if we are (very) lucky.

The outlook long term doesn't look great from where I am rolling eyes wink


I'm not sure it is. As much as holding off into Jan for as long as possible to ensure that you can then open for the rest of the season sounds entirely logical - I'm not sure Covid and it's waves work quite like that. There is a possibly that the ski resorts could stay shut over Christmas and New Year, with the view of opening in Jan - but then a third wave hitting in Feb before a vaccination has had a chance to have any impact, opening up the possibility of the resorts losing both Feb half term and Christmas/New Year, which would be a financial disaster.

With cases on a slight downward curve, and the possibility of restrictions being eased for Christmas - resorts might take the view that it's better to bank Christmas/New Year, even it means sacrificing January (with the view that it still gives them a chance of getting back for Feb).

All complete conjecture of course, but just pointing out that this all could go many ways...

People need to wake up to the reality that Covid loves crowds!

So the whole idea of “banking” on Christmas/ny and half term are exactly the situation to AVOID!


I'm not disagreeing, covid does love crowds - but crowds generally bring money, which businesses generally need. Which is why general lockdown restrictions are to ease as we enter the busiest period of winter - why, because businesses are 'banking' on that money to stay afloat. Not saying that's right or wrong, but it appears to be how things are being managed

Ski resorts can stay shut over Christmas, and that would undeniably help - but it's apparent that a lot of the rest of the economy is going to open and so cases could start to rise again in a post-Christmas spike. So in closing, ski resorts won't have guaranteed a January opening in any way and have missed out on the Christmas boost that the rest of the economy have got.

And with no way of knowing if a third wave might hit, there's no guaranteed that we won't be in lockdown in Feb.

Not sure how many ski businesses would survive if they lost Christmas and Feb..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Government minister says we should avoid travelling within the UK but can go abroad to go skiing...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
yorkshirelad wrote:
Government minister says we should avoid travelling within the UK but can go abroad to go skiing...


Yes but that was Grant Shapps, that well known shyster, and he was entirely unconvincing in his responses. Pretty much par for the course for Government ministers. Crap comms.
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Of course it's crap.. I've followed and kept records of most of the conflicting information that is put out there by ONS.. PHE. SAGE. etc. But you have to hang on to some hope to go skiing.. I'm not giving up..
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-ski/italy-seeking-eu-rules-for-christmas-skiing-to-limit-covid-19-risk-idUSKBN28416Y

And another article about Italy wanting the other EU resorts to stay closed over Xmas...
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L0ve2ski wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-ski/italy-seeking-eu-rules-for-christmas-skiing-to-limit-covid-19-risk-idUSKBN28416Y

And another article about Italy wanting the other EU resorts to stay closed over Xmas...


It doesn’t surprise me, there was a hotspot at an Northern Italy ski resort on March.

Although international travel should be allowed from next week as it was with the previous 3 tiers, it just seems impossible.

Italy’s entry rules from the UK are a PCR or antigen test 72 hours prior to travel but NHS testing cannot be used. I think the private ones are in the region of £100. The other option which seems a bit riskier is the free test at an Italian airport on arrival but you must self isolate until the results arrive but they have rapid testing (unclear if free) with one hour results. With this option you can’t leave the airport for the hour. The issue is if you test positive, you have to quarantine somewhere in Italy for up to 21 days. The other thing is we will no doubt have to queue to get our passports stamped even with a FTA. Then there is hopefully a reduced quarantine on return from 14 to 5 days in England...but Shapps said this bit and he probably only said it to test out his party divisions. It’s all looking rather grim Sad
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Handy Turnip wrote:

Ski resorts can stay shut over Christmas, and that would undeniably help - but it's apparent that a lot of the rest of the economy is going to open and so cases could start to rise again in a post-Christmas spike. So in closing, ski resorts won't have guaranteed a January opening in any way and have missed out on the Christmas boost that the rest of the economy have got.

I'm not suggesting ski areas to stay close when other business stays open. That wouldn't make much sense as skiing is the less risky activities.

Handy Turnip wrote:

Ski resorts can stay shut over Christmas, and that would undeniably help - but it's apparent that a lot of the rest of the economy is going to open and so cases could start to rise again in a post-Christmas spike. So in closing, ski resorts won't have guaranteed a January opening in any way and have missed out on the Christmas boost that the rest of the economy have got.

I'm not suggesting ski areas to stay close when other business stays open. That wouldn't make much sense as skiing is the less risky activities.

Quote:
Not sure how many ski businesses would survive if they lost Christmas and Feb.

Not to make light of the situation. But skiing business are probably better able to handle random closure better than many other businesses. After all, snow storms shut down villages sometimes. And lack of snow during holiday period also keeps crowd light. It's not so unusual to have a bad snow year either.

