 Poster: A snowHead
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I talked recently to our resort rental agency and they admitted that reservations were very low compared to normal and that most European mainland clients seemed to be waiting to see how things develop. I'm not sure they'd give the same response if they were talking to a journalist, and certainly, the local resort operator's PR bulletins are as upbeat as you'd expect from someone who's job is, well, PR.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Seagull66 wrote: |
I gather the Ski club are a point of disagreement on here
Just to say they have cancelled the 1st of the trips to Tignes
Not a good start or sign for certain parts of the Ski holidays all round |
Have they? It is showing as fully booked on the website.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They certainly have on my email - Unless it's just me they overbooked 
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wow- there is certainly a lot of expertise on Snowheads about epidemiology, mortality statistics, virology, global security, bioweapons and the long term consequences of viral infections.
yours feeling humble; ed
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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back in the real world- the GB telemark championships and Army Winter sports Telemark titan is cancelled.
we might book cheap flights- but we will wait before booking accomadation- everything is a bit pants.
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but at least unlike my friends and colleagues in other specialities I'm not and haven't been in a spacesuit in ICU, intubating and turning people with COVID - about 50% of whom will die. Like the dad in my kids school or my wife's colleague in her 40's.
And at least I haven't got cardiac complications from COVID- as have a good number.
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@ed123, Nicely said.
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| esaw1 wrote: |
| @ed123, Nicely said. |
Ta
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ed123, fair enough comment but it doesn’t stop people being able to make their own personal risk assessments about whether they are prepared to do anything in life, including holidays, skiing or otherwise.
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@ed123, if all you see are very ill C19 pts then obviously it will seem worse than if you are a GP or like me, used to deal with mild cases over the phone via OOH and 111.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| Seagull66 wrote: |
I gather the Ski club are a point of disagreement on here
Just to say they have cancelled the 1st of the trips to Tignes
Not a good start or sign for certain parts of the Ski holidays all round |
Have they? It is showing as fully booked on the website. |
Saying something is fully booked is a nice way of refusing to take any more bookings when you think you're about to cancel something. Or it could just be fully booked.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Seagull66 wrote: |
| They certainly have on my email - Unless it's just me they overbooked |
Interesting. It's been showing as fully booked for weeks. They normally update the banner to say cancelled it that's what's happened, but maybe they haven't on this one.
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Covidiots
Once again STAY AT HOME
The situation in Euro Ski Countries is changing rapidly
Even if you think your OK , think of others .. A Negative PCR Test means nothing , you can contract CV 19 at any time !
Winter Sports (Holidays) are NOT ESSENTAL Travel
Stop trying to circumnavigate travel quarantines & restrictions ..this is the equivalent of Pre Meditated action of Ignoring/Disobeying Government advice.
You Are THAT Covidiot Problem 
This is NOT a GAME .
I really hope the €5000-10000 fines being discussed between EU members will begin ASAP
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@snowhound, Yes- I agree.
I think the point I'm making is that unless there are some amazing polymath multiqualified viro-epidemiolo-aneatheti-publichealth-security analystic-bioweapon and global political analysts here, which I sincerely doubt, then some people are quite obviously talking out of their back bottoms.
Sure we try and balance our own risks- (which we can't because we don't know them) and come to a conclusion. For those who are interested there is a distinction between axiomatic risk and (Knightian) uncertainty.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@boobleblooble, no I don't see people with COVID as a matter of course. I've (probably) had it though.
But see above for what I'm talking about-
Harry Frankfurt (a philosopher) has great book / essay "On cowdoo" which makes a distinction between truth, lies and cowdoo.
To lie you have to know what the truth is. The bullshitter however has no concern for what the truth might be. Just an agenda to be supported at all costs. There is a lot of it about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Back in the thread.
Will this season happen?
Would be good to have a survey to see what people have usually done by now, what they have done, what they intend to do.
British style chalets look tricky if they will exist.
Would be good to have a survey of independent chalet owners too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Some gueses- which will almost certainly be wrong;
1. The retired / semi-retired with their own properties who usually do a season will go and do a season- at least a good number of them. if the lfts stay open good, if not drive home.
2. Large UK chalet companies will have a serious problem. Many won't open at all, some will cease trading. Those that do open will either; have a fantastic season- no COVID, little supply but them well off clients who have managed to save during lockdown. Or a disaster- unable to recruit staff, those staff that do arrive on a carousel of sickness as all precautions ignored on days off / on the slopes. Guests sent home, either because no one to look after them or because they are ill, or leave early because they think they are getting ill, so fly home infecting the rest of the plane a la Zante.
3.Independent chalets- owner run- no staff- might be ok with booking of 1 / 2 families only. Larger chalets with staff- staff problems. Cleaning a bit of a nightmare, especially after COVID bottom (not pleasant and a big surprise I can say from first hand experience).
