March 2020: The Telegraph announced that both its ski show at Battersea Park (which dated back to the early 1970s at various venues, under Daily Mail ownership) ... and its magazine 'Ski and Snowboard' ... had bitten the dust. That seemed to bring to a conclusion major national media's commercial involvement in skiing ... after approximately 50 years.
29 May 2020: Organisers of a new show (the same people behind the InTheSnow magazine and website) - the London Ski Show - announced their event would take place at the Snow Centre in Hemel Hempstead (26 miles north of London) on 25-28 September.
From what I understand, the organisers of WLSS are now very busy signing up 'standholders' and other participants ... by the end of this month ... for an event that is now roughly 10 weeks away.
[that concludes the world's largest posting on snowHeads]
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Well that was interesting:
- The World's Largest Viewership of a snowHeads posting (303 views) since the above was posted last Wednesday.
- The World's Largest Zero in terms of response postings.
Checking other snocial media activity over the past week:
Facebook, searching "World's Largest Ski Show" / WLSS : https://www.facebook.com/wlsshow
Nothing I can see. Last official posting: 19 July
Twitter, searching the designated hashtag #WLSS: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WLSS&src=hashtag_click
I'm a dunce regarding hashtags, but my attempt delivered results for 'Weight Loss Secrets'.
Last official tweet for World's Largest Ski Show appears to be 11 June. Did I get that wrong?
A bit of background regarding the main player in this venture, Dominic Killinger. Dominic's debut in ski media seems to be traceable to an appearance on the BBC's 'Dragon's Den', concerning some tech he developed for wi-fi for marina users:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jan/11/btgroupbusiness
So, according to that Guardian piece, Dominic has published InTheSnow magazine since Feb 2008.
[That concludes The World's Largest Update]
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
If the organisers could put together a package where 'entry' / ticket purchase could convey a myriad of financial discounts and experiential opportunities from the exhibitors then they could do very, very well.
@Mike Pow, I think the Ski Club are doing an absolutely spiffing job of putting paid to themselves, but I know what you mean.
For me a ski show has always been about getting some ski atmosphere on a dreary autumn day in London, but mainly to meet up with a few mates and enjoy a few alpine-themed libations. This is all going to be somewhat difficult over Zoom or whatever techno solution they are using. I don't think many will tune in and, if they do, how long are they likely to hang around realistically? As they say on Dragons' Den, and Mr Killinger will understand this - "I'm out"
I've never been to a ski show. But I have been to wedding and baby shows at those particular periods in my life. Surely the point of the ski show is to immerse yourself in that world for the day, poke at new products and pick up some discounted equipment?
Zoom (other video conferencing systems are available) has been brilliant over this period in some respects (my son had his drum lesson in the comfort of his own room today, and has done weekly since April), but I just don't see how it'll work for something like this.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I have visited the show the last couple of years just cause it's nice to feel winter is coming again and have a day out in London but can't really say it's great. Nothing big on discounts, I think North Face was doing a fairly decent discount for the new fabric last year, but 20% off a £500 ski pant doesn't really make it viable for most people I guess.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Perhaps displaying my old fart credentials but I really don't get this. I get why the organisers are desperate to sell it as brilliant but it's hard to see what's in it for me as a consumer - some video chats with a few businesses, a couple of discount codes and the most tragic thing a dj aftershow set. All of which they can reach me directly with if they choose.
And somewhere in the vid Killinger drops the most horrendous bollock by saying the show isn't intending to address COVID as customers are already aware and too much talking about it will put people off booking. What people want is comfort that they just aren't punting money on a random hope so to address that the holiday industry of course has to get into granular detail and guarantees. So it comes across as disengenuous snake oil....
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Anyone who self-describes as an "entrepreneur" is going to be in the snake oil business.
It's a brave soul who'd be dabbling in this sort of media though - many have exited the market and it's
hard to see what this chap's doing differently from them. The accounts would likely
tell an interesting story should anyone bother to download them. Maybe it's just a "lifestyle" business.
I wasn't aware of "in the snow", but it looks quite shiny, much better than
the SCGB's, and boasts significantly fewer staff. Perhaps he can sell it to them for an outrageous amount.
It does read a bit like breathless hype: "Leading Ski Operator Reports 125% Jump In Bookings"
- when comparing pre and post lockdown metrics and without providing the actual numbers
I can't immediately find anything which discusses how well that specific Tour Operator did
in terms of refunds during the 1st wave, which is perhaps indicative
of an advertising based business model.
