Poster: A snowHead
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@James77, freedom of movement and EHIC has gone. The terms of any potential deal are about trade, nothing more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@queenie pretty please, thank you.
We'll just have to make the best of it, move forward, stiff upper lip n all that.
Hopefully good news for trade.
Two words I'll happily never hear again Brexit and Covid.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Quote: |
Two words I'll happily never hear again Brexit and Covid
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@James77,
Another - Johnson
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Raab, Gove, Shapps, Patel. I could go on.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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queenie pretty please wrote: |
@James77, freedom of movement and EHIC has gone. The terms of any potential deal are about trade, nothing more. |
I was hoping the EHIC would be included in the deal (didn't realise the whole thing was just about trade.. )
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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EHIC might return, it was a separate treaty....fingers crossed
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albob wrote: |
queenie pretty please wrote: |
@James77, freedom of movement and EHIC has gone. The terms of any potential deal are about trade, nothing more. |
I was hoping the EHIC would be included in the deal (didn't realise the whole thing was just about trade.. ) |
It's disastrous news for those of us with (very) elderly parents that travel abroad occasionally and who previously relied on the EHIC, as insurance costs will most likely be prohibitive.
Although my MIL is very fit (generally speaking) she is 82, with pre existing conditions covered by medication. She usually does an annual trip to Val Thorens for a week at Easter, with Mrs B, when they use the ski lifts and go snow shoeing and walking. At home, she is in a rambling group and walks 3 to 5 miles twice a week. When my MIL first tried snow shoeing (with a guide, 3 years ago in VT) she described it as the best day of her life!
Last year the 2 of them snow-shoed from Les Menuires to St Martin along the high- level track (from the top of Roc 1 to the top of St Martin 1), which took them 4 hours. Nevertheless, my MIL loved the experience.
It's just a shame that the EHIC has gone.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Weathercam, I wouldn't beleive anything they print in The Daily Fail nearly as bad as The Express.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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EHIC was never available for UK once the "red lines" of no ECJ were made.
Healthcare is a national competence, not an EU-wide competence. That means the EU is legally unable to treat for health competence with a third country such as the UK. The exception to this is the EU-EFTA and EU-CH Treaties whereby all parties agree to be bound by ECJ decisions (thus allowing EHIC disputes to be under jurisprudence of ECJ).
A shame for people with pre-existing health conditions, whose travel insurance costs will now cost more then the holiday itself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Android2000, My Mrs has several pre-existing health conditions and insurance isn't that expensive for 'outside the EU', so I can't see it being that much more expensive for the EU.
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I have a pre existing chronic condition and my Nationwide FlexPlus Travel insurance covers it as I have declared it. Also cover for catching Covid whilst abroad.
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You know it makes sense.
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When you balance-out the cost of the NHS treating EU citizens against the cost of EU countries treating UK citizens the difference is tiny, in GDP terms. But the administrative convenience is substantial. Reinstating EHIC nearer to the next election could easily be worth the cost if it mollified holidaying voters. Governments are always on the lookout for any good headlines, and it could get a lot of voter approval for reinstating EHIC. This would be the usual political trick of taking something away one year, only to reinstate it to great fanfare again, as a new initiative, once everyone has forgotten why it disappeared in the first place. So I still have hope that we may see it back, even if the motivation is purely one of political self-interest. It'd also get a big endorsement from the insurers and probably see some Party donations from travel and insurance magnates, so a neat way of using public funds to ensure Party income as well. Not that I'm a cynic.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Bilateral agreements for reciprocal healthcare for emergency treatment?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hurdy wrote: |
Bilateral agreements for reciprocal healthcare for emergency treatment? |
Hopefully that might happen given some time to reach agreements (although of course it would mean having to have a separate card for each country you visit, still I'm sure I can fit several cards into my wallet. )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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LaForet wrote: |
When you balance-out the cost of the NHS treating EU citizens against the cost of EU countries treating UK citizens the difference is tiny, in GDP terms. But the administrative convenience is substantial. Reinstating EHIC nearer to the next election could easily be worth the cost if it mollified holidaying voters. Governments are always on the lookout for any good headlines, and it could get a lot of voter approval for reinstating EHIC. This would be the usual political trick of taking something away one year, only to reinstate it to great fanfare again, as a new initiative, once everyone has forgotten why it disappeared in the first place. So I still have hope that we may see it back, even if the motivation is purely one of political self-interest. It'd also get a big endorsement from the insurers and probably see some Party donations from travel and insurance magnates, so a neat way of using public funds to ensure Party income as well. Not that I'm a cynic. |
Or alternatively a European (EU) medical emergency insurance insurance policy could be introduced and underwritten by the Govt for a nominal fee. The biggest beef that I have with the NHS is that it doesn't encourage any degree of personal responsibility or accountability. I doubt wholesale overhaul of the NHS will happen this parliamentary term - it has become a covid-safe sacred cow - but it needs to happen.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dravot, the trouble is that the Conservatives have already done a "wholesale overhaul of the NHS" and that is what caused a lot of the shortcomings that were shown up by Covid (thanks Andrew Lansley).
