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Is This Season Going To Happen for The British ???

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Some people are completely missing the point here. Its only currently the (did you say 24th?) biggest killer currently because of the actions taken. The two things arent exclusive of each other.
I agree that some of the measures taken may turn out not to have been necessary but we will only learn that through hindsight. but for now, surely the right thing to do is take the more cautious approach as the consequence of getting it wrong in that way means too much inconvenience, whereas not being cautious enough could lead to more deaths, NHS becoming overwhlemed and then truly drastic impacts to society.
I do suspect that our desire to live normally creates bias and makes us want to believe this is all OTT so we can justify breaking the rules or go skiing. Im not finger pointing there, but I do think its a thing and probably something I do myself without realising
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@snowdave, I don't believe I said it's a non issue at all quite the opposite in fact, it's just not the epidemic we are being fed and and if the main stream media were allowed to broadcast sensible opposition and debate we'd all be better informed, but unfortunately Ofcom banned that in July.

Agree, we're off topic and I hate that there are are too many threads that wander for pages and pages. I have a holiday booked February half term and of course it has protection you'd be mad not to, but that's not down the so called pandemic, it's down to the UK Government who are set on a path of zero COVID which is impossible and there is nothing we can do to stop them so who in their right mind would book a non refundable holiday?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:


And for what it's worth if I can get past your narrow minded view. Covid does kill, but it is not a prolific killer or rampant, the death rate is 0.025%. This is not a crisis or epidemic, protect the vulnerable, open the country use flu season protocols (I borrowed this quote as it sums it up so well).



A quick bit of maths.

42,000 people have died from Covid in the UK. That’s 0.06% of the entire UK population.

So suggestions that the true IFR of Covid is 0.025% are clearly nonsense.
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@Ryunis, No you're missing the point if you read the science lockdown has little affect and it's widely viewed that infections were reducing when we locked down in March, we'd already passed the peak and this virus follows seasonality as with other coronavirus and flu. The NHS was never overwhelmed and was never likely to be. This is the issue, fear and scaremonger that is in the media and rammed down our throats, it's only natural people are and continue to be terrified.

COVID has a incredibly high survival rate far lower than pneumonia and seasonal flu, again this has been proven with science but is not widely shared due to media hiatus.

Look, just go and find out for yourself. Look at Professor Carl Heneghan, Dr Mike Yeadon, Professor Karol Sikora, Professor Sunetra Gupta, Ivor Cummins and Dr Martin Freely.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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So we have half term in Switzerland booked as usual with our wonderful TO. If quarantine still in place I think we might have to roll it forward come December and look for a late booking if circumstances change later in the season. Very difficult to quarantine with older kids in school.
Also with younger kids also needing ski/wrap around lessons and nannies etc which our operator does brilliantly, I can’t see Scotland easily being a solution for us sadly. But if anyone knows better then I’d love to hear about it. snowHead
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Excess mortality appears to be very low, or almost non-existent, for those under 60 and those w/out underlying conditions. I feel perhaps a reasonable comprise would be to dedicate resources to protecting those vulnerable while relieving the rest of the population of the heavy restrictions. The increase in economic activity could pay for that extra care and attention to the vulnerable many times over.

Anyway I am booking bits and pieces of an early Feb trip CH as they become available with last minute cancellation options and will just have to play it by ear.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Android2000, It's all online go and find out for yourself there is an official COVID mortality.

To be honest I don't really care, you keep burying your heads and leave the slopes quiet for me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I’ve seen this Ivor Cummins video, and I’ve also seen his claims in it roundly debunked by epidemiologists.

More than 0.06% of the UK entire population has died from Covid. Basic maths tell you that this means the IFR is higher than 0.025%
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
James77 wrote:
Look, just go and find out for yourself. Look at Professor Carl Heneghan, Dr Mike Yeadon, Professor Karol Sikora, Professor Sunetra Gupta, Ivor Cummins and Dr Martin Freely.