4. Self-catering- who knows? Either some canny v. cheap deals booked ahead or a scramble for peak weeks.
5. Infrastructure / lifts / restaurants / shops; who knows. It takes a lot of people moving up and down the valley every day and all around Europe every season to sort skiing out. Perhaps a much reduced offering almost exclusively staffed by locals as opposed to seasonaires.
I bet that something else happens though.
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By this point last year (reasonably typical for me) I had booked Xmas/NY weeks, Feb half term, 3 weekends, a week at Easter (all to my place) and a week at Easter to a catered chalet in the 3 valleys with friends. I'd also be buying my season pass about now.
This time round, I've got flights for a couple of weekends (booked pre COVID, using Avios) and a week at Feb half term booked. All are cancellable. I'm going to decline the season pass despite the large discount being offered.
There are at least 4 chalets up for sale in Argentiere that look, given the spec, like they were all previously rental places, so I concur that the chalet industry probably doesn't get through this.
My bet is that the UK abandons the travel corridor principle and moves to 7-day quarantine with testing, which will just about make skiing possible for us. Remote schooling will make it easier, and remote patient consultations would make it easier still.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@snowdave, I've 2 weeks hols left before due of march and 2 weeks skiing might turn onto 1 week and a weeks quarantine which might be a result given where we are
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By now I would have been very carefully monitoring TO prices, perhaps/probably already grabbed one or two weeks or fortnights for Jan/Feb (usually Austria, Finland or Italy, b&b or sc, never chalet), maybe be thinking this season on several DIY trips and therefore booking flights, transfers, probably SHds bashes too. Would be planning on more TO trips for later season, but always book them late.
As it's turned out, we (Mr G and I) have all the available time this season, as he's no longer working. But as of now, the furthest that we're planning is Scotland as much as it's doable (if allowed, if snow, if accommodation/car/van possible, if not already filled up by everyone else who doesn't normally go there!).
Self catering in Europe would be a maybe, and I keep trying to feel desperate enough to convince myself that the risks are low enough: but we'd have to fly and transfer, and all in all I don't think that the various worries, hassles & risks are worth it for us this season, irrespective of what various Governments and countries do. (I am an asthmatic amongst other health issues, so a bit more worried, maybe.) Hopefully, the snow, the mountains and we will all be here/there next season and in a fit state to resume activities. But so far my feeling (of personal risk
mainly, but also in a general wider pandemic context) is that it's too soon.
Extremely jealous of those who do feel that it's safe to go, and of those who will and do eventually get to go. 
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| ed123 wrote: |
back in the real world- the GB telemark championships and Army Winter sports Telemark titan is cancelled.
we might book cheap flights- but we will wait before booking accomadation- everything is a bit pants. |
for context Army winter sports weren't cancelled through the Falklands or both gulf wars!!
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I don't know if anyone who's planning to self-drive has seen this risk, a blockade of Channel ports by French fishermen if they don't get to keep the status quo on fishing rights in UK territorial waters after Jan 1st 2021.
https://londonlovesbusiness.com/french-fishermen-plot-to-block-uk-ports-in-brexit-threat-over-fisheries/
As it looks as if the UK Govt is standing firm on retaking control of UK fisheries and a No Deal scenario is looking ever more possible, the French fishermen will likely resort to these tactics to extract concessions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@luigi, hadn't seen that, but the French fishermen have demonstrated before. But rumours are that Brexit negotiations may be heading for Johnson capitulating on most things, so he will need a fishing "victory" to claim Tory glory.
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@luigi, don’t know many that drive to ski that cross by ferry, we certainly don’t. Tunnel every time
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've written this season off as far as Europe is concerned, scrapped a couple of trips last season and I just don't think it's worth making plans beyond this weekend.
I'll gamble on a Glenshee season ticket and pray for some midweek dumps, the Scottish ski centres may be one of the few winners in all of this.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rdsweb wrote: |
| @luigi, don’t know many that drive to ski that cross by ferry, we certainly don’t. Tunnel every time |
With support from other workers, such as farmers, it's just as easy to blockade the tunnel terminal as the port. And if it will cause more disruption, it may even be the more likely target.
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| luigi wrote: |
I don't know if anyone who's planning to self-drive has seen this risk, a blockade of Channel ports by French fishermen if they don't get to keep the status quo on fishing rights in UK territorial waters after Jan 1st 2021.
https://londonlovesbusiness.com/french-fishermen-plot-to-block-uk-ports-in-brexit-threat-over-fisheries/
As it looks as if the UK Govt is standing firm on retaking control of UK fisheries and a No Deal scenario is looking ever more possible, the French fishermen will likely resort to these tactics to extract concessions. |
Over the centuries, HMG and the RN have taken a dim view of any attempted blockade of our ports. Seems an unnecessary action as well - simpler and more effective to blockade exit from and entry to the French ports, I would have thought.
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You know it makes sense.
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| alasdair.graham wrote: |
| I've written this season off as far as Europe is concerned |
Must say I feel the same.