Maybe in 1970 people needed this sort of thing to tell them what a ski resort was and
which way to put their skis on, but these days I think everyone's a bit more savvy. The main issues
are things like health, insurance, cancellations, refunds, and travel hassle, none of which you're
really in a good place to tackle if you're running a traditional advertising business model.
So yeah, I guess they're doing their best to promote their package tour advertisers...
whose interests aren't necessarily the same as those of consumers. Which is why people are
here not there.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Priced correctly
Access to live presentations / talks / demos / Q&A
Access to Adventure Sports movies
Opportunity to 'chat' with people in the industry
Discount codes
Show only specials
I'd pay the usual £15-20 for that
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike Pow wrote:
Priced correctly
Access to live presentations / talks / demos / Q&A
Access to Adventure Sports movies
Opportunity to 'chat' with people in the industry
Discount codes
Show only specials
I'd pay the usual £15-20 for that
I'd be assuming that they aren't planning on charging punters for access to the "show". If they are it's even more embarassing. I get Red Bull TV for free, can pay a pittance for a month of netflix and if I'm prepared to google a bit can find any number of "ski industry experts" pontificating on Youtube for free. If there is any chat needed I can call a company directly.
I recently attanded a Zoom presentation by a single business as soon after the main session as they sorted attendees into breakout rooms it was frankly embarassing as no one really had anything they wanted to ask about and seemed to be making up questions for the sake of good manners.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
That's more like it - the 5 opening days of this thread were The World's Largest Nothing: alone, friendless, 300+ people viewing but no one communicating.
So, thanks to Mike Pow, Pruman, Markymark 29, Owlette, Gustavobs and Davina of the Marmottes for entering The World's Largest Phone Kiosk.
Joking aside I've marked my diary for 1 Oct and will be queuing at the entrance in my anorak and bobble hat, armed with an egg sandwich for lunch and a carrier bag for collecting brochures.
See you there.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Mike Pow wrote:
Priced correctly
Access to live presentations / talks / demos / Q&A
Access to Adventure Sports movies
Opportunity to 'chat' with people in the industry
Discount codes
Show only specials
I'd pay the usual £15-20 for that
I'd be assuming that they aren't planning on charging punters for access to the "show". If they are it's even more embarassing. I get Red Bull TV for free, can pay a pittance for a month of netflix and if I'm prepared to google a bit can find any number of "ski industry experts" pontificating on Youtube for free. If there is any chat needed I can call a company directly.
I recently attanded a Zoom presentation by a single business as soon after the main session as they sorted attendees into breakout rooms it was frankly embarassing as no one really had anything they wanted to ask about and seemed to be making up questions for the sake of good manners.
Well this is where they have to show innovation. Both the organisers and the exhibitors.
If you didn't go to the 'real world' event, then you're unlikely to visit the 'virtual' show.
I've watched presentations via Zoom and similar for free since Lockdown and I've paid for talks/presentaions.
For example I paid £30 for a 5 bottle (20ml each) pack of Penderyn Whiskey to have a virtual tasting session with the MD.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Mike Pow wrote:
Well this is where they have to show innovation. Both the organisers and the exhibitors.
If you didn't go to the 'real world' event, then you're unlikely to visit the 'virtual' show.
I've watched presentations via Zoom and similar for free since Lockdown and I've paid for talks/presentaions.
For example I paid £30 for a 5 bottle (20ml each) pack of Penderyn Whiskey to have a virtual tasting session with the MD.
I agree innovation is crucial but I'm not entirely sure what that consists of - there's a gap between a dry lecture made worse because of the alternate distractions of clicking elsewhere on your browser while the presenter drones on and a Joe Wicks/Cham Wow style overpumped kids TV presenter but its not easy to hit that gap for everyone.
Arguably a virtual event could have larger audience because for me one of the factors with the real world show became could I be bothered travelling there for a sub par experience. But put a price of admission on it and I'm out.
Your whiskey tasting is a good example of something niche that might work (though better at 200ml each ) but I'm not going to bother emailing in in advance to get posted a tiny shot of nasty toffee vodka so I can enjoy the "show experience" of free booze, likewise all the useful promo freebies like lipsalves, ski ties etc
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
For me the main benefit of a show would be getting hands on the products and trying on things to test for/sizing. The virtual show loses this and I can't see it offering anything particularly unique. As said already there are countless free online articles reviewing kit and I have more faith in independent reviewers than hearing a companies presentation/sales pitch (which are also online anyway).
