 Poster: A snowHead
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I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| thunderer wrote: |
| I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks. |
I had a fried who returned from Spain during the summer, shortly after the UK introduced quarantine arrangements for Spain. Her experience was the same as your's, flying in to LHR. Ditto my parents, flying in to Bristol in September. As far as my friend and my parents could tell, zero arrangements for people who hadn't already declared their arrival online to declare their arrival when they arrived at the airport.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think the self isolation was depending on the integrity of the individuals returning. Id love to go to our place in Austria. I know we can go, but would have to quarantine on our return. As all my social friends, work colleagues etc would know we have been, I personally couldnt not isolate. Its not in our nature to not follow the rules/advice.
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I guess that how they hope it will work, and it is trusted that most of the people follow most of the rules most of the time !!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| thunderer wrote: |
| I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks. |
But you’d presumably done your declaration online before travelling back? So checking it at the airport only checks those who haven’t completed it - if you’ve done it, they have your address etc, which is what they need? I’m surprised they even need to check at the airport - they know how many passengers are on the flight and they can checkl how many they’ve had completed - if the two numbers are the same why do they need to check?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| thunderer wrote: |
| I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks. |
I had a fried who returned from Spain during the summer, shortly after the UK introduced quarantine arrangements for Spain. Her experience was the same as your's, flying in to LHR. Ditto my parents, flying in to Bristol in September. As far as my friend and my parents could tell, zero arrangements for people who hadn't already declared their arrival online to declare their arrival when they arrived at the airport. |
We know several friends who have been contacted after returning from abroad. In both cases someone phoned and then knocked on the door several days later.
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| andy from embsay wrote: |
| thunderer wrote: |
| I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks. |
But you’d presumably done your declaration online before travelling back? So checking it at the airport only checks those who haven’t completed it - if you’ve done it, they have your address etc, which is what they need? I’m surprised they even need to check at the airport - they know how many passengers are on the flight and they can checkl how many they’ve had completed - if the two numbers are the same why do they need to check? |
Do you think its that joined up ??
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| thunderer wrote: |
Do you think its that joined up ?? |
Nope. But if you’ve filled your form in online it doesn’t matter if they check it at the airport or not - the airport is just to make sure you’ve completed it. If you have, then the phoney-uppy people can trace you (assuming you’ve not lied, which 1 in 5 are...). Nobody I know has been contacted.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I do wonder what's to stop you from lying - accidentally putting your phone number in incorrectly say?
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| Pastorius wrote: |
| I do wonder what's to stop you from lying - accidentally putting your phone number in incorrectly say? |
What if several passengers on the same flight came down with the disease and they might be calling you to get tested?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I suspect that people who deliberately fill the form in incorrectly would be very pleased with that turn of events - no phone call, no isolation. Irresponsible, yes, but people are people.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Pastorius wrote: |
| I suspect that people who deliberately fill the form in incorrectly would be very pleased with that turn of events - no phone call, no isolation. Irresponsible, yes, but people are people. |
But you're assuming people don't want to get tested?
What if you just have a mild sore throat? Not having the notification that you were on a plane with many other passengers testing positive means you more than likely ignore your symptom and not bother with a doctor visit till it got a lot worse. If you have underlying medical condition, that delay may cost your life (or quality of life, if you end up as a "long Covid").
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@abc, Or the overwhelming probability for the vast majority of people under 60 is that you will be fine, both immediately or in the long term.
I am sure there are some people who take a long time to recover from COVID but there are many serious viral illness which take a long recovery time (E.g. glandular fever) or a reflection of time on ICU.
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You know it makes sense.
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| skimastaaah wrote: |
| @pieman666, I went to the Post Office in Harrogate (nice staff, very helpful) and did the "Check and Send - Digital" application. Minutes later got confirmation from .Gov by text and email and can track progress on dedicated webpage. Sounds like you got a great result! |
New UK Passport arrived this morning. Tracked by TNT delivery, 8 days from application to receiving it. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
| Pastorius wrote: |
| I suspect that people who deliberately fill the form in incorrectly would be very pleased with that turn of events - no phone call, no isolation. Irresponsible, yes, but people are people. |
But you're assuming people don't want to get tested?