It is reasonable to say there needs to be a strategic re-think to make sure it can work better in the interest of the population rather than the interest of private providers, but it is impossible to think the current government could be trusted to do that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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j b wrote: |
@Dravot, the trouble is that the Conservatives have already done a "wholesale overhaul of the NHS" and that is what caused a lot of the shortcomings that were shown up by Covid (thanks Andrew Lansley).
It is reasonable to say there needs to be a strategic re-think to make sure it can work better in the interest of the population rather than the interest of private providers, but it is impossible to think the current government could be trusted to do that. |
Has there been though - or just a constant reshuffle of management practices and moving the deck chairs around?
I was thinking more like fundamentally changing the central funding mechanism, pay per use supplemented via insurance - similar to Germany.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dravot, Do you mean that those who can afford better insurance will benefit from a better service?
eems to me to be completely against the ethos of the NHS
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brianatab wrote: |
@Dravot, Do you mean that those who can afford better insurance will benefit from a better service?
eems to me to be completely against the ethos of the NHS |
People who can afford private health insurance already get a far better service than that provided by the NHS. We have a good system here in CH. It's insurance based, and you can shop around for the deal that suits you best. All the insurance companies have to follow some rules - they cannot refuse you cover on the basis of existing conditions for example. And you can tailor your cover to suit your circumstances. Healthy people can opt for a higher excess in return for a reduced premium. And you get a 'no claims bonus' if you’re lucky and stay healthy. Obviously, you can choose your clinician. It's a good system - compulsory for everyone here.
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Stop the hysteria.
Millions of folks from ~190 countries worldwide outside the EU27 happily vacay in the EU every year and have done for decades.
UK is not some special bubble.
Logon the Web.
Buy insurance.
Go ski.
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@Whitegold, Get some English lessons.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Dravot, clearly we know from countries like Germany that a well run mandatory insurance system can be used to fund universal healthcare. But where their health system has worked better than the UK's is down to more sensible government, not the the funding process. As I said above, the issue for the NHS is to avoid expensive re-organisations designed to benefit only private contractors of healthcare, rather than an organisation that focusses on providing a good service to the whole population. It would be politically very difficult to change and get everyone to start paying for mandatory insurance, even if income taxes were reduced to compensate it would mean an extra cost for many people for the same service.
@telford_mike, it isn't true in the UK that private health insurance provides a better service. Try turning up at a private hospital in an emergency (e.g. acute heart attack or stroke), they will turn you away. Or with anything complicated or out of the ordinary. Their model is to take low-risk routine conditions, but they are able to take patients quickly because their high fees are a huge incentive for NHS consultants to moonlight.
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brianatab wrote: |
@Dravot, Do you mean that those who can afford better insurance will benefit from a better service?
seems to me to be completely against the ethos of the NHS |
Thats my point about wholesale change. Bevan's plan was laudable and affordable in 1948 for a population of 52m with relatively unsophisticated medical sciences. The founding principles must now be challenged, particularly the "free at point of delivery".
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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j b wrote: |
@Dravot, clearly we know from countries like Germany that a well run mandatory insurance system can be used to fund universal healthcare. But where their health system has worked better than the UK's is down to more sensible government, not the the funding process. As I said above, the issue for the NHS is to avoid expensive re-organisations designed to benefit only private contractors of healthcare, rather than an organisation that focusses on providing a good service to the whole population. It would be politically very difficult to change and get everyone to start paying for mandatory insurance, even if income taxes were reduced to compensate it would mean an extra cost for many people for the same service.
@telford_mike, it isn't true in the UK that private health insurance provides a better service. Try turning up at a private hospital in an emergency (e.g. acute heart attack or stroke), they will turn you away. Or with anything complicated or out of the ordinary. Their model is to take low-risk routine conditions, but they are able to take patients quickly because their high fees are a huge incentive for NHS consultants to moonlight. |
The principle still holds good though. If I have a tumble up the hill tomorrow I will be taken to a private hospital and my insurance company will pay for my treatment. The fact that the U.K. doesn’t currently do it that way doesn’t mean that the NHS is the only way emergency healthcare can possibly work for the U.K. Nothing will change though, because the NHS is such an emotive subject in the U.K. It would be political suicide for any of the major parties to include something along the lines of 'privatise the NHS' in a manifesto.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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new equivalent of EHIC for Uk citizens annouced in paper today....another "we're all doomed" bubble burst!
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It's not true to say that privatising NHS is always or even often bad. Mrs works as a health visitor, our area was taken over by virgin care a few years ago. They have completely changed the way they work, one hub which contains a call centre for parents to call for advice as well as office space, this replaces several other offices which duplicated functions, they now all have lap tops which allow records to be accessed and updated during visits, this saves a huge amount of time, there are other benefits too, of course the issue of top heavy management hasn't been addressed yet as their jobs are protected, while management is needed the extra layers added during the labour years in power just waste huge resources.
