Advice on Levi in December

A snowHead

Hi all

First of all like to say what a great forum this is, i have read quite a bit so far and found some good info.

Me, my other half and our 6yr old dauughter are going to Levi in Lapland mid December for 5 days, we are going with Inghams on the santa trip so should have a couple of days free to do some skiing.
We have just done our beginners course at Chill Factor in Manchester and are going in 2 weeks to have another day lesson (thought it was better to learn here than waste time over there). All 3 of us really loving skiing so far so cant wait to try it out on the real slopes.

Main thing im after is a bit of advice on is for my other half, she suffers from this-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raynaud%27s_phenomenon
which is brought on by the cold. Now at Chill Factor the temp is generally -2.6 and with ski suit and gloves she's been fine but im aware that in Levi mid December it can be a lot lower than this. Main things she has to keep warm are hands, feet & head.
Ive bought her a second hand degre 7 suit which seems to do a good job for her but im after advice on what she can do to keep feet and hands as warm as possible. I have read about boot heaters but as we are only there a couple of days for skiing it seems an awful lot of money to outlay for the use it would get. I was wondering is it possible to hire boots with these in from hire shops in Levi? I have tried to find daily temps for last December to get an idea of what its like but cant find the info anywhere.

Also any advice for total novices there would be really welcome as our only experience of skiing will be from Manchester so we won't have a clue as to what signs/rules we need to follow over there, im just hoping signs are in English!!. Have looked at prices in hire shops over there online, is that the best way to go or is it better to try and book with travel firm over there?

Thanks in advance

fj

A snowHead

I spent a few days in Levi in 2006 (February) and enjoyed the skiing there - you can see a few of my photos here (and a couple more on the next page).

It will likely be cold when you are there, can be well below zero. On one web site I have seen the average December temperature given as -12.3°C. If your wife has problems, I guess you'll just have to abandon the skiing for a bit and go indoors. I can't help directly about boot heaters. I suspect they may not be available for hire but you could try contacting the ski hire shops in Levi directly, for example at Zero Point - their web site gives a telephone number and e-mail address.

If you are interested, there are also reviews of Levi at the Ski Club of Great Britain web site. Most people find Levi special, a bit different from your Alpine ski resort but with its own charm. I doubt I would recommend it for beginners, because of the cold (though it is mostly a dry cold), but I hope you have a great time!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Hi espri

Thanks for the reply, im hoping if she wears enough layers that should help but ive read different things on what layers on hands and feet. Some say wear one thick pair of socks and a thick pair of gloves and others say try and have about 3 layers on.
Im a little worried about how we will find the easier slopes as obviously we are all novices and my daughter is 6 so any advice on that would be very welcome.

Thanks

fj

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The slopes are relatively easy (everything's relative when you're a beginner Laughing

). There are certainly places for beginners. It would be a good idea to have intruction in Levi, if you can. The instructor will then know what slopes are best for your standard. Having lessons beforehand is a good start, though.

One other thing: it's a good idea to have extra pairs of gloves, although with Levi probably being pretty dry snow that maybe isn't quite as important as in warmer, wetter places.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

fj2k, The easy slopes are very easy so don't worry. The reds would be blue/green in some places. One pair of socks and good gloves, with thin glove liners. You may need a face mask which they sell in the shops. In mid december you may be skiing under lights, there are lots of them! lessons are not long because of the cold. There are also warming tents with real fires in them in various places.

No idea on age of your daughter, (edit just read 6...) but there is a good kids land with free sledges etc (and a rope tow) sometimes with a reindeer to pet as well.

Then you go to a restaurant and eat reindeer which i found a bit odd.....

you could try cross country as well, friends did snowmobile and baloon stuff organised via tourist office. The father christmas visit was also actually very well done and not tacky at all, but this was 6 years ago.

If you see the northern lights its fantastic.

oh one not so good point, get used to t bars...there are lots of them.

above all enjoy it as an all round winter holiday, skiing is just one of the things to do.

