 Poster: A snowHead
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@yorkshirelad, I would normally be somewhat glued to the MR webcams and thinking about a sneaky weekend end of November ... hey ho.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thank you for that!
I imagine if people have to take off an extra 5 days to go on a 7 day holiday that would put people off as well. Really it would be an extra 3 days if you went Sat-Sat but that's still going to put people off I would have thought!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Pastorius, I'd say it's a whole level of magnitude better though.
True, some people won't be any better off for it but others... for example, some may be in a position to work from home for half a week when it would be unfeasible for them to spend 2 weeks doing so.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@admin, yes 100%. It may not work for some but rather than putting a lot of people off, that news could actually make it feasible for a lot of people!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Where some people see problem, others see opportunity. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| admin wrote: |
@Pastorius, I'd say it's a whole level of magnitude better though.
True, some people won't be any better off for it but others... for example, some may be in a position to work from home for half a week when it would be unfeasible for them to spend 2 weeks doing so. |
Absolutely, it's a huge step in the right direction, don't get me wrong! Encouraging.
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| Checkflaps wrote: |
I was listening to BBC 5Live the other day (Emma Barnett, I think) and this 'balance' issue came up, and she said they (The BBC) will not allow 'anti-vaxxers' on air to debate with scientists about the merits of vaccination to give a balanced argument, as in effect, there is no evidence to support what they purport. Science will acknowledge that no vaccine is 100% safe, but giving air time to conspiracy theorists in a sensible debate thankfully won't be happening (apparently). |
Nothing in life is 100% safe. Getting out of bed in the morning has a measurable death rate from it. That is every year in the UK somewhere between 20-30 people die getting out of bed every morning. However if you don't get out of bed the chances are it would be significantly more detrimental to your life expectancy.
There are plenty of meme's about the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide, but if you do drink too much water to quickly it can and does kill.
It reminds me of something on the TV some years ago now about MMR, where some idiot asked a medical expert if they could guarantee that the MMR jab was 100% safe. He correctly said no he could not, so the idiot then said she wanted separate vaccines for her children. the idiot (because that is what she was) didn't ask the obvious question as to whether the separate jabs where 100% safe, which of course they are not.
We are back to don't take the vaccine if you don't want, but unless you have a genuine medical reason for not doing so then you get to pick up the tab for any care you may need as a result of catching it.
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The MMR comparison isn't a fair one though is it? Over 500 million doses of that vaccine have been given (wiki) over a number of decades.... idiotic to question the safety of it. On the other hand with the very limited track record of the covid vaccines there is clearly more rational grounds for some concern. That said I will be signing-up, just think it's unfair to tar anyone expressing reservations as an "anti-vaxer".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Apparently Italy asking neighbouring countries to agree not to open up for skiing till after Christmas. Parts of Austria think it's a good idea, other parts saying they want to open on 19th Dec..... Haven't heard reaction from French yet. Andy from Snowcamps seems to think Austria will open to mass tourism on 9th Jan. No links. Just hearsay.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
@astribo Aren't you just fitting the data to your own individual world-view?
'I'd dare say majority on this site fit that demographic.'
- You can't possibly know that. I don't think even admin knows it, as the data is voluntary.
'they are overwhelmingly older people who are vulnerable as they already have poor health'
- Isn't this conflating poor health with 'pre-existing conditions'? Most people over 45 have some sort of pre-existing condition. 35% of guys over 50 have high blood pressure. 1 in 3 guys over 50 have BHP. And so on. You're characterising those seriously affected as almost all elderly and seriously ill. Which is not the case.
'For me the reaction (lockdown/ economic ruin) does not match the problem.'
- For me, this is the politicians' False Alternative: it isn't a case of a few slightly early elderly deaths vs dire economic impact. Whatever we did, the outcome was going to be dire economic impact. It was a matter of minimising this along with minimising the health impact too. There was never a way to 'buy' jobs with corresponding deaths.
' log the predicted high volume of adverse reactions'
- No one is predicting any particular level. But there will be some, it's inevitable. So we need a good mechanism for tracking them. This is standard procedure.
'Protect the vulnerable..open the world'
- Protect the Vulnerable is a useful slogan, but it's too often taken to mean 'isolate the vulnerable'. Which is impossible if you think about it. There is no way protecting the vulnerable allows 'everyone else' to get 'back to normal'. It's a nice soundbite for Ministers and yes, reminds people to think more carefully about their contacts, but it's no sort of solution - the only 'solution' is a comprehensive immunisation programme.
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@LAForet- Well I think you are fitting my language to your own world view! Lets agree to disagree; after all this is still a free country (just).
