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Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Currently speculation that Swiss rules might change today so that quarantine will only be needed if infection rates are 60 higher than here in CH. Seeing as CH is very high at the moment that would leave only Belgium, Czech Republic and Luxembourg on the European hit list
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
That would make massive sense to me. The UK has countries that you have to quarantine on return from, with lower rates than us. That is bonkers!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The passport expiry date thing is weird certainly...and so weird that you wonder why it applies. There must be some kind of reason, but I can't work out what it is.

As an aside, the problem obviously doesn't get worse each year, because you can only ever get an extra 6 months added to the expiry date, I think, no matter how early you replace your passport. I guess you just end up not really getting any benefit from those 6 months Puzzled
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As I've said before on a number of occasions I've long since adopted the view that I won't ski abroad this winter and right now nothing I can see will change that. In fact I don't think it's seemed less likely since early April.

In very simple terms I think that the Alpine countries are going to have to make a decision on whether they want their entire winter tourism sector to survive or not. When I say entire I expect that some ski tourism reliant businesses will be ok if they lost the entire season whereas others would be bust by Christmas and they need to consider what the ratio of those two extremes might be. They also cannot think that its just about making it through until 21/22, this could go on for years so they need to make a plan asap.

I think this is different to to the situation with 'hot weather' holidays which have a geographically much wider and more general market that is in the main lower value and thus lower impact financially and also much longer in duration, literally 24/7/365 if you look worldwide. I'm not sure what % annually of ski holidays happen in the antipodes and the southern end of South America but I'd be amazed if its even 10% of the world market. This is a NH industry of essentially 4 months duration concentrated in a very few countries and parts thereof.

They have to create a set of rules that allows all the operators to let people to book with certainty that they can have their holiday or their money back, right up until the last minute.

The nightmare scenario IMHO is one where I'm apparently fine but test positive on arrival and am then put in quarantine for 14 days. No holiday, misery and isolation for me and for my partner who then has an equally miserable week and flight home on her own. The only current means of avoiding this scenario is simply not to have an alpine ski holiday this winter.

It is in the press today that as far as the UK is concerned (and I suspect this also applies to the Alpine countries) that travel is now Covid19 neutral. i.e. an individual is not going to be a greater risk by travelling from one country to another.

What might work is if the countries and ALL the businesses that rely on the ski holiday industry agree on a set procedure where I can either have my holiday or my money back. Yes I know there is devil in the detail but as long as its fair and equitable to each party it can be done. If theres a premium for that then fair enough, like anything else the market will decide if its value for money or not. In general I suspect most people whom normally have an alpine ski holiday will be sitting on the cash to afford it if for no other reason than they've had little else to spend it on for months now.

Its really up to them all now. In particular governments. If they persist with the current appendage measuring "my restrictions are longer/better/tougher etc than yours" games then even if we do go in 21/22 a lot of what we last saw in 19/20 will be tumbleweed. Sad
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@Whitters, thanks this is an interesting development... please keep us posted!
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@robboj, That’s more or less where I am. We got 2 ski holidays in and cancelled the next 2 in 2022 - total loss on one, got the deposit back on the other ( but would have got a full refund if we had held out longer - some you win, some you don’t) because it just wasn’t worth the risk for us. The money was already spent so it was a sunk cost. For 2021, the risk still isn’t worth it for us but the cost isn’t (yet, maybe) sunk, so we will not book anything in advance and will take our chances on last minute opportunities if they appear. Otherwise, it’s 2022 for our next skiing trips
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@robboj, Aye, factor onto that the issue of no-deal B and what that would mean regards EHIC/ health cover/ insurance and you've got a proper blocker in terms of travel. I personally wouldn't be able to afford 2 weeks off work sat quarantining in an Austrian hotel, a stay in a hospital in say Innsbruck (or an airfield overspill due to then being overrun) and then a long stay off work recouperating/ quarantining......for a winter skiing holiday.

I know that's a pessimistic outcome but even if its a worst case scenario I don't see it a risk worth taking, so for me unless there's a vaccine and Bozo pulls some fabulous B dseal out of the hat (like that's going to happen) i'll off down the kite surfing shop next spring looking for a new hobby until normality is resumed.

By the way I actually do believe a vaccine will be rolled out by early summer - but too late to have any meaningful winter sports 20/21.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Whitters Interesting, in that this is really a reflection of the individuals' approach: where if a holiday destination is no more risky then being at home, then you might as well go. Only the converse: i.e. that if a visitor is coming from somewhere that's similar or less risky, then why not accept them without quarantine? - They're not going to make things worse.