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Thanks for that carroz. We are hoping to have basic skiing down by the time we go as hoping to get some hours in at chill factor before we go. Would you reccomend getting lessons when we are over there or are there any kind of guided groups that get you used to the slopes to save us getting lost. Sorry if that seems to a stupid question but like i say we havent really got much of an idea what we are doing. Agree on enjoying the whole holiday, santa trip and husky & reindeer trip already booked so cant wait!!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Not what you want to hear, but I have never been so cold as I was in Yllas, Lapland in December a couple of years ago. Started at minus 4 on the first day, but was around minus 26 on at least three days. I didn't know my eyelashes could freeze!

The worst times were feet and hands while waiting for the ski bus, and feet while touring the reindeer farm. Even with decent ski socks and gloves - do NOT skimp on gloves. Get your wife glove liners too. I got mine quite cheap on Ebay.

There are plenty of solutions for body warmth - either regular ski clothing in layers or the thermal suits you can hire in resort. However, if your wife has particular issues then the expensive boot warmers could well be worth it (never tried them).

On the plus side, Lapland is great, and ideal for beginners. You'll have a great time!

After all it is free

Cheers for that any gloves you could reccomend, I have been looking at these for her but dont know how good they are-
http://outlet.snowandrock.com/degre-7-women%27s-bret-glove-white/gloves/ski-snowboard-outdoor-sports/fcp-product/1727

I'll be honest with you, I'm no expert on gloves or equipment. When I say "don't skimp on gloves", I mean my first ever pair were £10 from a supermarket and didn't keep me warm or dry. My next (and any subsequent pairs) were chosen randomly from a "proper" shop, and I would probably have picked something very similar to the pair in your link.

Recently I've been wearing mitts with "finger bits" (no technical terms here!) inside, supplemented with my glove liners. Having learned the hard way, I know know to keep them tucked inside my sleeves or snow gets in. Fairly obvious for anyone with common sense :0)

My current pair are http://www.ldmountaincentre.com/product.aspx?id=887&aid=2 but as I said, I am definitely no expert!

A bit of an aside, but I found this site http://www.lapland.fruitbandit.com/ pretty useful for info on they types of clothing I might need in Lapland. Hope that helps.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

fj2k, Lessons would be a good idea, if you have done some stuff in a fridge then next group up from beginners. Levi seemed to have a number of lift bases, the one with the gondola seemed quite a way from where the main hotel was, which seemed to be the main focal point. Its not very big so you won't get lost, as far as i remember there is a road that goes up to the top of the ski area. They groom everything very flat (no moguls anywhere)

I agree withalibongo42, it can be very cold, i have an old horrible coloured ski suit, which i put on on the second day, (after my wife stuffed it in the case at the last minute) who cares about what it looked like, it was very warm. However it was not very cold all the time, just don't ski for a very long time, have breaks, cooking sausages over the fire in the little tents is popular!

I use hestra gloves, with a liner when it is very cold, my hands don't ever get cold. They appear on ebay from time to time.

Decent skis socks and make sure you ski boots are dry (so get someone to show you how to take the liners out and dry them overnight) and a face mask for the very cold days you should be fine.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Thanks so much for all the advice guys, mrs feels a lot less worried than she was about it now!!

By the way if its any help to anyone who is learning or about to start learning at chill factor i have a code for a 50 minute private lesson knocking price down from £120 to £60 code is 1PL60

snow reports

Oh yeah Carroz, definitely a face mask or buff, or something that covers as much of your face as possible. Not only will your eyelashes freeze, but so will the downy hair on your face!

I found that a combination of wearing my helmet, goggles and buff tucked into my jacket and pulled over my nose just about did the trick. You can buy neoprene facemasks, but I reckon these make people look like scary ninjas! As Carroz says, you won't need this kit all of the time, but you probably will at least sometimes,

As carroz says, the main focal point, particularly for beginners, is near the Levitunturi hotel and probably you won't be interested in the gondola, which serves steeper runs. If you want to see those runs and what the snow is like in Levi, there are slaloms there on 12th-13th November (though I don't know whether they will be televised in the UK - Eurosport will probaby show them).

You know it makes sense.

