 Poster: A snowHead
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| LaForet wrote: |
No one in the public perhaps, no. But the Cabinet has to actually run the country. Which means looking ahead, judging probable scenarios, evaluating the key factors, making plans and revising them in the light of new information. It has the entire apparatus of state and huge scientific support community at its disposal. It has the international connections to get information from other countries and to coordinate its actions with theirs.
So it is resonable to ask them about the future.
And to get the answer "We don't really know." is not acceptable. It means that at best, they are incompetent, or worse might be competent, but can't be bothered. |
It is reasonable to ask them about their expectations. It is not reasonable to ask them to categorically announce that type of policy for so far in the future when there is so much that nobody knows (how effective the vaccines will be in practise, how quickly we will be able to roll them out, whether new strains will emerge etc etc).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
And to get the answer "We don't really know." is not acceptable. It means that at best, they are incompetent, or worse might be competent, but can't be bothered.
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There are many questions even the experts in this field don't know, or can't answer with any certainty. So expecting politicians to have all the answers seems extremely unreasonable. You put them in a no-win situation where they either say I don't know and are branded incompetent, or they give a best guess and then are criticised when their guess is wrong. This gotcha style media reporting just encourages politicians to no longer actually answer questions and just sit on the fence now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| robboj wrote: |
| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| robboj wrote: |
@Timmycb5, Thats a fair point and I hope the prevailing view but there will be a lobby saying it worked this time so why not again? They don't even need to persuade us? Another 'new strain' anytime they need it and away we don't go.
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I think that would have to be backed up with some pretty strong evidence. I suspect there are limits to just how much people are willing to take, and we’ll probably begin to see people who are largely in agreement with necessary lockdowns (of which I would say I am one) pushing against it. |
Again I agree. What evidence do we have of any new strain though.Is the current situation because of the new strain or just because its winter.
There was official talk back in the summer of a test that would be able to tell if we had the cold the flu or covid. Has never been heard of since alas. |
I’d always defer back to international consensus. The WHO have acknowledged the existence of the more virulent “Johnson variant” (as I like to call it). As think as far navy as Sept ‘20?
I hadn’t actually heard of the test for cold/flu/Covid...
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| robboj wrote: |
| What evidence do we have of any new strain though. Is the current situation because of the new strain or just because its winter. |
The Covid-19 virus, like any virus, is mutating all the time so I'm not sure why you need evidence of the existence of a new strain. It is a factor that new strains/variants are found in countries that invest in DNA sequencing of the virus i.e. we're only going to find new strains where we look. So (completely speculative) if a new variant crops up in "^&$£"¬"£istan where there is no DNA sequencing and someone travels to Kent where there is DNA sequencing it becomes the Kent/London/UK variant.
| robboj wrote: |
| There was official talk back in the summer of a test that would be able to tell if we had the cold the flu or covid. Has never been heard of since alas. |
Got a reference?
The Covid test will tell you if you have Covid.
If you take the test, don't have Covid but still feel absolutely awful, you have 'flu.
If you take the test, don't have Covid but still feel slightly ill, you have a cold.
As an aside... lockdown, social distancing etc is really keeping 'flu (which has a lower normal R0 than Covid) down but there's no reason why you can't have both at the same time. I am reliably informed this would be a deeply unpleasant and dangerous position for almost any adult regardless of age or other conditions.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| robboj wrote: |
The only honesty thus far has been from Whitty who did exactly what they don't want and told the truth about the future of Covid infection and death but said the politicians will have to decide where the line will be drawn. |
Nope, that's not remotely true. Of course if you live in England you view point might be different. However here in Scotland it's a whole different ball game. Start watching some of the Scottish government daily covid briefings on iPlayer. I am not remotely a fan of the SNP but Nicola has played an absolute blinder* by simply being competent, honest and willing to admit to making mistakes. You can also be sure everything that Professor Jason Leitch and Dr Gregor Smith tells you is the honest truth.
Honestly the contrast with south of the border is chalk and cheese. The incompetence of the Westminster government has compromised Scotland's response to the pandemic. I am quite sure if Nicola had been in charge of the UK we would be feeling as smug as the Australians and New Zealanders right now and I would be enjoying some skiing in Scotland.
