 Poster: A snowHead
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@abc completely agree. It doesn't really work. They would have to all take two tests to account for incubation period while isolating between tests 1 and 2, then between test 2 and leaving. Unless they all live alone it's almost impossible as would also have to isolate from the people they are living with. The mental gymnastics some are going through to justify their trips are completely safe is frustrating. I'd much rather they were honest and said we want a trip and are willing to accept some risks and don't mind going against recommended advice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| @abc completely agree. It doesn't really work. They would have to all take two tests to account for incubation period while isolating between tests 1 and 2, then between test 2 and leaving. Unless they all live alone it's almost impossible as would also have to isolate from the people they are living with. The mental gymnastics some are going through to justify their trips are completely safe is frustrating. I'd much rather they were honest and said we want a trip and are willing to accept some risks and don't mind going against recommended advice. |
No mental gymnastics required. Two couples. Both have isolated before. Both prepared to do what is required to ensure the safest trip possible. We are fortunate enough we can do that. Others aren't.
Nothing will ever completely eradicate the risk of CV19, apart from everyone staying locked up in home. But if we all did that, wouldn't be much point getting through CV19 to be honest. I've never said about a trip being completely safe. Only you have said this. Besides, when is a ski trip (or any trip for that matter) ever completely safe?
As I said before. It's about risk assessment and management. I really don't get what is so hard to understand about that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My job routinely exposes me to people that are proven to have COVID with questionably effective PPE.
The idea that leaving that for two weeks to be on a mountain in the outside air would be an increased risk is laughable.
So if I can, I will ski with a clean conscience.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well I have sent an email to the accommodation provider asking if they want us to cancel now at just under 63days before travel or to hold out longer. However it is against FCO advice to travel to Austria and numbers are not going in right directions. I want nothing more than to be able to go and spend Christmas week in Lech with my family and my parents (self catered accommodation) but not sure I can see this happening 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@irishz, I think that should be more of an incentive to campaign for safer working conditions rather than a green light to do anything that's less risky.
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@denfinella, You ever negotiate anything with the NHS? Good luck with that one...
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| irishz wrote: |
My job routinely exposes me to people that are proven to have COVID with questionably effective PPE.
The idea that leaving that for two weeks to be on a mountain in the outside air would be an increased risk is laughable.
So if I can, I will ski with a clean conscience. |
Me too and I agree!
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| Yorksboy wrote: |
| irishz wrote: |
My job routinely exposes me to people that are proven to have COVID with questionably effective PPE.
The idea that leaving that for two weeks to be on a mountain in the outside air would be an increased risk is laughable.
So if I can, I will ski with a clean conscience. |
Me too and I agree! |
I agree too, & really looking forward to skiing, but this is snowheads, land of the morally wonderful and perfect. If we don't try and return to normal, mitigating risk as best we can but not being stupidly paranoid, then the economic tsunami on its way will make COVID look tame.
On the plus side I know someone who got a job on the vaccine roll out program in the UK, starting 1st December, expected 1st injections 14th December onwards...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| irishz wrote: |
My job routinely exposes me to people that are proven to have COVID with questionably effective PPE.
The idea that leaving that for two weeks to be on a mountain in the outside air would be an increased risk is laughable.
So if I can, I will ski with a clean conscience. |
Is any Clean Conscience really up to your stand of skiing?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 17-10-20 12:29; edited 1 time in total
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| thefatcontroller wrote: |
| Yorksboy wrote: |
| irishz wrote: |
My job routinely exposes me to people that are proven to have COVID with questionably effective PPE.
The idea that leaving that for two weeks to be on a mountain in the outside air would be an increased risk is laughable.
So if I can, I will ski with a clean conscience. |
Me too and I agree! |
I agree too, & really looking forward to skiing, but this is snowheads, land of the morally wonderful and perfect. If we don't try and return to normal, mitigating risk as best we can but not being stupidly paranoid, then the economic tsunami on its way will make COVID look tame.
On the plus side I know someone who got a job on the vaccine roll out program in the UK, starting 1st December, expected 1st injections 14th December onwards... |
I’m in the same camp. Got flights booked in December and if I’m able to travel will go and enjoy the slopes and spend money in whichever resort I end up because heaven knows they need it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
I agree too, & really looking forward to skiing, but this is snowheads, land of the morally wonderful and perfect.
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Not really, I have travelled and done plenty of other "unnecessary" things during covid. I would happily go skiing, but don't want to deal with the hassle of a covid trip. I'm not a hypocrite though and happy to say it is an unnecessary risk I have been willing to take. You could just as easily say the morally wonderful are those trying to justify their trips as perfectly safe.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Fridge03 wrote: |
No mental gymnastics required. Two couples. Both have isolated before. Both prepared to do what is required to ensure the safest trip possible.