@j_b - thanks for another reasoned response, it could well be that they were planning for the worst and needed the legislation to do that. I hope now that the stated worst case scenario (from Whitty/ Valance) of 4000 deaths per day by mid November has been proven totally off the mark then the government may be able to take the time to license any vaccine rather that release it unlicensed.
Regarding the topic and Boris' latest announcement today can anyone tell if there is going to be travel restrictions post December 2nd that will stop us indulging in our raison d etre???
I have only read the BBC site so far and can see that tiers will apparently be stricter than they were and that there will be a further announcement on Thursday.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Guidance I saw today is that foreign travel allowed in all tiers, subject to FCO advice / quarantine etc. This was on the BBC News app. Will just be dependent on whether you can travel across Europe once you get there. Waiting for the French announcement tomorrow as have to pay the balance of our trip on Wednesday!
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Switzerland 
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You know it makes sense.
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Long time no see, @Whitegold
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 23-11-20 21:41; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks @astribo, the accolade "reasoned response" is one of the nicest things said about me on Snowheads.
I don't actually think vaccines will be released unlicensed. It probably needs the "emergency use authorisation" to trigger manufacturing scale-up and the first test of distribution and vaccination chains. But that could be authorisation limited to the most vulnerable groups while the further data is obtained for subsequent full authorisation.
The good thing about the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine is that it can be distributed via the normal fridge temperature NHS supply chains, wheras the Pfizer one in particular will need special arrangements that will limit its use. However detailed sub analysis of the various data will no doubt indicate whether one or other is preferentially reserved for particular groups, and in the case of AZ the optimum dose regime.
As @Susang73 says, the key now for us is what France decides about travel - and indeed about ski resort opening.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just seen on the beeb that quarantine will be reduced to 5 days with travellers paying for a private test on day 5 - for England, from Dec 15th. Now to wait for whatever Nicola proclaims for Scotland.
Maybe a glimmer of hope...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i'm just hoping the Chillfactor can open on the 2nd december...i want to try out my new skis..!!!!.after that i'm living in hope for 9th going to italy, but bars need to be open as well though
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Rookiescot, It's great news but mainly if you don't have kids and work from home (ideally). I'd like to see the corridor rules revised as 20 cases per 100,000 is ridiculously low, if anyone has heard or read any gems of info on that?
I wonder how many parents would take their children out of school for a week ski holiday in Feb HT, Easter would be fine having 2 weeks which is encouraging.
What is the timeline on the French announcements, presume there is much discussion on when/how ski stations can open and who can go?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rookiescot wrote: |
Just seen on the beeb that quarantine will be reduced to 5 days with travellers paying for a private test on day 5 - for England, from Dec 15th. Now to wait for whatever Nicola proclaims for Scotland.
Maybe a glimmer of hope... |
I wouldn't hold your breath. I think all devolution has shown is that having 4 parties in power who hate each other leads to bad national decisions. What ever London decides everyone else will do different just to try gain some political points. We have assembly elections in Wales in May 2021 so our useless Labour run government are doing everything different to try gain votes. If you don't like the Tories, then pop over Wales and see what 20+ years of Labour rules does for a country. Completely forked we are.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes, I am even more optimistic now. Usual early Jan weekend trip, probably no though (10% chance?). Feb half-term S/C, tunnel booked (refundable ticket - 66.66%?). When the vaccine news arrived two weeks ago, I admit I got a bit excited and ordered replacement winter tyres straight away (Hankook i-cept EVO, as previous). Am currently seeking redeployment, in the unfortunate event this is unsuccessful early 2021, late season March/April also looking a favourable option (98%?). In the meantime - South'kipa!
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| Rookiescot wrote: |
Just seen on the beeb that quarantine will be reduced to 5 days with travellers paying for a private test on day 5 - for England, from Dec 15th. Now to wait for whatever Nicola proclaims for Scotland.
Maybe a glimmer of hope... |
I wouldn't hold your breath. I think all devolution has shown is that having 4 parties in power who hate each other leads to bad national decisions. What ever London decides everyone else will do different just to try gain some political points. We have assembly elections in Wales in May 2021 so our useless Labour run government are doing everything different to try gain votes. If you don't like the Tories, then pop over Wales and see what 20+ years of Labour rules does for a country. Completely forked we are. |
Exactly what I fear will happen.... got to be different to Boris.
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| James77 wrote: |
@Rookiescot, It's great news but mainly if you don't have kids and work from home (ideally). I'd like to see the corridor rules revised as 20 cases per 100,000 is ridiculously low, if anyone has heard or read any gems of info on that?
I wonder how many parents would take their children out of school for a week ski holiday in Feb HT, Easter would be fine having 2 weeks which is encouraging.