Everyone with open eyes that works in the nhs knows it needs to change as does the mentality of the public that run to the quack for every little snivel .
How to do it without the political consensus is very hard.
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You know it makes sense.
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@telford_mike, that's what I said, it is a political issue. If you were starting from scratch either version would do, but starting from where we are ... a change would produce problems out of all proportion to the little real benefit.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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j b wrote: |
@telford_mike, that's what I said, it is a political issue. If you were starting from scratch either version would do, but starting from where we are ... a change would produce problems out of all proportion to the little real benefit. |
JB, agreed - but incremental changes can address some of the cultural issues we suffer with "free" healthcare, eg, paying (a nominal fee) for a GP appointment would reduce malingering and significantly reduce failures-to-attend, which currently is c17m appointments a year. Likewise, charging for A&E services - particularly where self-induced (sporting injuries/RTAs/Darwinian stupidity) would add to the coffers and change behaviour. Given how we collectively wet the bed at a 5p carrier bag charge, I'm sure a tenner for a GP appointment of 50 quid for A&E would work pretty quickly....
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dravot, again there is political acceptability but yes, I can see evolutionary changes that incentivise people by financial and other means to using the most cost-efficient service.
But the first OAP lacking £50 who needlessly dies of a treatable heart attack would create a rapid reversal. The whole system is worthless if it doesn't function for the most needy. At the moment we have my 86-year-old (and pretty deaf) mother-in-law with us for Christmas, and it is clear that the changes every couple of days over what you can and can't do because of Covid have left her feeling inappropriately vulnerable. Thank goodness she is on a vaccination programme now.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Maybe all you Randians could wait until the dust has settled on Brexit before proposing disrupting something else.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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j b wrote: |
@Dravot, again there is political acceptability but yes, I can see evolutionary changes that incentivise people by financial and other means to using the most cost-efficient service.
But the first OAP lacking £50 who needlessly dies of a treatable heart attack would create a rapid reversal. The whole system is worthless if it doesn't function for the most needy. At the moment we have my 86-year-old (and pretty deaf) mother-in-law with us for Christmas, and it is clear that the changes every couple of days over what you can and can't do because of Covid have left her feeling inappropriately vulnerable. Thank goodness she is on a vaccination programme now. |
A charging regime would need exemptions for the most needy as per prescriptions and dentistry now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dravot, according to @Hells Bells on another thread, exemptions cover 85% of prescriptions. Which makes one wonder whether charges work to motivate in the way intended.
Sadly, in pre-NHS days there were a lot of preventable deaths due to people delaying seeking medical advice for financial reasons. It was one of the main reasons it was created - I think it was only later that universal insurance-based models emerged.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hang on, hang on .................. is this season going to happen depends on privatising parts of the NHS?
Please get back on thread people, the EIHC is still in place currently, and has little significance in terms of travelling, self-isolating, and negative Covid tests.
Can UK skiers/Boarders get away this coming ski season? Currently my go to ski destination, the Arlberg, has limited opening for local skiers only. Hopefully at some point this season I'm going to be okay to ski there. Not 100% certain!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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j b wrote: |
we know from countries like Germany that a well run mandatory insurance system can be used to fund universal healthcare. |
I thought we already paid for a mandatory health insurance system in the UK so that we could receive treatment free at the point of use...isn't it called National Insurance?!?
They've certainly had more NI cash out of me over the years than I've ever cost the NHS, though that may change in the years to come.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 26-12-20 22:04; edited 4 times in total
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skimastaaah wrote: |
Hang on, hang on .................. is this season going to happen depends on privatising parts of the NHS?
Please get back on thread people, the EIHC is still in place currently, and has little significance in terms of travelling, self-isolating, and negative Covid tests.
Can UK skiers/Boarders get away this coming ski season? Currently my go to ski destination, the Arlberg, has limited opening for local skiers only. Hopefully at some point this season I'm going to be okay to ski there. Not 100% certain! |
A certificate of vaccination might be a game changer, but will it come in time for this season?
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luigi wrote: |
j b wrote: |
we know from countries like Germany that a well run mandatory insurance system can be used to fund universal healthcare. |
I thought we already paid for a mandatory health insurance system in the UK so that we could receive treatment free at the point of use...isn't it called National Insurance?!?
They've certainly had more NI cash out of me over the years than I've ever cost the NHS, though that may change in the years to come. |
NHS is mainly funded from tax revenue, of which NI forms a part; NI also funds pensions which are equally unaffordable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So....Is this season going to happen for the British?
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I think only when UK is on EU safe countries list. Unless there is pressure from resorts that they want UK skiers back, if they are particularly dependent on UK business.
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