It got down to -37C when I was there, the warmest it was was -18C (this was end of Jan) it was pretty extreme. The slopes are pretty easy but avoid anything above the treeline when it's really cold, the lifties have enclosed cabins they stay in because of the extreme cold, make sure there is not a single bit of exposed skin. As for difficulty, it's pretty easy but there are a lot of T-bars.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

How many hours of daylight are there at that time of year, not many I guess. Probably as much floodlit skiing as natural light.

A snowHead

It'll be light from around 1030 - 1430/1500. The floodlit skiing is quite exciting!

A snowHead

Watched a few videos on youtube of the t-bars, i thought button lift ive used was tricky to master but those things look like they have a mind of there own! Think ill deffo take a lesson just to get a feel for the slope and where we should be on it and a bit of training on the lifts!!!!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

fj2k, thanks for starting this thread, i am just looking at arranging the santa trip with the family but with a couple of days skiing tagged on. My girls are 8 and 6, eldest has skied a bit and the younger a week in Austria.
Having looked at the slopes think it will be ideal for my kids to experience, so after your few lessons at chilfactore you will cope on the easier runs fine.

Not experienced such extreme temps but you will be suprised at the difference that the drier air makes to how the cold transfers. Nothing like a snowy UK.

I am on the Wirral so maybe even be there at the same time from Manchester, if so will gladly show you the ropes (i know it must be daunting if you have never been before) there are so many aspects that are alien to any other trip.

And welcome to snowheads

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Thanks for that Ian, we are leaving on Wed 14th December for 5 days, booked via Inghams. Cant wait now. Got my next day lesson at chill factor on the 10th which i hear is a lot more physically demanding than the beginners as you are in your stance virtually all day but after that we can get on the main slope there and get some practice in.
Thanks again everyone for all the helpful comments. Very glad i found this forum Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

fj2k,

What's the coldest your other half's been in? There's a world of difference between -2.6° and -12°, which is the monthly average for Levi in December. Don't be surprised if it goes down to -25°. -12° is still doable for most people, but can be hard for someone with Raynaud's phenomenon. I have a friend who suffers from the same. Protecting the hands should be fairly simple. Use mitts, not gloves and fit a woolly liner underneath. Also make sure to keep the wrists warm! This is important for anyone suffering from cold fingers. So use long mitts and liners. Also consider a merino wool base layer with long sleeves with holes which you can stick your thumb through.

Protecting the feet is harder. I have cold feet myself, so I've explored a lot of possibilities. The main problem (as I see it) is that the boots restrict the amount of clothing you can wear on your feet. I have battery-operated heated footbeds. These help, but do not expect miracles! I don't think they're standard in rental shops, but you can ask. Most probably, you can buy them in a sport shop. Bear in mind that Finland is expensive, though.

Bear in mind that frozen limbs (esp. fingers and toes) can suffer irreversible damage, so heed any early warning signs! Take regular breaks to warm up in a hut/bar/restaurant. NO ALCOHOL! Yes, it feels good and warm, but is especially bad for the blood circulation in fingers and toes. Save it for the apres.

I think Levi is pretty good for beginners, since the hills in Lapland are pretty flat. You will probably find a lot information in English and most people speak it, except some older people.

As for the temperature, Levi may not be ideal, but bear in mind what the Finns say: There is no such thing as bad weather, only improper clothes.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Ski mitts are a lot warmer than ski gloves. I'd strongly recommend mitts for your wife.

Make sure the ski boots bone dry and warm when you put them on in the morning. I'd recommend taking the inners out of the boots every evening and keeping them in your room overnight.
In very cold temperatures this can make the difference between having warn toasty feet all day and having miserable cold feet.

Same with everyone's gloves/mitts; make sure they are bone dry and warm when you put them on in the morning.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Not been to Levi, but been regularly in Canada at between -20 to -37 degC. Colds cold, wherever you are.

Agree with most of the above, and:

Choose the warmest gloves you afford, AND BUY TWO PAIRS. Alternate day to day, leaving the spare pair warming/airing in your room. Get good liners, one pair might do if you can thoroughly air them overnight. Mitts might work better (possibly three finger ones), but can be a pain, especially if boarding.

Wear multiple layers, you don't neccessarily need high end stuff as long as you have plenty of decent stuff. Couple of base layers and thin fleeces (how many TBD) work the best for me.