What is the timeline on the French announcements, presume there is much discussion on when/how ski stations can open and who can go? |
Macron is making an announcement tonight. Think decision on ski resorts in 10days.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Rookiescot, I think they have up to 10 days to decide. It does seem (per various Italian papers) that Italy is asking France to remain closed.
Which is a bit of an odd old concept. Given the sums of money involved, I don't think back scratching political solidarity should feature enormously.
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| esaw1 wrote: |
| Apparently Italy asking neighbouring countries to agree not to open up for skiing till after Christmas. Parts of Austria think it's a good idea, other parts saying they want to open on 19th Dec..... Haven't heard reaction from French yet. Andy from Snowcamps seems to think Austria will open to mass tourism on 9th Jan. No links. Just hearsay. |
Where's the hearsay from? Genuinely curious as 9th Jan would work out just about fine for me!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, @Rookiescot, the Italian government wants all ski areas across Europe to stay closed until at least January. Of course many Swiss areas are already open so this isn't being taken very seriously.
Austrian ski areas seem likely to open from mid-December, but possibly without foreign visitors.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Pastorius wrote: |
| esaw1 wrote: |
| Apparently Italy asking neighbouring countries to agree not to open up for skiing till after Christmas. Parts of Austria think it's a good idea, other parts saying they want to open on 19th Dec..... Haven't heard reaction from French yet. Andy from Snowcamps seems to think Austria will open to mass tourism on 9th Jan. No links. Just hearsay. |
Where's the hearsay from? Genuinely curious as 9th Jan would work out just about fine for me! |
From an entirely selfish point of view mid Jan onwards for ‘normality’ where you can go in mountain restaurants if you want would do me fine.
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@Pastorius, "hearsay", to the point it's reported in all the northern looking IT national papers... "La Stampa", etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@michaelbury17, for me I think it’s either have it all open properly or have it all closed.
The mountain restaurants and bars are something we all take for granted I think and when they are suddenly not available.....  don’t get me wrong I’ve taken a packed lunch out with me many a time depending on the circumstances but it doesn’t mean I don’t want the option to be able to go in somewhere on the mountain at all. I’d imagine this is even more important for people with kids.
They have businesses to run so like I say I think either have the lot open or not at all. For the businesses down the bottom like the ski schools etc after all they will get fewer customers if the bars and restaurants are closed because of the reasons I’ve stated so you think, well is it worth it for them to be paying staff etc if they’ve hardly any customers!
So difficult this for all of them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@VolklAttivaS5, whereas I'd happily take a packed lunch up everyday if it meant I was able to go and ski!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@dunc999, yeah there will be plenty who have that view too
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If mountain restaurants are closed then at least it will make it safer to ski in the afternoon, since there will be fewer drunks hooning about, just the hardcore who take their own alcohol with them. It constantly amazes me that people who would not dream of drinking and driving are still willing to drink at lunchtime and ski afterwards, an activity which needs balance and judgement, both impaired by just a small amount of alcohol.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abc wrote: |
| Handy Turnip wrote: |
| michaelbury17 wrote: |
@VolklAttivaS5, To be honest I think this option is probably the only one we will get, if we are (very) lucky.
The outlook long term doesn't look great from where I am   |
I'm not sure it is. As much as holding off into Jan for as long as possible to ensure that you can then open for the rest of the season sounds entirely logical - I'm not sure Covid and it's waves work quite like that. There is a possibly that the ski resorts could stay shut over Christmas and New Year, with the view of opening in Jan - but then a third wave hitting in Feb before a vaccination has had a chance to have any impact, opening up the possibility of the resorts losing both Feb half term and Christmas/New Year, which would be a financial disaster.
With cases on a slight downward curve, and the possibility of restrictions being eased for Christmas - resorts might take the view that it's better to bank Christmas/New Year, even it means sacrificing January (with the view that it still gives them a chance of getting back for Feb).
All complete conjecture of course, but just pointing out that this all could go many ways... |
People need to wake up to the reality that Covid loves crowds!
So the whole idea of “banking” on Christmas/ny and half term are exactly the situation to AVOID! |
In terms of COVID, maybe. In terms of keeping your ski resort open, it may be a risk worth taking if the government lets you.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Pastorius, "hearsay", to the point it's reported in all the northern looking IT national papers... "La Stampa", etc. |
Media hearsay, probably coming from within some department then. Not bad intel I suppose!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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apparently only 4000 odd cases in france yesterday......that's a huge drop in recent weeks
and one which would perhaps lead you to think an opening of resorts might be possible
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Anyone seen this piece in the Telegraph......https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/24/italys-ski-resorts-revolt-government-says-will-no-christmas/
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FAQ