Quote:
For example I paid £30 for a 5 bottle (20ml each) pack of Penderyn Whiskey to have a virtual tasting session with the MD.
It works because you have the product in person. Try the same thing without the actual tasting and just someone talking and it's rather pointless and much more comparable to the virtual ski show idea
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I've watched presentations via Zoom and similar for free since Lockdown and I've paid for talks/presentaions.
What kind of presentations are you hoping to get at a virtual ski show though? While it's mildly interesting hearing about new technology, it's hard to put any faith in what is clearly a bias presentation by a company aimed at increasing sales. Let's be honest "it's basically the same as last year's model but with different colours" would be a more accurate description most of the time.
Someone like Cody Townsend doing a presentation on his 50 project, decision making in avalanche terrain, gear choices (although I accept some bias due to sponsorships) etc. would interest me much more. However it's exactly the kind of content that is already widely available free online.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Let's see what they can put together.
As I've stated countless times in threads about ski shows, I always received far more from attending the ski show than I paid for the cost of admission.
That's why I went.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gustavobs wrote:
I have visited the show the last couple of years just cause it's nice to feel winter is coming again and have a day out in London but can't really say it's great. Nothing big on discounts, I think North Face was doing a fairly decent discount for the new fabric last year, but 20% off a £500 ski pant doesn't really make it viable for most people I guess.
I agree completely with this. The times I've attended baby and wedding shows, I've never found things to be discounted enough to buy. I found that the exhibitors tended to be fairly high priced in the first place, meaning that any discount just makes a very expensive product slightly less expensive.
The shows were good for being able to look at the products in person, before inevitably finding them cheaper online when I got home.
NB. News updates to this thread will henceforth be transmitted from The World's Largest Shower Cubicle (obviously I've turned off the water), beginning with ...
Something of a publicity coup for the organisers ... from across the pond and east-west landmass!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Interesting comments. AFAIK it will be free to the public to 'attend'
No 1 thing for any ski show to address will be COVID. No 2 will be the contagion of TO, chalet operator failure etc and financial guarantees for the public. At this stage it literally does not matter what nice guys they are, the quality of the experience they seek to provide guests, how many years they've been in business, how many satisfied customers. It's simply about depth of pockets, resilience and client safeguarding measures.
Without that Killinger's happy clappy get people stoked is just theatrics while Rome burns.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
How can they address covid though? At best they can present scenarios which may or may not happen. We could have a vaccine or a full blown second wave by then. There seems to be too much uncertainty.
After all it is free
After all it is free
boarder2020 wrote:
How can they address covid though? At best they can present scenarios which may or may not happen. We could have a vaccine or a full blown second wave by then. There seems to be too much uncertainty.
They can talk specifically about what resorts and TOs plans are for operations in a variety of COVID scenarios. E.g. a resort presenting could say
- These are our COVID measures
- Restrictions on chair/gondi/bin capacity
- This is how we will limit capacity on the hill to space out people - these are the consequences for your lift passes e.g. Season pass 8am and week pass holders 9am first. Day tickets only available after 11am if capacity not reached.
- This is how indoor restaurants etc will operate and be restricted
- These are the limitations on apres venues
- This is how we will refund if we have closures/part closures
TOs can be granular about evac/repat planning and their own guarantees re COVID cancellations. They also IMV need to be very reassuring/transparent about how they ringfence client funds for possible refunds and their cash reserves/financial viability.
Don't you want that sort of information if you are going to commit to something financially now? It's kinda critical for many. If no apres is a dealbreaker surely resorts don't want to entice customers on promises of apres which they are in no position to deliver etc etc.
I fear there is going to be too much of a "rah rah rah come here we're brill and of course we'll be COVID compliant" with no detail on what that means if you don't hold people to account
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@boarder2020, that's exactly it - how do Tour Ops and chalet Ops address that uncertainty to allow people to book with enough confidence that they are willing to put hand in pocket to get a season started.
2021 season will the the year of the small print, and those who will do best will have the small print written very large, and spell out clearly what people are risking when booking and what will and won't be repayed should the worst happen.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Richard_Sideways, More accurately there will be 3 camps
- Take COVID and customer concerns seriously and address them honestly, clearly and fairly
- Same as it ever was, pay lipservice to COVID and make it up on the fly
- Can't be bothered with the first , too much like hard work, price it cheap enough and there will always be some mug punters
2nd and 3rd camps might survive but I wouldn't bet on the rate.