Cold feet is the hardest to stave of, and the only thing that ultimately works for me is to go inside and warm up, taking a hot choc or similar (sometimes with a small livener, maybe not medically correct but.....). Don't have a large midday meal, eat as early as you can before setting out in the morning, and snack as often as needed during the day, 'til you're done.

Don't ignore the signs of cold, especially frosty cheeks, normally the first place it gets you. I don't wear a mask as such, just a long homemade buff/tube: Adorn buff, put on thin thermal hat, tuck buff into back/sides of hat (so it hangs free at the front) , put on helmet. If you need to you can pull the buff up and tuck it into the lower edge of your goggles (which themselves overlap the front edge of said hat), occasional misting is unavoidable, but not that frequent, and you can just tug the buff from under the goggles if you need more ventilation, even on the move. You will need goggles regardless (likewise probably a helmet), glasses will effectively be useless, except for sitting on the bar terrace looking cool.

Air everything you're going to wear completely before dressing, in this respect radiator/heater availability in your room is as important as anything, especially if you're competing for space.

Obviously these are personal preferences that just happen to work for me, IANAD, so please bear this in mind if you happen to use any of the above, which you do at your own risk, blah, blah (certainly anyone suffering from Raynaud's ought to take qualified medical advice prior).... But hope this may be of use.

Most importantly enjoy, but the four hours of daylight would be a killer for me. Confused

n.b. At certain temperature, (around -27degC) sliding on shallow slopes becomes nigh on impossible. wink

After all it is free

BCjohnny,

ianbradders,

Now I'm going to explain how it was told to me, but not having looked it up, consider it heresay, or the ravings of a madman:

Skis & boards move along by momentarily melting the snow & gliding on the water. This process continues as you progress down the slope, with the melted snow re-freezing behind you.

With colder temps, and shallow gradients it becomes harder to achieve, initially, but once you get moving (I guess the added speed/friction) gets the melt going.

It really is unnerving, slopes you've glided the day before you, well, 'stick' to. It's worse than plastic, feels like you've got chewing gum stuck to the bottom of your board, but once underway, it's ok, unless you slow down again.

Or something like that. I honestly haven't checked, but took it as said by mountain patrol.

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Here you go:

http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/basic_mechanics/why.html

Just thought I'd check, if only to confirm the guy wasn't pulling my chain.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

fj2k,

Morning,

We too are off the Levi in December...we being me, Mrs H and two kiddies (6 and 4). I think that we are arriving on the 20th and leaving on the 23rd and will be in the Levitunturi where we stayed for our honeymoon (aaahhhh!!!)

When we went last time it was -20C...bloody cold! So cold that after about 2 minutes of sitting on my bum whilst snowboarding I had to get up as I could literally feel the warmth seeping out of me. It brought cold to a new level.... I invested in a lovely fleece neck thing which kept me snug. I got away with thermals, long sleeve top, jumper then jacket. And hot chocolate every 20 minutes or so...and lots of jumping around to warm up. The thing about the cold was that it was a damp cold (similar to what we get here in Blighty) so it seeped into you. There was lots of mist when we were there which made things very pretty but bloody freezing. On the plus side you could ski until 10pm so my plan is to get the kids to bed then get out for a few more hours.

The piste is right in front of the town and was very easy...however, if you want more of a challenge (and don't mind looking like a wally in front of other people) there was a snow park to the left of the main slopes as you look at them. Each evening we sat in a bar and watched the local nutters jumping their snow mobiles around like they were BMX bikes...amazing.

Interestingly, my wife also suffers from Raynauds but was hardly affected. She wrapped up and was fine. We had no kids then but both of mine are fairly hardy. We are getting a morning's lesson for them each via the Levi Tourist Office as we are also doing the Santa, husky dog, reindeer riding thing.

Drop me a message and let me know when you are there...would be nice to finally meet a fellow Snowheader!

snow reports

You know it makes sense.