It's obviously not good for the business with any sort of interruption. But I would think many ski business had those interruption before so they know how to anticipate and manage?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
[quote="abc"]
Handy Turnip wrote:


Quote:
Not sure how many ski businesses would survive if they lost Christmas and Feb.

Not to make light of the situation. But skiing business are probably better able to handle random closure better than many other businesses. After all, snow storms shut down villages sometimes. And lack of snow during holiday period also keeps crowd light. It's not so unusual to have a bad snow year either.

It's obviously not good for the business with any sort of interruption. But I would think many ski business had those interruption before so they know how to anticipate and manage?


I really hope you're right. I'd guess most ski businesses will have built snow storms and seasonality into their business models. In fact you could argue the situation could effect them more, as they didn't get a chance to make any revenue in the summer when cases dropped, and other businesses we're able to trade relatively normally.

But like you say, maybe that allows them to be more adaptable than other businesses - and in real terms, most ski businesses have only lost a month or so of peak revenue.

I'm hoping you're right!
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DaveD wrote:
Anyone seen this piece in the Telegraph......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/24/italys-ski-resorts-revolt-government-says-will-no-christmas/


That'll really test the old EU bonds of brotherhood that will! Can't see other countries wilfully shutting down their industry to make it fair on Italy's ski resorts...
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Hoping Macron will give more info on French ski resorts in his speech tonight at 8pm on next steps for their lockdown

although Prime Minister Jean Castex said yesterday "In view of the preparation time needed to allow for a possible opening for the end-of-year holidays, a decision will be taken within the next ten days. It will be made in the light of the evolution of the health situation, which must be the essential criterion, and taking care to be as consistent as possible with our neighbouring countries."
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Pastorius wrote:
DaveD wrote:
Anyone seen this piece in the Telegraph......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/24/italys-ski-resorts-revolt-government-says-will-no-christmas/


That'll really test the old EU bonds of brotherhood that will! Can't see other countries wilfully shutting down their industry to make it fair on Italy's ski resorts...


Looks like the premier of Bavaria is lobbying for the same thing. It'll be interesting to see if anywhere other than Switzerland remains open.
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We had accommodation booked for the 9th Jan (booked pre-covid), some of the group will struggle with quarantine so we've taken a decision to move the booking to Jan 2022. I'm hoping that a reduced group of us will go if the circumstances mean we can - should be plenty of last minute accommodation to be had, and it means we can follow the snow.
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So the governor of Salzburg has rubbished the Italian notion of having ski areas closed over Christmas. They will be open for Austrians he says, but if other nations cannot visit, then so be it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Just throwing out there as I am new that we are hoping to go to meribel for Xmas
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@L0ve2ski, welcome to snowHead - and the best of luck with that
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Thank you @Yoda
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@queenie pretty please, Pardon my ignorance but does the Governor of Salzburg over-ride central government in these decisions?
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@GeorgeVII, no, but for him to say something like that would suggest that he is already in talks with central government. It's not like the UK here, people do not bandy about meaningless statements.
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@queenie pretty please, It was just that the events of March are still pretty fresh in my mind. Friday night in the Savoie... Happys Days!! The ski resorts will NOT be closing! Saturday Night..... Bye everyone.. (Including those just arrived and still unpacking)



Turns out that It wasn't the "locals" decision to make. rolling eyes
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@GeorgeVII, We got home that night. We skied the last week of the season in Les Arcs, down shopping in Bourg, not a mention of COVID anywhere. Even getting the Eurostar out on the Saturday morning, 14th, not a word, all was fine in France. We knew Switzerland, Italy and Austria were deep in the doo doo but not France. They let everyone travel when it was obvious there was an issue...
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We drove back from France to the UK on the 14th March. I kid you not, literally as we came out the other side of the tunnel it had just been announced that the resorts were going to shut.
And we all brought COVID home with us!
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[quote="abc"]
Handy Turnip wrote:

Quote:
Not sure how many ski businesses would survive if they lost Christmas and Feb.


Not to make light of the situation. But skiing business are probably better able to handle random closure better than many other businesses. After all, snow storms shut down villages sometimes. And lack of snow during holiday period also keeps crowd light. It's not so unusual to have a bad snow year either.

It's obviously not good for the business with any sort of interruption. But I would think many ski business had those interruption before so they know how to anticipate and manage?


For the accomodation and restaurant businesses (with Devil as usual in the detail and it's nuanced) sort of, more or less, the bread and butter income is taken during the high weeks, being the two weeks of xmas and new year and the 5 weeks of the winter February holidays. It takes a very poor winter snowfall to impact xmas & NY and it would be a very odd winter season indeed to not have snow mid February.

It's quite complicated though and I'll really struggle to do anything but grotesquely over simplify it. But in terms of paying beds, those weeks are way more important. The element I think you haven't factored in is that the bread and butter business are families who will arrive for 1-2 weeks, booking Saturday-Saturday. It's not (very) snow dependent and certainly isn't affected by a day or so of resort closure due to weather.