* The SNP obviously are working towards Scottish independence. One way to convince the sceptics is to simply be competent, having done so it's not surprising that Nicola's approval rating for handling the pandemic is something Boris can only dream of, and that support for independence has been polling at more than 50% for months now. Boris still doesn't get it which is why the idiot is visiting Scotland tomorrow, which being unnecessary travel in the middle of a pandemic just plays into the hands of the SNP. I mean the guy has done more for Scottish independence in the last 18 months than the SNP have managed in the last decade.
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@jabuzzard, you are ‘HaggisTrap’ and I claim my £5. Either that or you are quite mad.
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@jabuzzard, PS, if you’re actually Scottish you’d know that Balfron is in Stirlingshire.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@jabuzzard think you have your blinkers well and truly on .
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Guys - let’s get something straight that will not in any way contribute to this subject, but we to be clear about one thing: Covid-19 isn’t a virus, but the condition you CAN get/be in if you are exposed to the SARS-COVID-2 virus. I will show myself out now 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| Guys - let’s get something straight that will not in any way contribute to this subject, but we to be clear about one thing: Covid-19 isn’t a virus, but the condition you CAN get/be in if you are exposed to the SARS-COVID-2 virus. I will show myself out now |
SARS-CoV-2 if you want to be really accurate.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Gotta love a bit of OTT pedantry 
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| vipul wrote: |
| @jabuzzard think you have your blinkers well and truly on . |
I was born in England, though lets be fair two of my grandparents where not born in the UK. That said I can trace Scottish ancestry back to Dubacan of Angus which is over one thousand years Mind you have been told by bigoted racist Scots to go back to my own country wherever that may be.
I have never voted for the SNP. Given it is a party which believes dodging legal taxes is fine if you don't like them, ones which I paid while living in Scotland as a student I might add, there are no circumstances under which I will ever vote for them.
I voted No to independence in 2014 for the avoidance of any doubt.
Oh and I am not HaggisTrap.
I am however telling it like it is. When Boris goes on TV and says there are no borders all he does in antagonise even No supporting Scots. When Mogg goes on TV and says Scotland is like a region or province there is now steam coming out their ears. This is reality, you can deny it all you want but if you want to save the Union you need to start with reality not alternative facts. Unfortunately the clowns in charge at Westminster seem genetically incapable of doing anything but making matters worse.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Higs wrote: |
| robboj wrote: |
| There was official talk back in the summer of a test that would be able to tell if we had the cold the flu or covid. Has never been heard of since alas. |
Got a reference? |
I've google searched and nothing about it comes up but it definitely happened. IIRC somebody of note announced it, ie either Johnson, Gove or Hancock. Best guess of timing was around June or July?
The premise was this would be the game changer for this winter as it would prevent colds and flu being misdiagnosed as Covid as that would cause chaos and force another lockdown...
I think I might have commented on it in the big Covid thread but I just don't have the time to go through that atm.
We could speculate all day as to why all trace of it seems to have disappeared? Probably best to just presume that it didn't work?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@jabuzzard, probably best to take your point over to the 'Scottish Independence' thread.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Back on the specific topic. If the full UK vaccination process does take until the autumn then the Europeans will need to catch up or they are looking at the year end. So I think it's not unreasonable to plan that, presuming next season does happen, it may be a late starter?
A particularly disappointing situation personally as a confirmed January skier. As a 'cheer up' we were talking about a whole family New Year in a nice Austrian Hotel but I think I'll hold off on that for now. Will maybe think about booking something for the 3rd or 4th week of January but will likely go with a package for the guarantees.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@robboj, the PCR test for Covid is pretty reliable, so is there a need for another form of test? Here in Austria we have a quick turnaround 'antigen' test (not sure what it would be called in the UK), but the positive results can be a little unreliable so they always need to be followed up with a PCR test.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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P.S. The doctors here seem to think that vaccination for non-elderly/at risk people is unlikely to happen much before the end of 2021. Also vaccine-scepticism seems a lot higher here than in the UK.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @robboj, the PCR test for Covid is pretty reliable, so is there a need for another form of test? Here in Austria we have a quick turnaround 'antigen' test (not sure what it would be called in the UK), but the positive results can be a little unreliable so they always need to be followed up with a PCR test. |
I'm not sure but I think that's what's called the LFT (lateral flow test) here? Don't want to go into debates about the whole PCR reliability issue as I'm sure this is covered in great detail elsewhere. To be briefly speculative then I might reasonably question as to why all trace of talk of a test that ensured that the PCR test wasn't misdiagnosing covid has disappeared?