What if you just have a mild sore throat? Not having the notification that you were on a plane with many other passengers testing positive means you more than likely ignore your symptom and not bother with a doctor visit till it got a lot worse. If you have underlying medical condition, that delay may cost your life (or quality of life, if you end up as a "long Covid"). |
Yes because I think a lot of people won't want to be tested. If you test positive then you have to take time off work. Self employed people especially will be dreading this.
I think those that have underlying medical conditions, or are elderly will be eager to know if they've been around someone positive. Those who are young and fit will view it as a pain in the backside. Personally my work is very understanding so I'll stick with it but I could sympathise with the self employed.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| thunderer wrote: |
| I flew to Spain on Saturday for work, had my health declaration logged on the way in, returned on Monday morning, no checks what so ever at Manchester airport, and from what I could see nobody else got checked either, so I'm not sure how this self isolation will ever work, and I would guess that many on that airplane had no intention of self isolating for two weeks. |
I've come through Heathrow twice after quarantine restrictions were in place, travelling from a country requiring quarantine both times. Literally nobody checked anything whatsoever, not even so much as a reminder or suggestion that the form was required.
This is ok for little me, who pays attention and reads the news while abroad, but also on my flight were 200 other people many of which did not speak English, didn't check the UK news, weren't given any forms to fill in and, just like me, weren't asked for a moment whether they had filled in the form or told at any point that they weren't allowed onto the first train to Piccadilly circus for a night out.
Never received a text, phone call or visit during quarantine, which given I was one of a dozen flights arriving that day doesn't feel overly onerous for the government to organise. Then again, given the forms aren't getting filled in, and it is incredibly easy to "forget" to write a quarantine country on there when there is a convenient list of non-quarantine countries that auto correct might have selected for you, the whole thing is a joke.
This is why we have no control of the thing. Utter shambles somewhere it would be really easy to avoid a shambles. Checking with a family member in the police he confirmed there was absolutely no chance the police were coming round to check you were home, a friend in the border force confirmed it was nothing to do with them, so who exactly is checking on the people who have filled all these forms in? Precisely nobody.
I do know someone who got a call, though they basically answered it, said they were at home, and caller left it at that. If I had gone to work, the pub, down to Tesco, how would anyone know over the phone?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If only we knew. Daughter #2 just phoned earlier asking if Feb trip was on. She can now afford it and needs to book time off if I say it's a goer. Jeez, I'm not the bloody oracle.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@sequoiaborg, We went skiing the last week this year, there from the 7th to the 14th March. On the Monday (9th) March I had texts from my daughter saying there were good deals going for holidays in May to Barcelona, her & boyfriend thinking of going, what did I think and one son also text saying him and girlfriend had seen some cheap deals for holidays to Barcelona in April, what did I think. I suggested both leave it as I wasn't 100% sure they would be able to go and here we are 8 months later not even sure if we can go skiing in January 21!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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For all those saying that the lack of checking of PLF forms is a shambles then just think about the flip side...the outrage if every single person entering the UK has their forms manually checked on arrival. The queues would be ridiculous and the Daily Mail would be screaming from the rafters that it is a shambles...
There are two ways of dealing with it. A complete and absolute rule that is enforced in every single case regardless of the circumstances and knock on effects or a lighter touch where a percentage of people are checked but some form of international travel and normality is maintained.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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It doesn't have to add any time to the check-in process. As with the existing extra security checks for trace materials during heightened alerts, all it needs is separate agents walking along the queue to scan the QR code while you're waiting. Of course, there will always be a finite capacity even for this, so you just do what you can. But it'd be better than doing nothing at all. As I said before, when we went through Eurotunnel Immigration on a quiet day in September, there were virtually no queues, we already spent 90 seconds with the agent: her scanning a QR code would have only added 10 seconds at most to the process. One person walking along the two short queues for tickets and doing a scan would have added no extra time at all. Or people could have had their codes scanned on the train itself, as they do with the hanger bar code. It's all do-able. There's just not the will/funds/personnel/competence.
