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Pronunciation of ski resorts

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hurtle wrote:
@RobinS, Anyone know how to pronounce the Swiss place Château d'Œx? I haven't got a clue.


It's "Doh!". Homer Simpson stylee Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I've got a mate who regularly visits the Alps on cycling trips. He tells us all the climbs they've bone and where they stayed... but it's remains a mystery where he's been as his pronunciations are so bad.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Golly - I missed all that! Turn your back for a moment and the pedants emerge from their lockdown hiding places. I shall just add that there certainly are (pace Whitegold) French people who ski in Shamoneecks.
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Though possibly some of them are Belgians.....
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Asterix and Obelix certainly had their “x’s” pronounced, so why not Chamonix?
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It really hurts my ears to hear people say Lez Gets.....Orange200 is correct with 'Ley Jay' of course

As for Avoriaz.... generally only the foreigners pronounce the z, which is perfectly fine, but my kid informs me with 100% confidence that it's called Avoria locally
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
'Mirabel' is always irritating.

@polo,
Quote:

As for Avoriaz.... generally only the foreigners pronounce the z, which is perfectly fine, but my kid informs me with 100% confidence that it's called Avoria locally


I agree. Nobody in their right mind would start talking about Les Carozzz, so why would the final 'z' of Avoriaz be pronounced?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Le Grand Bornand Le grand bor-non


That's OK as long you aren't pronouncing the 'd' in 'Grand'. I'd write it as 'Le Gron Bor-non'


Quote:
Valmeinier Val-men-e-a


No, I don't think so. It should be more like 'Val-men-yeay' and should not rhyme with California.

Quote:
Serre Chevalier Sair Chev-al-ee-ayz

Don't agree with the final 'z'
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@foxtrotzulu, yep, those crazy people with their funny accents......it's a bit of a moot point in any case because if you weren't brought up here it's very hard to get the accent right. Even with the knowledge that the z is not pronounced in les Carroz, you need special tongue and throat acrobatics to pronounce the 'Carr' part correctly. You can tell immediately if someone is native or not.

I am not, and despite owning a place here, it has not made any difference to my hideous french accent. Especially when you are cold on the top of the mountain and try to simply ask for "un verre de vin rouge"....nothing resembling french seems to come out.
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Are you talking about the language, or what they pour you? Wink
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Orange200 wrote:
Are you talking about the language, or what they pour you? Wink
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@polo,
Quote:

it's a bit of a moot point in any case because if you weren't brought up here it's very hard to get the accent right. Even with the knowledge that the z is not pronounced in les Carroz, you need special tongue and throat acrobatics to pronounce the 'Carr' part correctly. You can tell immediately if someone is native or not.
Very true Very Happy However, I think there's quite a big gap between trying and failing to get it exactly right and the British approach which is not even to try at all. I do cringe when I hear Brits talking about CourcheVAL, Mirabel, Val Torennes, Val Claret (like the wine) etc.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If I'm in Finland then I pronounce "sauna" the way the Fins pronounce it, because that's what will be understood.
On the other hand if I say it that way in the UK then it's weird, or possibly pretentious.

If you're going to Ylläs then if you don't know the pronunciation rules you'll need to write it down, but Fins would not "cringe" or be unhelpful about it.

My Canadian accent is coming along nicely, something which those who cringe about English
accented French would also probably cringe about, although as usual the locals don't care. => I think it's an English snob thing.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Anyone want to help with Saint Jean d'Aulps?

As for Avoriaz. I've never heard the French use the Z.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
We have a Frejus (Frayjoo) gondola here in Serre Chevalier (no Z on the end of Chevalier btw), but Frejus on the Med is Frayjoos apparently, it's a local thing.
Also have some friends living in Mas de Blais here which they assure me is Maz de Blay locally........
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
paddyDT wrote:
Anyone want to help with Saint Jean d'Aulps?


San Jon doh
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
After staying a night in Troyes on several occasions, a restaurant owner took a great efforts (and many drinks) to teach us how to pronounce it. Now if anybody would like to explain how you get Twa (he was insistent it was a hard a not ah) from Troyes...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Same way you get it from Trois.
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We warm up beforehand at start of ski trip by travelling from "Land jun" along with living "Sarf" of the river .

Cycle through Kingston, which is flanked by Surbiton (south by town) and Norbiton (north by town) I was schooled by a local.