Back to next season what you say doesn't bode well. Hard to believe that it could possibly take that long for a country whose efficiency and organisation has always been so admirable? There are, after all, only 8.9 million people there? In terms of getting it done by numbers the UK is almost there already. In US terms the whole of Austria would had three shots by now!
Rightly or wrongly I think that vaccine scepticism to the extent of refusal will be become impossible for anyone that isn't prepared to live life as a hermit. Pressure from many directions will make it almost impossible to refuse.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 28-01-21 13:22; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I might reasonably question as to why all trace of talk of a test that ensured that the PCR test wasn't misdiagnosing covid has disappeared?
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I have followed the debates reasonably closely and I don't remember a fuss about mis-diagnosis between Covid, flu and the common cold nor talk of a new test which could distinguish between them more effectively. People are understandably clutching at all kinds of straws in the hope of retaining faith in the possibility of ski holidays next season.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I might reasonably question as to why all trace of talk of a test that ensured that the PCR test wasn't misdiagnosing covid has disappeared?
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I have followed the debates reasonably closely and I don't remember a fuss about mis-diagnosis between Covid, flu and the common cold nor talk of a new test which could distinguish between them more effectively. People are understandably clutching at all kinds of straws in the hope of retaining faith in the possibility of ski holidays next season. |
Nope, I very much doubt that would make any difference to whether holidays would be possible. Regardless of what anyone thinks and whether they are or not PCR tests are Teflon for now and the foreseeable future. In fact probably until the eventual enquiry and maybe even until the full details are released in 30- 100 years or so time.
Also I never said there was a fuss, more of a confident announcement that what may have come to pass could be headed off. I never heard anything of it again.
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Interesting. That DnaNudge test is a type of PCR test, it seems, and available commercially for quite a lot of money. And presumably being used in hospitals too, if HMG spend mega-bucks on them. But I don't understand your implication that there's some kind of conspiracy. I'd be interested to know about the cost of the lateral flow tests being so widely used in health care and care homes - they're expensive to buy for Joe Public but they're being used very widely (a family member who is a midwife uses one daily before going into the hospital, as do loads of care workers etc).
I've seen no suggestions that the "standard" lab-based PCR tests fail to distinguish between Covid and other viruses (and would therefore be expected to produce a lot of false positives).
There is a "covid test" thread in apres - perhaps that would be a better place for this discussion.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| vipul wrote: |
| @jabuzzard think you have your blinkers well and truly on . |
I was born in England, though lets be fair two of my grandparents where not born in the UK. That said I can trace Scottish ancestry back to Dubacan of Angus which is over one thousand years Mind you have been told by bigoted racist Scots to go back to my own country wherever that may be.
I have never voted for the SNP. Given it is a party which believes dodging legal taxes is fine if you don't like them, ones which I paid while living in Scotland as a student I might add, there are no circumstances under which I will ever vote for them.
I voted No to independence in 2014 for the avoidance of any doubt.
Oh and I am not HaggisTrap.
I am however telling it like it is. When Boris goes on TV and says there are no borders all he does in antagonise even No supporting Scots. When Mogg goes on TV and says Scotland is like a region or province there is now steam coming out their ears. This is reality, you can deny it all you want but if you want to save the Union you need to start with reality not alternative facts. Unfortunately the clowns in charge at Westminster seem genetically incapable of doing anything but making matters worse. |
Jabuzzard has it spot on - although i would point out that independence does not equate to SNP. Its perfectly possible to vote for independence and then vote for Scottish Labour, Greens or whoever decides to stand in an independent Scotland. I asked the local Conservative candidate if he was going to follow Westminster all his life or whether he had some ambition to be a Scottish Conservative first minister in an independent Scotland. There was a stunned silence and he didn't know what to say.
I'm voting SNP to get independence - then will vote for the best party to lead an independent Scotland - and that might not be SNP...