Maybe it's not the norm but when we were there just before Xmas 5 years ago, the temperature never dropped below 0C.
Most of the time it was around +3C (according to the thermometer sign outside the Levitunturi) - warm enough to melt the snow in the car park
In the end (despite investing in some serious cold weather kit), we ended up wearing our normal ski clothes.
That said, there was plenty of snow, some good but not difficult skiing and a really good change from the normal Alpine resorts.
Weird getting used to the fact that it never got light though (it just changes from one degree of darkness to another) but the floodlights help
Worth looking at the webcams at http://www.levi.fi/en/levi-info/maps-and-cameras.html# before you go to get a better idea of the resort
By the way, our room had a big heated wardrobe where we could dry our kit every night - great idea that other ski resorts could copy

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I've been to Lapland for a week in February (and skied in Levi the last day) and it was -28C every day. Do not underestimate how cold it will/can feel as others have said.

When we got there our Finnish guide told us to make sure we ate what we were given in the hotel (make sure you eat plenty of food and drink plenty of water) and we were given thermal overalls to wear, big mitts and a balaclava if you didn't have one of your own. A lot of other Brits who flew out with us didn't take enough clothes to wear underneath their overalls and ended up having to buy more locally which obviously cost a bomb.

The skiing in Levi is very tame and flat. I wore my usual ski jacket underneath their massive overall they gave us and that was just the job.

Someone in our hotel got frostbite on their cheek whilst out one day so it is essential to protect your face and extremities well.

A snowHead

Hurdy,
I'm kind of surprised about what you said about it being damp. Lapland is usually very dry in winter, esp. when it's cold like that. A couple of years ago, there was this unusual phenomenon when the Baltic sea hadn't frozen before the first cold spells. It was very misty then, but that's exceptional.

A snowHead

I have been to lapland 5 times and have been to levi, yllas and saariselka - the slopes are tame and usually full of lovely snow, unless its early in the season and it has that horrid ice crust on it

it was usually around -10 on most occasions that we have been there but one new year is was -29 and that was biting but nothing that we could not deal with (kids too)

it really is all about prep and it is all manageable, it is certainly not damp so it never really feels as it does in the Uk when its wet and cold

from what I know, they will close the slopes if it gets below -25 or there abouts as the lifts just grind to a halt

as for gloves, I have always used my snowlife mittens with a silk liner and my hands are always toasty warm, to the extent of feeling too hot at times

www.lapland.fruitbandit.com will give you all the info you need

hope you have a wicked time

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

fj2k, As others have said, mittens are warmer than gloves. It's simple physics - with gloves each glove finger is exposed to the cold air, whereas with a mitten only the thumb finger is individually exposed, with all the other fingers being snugly side by side within the mitten.

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Thanks so much for all the advice folks. Have managed to get the mrs a spyder jacket and trousers from the usa for $160 (it is genuine as from a major retailer over there)

Only thing i cant seem to decide is mitts for her and my 6yr old daughter. The parts im more concerned about getting cold is their hands and feet so before i spend out i want to make sure i get something decent.

Can anyone post any links to mitts they would reccomend and also decent ski socks (am planning on buying silk socks and gloves as a base layer aswell). I have looked round the net as with my limited knowledge its difficult to decide so was hoping you guys could point me in the right direction. Have been told that TK MAXX has their ski ware in at the moment so if anyone can suggest good makes id appreciate it.

On a side note both myself, mrs and daughter have done our improvers course at chill factor. Mother and daughter doing great.....father not so good. I have found out that i am heavily right sided so i can turn left brillaintly however when i try to go right i just end up pointing down the slope and going down full pelt!! On the upside though all of us really enjoying it Very Happy

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

the mittens I have are by snowlife - have a look on ebay etc for them - my children have solomon and poirve blanc mittens/gloves and as long as they come up the wrists you will be fine - what i did was cut the foot off socks and used the ankle part as wrist warmers - worked a treat

as for socks, I never really bothered with thermal socks, I got mens merano wool ones from marks and spencers and wore them over my silk socks and when I couldnt be bothered with my silk socks for skiing I would just wear two pairs of the merano wool ones

as for walking about - i have some north face nepstu boots and they are toasty warm, only wore one pair of socks with them - my kids though were happy and toasty in moon boots

also, you can buy stuff when you are there so if you do find that you dont have enough its not the end of the world (but it is pricy)

you really dont need to worry too much, as long as you follow the rules of layering, dont go for bulk, go for a few layers which get bigger - we all tended to wear a silk base layer, then a termal top then a fleece followed by the outer wear - for the bottoms, I would either wear silk base or thermal base layers followed by my outer gear, I rarely had the fleece mid layer (which if you get fleece PJs from primark, they will be fine for children)

one thing to get right is the neck, face and ears protected, our children always had problems with hats and balaclavas under their helmets, complaining of them itching so do try out you have before you leave as theres nothing worse than moaning kids - also, they tend to suck on the gaiter thats around their face, this then freezes so take a spare with you