Who represent the one in a hundred expert medics who disagree with the current analysis and strategy. Of course, it's important to understand dissenting opinion, but be aware that's what it is, and make sure you read beyond them as well.

What I absolutely disagree with on both moral and epidemiological grounds, is that 42,000 additional deaths directly due to Covid are somehow not significant and are so insignificant as to make serious countermeasures unnecessary. That those countermeasures may make my ski holiday next year unviable is hardly a cause for complaint, given the consequences of under-reacting to a global pandemic.
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halfhand wrote:


The needs of the Many outweigh the needs of the Few wink

http://youtube.com/v/v1mE_lyVKRQ


although with Covid isn't it more the needs of the few (elderly with co morbidities) outweighing the needs of the many?

Talking of which, fat people, you've had 6 months to lose weight, enough already.
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@davidof, No it isn't Toofy Grin
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If you think the fat = the few, @davidof, you've not been to Asda in a while. Twisted Evil
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:
If you think the fat = the few, @davidof, you've not been to Asda in a while. Twisted Evil


I don't think I've been to ASDA ever Happy !
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A number of people are falling into the propaganda trap....42000 haven't died FROM Covid; they have died WITH Covid. A stark and fundamental difference. If we reported deaths from excess weight in the same manner we'd be reporting c1000*+ daily deaths of people that died from weight management, not died with weight management issues.
(*c1400 5 year daily death rate in UK)

Keeping it on topic - this continued hysteria will almost certainly scupper 20/21 winter. Action Outdoors just emailed this AM offering full refunds / credit notes.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 2-10-20 14:30; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Fri evening is the perfect time & now you have the added benefit of wearing a mask to hide you sniggers. It's truly a sight to be seen
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So 5, 10 years down the line we now have thousands perhaps millions of people with terminal cancer, rotten teeth, and of course other illnesses left undiagnosed and untreated so we can save people such as me, age 63 fit as a fiddle.
What about the children’s health and teeth?? Slightly off topic and, I hope to ski!!!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dravot wrote:
A number of people are falling into the propaganda trap....42000 haven't died FROM Covid; they have died WITH Covid.

Right, a bunch of people who had lived quite normally for years with well-controlled hypertension had all suddenly died of hypertension complication, AND WITH COVID. Shocked Shocked Shocked

But hey, they didn't die "FROM" Covid. rolling eyes rolling eyes rolling eyes
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I’m no conspiracy theorist but something’s not adding up
ski holidays
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abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
A number of people are falling into the propaganda trap....42000 haven't died FROM Covid; they have died WITH Covid.

Right, a bunch of people who had lived quite normally for years with well-controlled hypertension had all suddenly died of hypertension complication, AND WITH COVID. Shocked Shocked Shocked

But hey, they didn't die "FROM" Covid. rolling eyes rolling eyes rolling eyes


Has that happened? Possibly - but I go back to: shield the most vulnerable, get the country opened up. This paralysis will wreck us for decades unless lifted.

Regarding conspiracy - the conventional battle-space has evolved to include cyber and space domains - 2020 has proved that a global pandemic is probably the most cost-efficient and effective mechanism to gain strategic and economic advantage over your adversaries.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Saving lives or politicians covering their backsides; whilst living of us and claiming their expenses
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Some absolute crackpots on here. So if some of the 42000, or whatever the actual figure is, had covid but didn't die from covid, that makes it insignificant? What % of the total do you think died from something else?
Tell this to the 10 residents or families of residents at one local care home who died from covid (sorry died with covid) by the end of May.
Why the conspiracy theories? Who benefits from this being made up or exaggerated?
Who benefits from denying or belittling it is the more pertinent question...
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Ryunis, +1

Either it's a vast giant global conspiracy that every country in the world has agreed to simultaneously crash its economy and nobody has broken ranks (look how well that works for a handful of countries in OPEC!) or maybe it's real.