To Jabuzzard - apologies for any bigotted Scots referring to the land of your birth - if you choose to live here and contribute to our society then all are welcome regardless of where you were born.
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| pam w wrote: |
Interesting. That DnaNudge test is a type of PCR test, it seems, and available commercially for quite a lot of money. And presumably being used in hospitals too, if HMG spend mega-bucks on them. But I don't understand your implication that there's some kind of conspiracy. I'd be interested to know about the cost of the lateral flow tests being so widely used in health care and care homes - they're expensive to buy for Joe Public but they're being used very widely (a family member who is a midwife uses one daily before going into the hospital, as do loads of care workers etc).
I've seen no suggestions that the "standard" lab-based PCR tests fail to distinguish between Covid and other viruses (and would therefore be expected to produce a lot of false positives).
There is a "covid test" thread in apres - perhaps that would be a better place for this discussion. |
You're right, the thread is getting ridiculously off topic although I think the speed/uptake of vaccinations will stay relevant as thats going to be a big part of whether and where we can ski next season.
I'm not intending to suggest any conspiracy as such just that the Government, most Governments in fact, have decided not to engage in the conversation on how good they actually are. It may come out in future that they are pretty good on the other hand it may come out that we would have been better to have dropped them. Time will tell but not I suspect for some years at least. I do think that the Government continuing with any debate that suggested we need a specific additional test to differentiate would have only added fuel to the fire of those whom do believe that PCR testing in itself is part of a conspiracy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jesus, how did this thread become about the case for Scottish independence?
This is meant to be where we come to be unreasonably optimistic about our chances of skiing this year only to be told in no uncertain terms that it isn't going to happen!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Pastorius wrote: |
Jesus, how did this thread become about the case for Scottish independence?
This is meant to be where we come to be unreasonably optimistic about our chances of skiing this year only to be told in no uncertain terms that it isn't going to happen! |
Agreed.
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@robboj, +1 I sometimes wonder how many Snowheads actually have any interest in skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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| esaw1 wrote: |
| @robboj, +1 I sometimes wonder how many Snowheads actually have any interest in skiing. |
There are some whom you never see posting anything about sliding
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| robboj wrote: |
| esaw1 wrote: |
| @robboj, +1 I sometimes wonder how many Snowheads actually have any interest in skiing. |
There are some whom you never see posting anything about sliding |
It's a bit like singletrackworld and bikes 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@OTS, and Pprune and pilots (or lack of them)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are there any skiing-threads on Mumsnet?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Can I just say that I paid the balance on our chalet for Easter today?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Higs wrote: |
| Can I just say that I paid the balance on our chalet for Easter today? |
Good luck, genuinely. Would be nice to hear of someone getting to go.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Higs wrote: |
| Can I just say that I paid the balance on our chalet for Easter today? |
Which country are you hoping to get to? And is it from the UK?
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| L0ve2ski wrote: |
| Higs wrote: |
| Can I just say that I paid the balance on our chalet for Easter today? |
Which country are you hoping to get to? And is it from the UK? |
France, driving from the UK.
We have nothing booked apart from the chalet and can cancel up to 14 days before. We were 'realistically optimistic' when we booked it in November. Right now I think it's highly unlikely that we'll be going but it costs nothing to keep the option open until the last minute.
IF the lifts open (Tignes) and travel into FR and back to UK is unrestricted by mid-March, we'll book ourselves onto Eurotunnel, pack our bags and get down there buying lift passes, hiring skis etc when we arrive.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm going last minute big time. See if anything gets opened up late season and if it does then I'll book absolutely everything last minute.
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Higs,
There's no harm in being optimistic. I have my fingers crossed for you.
Until very recently I was hopeful that we might get to Val Thorens before the end of "this season."
However, while I hope I'm wrong, I just can't see it happening. Given where we are now I can't imagine that a) we will be allowed to travel any time soon; and b) that any lifts will open in France before next winter.
We would be prepared to travel (ie drive, via the tunnel) at short notice - but only when it's safe to do so. Self catering, and, in particular, running the gauntlet of French supermarkets (in light of the ban on filling the car with UK-bought groceries...) doesn't quite appeal like it used to. 
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FAQ