@iainm - you work with a lot of resorts and TOs - how advanced are they in their thinking on all this? They are rapidly approaching selling season.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Drifting somewhat from someone's marketing idea...
I can't see a reason for customers to to take risks on this. If the customer holds the money when the music stops, the only risks are that stuff gets wildly more expensive,
or that things get full. Worst case you don't get away. If a tour operator holds your money, then worst case you don't get away and don't get your money back.
Businesses which require advance cash-flow most be in serious trouble. If people don't pay up front they're done, and they're also in trouble
if people do pay upfront and then get cancelled out. A sea of troubles.
(wait for it...)
I'd guess your best shot would be to cut your burn rate as quickly as possible, for example replacing a full-blown "ski show" with a lame podcast.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@philwig, Yup in this situation customers are best holding tight onto their funds until the last possible moment.
Which means IMV that TOs who want to be in business need to cover their overheads from their own reserves not cashflow until holidays are delivered (which would always be prudent accounting but prudence and the travel industry are rare bedfellows). Guess that doesn't leave many
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Yes I understand, but what measures they have in place right now could change drastically. Depending on infection rates and new information becoming available things will keep changing. You also have to accept resorts and TOs are at the mercy of whatever government regulations are bought in (for example the Spain quarantine). Other than the assurance you will get a full refund if the trip is cancelled due to covid i don't know what else could be guaranteed right now and I'd be taking it all with a pinch of salt.
Personally I am not booking anything for this season for this exact reason. I will wait and see what actually happens and then consider something last minute.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@boarder2020, I think my argument is that if they can't tell you convincingly what things will look like if infection rates stay low and they get a decent number of winter tourists, then it really isn't worth contemplating that resort because they'll be FUBARed as soon as the slightest thing goes sideways. Yeah likely Govts/regions will shut then down so they can't offer guarantees on staying open but they can "do the right thing" like confirming tourists can't be summarily turfed out of their accomodation on testing positive, contingency plans for resort evacs, describe protocols that will come into play for outbreaks etc. I'm sure these are conversations being had between mairies, hotels, lift cos and tourist offices but they need to communicate them.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I guess my point is that even if they told me all that stuff I wouldn't have much faith any of it stays the same between now and then.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
boarder2020 wrote:
I guess my point is that even if they told me all that stuff I wouldn't have much faith any of it stays the same between now and then.
It's not about it staying the same it's about them demonstrating that they have acceptable plans and won't leave you in the lurch.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Wondering what had happened to this but Planetski, in an article on next year's B'ham Ski Show ( believe that when it happens too), confirmed this had died a silent death.
No great surprise there then. Cove kinda sums up the great ski show problem of our age
I know a lot of people criticised the London ski show for what it had become in recent years, but I never saw the previous incarnations and always enjoyed a day out in London every October, as a warmup to the ski season and a chance to get some inspiration for upcoming holidays. I think the UK is poorer without a ski show, but it could be so much more.
The organisers of next years Snow Show in Birmingham are currently giving away free tickets to try to drum up support. Hopefully it will take off and the current Covid situation will have eased enough to make it work by then.
I'm slightly less keen on a day trip to Birmingham than to London as it's more of a pain to get to for me, but I will still give it a go. After all, what's not to like about free tickets...
At my ideal ski show, snowHeads would run an apres-ski bar/lounge area to give a bit of a social gathering pre-season and generally provide some much needed 'atmosphere' to the rest of the show. I believe @Admin has a bit of previous for this sort of thing? Any takers?
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 24-10-20 17:23; edited 1 time in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Critical_Al, where did you see the free tickets? I can't see any mention of them on the site (unless you are a kiddie).
I'd love to see a show here in Birmingham - much easier for me
Edit: sorted - got the code off facebook. Thanks for the heads up!
Sorry, there was a page somewhere on the site that gave the code 'LAUNCH' which gives access to the free tickets, but I can't now find it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
There was a discount code for free tickets. LAUNCH
I think it was only valid during the week but give it a go.
We’ll certainly give it a try next year. NEC is very easy to get to and should get us in the mood for the season and hopefully some inspiration on future locations as well.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I think if you try to buy tickets using the code launch you get to a concession page with a weekend ticket price of £0.00
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Critical_Al, thanks for the share - just used the code LAUNCH and got a bunch of free tickets - likely won't make the drive up from London but best to have them in the bag and will always offer them to other snow heads closer to the time. They also wanted an email address for each attendee for Track and Trace - what a pain!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