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Yeah, two party (2 household) is about the practical limit.
My family circle consist of myself plus 2 separate household. I found it quite impossible to be fully isolated among them (total of 3 household of 8 people) at the same time. I myself have to occasionally break isolation due to doctor’s visit etc. The same with members of the other 2 household. There’s never long enough time for all 3 household to be completely fully isolated. I can only visit one of them at a time, with a 2 week separation so I don’t become the vector “crossing” between them. I’m less worry about myself getting infected. But I don’t want to be the carrier between the 2 household with 3 individuals older than 80.
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| Fridge03 wrote: |
@ecureuil. Try posting the whole section. Rather than just a bit which you think makes a good point.
It’s not prohibited. Guidelines will be followed.
Car sharing
It is difficult to socially distance during car journeys. You should avoid sharing a car with someone from outside your household or your support bubble unless you can practise social distancing. You can reduce the risk of transmission by:
opening windows for ventilation
travelling side by side or behind other people, rather than facing them, where seating arrangements allow
facing away from each other
considering seating arrangements to maximise distance between people in the vehicle
cleaning your car between journeys using standard cleaning products - make sure you clean door handles and other areas that people may touch
asking the driver and passengers to wear a face covering
4 people. All with negative CV19 tests. Who have isolated before hand.
Safer than going on public transport. Wouldn't you agree?
And no, I don’t expect anything from anyone on an online forum. I couldn’t care less to be honest about what you expect.
It’s not personal.  |
Sorry, didn't mean it to be personal. I only quoted the first part because that IS the guideline. The rest of the paragraph indicates how the transmission risk can be reduced, but doesn't negate the first two sentences.
To be clear, I absolutely agree that what you are proposing is safer than public transport, and is probably the safest way for two couples to travel to the Alps in a single vehicle. I just don't see that you can claim it is "within the guidelines", unless you have something like a 12-seater minibus so that the couples can remain 2m apart (and also adopt other measures like keeping the windows open).
It would be better to acknowledge that the guideline would be breached (which at present isn't illegal), while claiming it is in a way that reasonably minimises the risks.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well TBH whilst I have been holding out for a trip after Christmas, we were thinking of renting an apartment for two weeks & self drive I can't really see it happening due to potential self isolating rules/laws upon our return. So I have rented a camper van for mid November & we (just the wife & I) are hopefully driving upto Scotland to experience the NC500.
We just want to get away and the NC500 has been on the radar for a while, benefits being no pesky tourists blocking the roads, no midges either. Negatives, daylight will drop off around 1530hr.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The NC500 is an excellent idea, do you have any thoughts on where You'd stop off and stay, picking your brains here a bit I admit
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry, . . . DuH in your camper Van
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So about £600 for a family of 4, and still a minimum 7 days quarantine. Won't really help holiday skiers, and will take months to implement (how do you go for a test when you’re isolating?). At least they’re looking at options though, the current '14 days in the slammer' seems like a blunt instrument.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@telford_mike, yep, it's certainly no 'magic bullet'
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£175 is much less than a week's full time pay, so while it's a lot of money, it's a lot less than some people would have to give up under the current rules. Personally I can work from home so 14 days quarantine wouldn't be a big issue, but the same is not true for say a self-employed electrician.
Testing centres are already set up to assume that everyone coming for a test is infected, so quarantine doesn't mean you can't go for a test (and postal tests are also used). It's every day situations where they don't want people mixing, due to lower levels of PPE, that's often not properly used anyway and much greater total contact time between people.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @telford_mike, yep, it's certainly no 'magic bullet' |
The lack of a co-ordinated international agreement will probably scupper the vaccine too. Last week I went to the pharmacy at Interlaken Ost for my flu jab. The lady doing the jabs was confident that a COVID vaccine would soon be available in CH, and equally confident that we'd be able to walk in to her pharmacy and get it. It occurred to me that should this happen, it simply wouldn’t help, as the U.K. (and probably everywhere else) would still require me to quarantine if I wanted to visit, there being no ‘vaccine passport' or whatever available.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
the current '14 days in the slammer' seems like a blunt instrument.
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There’s no way to avoid some length of quarantine given the long incubation period.
You can tune the number of days. But will that really change anything? I doubt it makes much difference for holiday makers.
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| abc wrote: |
| Quote: |
the current '14 days in the slammer' seems like a blunt instrument.
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There’s no way to avoid some length of quarantine given the long incubation period.
