Poster: A snowHead
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No thanks. I’ve never seen anyone not take their skis off and walk up or at least side step up the last bit from the left hand path at the bottom of Mont Fort. And that is some pretty significant poling from Chaux. I did it once by accident, on my first visit, thinking it was a piste. Never made that mistake again. I don’t count that as a single descent.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rdk, I'd pick whichever is logistically easier/cheaper; I don't think there's any right answer at all. They're both great resorts with a lot of ground to cover. BobinCH makes a good point about ease of access to Geneva from Verbier/Chamonix.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@rdk, Hi there. I am a part-time resident of Zermatt (well, less so this year obviously) and have a friend who has a place in the Verbier area (Nendaz). So I am frequent skier in both areas and absolutely love both areas. I prefer touring/off-piste/itineraries but am very happy skiing with friends for days on end on pistes.
I need to say this very quietly as it is sacrilegious (I might be barred from entering Valais/Wallis ever again) but: the two areas are really very similar. That is not too surprising. Geographically they are very close: the Zermatt-Cervinia ski area runs north to south; if you pivoted it 45 degrees clockwise it would actually be connected up to the Verbier ski area. They are both high and sitting on the south side of the Rhône valley. They are aiming for similar clientele and in skiing terms tend to be better for non-beginners (i.e. most decent pistes are red and up). While they can argue amongst themselves for ever, there is a strong case that they are the two premier Swiss ski resorts. So they are in direct competition with each other and one can never let one get too large a lead in any particular area. You don’t need to compare them to, for example, North America, to see the similarities, you can compare them to the Arlberg or the Dolomites (both of which I love but are distinctly different).
Therefore, I would definitely say that if you have already done Zermatt you should do Verbier. I would say the opposite if you had already done Verbier. It might be that you will then have a preference for one over the other (as many do) but hopefully you will appreciate what both have to offer.
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@JohnMo - that's exactly the sort of advice I was after. Thanks so much for replying.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Nickski wrote: |
Personally, for a piste skier, I’d say Zermatt. Lot’s of high mountain piste skiing, especially if you go over to Cervinia too.
Verbier, especially if you’re trying to avoid the itineraries, isn’t brilliantly connected. You have to be able to ski the itineraries to appreciate Verbier (4vallees) . Purely for skiing Siviez is the best base.
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Thanks - looking at the piste map it does seem that a lot of the runs over towards Siviez/Tortin are itineraries, but I know looking at a map and being there are different things.
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@rdk, I skied both in the 90's, Zermatt was great but hard to get to and at the time I felt from memory was a disjointed ski area with large queues (probably sorted now) and I remember little apart from smashing my knee on the Triftjy Bumps. Verbier i'd say is an exceptional ski area, rivalling Arlberg and EK in Europe in my view somewhere i'd be keen to go back to, skied there probably 8x in the late 90's/ early 00's and i'd love to go back and now do it more off-piste justice. So imo if you've skied in Zermatt i'd go to Verbier - fly into GVA and train to Martigny. Take plenty cash though, both are megabucks.
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@Markymark29, I think @JohnMo, has given the OP the definitive response, but just so you know, Zermatt’s connectivity problems are a thing of the past.
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@rdk, if you can ski moguls competently then you will be able to ski the two most important ‘link’ itineraries: Gentiane and Chassoure. They’re linked by pisted paths and are heavily skied so effectively like long mogul runs and you can’t really get lost. Just follow everyone else.
The other itineraries are very much optional, personally Vallon d’Arbi is a favourite, much less travelled, more of an adventure and better than getting the bus over to Savoleyres.
So, with that caveat (provided you can ski moguls reasonably) I think I’m going to contradict myself, if you’ve already done Zermatt, try Verbier (which is also a funky town but save up your pennies).
And it is a long old schlep too Thyon. I stay in Siviez and I only do it once or twice a season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nickski wrote: |
@rdk, if you can ski moguls competently then you will be able to ski the two most important ‘link’ itineraries: Gentiane and Chassoure. They’re linked by pisted paths and are heavily skied so effectively like long mogul runs and you can’t really get lost. Just follow everyone else.
The other itineraries are very much optional, personally Vallon d’Arbi is a favourite, much less travelled, more of an adventure and better than getting the bus over to Savoleyres.
So, with that caveat (provided you can ski moguls reasonably) I think I’m going to contradict myself, if you’ve already done Zermatt, try Verbier (which is also a funky town but save up your pennies).
And it is a long old schlep too Thyon. I stay in Siviez and I only do it once or twice a season. |
Best way to ski the 4 valleys is to do the Etygeon itinerary and then ski back from Les Masses. By piste it is a major ball ache and to be avoided unless you have a strange fetish for drag lifts. Plan de Fou in Nendaz on the other hand is definitely worth the effort - my favorite piste in 4 valleys. Piste de l’ours in Veysonnaz also great but a schlepp to get to and needs good snow low down to avoid the dreaded artificial ice rink... But for lift served off piste And a bit of adrenaline nowhere beats the trifecta of Mont Fort, Mont Gelé and Attelas.
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@JohnMo, @DCG, @rdk,
Saying that Zermatt and Verbier are very similar to me is a -rather blunt- display of barbarism...
And this is not about preferences. They are just so different on so many aspects.
Just the two words Zermatt and Verbier, their spelling and sound show two different worlds....and that’s just the start...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rdk, L’Eteygeon is not for you. It’s off-piste, not travelled that much and ends up at a bus stop, by the side of a road, in the middle of nowhere.
You (probably) want to avoid Plan du Fou too or at least have a damn good look at it before committing.
