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What do I need to know about snowboards?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It is all quite simple for beginners and early setups, don’t go for extremes and stick to middle of the range with everything ... get boots that fit your feet, get traditional bindings that fit your boots, get a board that fits your height, get some padded shorts - once you are comfortable, the rest is gravy Smile
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I agree with @rayscoops, IME with the children.

The only thing I would say is neither have used padded shorts or wrist guards but maybe kids are more pliable.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Imo padded shorts make sense for absolute beginners, there is a lot of falling those first few days. I get the impression ops daughter is past that stage of spending more time on her backside than on her feet, so no need for padded shorts now.

Wrist guards make little sense to me. To prevent wrist fracture you would need something pretty heavy duty going halfway up the arm locking the wrist in place (think plaster cast). I don't think 99% of the wrist guards I've seen are going to make any difference for serious injury and the science supports this (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/036354659702500215). Also if someone doesn't know better and you give them wrist guards it might encourage putting wrists out when calling - which is exactly what you are trying to stop. Better option is to teach how to fall correctly (I realise it's one thing learning it but actually being aware enough during a fall to do it is another).
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padded shorts is the only safety gear I have, helps keep my &‘rse warm too
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I will ask her about both. But given she refuses to wear waterproof trousers and only put her back protector on that I sent her to the ski performance camp with over the summer (doing Freestyle and slalom skiing AFTER the first fall that hurt her back!) I am not sure she will be interested!
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@NickyJ, we sit down a lot on the snow Wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

@NickyJ, we sit down a lot on the snow


It's certainly not mandatory! I'm not sure why some snowboarders seem to like sitting down in the snow so much.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@boarder2020, easier than standing while stopping for a chill and a chat?

Beginners and intermediates need more stops too, quite knackering if I remember correctly Smile
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
boarder2020 wrote:
Imo padded shorts make sense for absolute beginners, there is a lot of falling those first few days. I get the impression ops daughter is past that stage of spending more time on her backside than on her feet, so no need for padded shorts now.

Wrist guards make little sense to me. To prevent wrist fracture you would need something pretty heavy duty going halfway up the arm locking the wrist in place (think plaster cast). I don't think 99% of the wrist guards I've seen are going to make any difference for serious injury and the science supports this (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/036354659702500215). Also if someone doesn't know better and you give them wrist guards it might encourage putting wrists out when calling - which is exactly what you are trying to stop. Better option is to teach how to fall correctly (I realise it's one thing learning it but actually being aware enough during a fall to do it is another).


Its easy to say learn to fall right, but its impossible to do if you are wiped out or the board pops & throws you.
If she is on artificial, then I would use something to protect the palm of the hand.
Lots of wrist guards risk making the break further up arm... there again, I would rather break my arm than the scaphoid bone in my hand.

Flexmeters are good for hand & wrist protection, as they absorb & flex at the wrist, but I prefer the ones that come with level gloves.
Its really each to their own
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
boarder2020 wrote:
I would stay away from step on bindings for now. More expensive and very limiting in terms of boot options. Regular strap bindings are perfectly adequate, barely any slower to get in


DC now do boots...as for slower, can you bind while skating of a lift? I can just put my foot into my binding & off I go.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@boarder2020, +1 about the boots.
+ 1 about the bindings.

Comfort is King ( or Queen ). Even though super-squidgy may feel like carpet slippers, as mentioned before mid-flex will cover all bases.

IMHO Burtons are a squeeze for wide-footed people like me, but Northwave's fit me perfectly straight off the shelf ( or internet ).
As for boards, we have 3 sons who learnt to board and now thrash the parks and off piste. (between 40 & 60 days a season).
They get through a lot of boards. We just buy second hand or "new" old stock for a treat.

There are boards designed specifically for women, which claim to have a bit more flex, but you can get softer mens boards too, so I wouldn't get hung up on girls vs boys boards thing.

If you're buying second hand ( my recommendation ) then the board can have different flex / feel depending upon its age and how its been ridden in the past. Boards, like people get a bit more pudgy and less springy and bouncy as they age Smile

It's nice to have poppy boards for jibbing, soft boards for buttering and something stiff for the weekend, but once you get half-decent technique and feel, you can ride pretty much anything.
Try as many hire / trial boards as possible.