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It does add time. Extra checks add extra time.
Just checking the QR code is not enough as how do you know that the person in front of you is the same person as in the form? You have to check manually against the passport details to ensure that they are correct.
Where do these extra staff come from? The UK is at heightened state of terrorism alert at the moment so do you divert staff from checking for "trace materials" to check people's forms in a queue?
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Sorry, but it simply need not add significant extra time and anyway, even if you disagree and I concede that it will, isn't containing a pandemic as important as containing terrorism?
And the staffing is the rub. I was working at the Home Office when Teresa May cut UK Border Agency again and again and again (mainly to reinforce her Austerity credentials) and this is the price we pay. Of how many £billions extra being spent, is there not enough to get a few extra people at Eurotunnel to scan the waiting traffic queues? It's do-able. And if it isn't practical, then what's the point? It's just window-dressing.
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It need not add a significant amount of time but, per passenger transaction, it does. You (I believe two of you) went through the UK immigration control in 90 seconds. Call it two minutes per couple in a car (to take into account stopping, starting and manoevering the vehicle) and if you add a further 30 seconds to check the QR code matches both passport details then that is an increase of 25% per couple.
It takes months to recruit, vet, train and sign off new Border Force staff. The work you suggest could be outsourced to other companies but, in the current climate and given the quality of outsourced work, I would think that the public wouldn't be happy with this.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It just seems to me the whole thing is the typical half-measure-too-late that is proving so disastrous. If you're going to do, do it properly, otherwise it's the worst of both worlds: a measure that makes it look like it's useful but is meaningless, other than to give people a false sense of security. We can catalogue the challenges indefinitely, but they are no excuse for basically not really bothering.
I've worked on the Home Office systems and I'd actually be the first to say streamlined QR reading integrated with existing ANPR at Eurotunnel and passport databases is more complex than a quick hack of a few web apps. But on the other hand, it's technically only moderately complex. It's almost an insult how crude the solution is, however. Basically a gov.uk web page, simple database, and PDF generator. The worst case situation of recognising the need for immigration controls and covid monitoring but a solution that would be barely acceptable as a 1st Year computer science college project.
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As in most things in life any and everything can be done if there is the will to do it and vice versa.
Some can find a problem for every solution.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sweden and Germany back on the quarantine list when coming into the UK. Limits skiing options a bit more, if they don't get re-added to the travel corridor list for the winter.
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In answer to the OP question. Feels increasing like no- unless we score some decent winter storms and you skin at home.
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You know it makes sense.
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Feels like the limiting factor is going to be government requirement to quarantine rather than any restrictions on arriving at the slopes. Adequate testing should be able to get around it but apparently that's not an option...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'd have thought the limiting factor would be travel insurance:
> Currently FCO advice is against all but essential travel for most of Europe (certainly most of the interesting pointy bits) which means you need a travel policy that specifically allows travel against that advice (most doesn't).
> The (probable) end of the EHIC scheme which means you need full health care coverage
> CV
I cant find a policy that covers all those things, at best I can do 2 out of three. I don't know how comfortable I'd be travelling with no coverage for CV when I might potentially need weeks in ICU.
Anyone had any bright ideas?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sproot, try a search - this is just yet another thread on the topic (sorry low boredom threshold) and a number of policies have been debated
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I too have flown into LHR twice during this years pandemic. First time (in July) I filled in the Passenger Locator form dutifully upon return. I noted that as opposed to Spain where there was a temperature check and a scan of the health declaration QR code form there were no extra checks on arrival just standard passport control. During isolation I had no phone-calls, no knocks on the door.