It actually only requires one T-bar after Greppon to get to Thyon but a lot of path skiing. Getting back is the bigger pain.
Piste de L’ours is as described by Bob. Nice restaurant near the bottom on the right too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nickski wrote: |
@rdk, L’Eteygeon is not for you. It’s off-piste, not travelled that much and ends up at a bus stop, by the side of a road, in the middle of nowhere.
You (probably) want to avoid Plan du Fou too or at least have a damn good look at it before committing.
It actually only requires one T-bar after Greppon to get to Thyon but a lot of path skiing. Getting back is the bigger pain.
Piste de L’ours is as described by Bob. Nice restaurant near the bottom on the right too. |
I think since they've put in the new lift to Plan du Fou they've created a piste that is fine now ( A lot easier than Chassoure in thin conditions anyway)
Also think on the few times I've done L'Etygeon its easier than the runs down to Tortin but checking the bus times is advisable.
Depending on what the OP wants Nendaz may be a good option to ski the area the connecting lifts are now good and the views over the Rhone valley are superior to Verbiers in my view. Nightlife is not the same though.
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Nope, they (still) only piste Plan du Fou from half way down, it’s still a formidable run and it’s generally the first of the major itineraries they close.
Connection in from Nendaz is much improved, though a lot of people still get the bus round. And on the way back you’ve still got the old, slow (when it’s going) fixed grip 4-seater.
If you’re coming from the other side of the world, you really should stay in /experience Verbier, though Nendaz is nothing like as expensive.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Nickski, Interesting last time I skied it I could have sworn there was a reddish piste going round to the East.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Plan du fou piste is a red, ends at Siviez. That’s what I’m referring to as favourite piste. The black in the other direction is an itinerary, which is steep and icy at the top. Etygeon itinerary is remote but well skied in the season and easy compared to Tortin or Mont Gèle. I’ve taken many guests there and all have enjoyed the sense of adventure and travel.
Only thing cheaper in Nendaz is accommodation, lift pass, supermarkets, restaurants are the same
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Poster: A snowHead
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@T Bar, aah, the red down to Siviez. Yeah, that’s fine. That’s always been pisted.
I was talking about the itinerary run the other side.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 23-08-20 13:49; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Nickski, No, sorry not explaining it well, there was a reddish run skirting round to the right of the main Plan De fou itinerary.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@T Bar, the path in is pisted and the bottom half, which is still very steep, is pisted. I’ve never seen a way to avoid the steep, mogul section after the path in though.
@BobinCH, personally I find that slope has a lot of people skiing too fast and right on the edge (or beyond) of their ability. I probably prefer it later in the day when it gets bumpy. Slows down the loonies.
Unless it’s a powder day, then it’s off down Siviez fields ! Lovely benign off-piste. In 10 years or so I’ve never seen a proper slide there. A few 5-10m slides right at the top but never anything below.
Favourite piste. Hmmm, probably Piste D’Lours but as you said, it’s very rarely in good condition all the way down and it’s a pain to get to/from. I like the middle section going down from Gentiane to Chaux too. Time it right and you more or less get it to yourself. Can absolutely hoon some big turns down there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Used to love Zermatt when I went to that neck of the woods - and I preferred it to Verbier for the whole holiday experience. Zermatt also has the Gornergrat barn - which has to be the most delightful ski lift in Europe. It’s quite a while ago, but I’d say Verbier had better on piste skiing (not that Zermatt’s is to be sneezed at) - and livelier Après.
Take out a second mortgage to fund your trip, and have fun.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agree Lech/Zurs and the oft forgotten Warth... part of the same Arlberg liftpass.. are better pistes than St Anton but with the connecting gondola you can easily get over there from St Anton within little more than an hour [actually only 3 lifts needed]. Key is your location within St Anton needs to be close to the Galzigbahn for optimal morning set-off and evening stagger home if using the apres facilities on the home run.
You can't lose with Verbier v Zermatt...... so maybe Verbier if you want to try something new.
Flights out of geneva not so good as those out of Zurich if trying Cham!
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Nickski wrote: |
@T Bar, the path in is pisted and the bottom half, which is still very steep, is pisted. I’ve never seen a way to avoid the steep, mogul section after the path in though.
@BobinCH, personally I find that slope has a lot of people skiing too fast and right on the edge (or beyond) of their ability. I probably prefer it later in the day when it gets bumpy. Slows down the loonies.
Unless it’s a powder day, then it’s off down Siviez fields ! Lovely benign off-piste. In 10 years or so I’ve never seen a proper slide there. A few 5-10m slides right at the top but never anything below.
Favourite piste. Hmmm, probably Piste D’Lours but as you said, it’s very rarely in good condition all the way down and it’s a pain to get to/from. I like the middle section going down from Gentiane to Chaux too. Time it right and you more or less get it to yourself. Can absolutely hoon some big turns down there. |
The black/(ex?)itinerary was pisted from the top when I skied it last year but it was rock hard and caution required. The red, on the other hand, has handy flatter bits at all the right spots ie when you are right on the hooning down it after the juniors. Particularly the bottom gets the sun so you need to hit it early in Spring but it is one of those runs that you can really let loose on.
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You can hit the red anytime and it’s just the last steep option that doesn’t hold snow very well but you can always ski out via the path. In a strange way I quite like the ‘shortcut’ when it’s like glass, which is most of the time. Have to treat it with respect and it’s hilarious to see what happens to those who don’t.
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Thanks for all your advice, and lots of thinking to do before Jan 2022.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@rdk, if you do choose 4vallees (Verbier or Nendaz) resurrect this thread. I'd meet up and give you a tour if I'm out at the same time.
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