You can tune the number of days. But will that really change anything? I doubt it makes much difference for holiday makers. |
Can do... especially with school teachers and children’s. If you can get down to 10days - allows a weeks holiday at start of Christmas and back to school for the Tuesday that term starts after Christmas
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
Can do... especially with school teachers and children’s. If you can get down to 10days - allows a weeks holiday at start of Christmas and back to school for the Tuesday that term starts after Christmas |
But (here in CH at least) you also have to quarantine for 10 days when you arrive, so that would be 20 days quarantine for a week's skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@telford_mike, yep completely out the window when that is the setup. However just highlighting how a few days reductions can make a big difference
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We are a family of 6, usually ski Feb half term in CH; the youngest still needs some childcare. An airport test at that price really bumps up the overall cost, plus quarantining not really practical with kids at school (older ones in senior school). And quarantine on way into CH makes it all impossible anyway. In the summer I was warned they weren’t expecting a lot of Brits in resort this year and they weren’t employing anyone not fluent in German... seems like it will come to pass. May not get there this season; we are all gutted. Maybe roll over to 2022 and cross fingers for Easter week 2021 in France if things improve radically... we’ll see.
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You know it makes sense.
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| The lack of a co-ordinated international agreement will probably scupper the vaccine too. Last week I went to the pharmacy at Interlaken Ost for my flu jab. The lady doing the jabs was confident that a COVID vaccine would soon be available in CH, and equally confident that we'd be able to walk in to her pharmacy and get it. It occurred to me that should this happen, it simply wouldn’t help, as the U.K. (and probably everywhere else) would still require me to quarantine if I wanted to visit, there being no ‘vaccine passport' or whatever available. |
There is such a passport being trialled. Whether it will end up being widely used only time will tell.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/17/digital-health-passport-trials-commonpass-travel-covid-19
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| telford_mike wrote: |
| It occurred to me that should this happen, it simply wouldn’t help, as the U.K. (and probably everywhere else) would still require me to quarantine if I wanted to visit, there being no ‘vaccine passport' or whatever available. |
And yet I have my yellow fever vaccination certificate to use when crossing borders.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Kenzie, the big difference is that the yellow fever vaccination has been approved by regulators in all the relevant countries.
Once there is a Covid-2 vaccination approved in the EU one would expect that it is accepted in those countries, wherever it has been administered. But that is then.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here, we get a little vaccine booklet, and when you get a jab, the barcode off the vaccine is stuck in the page and then signed by the doctor. They thought it was very strange I didn’t already have one – I have a list of my vaccines, but it’s largely been written by my mum  I think the idea is that you can use it to prove what you’ve had.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarlet, moving to electronic now...its being trialled
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@holidayloverxx, In Austria? Or in the UK? Either way, it feels like something that should've been done 20 years ago 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| @telford_mike, yep, it's certainly no 'magic bullet' |
But very useful for me. I was working in France for 2 days (medical research facility) and I have to quarantine for 14 days. I'm now on day 9 in isolation in a room in my house with food provided outside the room by my wife.
November I will be in a brain unit at a hospital in another country and may have to isolate again for 14 days.
In Jan I may be in Africa training on sample isolation on sexual assault cases. Again another 14 day quarantine.
So you can see it is getting to be a pain not seeing my wife for 3 weeks each month. Only isolating for a week with testing would be worth it for me.
Current rules are if I have symptoms and then test -ve I can get out but with no symptoms then a -ve test I still have to remain in isolation for 14 days.
Strange when a football linesman doesn't have to isolate and they were only somewhere for 3 days as well.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| @holidayloverxx, In Austria? Or in the UK? Either way, it feels like something that should've been done 20 years ago |
In Austria. I read it on Salzburg 24
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
Current rules are if I have symptoms and then test -ve I can get out but with no symptoms then a -ve test I still have to remain in isolation for 14 days.
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That does seem a tad inconsistent and (as I'm sure Mr. Spock would say) illogical.
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| Skimum1 wrote: |
| We are a family of 6, usually ski Feb half term in CH; the youngest still needs some childcare. An airport test at that price really bumps up the overall cost, plus quarantining not really practical with kids at school (older ones in senior school). And quarantine on way into CH makes it all impossible anyway. In the summer I was warned they weren’t expecting a lot of Brits in resort this year and they weren’t employing anyone not fluent in German... seems like it will come to pass. May not get there this season; we are all gutted. Maybe roll over to 2022 and cross fingers for Easter week 2021 in France if things improve radically... we’ll see. |
Strange how Italy is willing to provide FREE tests at airports for travellers into Italy - but the UK needs to charge big bucks. A nice little earner for one of Boris' friends??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jonnyboy9 wrote: |
| Strange how Italy is willing to provide FREE tests at airports for travellers into Italy - but the UK needs to charge big bucks. A nice little earner for one of Boris' friends?? |
Or Italy wants to promote inbound tourism, while the UK would rather people stay in the country (either at home reducing the spread, or elsewhere supporting UK businesses).
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All people returning to Italy are offered a free test whether they're a tourist or not. And if people don't go skiing they'll probably save their pennies for another time when they can..
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FAQ