TBH this is what we felt about returning from Switzerland to the UK in September: that while Swiss x/100K numbers had risen, and were high in the big cities, the effective infection level up the mountain was actually the same/lower than in our home town. We still quarantined 100% for the full 14 days, but it felt probabilistically unnecessary.
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Apart from anything else, Grant Shapps' regular Thursday evening "travel corridor" lottery, makes planning a holiday extremely difficult. And of course, your destination country could be black-balled whilst you are there skiing, meaning 2 weeks quarantine on return.
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Android2000 wrote:
Apart from anything else, Grant Shapps' regular Thursday evening "travel corridor" lottery, makes planning a holiday extremely difficult. And of course, your destination country could be black-balled whilst you are there skiing, meaning 2 weeks quarantine on return.


I’m assuming there’ll be some sort of quarantine required, but I’m also optimistic they’ll have worked out a way of making it shorter than 14 days. So I’m not cashing my lift pass in yet!
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Swiss have dropped their quarantine requirement - there's no longer any point as there are so many domestic cases.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Android2000 wrote:
Apart from anything else, Grant Shapps' regular Thursday evening "travel corridor" lottery, makes planning a holiday extremely difficult. And of course, your destination country could be black-balled whilst you are there skiing, meaning 2 weeks quarantine on return.


I'm lucky in that the quarantine on return will be OK as I can wfh, so as long as we are allowed into France on 22nd Jan then it's game on as far as I'm concerned.
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Markymark29 wrote:
Aye, factor onto that the issue of no-deal B and what that would mean regards EHIC/ health cover/ insurance and you've got a proper blocker in terms of travel. I personally wouldn't be able to afford 2 weeks off work sat quarantining in an Austrian hotel, a stay in a hospital in say Innsbruck (or an airfield overspill due to then being overrun) and then a long stay off work recouperating/ quarantining......for a winter skiing holiday.

I know that's a pessimistic outcome but even if its a worst case scenario I don't see it a risk worth taking, so for me unless there's a vaccine

I quite share your formula of calculation! Smile

Of the people who're still clamoring for a ski holiday, they maybe very well be far more passionate about skiing than you and I do. For them, the small risk is worth the reward of their passion in skiing.

On the other extreme, there's the other extreme of those who really not thought through the risk, but working on the hope that small risk isn't going to materialize. Basically, if you work on the assumption the risk is so small that it's unlikely to happen, then any marginal benefit will be worth going after!

@robboj is right. The alpine countries need to come up with some sort of assurance so people can plan and not getting thrown through the roller coaster of uncertainties.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Swiss isolation requirements now only:

Areas of neighbouring countries

France:

Region Hauts-de-France
Region Île de France
Overseas area French Polynesia

Countries and areas*
Andorra
Armenia
Belgium
Czech Republic
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

they maybe very well be far more passionate about skiing than you and I

@abc, No shortage of passion, it's my favourite winter thing, I also like (? or rather need to keep) paying my mortgage to the bank and keeping the bailiffs away too....
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@abc, we are still very keen to be go on our booked holiday to Lech for Christmas week. So nicely before Brexit.

But would need to have insurance in place. Not prepared to go without insurance.

Our trip is us (family of 4) and my parents. We have a 3 bed roomed self catering apartment. So deep risks aren’t THAT bad in the scheme of things versus the gain of a family activity we all love.

However while it is against FCO advice we won’t be going. I am on knifes edge of cancelling right now.
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telford_mike wrote:
Swiss have dropped their quarantine requirement - there's no longer any point as there are so many domestic cases.


Meanwhile Germany is to introduce a one-month partial lockdown from Monday November 2nd. Amongst the changes of significance for any people considering travelling to/through Germany:

Restaurants and bars will close, except for take-away
Large events will be canceled again
Unnecessary travel is discouraged
and of particular importance: Overnight stays in hotels, except for in emergency situations, is banned

As one country relaxes its entry requirements another one toughens it up. Sad
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
True enough. France is widely expected to announce similar when Macron addresses the nation in an hour or so
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@NickyJ, the "risk" being discussed at this moment has more to do with quarantine and lockdowns.

You maybe perfectly safe. But if you can't even be allowed out of your house, there's no reward.
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abc wrote:
@NickyJ, the "risk" being discussed at this moment has more to do with quarantine and lockdowns.

You maybe perfectly safe. But if you can't even be allowed out of your house, there's no reward.


Yep -though thought I was the quarantine on return? Especially as now restrictions going out to Austria yet....! Sorry getting confused.

I have been seriously considering is still going on quarantine on return...
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Thought Macron said European borders were shut?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
JamesHJ wrote:
Thought Macron said European borders were shut?