Second time in September I thought Id experiment and not fill in the Locator form and guess what? No checks at border, no phone-calls, no knocks on the door.
My conclusion is that there is no specific agency doing this work systematically. It may have found its way haphazardly to some of the newly hired contact tracers for the few who claim to have been contacted or the press claim have been fined. Working in local government and as a previous poster said I'd assume Border Force is overworked, understaffed and demoralised so they aren't going to take on extra work overnight at the command of a Minister. There would have to be all sorts of consultations and job description amendments and pay awards before that happened! I'd hazard a guess that a lot of these rules/ laws would find trouble if they were challenged in the courts and this could be why this is a typical British fudge and relies on people to follow rules rather than enforcing them.
For now we face a travel ban until at least 2/12/20 - unless you are travelling for work or education (are skiing lessons education  ). I'd be interested to know from those who have travelled since 5/11/20 what sort of checks or questions they faced at the border /airport when leaving...?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Anyone had any bright ideas?
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@astribo, yup, sadly......we’ve tried to forget about skiing for now, and anything if it happens is a bonus. Imv this government are clueless so without proper border controls, enforcement of a proper lockdown and/ or a working track & trace its going to be a long winter waiting for a vaccine......buy a mountainbike or get it out if you have one already, and hit the trails is my best advice.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Markymark29, my thoughts are similar. Just bought some winter bike gear and better light's. At least I'll be fitter when it's time to click into my bindings. We can only live in hope, keep busy and stay positive. Got a Geneva flight booked in April with the possibility of ending up in Zermatt, fingers crossed and toes.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In relation to flights the UK messed up at the start by allowing 20000 persons a day through our airports whilst we were in lockdown. The majority of europe is now in an almost identical state and i don't think travel is making things that much worse. This like common flu is here to stay forever and will mutate and cause other strains as time goes on. A vaccine will help but won't cure and we are going to need to learn to live with it and get on with it.
I have 3 trips booked and hopefully we get to a stage where i can go. I don't think many of the travel companies and airlines can survive another 6 months of zero business
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Re the international travel ban - like @astribo I'm interested to know what happens if I turn up at Eurotunnel Ashford? Am I diverted to an individual pen and cross-examined by a UK Border Force official? And turned-'round if I can't produce sufficient evidence for the necessity of my journey? As far as I know, I don't have to complete any documentation outbound to leave the country (only the COVID Declaration, no earlier than 2 days before returning). That there is no outbound equivalent Declaration and supporting web pages generating a unique Qcode tells me they're not serious about enforcing this. So is the travel 'ban' just another paper tiger measure?
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| stevew wrote: |
| Just renewed passport just in case I can ski this season. You will need to be conscious of new rules on 6 months needed from 10 years from issue, not expiry! |
My passport turned up today, 2 weeks on the dot. Nice new black passport for those exercised by such things. More interestingly the date of expiry is 04/11/30 no carry over days anymore for early renewal.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| That there is no outbound equivalent Declaration and supporting web pages generating a unique Qcode tells me they're not serious about enforcing this. So is the travel 'ban' just another paper tiger measure? |
Seasonairres are beginning to turn up in our village, and they report no outbound checks from the U.K.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@telford_mike, that would be because there aren't any
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| jafa wrote: |
| I think the self isolation was depending on the integrity of the individuals returning. Id love to go to our place in Austria. I know we can go, but would have to quarantine on our return. As all my social friends, work colleagues etc would know we have been, I personally couldnt not isolate. Its not in our nature to not follow the rules/advice. |
I feel the same way, we went to Austria in September to get the chalet ready for winter, we flew via Munich which at that time was on the good list, so it would have been easy to dodge the quarantine, however it didn’t feel right. We were very low risk as didn’t mix with anyone, but you never know with airports and planes.
It’s a bit of a PITA, but not the end of the world. You are allowed to go shopping if you can’t get it any other way.
Again, flew into LHR and no checks.
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FAQ