42k may be an underestimate; UK excess deaths over the peak COVID period were c. 60k.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Ryunis wrote:
Some absolute crackpots on here. So if some of the 42000, or whatever the actual figure is, had covid but didn't die from covid, that makes it insignificant? What % of the total do you think died from something else?
Tell this to the 10 residents or families of residents at one local care home who died from covid (sorry died with covid) by the end of May.
Why the conspiracy theories? Who benefits from this being made up or exaggerated?
Who benefits from denying or belittling it is the more pertinent question...


Did you just come here to call people names, or pragmatically discuss skiing, on a ski forum?

There's no denial, the data from around the world seems fully verified and unarguably poignant.

But isn't the thread about how we proceed now taking into account all the above?
ski holidays
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susieski wrote:
So 5, 10 years down the line we now have thousands perhaps millions of people with terminal cancer, rotten teeth, and of course other illnesses left undiagnosed and untreated so we can save people such as me, age 63 fit as a fiddle.63
What about the children’s health and teeth?? Slightly off topic and, I hope to ski!!!

So 5, 10 years down the line, we now have thousands, perhaps millions of people with lung and heart damage after "surviving" Covid. And we didn't save people such as my Mom, 83, fit as a fiddle. 83! rolling eyes
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Dravot wrote:
abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
A number of people are falling into the propaganda trap....42000 haven't died FROM Covid; they have died WITH Covid.

Right, a bunch of people who had lived quite normally for years with well-controlled hypertension had all suddenly died of hypertension complication, AND WITH COVID. Shocked Shocked Shocked

But hey, they didn't die "FROM" Covid. rolling eyes rolling eyes rolling eyes


Has that happened? Possibly - but I go back to: shield the most vulnerable, get the country opened up. This paralysis will wreck us for decades unless lifted.

Regarding conspiracy - the conventional battle-space has evolved to include cyber and space domains - 2020 has proved that a global pandemic is probably the most cost-efficient and effective mechanism to gain strategic and economic advantage over your adversaries.

Has it happened?

If it hadn't happened, what's the need to "shield the most vulnerable"?

If it had indeed happened, what else has been happening that people are saying it didn't?

Do we or do we not have a pandemic? How severe is this pandemic? You can't pick and choose your "favorite" data set to support your arbitrary preference of policies.

That's what conspiracy theory was about, pick and choose "evidence" supporting their own twisted reality.
ski holidays
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There is definitely a pandemic - nobody is denying that. I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from. You could argue a (political) conspiracy to over-play the situation to create political head-room, likewise, ask about the real origin of the virus and why. 100% it came from a research lab in Wuhan, noting that Wuhan/Hubei was completely locked down by Mid-Jan.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Dravot wrote:
I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from.

That's your definition of "from" vs "with"?

So, if a blind person fell off the fire escape while a fire was at the door of his flat, did he die from the fire or from falling?
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from.

That's your definition of "from" vs "with"?

So, if a blind person fell off the fire escape while a fire was at the door of his flat, did he die from the fire or from falling?


I think some are frustrated that if someone say aged 22 otherwise fit an healthy we’re hit And flattened by bus and died but was found to have Covid they would count as a Covid death.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
More of a focus needed on life years saved rather than lives. A 40 year old dying of cancer due to lack of treatment would probably have lived ten times longer than an 80 year old dying of/with covid. Once you look at this statistic, lockdown policies look very damaging indeed.
And that’s before you even start the argument the quality of those years saved.
Public health economics has to deal with whole populations not one individuals grandma. What we have spent on saving covid lives is at least an order of magnitude above what NICE are usually prepared to spend on any other illness.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Lets not derail this thread as the all covid and end of the world talk winds me up Laughing I've had to stop posting on the thread in the bar.

One last post from me on the matter. 42k have died with covid not because of it, current estimates predict at least a third of the deaths were not related. Nobody knows how many deaths were caused by poor hygiene and practice in the hospitals.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from.

That's your definition of "from" vs "with"?

So, if a blind person fell off the fire escape while a fire was at the door of his flat, did he die from the fire or from falling?