French borders remain open though
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
NickyJ wrote:
abc wrote:
@NickyJ, the "risk" being discussed at this moment has more to do with quarantine and lockdowns.

You maybe perfectly safe. But if you can't even be allowed out of your house, there's no reward.


Yep -though thought I was the quarantine on return? Especially as now restrictions going out to Austria yet....! Sorry getting confused.

I have been seriously considering is still going on quarantine on return...

I think people are talking about both.

There're basically 3 different risks. Health risk, quarantine risk (both destination and home), lockdown/closure risk.

Many ideas had been floated around to mitigate the health risk.

A lot of people work from home, or retired. They can easily handle the quarantine at the end of the holiday after getting home.

People who have property in the Alps can also handle quarantine at Europe.

But if the resort town is in lockdown, you can't go skiing. Or even if the town itself isn't in strict lockdown, if the resort aren't open, you still can't go skiing. So is there any point of traveling over there?

Right now, the biggest uncertainty in the top of people's mind is quarantine, only because case numbers are going up and more restrictions are being imposed.
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I think biggest nightmare is undergoing a test while abroad, which comes back as positive, then not being allowed board an airplane or ferry to come home, and essentially being trapped in a hotel room, possibly until your test is negative, which could take a long time in some people

It's not beyond bounds of possibility that in time frame between now and scheduled flight home, your airline will mandate a test before you board
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Another point- a good few people assuming that ski countries are so desperate for tourism cash they'll do what it takes to make season happen, or their businesses/ industry would be irreparably damaged. I wouldn't bet on it. These are rich countries that can borrow from ECB at very low rates and will be able to borrow the cash to give to all these businesses to let them survive till next year
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Markymark29 wrote:
Quote:

they maybe very well be far more passionate about skiing than you and I

@abc, No shortage of passion, it's my favourite winter thing, I also like (? or rather need to keep) paying my mortgage to the bank and keeping the bailiffs away too....


I love it too but for me I can’t be having an extra week or two off work to quarantine (possibly depending on the way the wind is blowing that week!) nor do I want to get stuck there plus there’s the chance of being there 5 minutes and then having to come home suddenly as they’ve shut up shop like what happened to some people in Feb/March.
What a load of stress! No thanks
I’m staying here unless come March things have calmed down but I’m prepared to write the whole thing off. Have got plenty to do here anyway and I will save a fortune.
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Quote:

I’m prepared to write the whole thing off. Have got plenty to do here anyway

That's true for most people really. Even though they may THINK they have nothing else to do, and MUST go skiing. As such, they maybe unwilling to "write off" the season.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@abc, easy to say that when you are not too old. At my age I worry that if I miss my one week a season I may never be able to go again.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Rabbie wrote:
@abc, easy to say that when you are not too old. At my age I worry that if I miss my one week a season I may never be able to go again.

You could go for 2 weeks next season, can you not?

Or are you thinking every season might be your last?

(sorry, that sounds harsh and perhaps a bit heartless. But if that's case, I solute you for skiing as long as you're able. And I understand your desire to do it THIS season no matter what!)
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peanuthead wrote:
I think biggest nightmare is undergoing a test while abroad, which comes back as positive, then not being allowed board an airplane or ferry to come home, and essentially being trapped in a hotel room, ...

or in a foreign hospital. Perhaps for 7 months, given the experience of someone (who had no prior health conditions) just released in the UK.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
All you need is an insurance policy that includes Covid infection. Toofy Grin

Or a private repatriation in case of asymptomatic positives.
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abc wrote:
Rabbie wrote:
@abc, easy to say that when you are not too old. At my age I worry that if I miss my one week a season I may never be able to go again.

You could go for 2 weeks next season, can you not?

Or are you thinking every season might be your last?

(sorry, that sounds harsh and perhaps a bit heartless. But if that's case, I solute you for skiing as long as you're able. And I understand your desire to do it THIS season no matter what!)


This Christmas trip with Mum and Dad they think may very well be their last season. They are both in their 70’s and the impact of arthritis is taking its toll
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@abc, at 76 and counting time is not in my side. I just don’t know how I will be in the future. I have to treat each week skiing as if it were my last and just make the most of it Very Happy

Aches and pains unfortunately don’t get less with advancing years
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@Rabbie, couldn’t agree more, we will be 71 and 75 (well he will be nearly 76 in February) and feel so blessed that we managed to fit in 5 weeks up to early February last season - even better as one of those was with the granddaughters so happy memories there. We have gaily said over the years that as long as we keep going we will be ok - now we don’t have our own place we try and plan about six weeks. So this year - maybe we can hope for late March as rapidly thinking that we will have to write off our plans for January. And if we have to quarantine on return that will be fine for us - so we don’t want to have to do that there, and we do have to know that we have decent insurance. I think that the insurance element is going to be a big chunk of the budget. I do have new skis bought late January and possibly only used for about eight days so far.
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@Pamski, @Rabbie, if I were retired (I’m nearing retirement but not quite yet), I’d look into places that I can stay for longer duration than one week. I’d do consecutive weeks in one place rather than separate weeks traveling back and forth.