I understand, from someone who claims to know, that Italy and Sweden will join the quarantine list later today (Thursday). Could be totally wrong, but if true it means all routes to happiness are blocked off for the foreseeable unless you are happy to quarantine one way or both ways and, worse, potentially endure an enforced stay in a 'quarantine hotel' like what they have in Italy - 3 British graduates have been stuck in one for weeks. Come down with Covid or get denied boarding at the airport after a temp check and they will quarantine YOU and not in a hotel of your choice either.
https://thetab.com/uk/2020/09/21/grads-please-for-release-italy-175788
Fancy a bit of that?
I suspect that many intend to run the gauntlet, have their week(s) skiing and then return without any intention of doing the quarantine - apparently that's what's been happening of late anyway. They'll likely get away with it but the risk of a large fine and/or criminal record, to my mind, doesn't make it a sensible plan.
We probably all need to accept that the graphs are currently going the wrong way, the 'flu season is around the corner with a peak usually in February (people won't know what is 'flu and what is Covid so it'll all get called Covid! You can predict that bit), some countries simply don't want us in the same way we don't want them, and etc etc etc I could go on it's just a sh*t show. In short, Governments don't care whether you and I ski or not.
Even Scottish slopes could be off limits to us from south of the border the way Mrs Sturgeon is clamping down.
The question was
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| Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ??? |
And I would say no, probably not in any meaningful way
And we all thought it was kind of over. If you have booked and paid you are likely to be on that ‘trying to get a refund’ rollercoaster and, this time, your insurance company won’t be at all interested or inclined to help – not that many were last time around because it wasn’t ever their problem.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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People should look outside of the alps.
THere is always Japan/Asia
Eastern Europe, Poland, etc.
If Spain becomes safe then there are a few resorts + Andorra.
Plus Scandanavia.
If there is a magic bullet around the turn of the year, then I can see the UK being 1/2 empty as people scramble to get away.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mr.Egg, Japan is shut until April probably.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think it’s the end of the line for Brits going skiing unless they can quarantine (probably both going and coming back), but most countries will shut up shop soon to foreign travellers for the winter.
Poland, Bulgaria & Slovakia all just recorded their highest number of cases ever !
Scandanavia will shut up shop soon with Norway cases now spiralling, plus Finland just recorded its highest number of cases just below the previous high in April
Japan closed to tourists (actually closed to most and very few can enter) and I doubt any one will be paying to go to S Korea (been there, it’s cold, icy & miserable)
Hunker down, it’s going to be a long winter 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boobleblooble wrote: |
| @Mr.Egg, Japan is shut until April probably. |
Correct.
April 1st at the earliest.
They're safeguarding their people and the re-arranged 2020 Olympics, now planned for July 2021.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowhound wrote: |
| @ed123, fair enough comment but it doesn’t stop people being able to make their own personal risk assessments about whether they are prepared to do anything in life, including holidays, skiing or otherwise. |
Does the "personal risk assessment" include for rigorous self isolation after skiing to reduce risk of passing infection to more vulnerable people, or taking up a ventilator bed if the NHS is overwhelmed by a second wave?
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@On the rocks, It should. And if it does then it's as@snowhound, said.
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@On the rocks, Currently Sheffield has a much higher Covid Rate per 100 000 population than most of the Alps. That goes for the UK too seeing that the UK would be on the UK's "Red List" if the UK was another country. Going skiing or not will also come down to how the UK manages the Covid numbers domestically, and how other countries (including EU ski countries, and other ski destinations) view the potential re-infection rates due to UK skiers visiting their ski resorts. I suspect in the coming weeks as the Covid cases rise not just in the UK but in EU countries as well there may well be the need for increased international travel restrictions that most certainly will seriously impact the coming ski season.
Most probably Austrians will ski in Austria, Italians will ski in Italy, French ski in France, Swiss ski in Switzerland, and Brits ski in what's left.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 8-10-20 10:00; edited 1 time in total
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I'm not worried about getting there or the actual process of boarding, and while I'd like apre I can live without it (surely some solution can be found for some evening fun though). My only worry is that it won't be practical to take 2 week's quarantine when I get back to the UK, or that I have to quarantine for the duration I'm on holiday then go home again!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Our plan was to work the season chalet hosting. The company who offered us jobs is now not operating this season at all. The transfer company we drove for last season is not operating this season. We currently have no work for the season, there is virtually nothing out there for UK passport holders. If we can get some UK PCV driving work we might go to Austria for a few weeks late in the season if travel is allowed.
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@On the rocks, the word "risk" implies a probability, it isn't a guarantee of being infection free. And you are right of course that the personal risk assessment shouldn't just involve risk to oneself, it needs to include consequent risk to others.
But if @snowhound took precautions to ensure the probability (or risk) of getting infected - including passing it on, and possibly suffering severe Covid - was no more than it would have been staying at home then his/her personal risk assessment seems reasonable in my view.
We are certainly considering going to France, and would plan for that including being extra vigilant in advance of travel (we don't want to export infection), avoiding or protecting ourselves in relation to any activities there we felt might carry risk, and arranging friends to do shopping on our return so we meet quarantine requirements.
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FAQ