If he had covid then it would be 42001 deaths with Covid....that's my point.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dravot wrote:
abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from.

That's your definition of "from" vs "with"?

So, if a blind person fell off the fire escape while a fire was at the door of his flat, did he die from the fire or from falling?


If he had covid then it would be 42001 deaths with Covid....that's my point.

That maybe your point, but is it the reality?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
russ_e wrote:
Nobody knows how many deaths were caused by poor hygiene and practice in the hospitals.

Just because you don't know doesn't mean "nobody knows".

There're matrix measuring general cross contamination/infections. Like Covid numbers, it's not always possible to attribute a death/infection to a single root cause. But there're pretty clear patterns.
ski holidays
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abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
abc wrote:
Dravot wrote:
I would however argue that less than a minute percentage of fit/healthy ppl have been directly and seriously affected by the virus. Nearly all fatalities and complications are from aged or ppl with underlying health issues - hence with, not from.

That's your definition of "from" vs "with"?

So, if a blind person fell off the fire escape while a fire was at the door of his flat, did he die from the fire or from falling?


If he had covid then it would be 42001 deaths with Covid....that's my point.

That maybe your point, but is it the reality?


I suspect that the truth is somewhere in-between. Lots of old/frail/poorly people dying with/from or probably accelerated by Covid. Millions & millions of ppl completely unaffected.
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Quote:

I suspect that the truth is somewhere in-between. Lots of old/frail/poorly people dying with/from or probably accelerated by Covid. Millions & millions of ppl completely unaffected.

There's no doubt many people were not sick despite infection. Just as there'er plenty whose death "accelerated by Covid".

But just as many who believe the pandemic is "nothing but a bad flu", there're many who insist those "accelerated death" are NOT-Covid-related. After all, the latter "supports" the former.

It may not be a conspiracy. It may simply be confirmation bias.
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This is an example of someone dying with covid and not because.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/entertainment-arts-52136768

RIP Eddie!
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dravot, the overwhelming genetic evidence is that virus was NOT created in any lab, anywhere ...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
This thread has wandered way off topic!

Let’s get it back on track.

I returned from Austria in March just before the great shutdown, as usual I bought flights for next winter ( Trips in January and March) then later I bought flights for a pre Christmas trip. Just recently all of my flights have been cancelled by the various airlines. However, they have been rescheduled. I always DIY my trips so can keep quite flexible, just need to stay optimistic.

I guess it’s not so easy for those who take package holidays, then my advise would be to wait until the last minute, but be prepared in advance.

Kept happy every one Very Happy
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under a new name wrote:
@Dravot, the overwhelming genetic evidence is that virus was NOT created in any lab, anywhere ...


that's not what he said
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@Ryunis, the cautious approach means that there is an enormous backlog of tests and procedures that cure other diseases, as well as the 20% drop in the economy. All decisions have costs and if twice the number of people are dying of suicide then why aren't we pissing billions up the wall on treating that?

There is virtually no argument to be had: the number of deaths compared to other illnesses is minute especially when put against the population of 67 million. The predictions from Imperial are and were bunk, and there was evidence from Foot and Mouth that they were going to be bunk.

Just as a small illustration of the waste: 650 million spent on ventilators in the initial panic: this could've educated a generation of doctors, nurses, paramedics, radiographers, everyone! free of charge. How many lives would that have saved in the long run? What about all the gluttons troughing down State-subsidised food and sticking it on the bill for our children and grandchildren? Why is it you are all obsessed with the tiny numbers of deaths yet not the enormous numbers in the economy and elsewhere in the NHS? How many tens of thousands of cancers have to be missed before you regain some sanity?

I'm embarrassed to see a nation of cowards who are utterly unable to manage risk, it's pathetic. I recently read a really good article on the life of empires and it would appear we've entered Glubb's 'decadent phase': safe, propsperous, avoid risk, timid, putting up walls: https://quillette.com/2020/09/30/pasha-glubb-and-avoiding-the-fate-of-empires/.

"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one"
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