Given the uncertainty, I’d be very careful about booking in advance unless it’s fully refundable.

I’ve been delaying my season pass purchase as long as I can, Knowing full well I’ll pay a slight “premium” by my delay. But I see that as my “insurance premium” against the risk of losing (some) use of it due to travel restrictions and/or resort capacity limits.
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I really feel for those for whom age is now a factor in how many more ski holidays they have. Maybe in their position I'd just go for it.

Thinking aloud they need to find a way to stop the infected travelling. Surely then an officially certified negative test before departure is the way ahead?

Yes, its going to cost but if I knew that going down to Boots or wherever in the 48 hours before departure and (hopefully) testing negative meant I was getting to resort without further risk of being turned back then I'd be much more inclined to go.

For those flying, even if they have to show that certification upon departure and immigration in the Alps and again on checking in at accommodation I'd live with that.

For the continentals who drive then they either have a check on the border or at their accommodation, or maybe both?

Make it a substantial fine for anyone trying to bluff or avoid it and it might well work? Another hurdle to triple check could be insisting everyone, even day trippers, have a photo ski pass that will only be issued on provision of their passport and test certification. Even nationals of the country they're in still have to show something to prove that they are actually nationals.

Regardless of what support the industry gets from Governments it is not going to be anywhere near what they'd make from actual guests. It will only be enough to keep them afloat at best. So, whilst administering all these checks is going to be a lot of hassle for everyone in the process its still going to be cheaper for the governments that handing out compensation and better for the ski industry to have real paying customers?

In practicality its only one more document for immigration and hotel receptions to check and log. Yes its a lot more hassle for apartment owners or managers than putting a key in a lockbox and maybe never even seeing the guests but if its the difference between being fully or barely booked then I'm sure they'll find the time?

Its going to mean a bit more queuing but I'd live with that.

Obviously there is still some risk as the locals and nationals of the specific country are not going to be tested.

It only leaves the risk of becoming symptomatic whilst there. I don't have any answers for that but a few weeks ago now head prefect Hancock trumpeted some test that could allegedly tell whether you have covid, the flu or just the common cold. I wonder what happened to that? I've never seen anything concrete about timelines from infection to symptoms? Has anyone else? Jut thinking that if I did a Sat to Sat week and was tested negative on the Thursday before departure could/would I be symptomatic by a week on Saturday if I got infected after the test?
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As it stands, I could go skiing in Verbier this Weekend. No requirement to quarantine given the comparability of UK and CH infections/100K. It's very tempting. The limiting factor is the UK Designation of CH by the Foreign Office and consequential issues around travel insurance. How long before the UK and other countries adopt the Swiss 'equivalence' model, I wonder?


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 29-10-20 12:41; edited 3 times in total
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LaForet wrote:
As it stands, I could go skiing in Verbier this Weekend. No requirement to quarantine given the comparability of UK and CH infections/100K. It's very tempting. The limiting factor is the UK Designation of CH by the Foreign Office and consequential issues around travel insurance. How long before the UK and other countries adopt the Swiss 'equivalence' model, I wonder?


By far the simplest solution and as expected the ever pragmatic and efficient Swiss adopt it first but I just can't see some others, particularly the UK, doing the same.
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Yes, as you say robboj It seems crazy that for example, while Liverpool and France have the same infection rate (681/100K) a returnee from France has to quarantine, while someone arriving home from Liverpool doesn't. I suppose you could argue that we do what we can: you can control international travellers relatively easily, but not domestic ones. Except that we don't actually 'control' travellers anyway, as we don't have a working Track/Trace system and the police certainly don't have the resources to follow-up on disappearing returnees. And we know that only a small minority of people actually quarantine for the full 14 days. So the whole thing is a paper tiger. Or tigger, if we're talking about the Health Minister.
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@LaForet, Yes completely agree. I suppose my only fear of that system is the introduction of regular, even daily testing to monitor things. Bad enough when at home and trying to make living but imagine a potentially daily lottery of whether your holiday is over and you're facing 14 days 'incarceration' abroad. That would kill all holiday travel stone dead so I suppose not but we have a lot of very frightened politicians who've (mainly) painted themselves into a corner and I wouldn't rule anything out now.
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