Anyway, long and short of it is that certainly around here ski businesses are pretty precarious at the best of times, definitely not in any better shape than anyone else to deal with the vagaries of the crisis and xmas and new year are very important indeed. (I think the stats mentioned in Italy were that those 2 weeks made up 40% of seasonal revenues?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
for me and mine any thoughts of going out around xmas are lost more to do with the chance/possibility of seeing friends and family weve not seen for months here in uk.Then that would rule out jan as the restrictions will come down again in force and the resorts will be run in such a way that it will not be enjoyable, cant see us doing feb as probably wont be in the vaccine count by then and paying extra for private tests and any form of self isolation at one or both ends will rule that idea out. march on the other hand may just be possible on all fronts mentioned but by then the ski areas could well be shut due to increasing cases in resort in the preceding couple of months as folks from various places mingle . Im still holding out a glimmer of hope but it will all be last minute
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Judging from Macron's address tonight it looks like they will try to open the French ski resorts in mid Jan
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Just read an interesting article on Planet ski about the Italian PM urging against ski holidays.

https://planetski.eu/2020/11/24/italians-urged-not-to-go-skiing/
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@extremerob, keep up, old news Crying or Very sad
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Must have missed it being posted earlier - Macron's words tonight if anyone is interested in how he phrased it : "Il me semble impossible d'envisager une ouverture des stations de ski pour les fêtes de fin d'année" - which leaves a bit of wiggle room - lets see how it plays out over the next few days
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My money is on 9th Jan....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@extremerob, I believe there was a response asking if he closed his beaches.
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esaw1 wrote:
My money is on 9th Jan....


Yeah, day we're supposed to be coming home from VT Mad
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Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

I'd guess most ski businesses will have built snow storms and seasonality into their business models. In fact you could argue the situation could effect them more, as they didn't get a chance to make any revenue in the summer when cases dropped, and other businesses we're able to trade relatively normally.

@Handy Turnip, Here in Saalbach the summer tourist season was actually busier than usual - at least it seemed so to us. Lots of walkers, mountain bikers, e-bikers, and holidaying families. Maybe a few hotels that would normally have been open were closed, but it wasn't noticeable.
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@tatmanstours, yes fair point. I think there are a number of ski resorts that have busier summer seasons than winter (morzine?)


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 25-11-20 9:33; edited 1 time in total
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esaw1 wrote:
My money is on 9th Jan....


Why that particular hunch out of interest? Macron mentioned 3 dates, the only Jan date was the 20th.
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20th Jan is the earliest for FR ski resorts.

Eliminates the USSR brigade

Perfect for UK weekend warriors Toofy Grin
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Actually re-reading some of the news reports, Macron is going to update in 10 days after liasing with his European partners. So while he doesn't envisage them opening before Jan, he's trying to coordinate it with other countries - which probably means that skiing will sit outside the 3 timelines he's set.

(bit of guesswork!!!!)
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I have just heard from a very reliable source that (french) resorts will probably not open in December - clearly this is terrible new for all involved.
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So what are views on paying balances, we have a few weeks yet and are booked February HT?

We could pay and take the chance we go (but will the experience this season be worth the money, its not just the skiing its quality time with the kids), cancel and write off HT or perhaps we'll pay and in the interim the TO goes under as writing off Christmas must make a huge dent in seasonal revenue.
No idea how easy it is to claim from ABTA.
Flexibility is key this season not so easy with kids at school sadly.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Charliee, not really news ... keep up!

@Handy Turnip, "dinner" seasons Puzzled Puzzled "busier summer than winter". Depends very much how you measure it. And Morzine, afaik, doesn't? (If it does now, it's a fairly recent phenomenon). "Chamonix", I think, technically does, in terms of visitor numbers, but with e.g. lots of day trippers who don't spend a lot of money and clearly don't stay in accommodation or spend much money in nice restaurants in the evening... but all ride up and down the Aiguille du Midi. First few weeks of August can be pretty rammed - but again, accommodation rates nowhere near as high.

A transient covid effect, a friend runs a restaurant in Monterosa and had a bumper summer this year - a sort of post-confinement, must get to the mountains, must go to a restaurant at last, bonus. It's not expected to be repeated.
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James77 wrote:
So what are views on paying balances, we have a few weeks yet and are booked February HT?


A lot can change in a few weeks so if you still have time before you need to pay the balance then it's worth holding off making any decsion. I think a lot will happen over the next couple of weeks which will hopefully make things clearer (or maybe not!). Once you get nearer to that point, it may be worthwhile talking to the owner and see if you can negotiate a slight extension. It's a strange time for everyone, and the owner will be worried about the coming season, so may offer you some flex.
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Charliee wrote:
I have just heard from a very reliable source that (french) resorts will probably not open in December - clearly this is terrible new for all involved.


that was announced last night! looks like they're shut till mid jan at the earliest
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