Amusingly my last teacher of French was a petite Mademoiselle originating from Normandy, of which I'm nothing like. But amusingly in speaking french in Normandy was told I had a local accent, and they knew I'm not native French. She got us to do alot of mimicking her during classes.

It's always interesting to listen for and try to pronounce as they do when visiting, just seems right to acknowledge their interest and time in helping me with their language.
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Quote:

After staying a night in Troyes on several occasions, a restaurant owner took a great efforts (and many drinks) to teach us how to pronounce it. Now if anybody would like to explain how you get Twa (he was insistent it was a hard a not ah) from Troyes...

Was he a Fwenchman who couldn't pronounce his "rrrrs"?
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@ski3, my French teacher was from Besançon and insisted we speak French like we were imitating a French person...for real not Allo Allo style
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@holidayloverxx, so was I. In my head I think I sound like the Anglo French Silly Walk guys in the Python sketch.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It may be considered a romantic language, but the fact, as we have established here, is that even the bloody French don't know how to pronounce their place names.
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How about Orelle, I always thought the 'll' makes it [Orei], but no - locals say [Orel]
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NickYoung wrote:
It may be considered a romantic language, but the fact, as we have established here, is that even the bloody French don't know how to pronounce their place names.

Plenty of places in the UK that are confusing too.
Stroud, gillingham, etc
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Bosham
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Belvoir anyone?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Frome
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Trotiscliffe anyone?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The one in Kent? That's an easy one, especially as the Country Park is spelled the way it's pronounced rather than the spelling of the place.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Llandaff. It's in Wales - obviously - and I grew up within a couple of miles. My Uncle Dennis lived there. Everybody locally called it Landuf - stress on the first syllable - no tricksy Welsh pronunication needed, though anyone from Welsh Wales would have pronounced it correctly - with the tricksy Ll and (I think) equal stress on each syllable.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Slaithwaite, always tells you how local a reporter is to Yorkshire.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I guess a lot of this is down to local accents and pronunciation rather than the grammatical rules of pronunciation. I was listening to some of the reports from Jack Charlton's funeral yesterday. Hardly any of the locals interviewed pronounced the ing in Ashington and the o as a u this making the town's name Ashtun.
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@halfhand,
Quote:

and the o as a u this making the town's name Ashtun.

The 'o' as a 'u' makes good sense to me, otherwise we'd be talking about Lonn-donn and all sorts of weird things.

I can never get my head around the way people have started to mispronounce (IMHO) places like Ascot and Didcot. With a single 't' the vowel should be very short and sound like Asc't or Didc't. If it had two 't's then their pronunciation would make more sense. Some of the people who live there have even started to adopt this new pronunciation.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In our cycling club Dolgellau will forever be Dongly-doogly after one if our members failed to get it right on club weekend near there. Laughing
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due to predictive text we call Flachauwinkl "F*ckywinky"
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

the grammatical rules of pronunciation

Puzzled Is there any such thing in Inglish? If so, what is the grammatical rule for pronouncing "oo".

Book, flood, floor, pool ...... you get my drift.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
foxtrotzulu wrote:
'Mirabel' is always irritating.

@polo,
Quote:

As for Avoriaz.... generally only the foreigners pronounce the z, which is perfectly fine, but my kid informs me with 100% confidence that it's called Avoria locally


I agree. Nobody in their right mind would start talking about Les Carozzz, so why would the final 'z' of Avoriaz be pronounced?


The Southern French pronounce the Z I believe. They say Chamonicks, Avoriaz, Alpe d'Huez. The latter we all pronounce with the Z but this may be as it is a little further south???
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halfhand wrote:
Belvoir anyone?


Yes, being from Leicestershire locally we have:

Belvoir - Beaver
Coalville - Co-vill
Beachamp - Beacham
Conduit - Condutt
Kibworth - Kibbuth
Rothwell - Roal (it's in Northants but close enough)
Kegworth - Kegguth
Groby - Grewbee
Rothley - Row-thlee
Whitwick - Wittick
Heather - Hee-thur

Further afield Bolsover - Bosohver and Uttoxeter is Utchiter, Worksop is Worksoh I believe?
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Woolfardisworthy Very Happy

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that there is no such thing as correct pronunciation, any more than any god is the right one. Pronunciation is how you pronounce it, which is determined by where you come from, both physically and culturally.
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