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Oooooohhhhhhh How Jealous!!!! WE have skiied in Lapland for that last 7 or so years. Been to Levi 4 times, Yllas twice and also Ruka. Love love love the place!!!! I think most people have given you pretty good advice so far. Start off with base layer (primark fleece pyjamas are excellent), Another micro fleece, maybe a thicker fleece on top then Jacket and of course Salopettes. I (and my kids) wear woolen socks (hubby is army so I wear army issue ones) and these are usually warm enough (maybe wear a thin pair underneath the woolen ones). I did always carry spare socks and gloves in the rucksack though so they could put dry ones on at luncthime. A thin balacalave that covers most of the face is essential - you can buy thin buffs which can be pulled up over nose then balaclava on top - the wind whips in around the ears and down your neck so covering these parts are important. My kids wear thin 'magic gloves' underneath their ski gloves, - I buy them in Primarni - 2 pairs for a quid - it helps keep their fingers warm and they can be changed for dry ones quickly. A good mitten or glove is important - I would recommend mittens for a 6 year old - they can then put those little hand warmers in the palms of their hand to keep them warm - most 6 year olds ski without poles so should be ok. M and M Direct do reasonably priced ski bits - but if your daughter has a condition = it might be worth paying a bit extra for mittens. A good pair of snow boots should be ok for apres ski - again, anywhere like next or Sports Direct do good snow boots around winter time. Have a look at www.levi.fi for a good website - gives all sorts of information and web cams. Where are you staying??? I so wish we were going again this year, although my kids have kind of outgrown Levi as the skiing is intermediate/beginners -its great skiing for learners and kids - if you've had lessons you should be ok - get over to Kids Land (on the bus from Zero point, past the Levi Hotel and the Gondola, then get off at the next stop.) Fab slope to start with and has a restaurant and little Kota where you can sit by a log fire and cook sausages or marshmallows. Unfortunately though, you cant take your own food into the restaurant - and the prices are a bit steep to eat - we used to take rolls etc and eat at the Kota. Any other info I can help with, I would be pleased too - have lots of photos too Very Happy

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Just over a week until we go now!! (leaving on 14th). Thanks everyone for all the advice above. We've all got thermal base layer, fleeces and good brand ski jackets/salopettes plus merino wool socks and base gloves and hestra mits so think we have covered most bases.
I have been trying to understand the snow reports but i cant make out if they are good or bad
They are saying groomed snow in Levi but it dosent seem to say anywhere if the place is actually in a good way for skiing at the moment. I dont suppose any of you guys would know if its looking good for us going in a weeks time?

After all it is free

fj2k, Link here http://www.levi.fi/en/home.html

It seems there is not much snow - but a lot can happen in a week and snow is forecast. It also looks to be quite mild (at least for Finland in December).

Your wife might want to consider these http://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/or-gear/handwear/ascent/highcamp-mitts-w-s.html which are the latest version of a pair I've been using for years. I've climbed / skied in below -40 and didn't get frostbite (unlike some of the people I was with). The new ones have integrated heat-packet pockets which mine don't have but that can only be a good thing for Reynaud's sufferers.

Actually just found them here in the UK http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Outdoor_Research_Womens_HighCamp_Mitts/?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=directory&utm_content=GBR&currency=GBP&country=GBR&SelectedBundle=175187&SelectedItem=622025

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Hi - Were going on a similar trip this year... the advice here is really useful. I do have a question regarding goggles. I think we have afternoons free on the santa trips so I suspect light will be low or under lights by the time we get out. Would people recommend clear lenses on goggles (goggles I think are a must due to the temperature?). Thanks

Help!!

Advice on Levi in December

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