If she's 5'5" then something around 148-152 would seem about right.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 8-09-20 8:12; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Mr.Egg, have dc realeased the boots yet? Would be keen to try them. My feet don’t like Burton boots.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Mr.Egg, I clip in if it is quiet, know my route and not with others on the lift - not too often though for obvious reasons. Wouldn’t use this to justify a binding tbh
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@hang11, DC step on compatable should be out for this season, a few places are taking pre-orders... But there is no sign of them on DCs site and you'd expect that if this was their new to market product it'd be all over the site.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
boarder2020 wrote:
Quote:

@NickyJ, we sit down a lot on the snow


It's certainly not mandatory! I'm not sure why some snowboarders seem to like sitting down in the snow so much.


I hate sitting on the snow when I stop, not only because you get a cold butt rather that your back is upslope, you never know what danger is bearing down on you from above. I always stop facing up, standing, then if I need a rest, drop to the knees. Also easier to push up onto the toe edge, and again for visibility when rejoining the piste/flow of traffic.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As soon as I get out to resort this season I'm going to have to film a video about how to get off a lift, put on your bindings and have a rest without sitting down, going onto the knees or having to balance. It seems that so many people still don't know how to do this! Super simple skills that really save energy and cut out on faff.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@rogg, a bit ot everything really, depends if I stop behind my mates (sit) or in front (knees), normally at the sides (perched on bank) or on a flat bit (stand), long chill when someone is knackered (mostly sit) ... all depends but I tend not to spend much time kneeling because I don’t have knee pads (and my &,rse is better insulated) but nice if I have a bit of early holiday thigh burn and want to stretch it out

setting off is not problem, it’s all down hill Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Don’t think I’ve sat down on a groomer all season, but spend a fair bit of time sitting down if I’m boot packing, to strap in, have a breather etc. Always either strap in scooting off the lift or riding nutcrackers so both feet in bindings for the way up anyway.

Keen to have a try of the step ons though, more to see how they ride as opposed to convenience.
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Quote:

DC now do boots...as for slower, can you bind while skating of a lift? I can just put my foot into my binding & off I go.


Still waiting to see what DC are going to offer. I just don't see the point of buying bindings that are more expensive and limit you in terms of boots so much. Yes actually I can put on a normal binding while skating off a chair, it's not an advanced skill! I just don't really see step one as a great time saver, even with regular bindings once semi-proficient you should be able to easily strap in less than 10secs when getting off a chair.

Quote:

Keen to have a try of the step ons though, more to see how they ride as opposed to convenience.


Have a few friends that have demoed them. All said they perform like regular bindings in terms of riding.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@boarder2020, @hang11,

DC Control & DC Lotus (male & female) are the 1st offerings.
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No stock anywhere yet on DC (not even through DC) but people are taking pre-orders. Looks like the step-on will be about the £300 mark, the regular boot is about £230-40 range, so a £60 premium.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
So 1 middle of the range DC boot, or Burton boots. To me that's a very limited choice. All at an extra cost, no performance benefit, and probably going to save you at most a couple of minutes per day.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
boarder2020 wrote:
So 1 middle of the range DC boot, or Burton boots. To me that's a very limited choice. All at an extra cost, no performance benefit, and probably going to save you at most a couple of minutes per day.


Have you tried step ons?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The new step ons are a completely different animal to the ones from days of yore (which I actually quite liked).
The new ones have a proper high-back, and are not as prone to getting ice in the locking mechanism.
So in these respects they are great - however, for a boots & binding setup your'e looking at the thick end of 700 euros, whereas you could get some normal boots and bindings for around 300.
IMHO 700 bucks is a lot to spend on fixing a problem that doesn't exist.
I'd rather spend the extra cash on tuition .............. or beer.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
No, I have plenty of friends that demoed them and one that rides them full time. As I said above everyone I know that used them said performance is just like regular bindings. I'm not criticising them for performance (although none of the pro riders seem to be using them which maybe suggests something). There are some clear downsides:
- cost. Right now I can get a pair of Burton cartels or malavitas for around £100 less. Same is true for boots, the non step on version of the same boots are £100+ less.
- flexibility. Right now they only make 1 step on binding so you are stuck with that as opposed to being able to select a binding stiffness that suits your own riding. Also afaik there is no possibility to alter heel cup or highback rotation of the step ons.
- boot range. Right now you are limited to Burton boots (afaik choice is 4 men's boots and 2 women's boots) or 1 single pair of DC boots. It's extremely limited, if Burton boots don't work for your feet you only have 1 option.

And the pros:
- quicker. Yep I believe they are quicker, as a semi-proficient rider you can maybe save 2-3mins a day. Probably make more difference for beginners.

Does saving a couple of mins per day outweigh the negatives? Not for me. I would like to try them just for the novelty, but binding straps are just not something I consider a problem.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@boarder2020,

you should give them a try.
Maybe skiers used to have the same arguments over strapping in skis & stepping into a binding Very Happy
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Mr.Egg like I say strapping in is a non issue to me. I can usually do it while riding, and even if I have to stop it takes less than 10 seconds. If you have the money and they work for you that's great, but I think there are too many downsides right now to advise people to pick them over regular bindings.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Mr.Egg, I used Flow bindings for quite a while (surgery on my spine meant it was a bit easier to use Flows) and it was similarly easy to get the binding on, but only on a flat area where you could just ride away. Quite regularly I would pop my foot in on the flat and would be ready to shush off just as a big group of skiers or boarders would get off the lift and decide to stop on the flat in front of me.

The thing I like about strapping in is that it is easy to do on the flat when there isn’t a crowd and similarly easy to do where there is a bit of a slope where skiers and boarders don’t gather.

I like the flexibility.

Ultimately it seems the step on bindings are quite good but expensive and limited in choice with respect to boot & binding ... maybe we will all move on to them when they are cheaper and more of a choice
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks all, I really appreciate the debate it very much helps me Happy

I am hoping the latest change In rules won’t the nail in the coffin for Oktobertest.

Even if it is I am tempted to keep our hotel booking just book a normal recreational session at Hemel, so that Ellie can have her first session on snow with a board.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@NickyJ, it all sounds so confusing but if your daughter sticks to the mainstream technology and just gets a setup that is correctly sized she will be fine.

My board is an Asymmetric Twin with deeper heelside edge, Magne Traction sidecut and a hybrid Rocker/Camber profile ... which would be irrelevant to her Wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
What’s everyone’s thoughts on wearing helmets Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
... popcorn on order Wink

I don’t wear one, but happy for others who do want to wear one Smile
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'm happy for @rayscoops, not to wear one, but only if he wears a jester hat circa 1995 instead.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Richard_Sideways, on our silly hat day, I normally just wear a helmet Wink
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rayscoops wrote:
My board is an Asymmetric Twin with deeper heelside edge, Magne Traction sidecut and a hybrid Rocker/Camber profile ... which would be irrelevant to her Wink

That's gotta be made up surely!?

I am off to google it - wish me luck wink
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You'll need to Register first of course.
@Layne, GNU Riders Choice Wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Layne wrote:
rayscoops wrote:
My board is an Asymmetric Twin with deeper heelside edge, Magne Traction sidecut and a hybrid Rocker/Camber profile ... which would be irrelevant to her Wink

That's gotta be made up surely!?


I think it's a technology for people with one leg longer than the other to stop them going round in circles.
You can apply Swix snake-oil to the base to help compress bumps too Smile
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I know what the pixie dust stuff is, but what does the deeper heelside edge do? Or is WoC correct and its some kind of custom onboard orthotic corrective?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
rayscoops wrote:
@Layne, GNU Riders Choice Wink

From the company website:
Quote:
From design to performance our riders had a heavy hand on this one. Asymmetry, slightly wider waist widths that rail, float and poppy stable C2 hybrid contours that slide, carve and plane. An unreal eco construction that is built to blast and last. It’s quite possibly the best board we have ever made.

•A board for riders by our riders
•Unlock freestyle unreality in the park, pow and groomers
•Asym reduces fatigue and maximizes performance

That is top Marketing BS right there. I know - they all do it.

I especially love "An unreal eco construction" WTF?

And what are "C2 hybrid contours" for heavens sake.

Going to the Technology tab I see that they have "Serrated Steak Knife Technology" - come on, you are telling me your edges are like steak knifes!!?? I hope they are sharper than the standard one's in a French ski apartment Laughing Laughing
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Richard_Sideways, it’s a twin tip so the bindings are set centrally and I believe it gives and longer effective edge on the heel side than the toe side, where perhaps you lose a bit of edge bite with the central position of the binding.

Basically if you ride switch a lot you don’t lose heel side edge control in they way you do on a directional board

I think Smile
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