 Poster: A snowHead
|
I have no idea about their profitability, but you're right, it's unlikely to be anything like the big resorts (Ischgl/Arlberg). There are a couple of hotels, restaurants, a few independent mountain huts, and one bar at the bottom which probably would't open this season anyway as it's standing/bar service only. Most of their visitors are local, on season passes or touring skis and probably don't directly spend anything (students who go to the park take packed lunches and their own beer!). I can see their position, but it also puts pressure on local govt to fund them out of it.
One thing I'm concerned about is the knock on effect locally to other small resorts. I haven't bought mine yet, but Axamer Lizum not opening removes one of the larger and most used areas from the local ticket. Will others follow suit? Will we end up paying €500 for a museum pass, as voluntary closures of ski resorts won't be covered in the t&c for refunds? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Scarlet wrote: |
Most of their visitors are local, on season passes or touring skis and probably don't directly spend anything (students who go to the park take packed lunches and their own beer!). I can see their position, but it also puts pressure on local govt to fund them out of it.
|
Actually I don't think that's the case - Lizum get a lot of school ski trips, and a LOT of weekend coach trips from eg German cities. Also during certain weeks lots of family holiday skiers from Eastern Europe - you'd be surprised how many families come back to the same small resorts year after year.
However I think this will probably turn out to be just a bit of, well blackmail might be too strong a word, but an attempt to get a bit more funding other sort of financial backing. It would be devastating for the local villages and all the hotels and other businesses etc; I really doubt the lift co can get away with doing that sort of damage to that many locals.
That said, Lizum could make a hell of a lot of money but running as a touring only area and just charging for the car park (only cost for them would be snow clearing).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Scarlet, Oi, less of the stereotype nonsense about Yorkshiremen please... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@Scarlet, 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Calling for help from Austrian/German locals , as I am trying to make sense of all the travel rules at the moment  I live in Bulgaria and currently can go to Austria with a negative PCR test within the last 48 hours, which is ok for me. So I thought I would do some early season skiing in November in Tirol. However, I would rather fly to Munich which is much closer than Vienna. I read on the EU site about all the rules currently, but I am still unsure I understood everything. So am I right into thinking that:
- Germany will allow me in with a negative PCR, even if my country (region) is in the high-risk areas list at the time?
- I can get in the rental car and drive to Tirol , entering Austria with the same negative PCR. I presume Austria will allow EU nationals with a negative PCR throughout the whole winter?
- on the way back, I can drive straight to the airport and fly home, as transit through Germany is allowed, provided I have a flight ticket and don't stop anywhere on the way
Are border crossings open are as usual, or I need to go through specific ones? Any other issues I should expect?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@boyanr, The German regulations are due to change on the 15th October. The current situation is that the option of having a negative test will go and be replaced by a five day quarantine. However this is still under discussion and is potentially subject to revision (what isnt at the moment!). Transit is also allowed (again currently) so you should be able to simply pick up a car and drive to the Tirol. Do note that the Tirol is considered a "high risk" area by Germany. Free tests are currently available on arrivals at the airport not just holders of German health insurance, how long this will continue for is an open question.
At the moment there are no restrictions on any of the land borders, the intention is that will remain the case unlike earlier this year. My experience at Munich airport is that there are no checks on anyone arriving from Schengen countries - this was true even in early June.
However all this can change tomorrow so planning for 6 weeks time is difficult to say the least.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
OK, so currently this plan would work. Of course, I should be checking the rules every week, as they might change any day. Good thing is hotel and car offer free cancellation till 24 hours before arrival and Lufthansa offers free reschedule, so there's not much risk. I really want to do some skiing early in the season, before politicians go crazy all over again
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Scarlet wrote: |
@clarky999,
| Quote: |
| However I think this will probably turn out to be just a bit of, well blackmail might be too strong a word, but an attempt to get a bit more funding other sort of financial backing. It would be devastating for the local villages and all the hotels and other businesses etc; I really doubt the lift co can get away with doing that sort of damage to that many locals. |
That’s what I meant by publicity stunt. The press said tomorrow’s meeting would include someone from the tourist board, so maybe you can give us the inside info  |
Losing the last month or so last season would have been painful but survivable. If it all shuts again just after Xmas and New Year then that's disastrous but add in still having staff costs and its game over for very many.
The systems sounds eminently fair for protecting staff from bad practices in normal times but this is not the case at present. Why would any business risk it for something totally outwith their control? Some may think it's better just to write off the season and not make any money rather than risk having to pay staff costs on top of no income.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@robboj, most companies put permanent staff on Kurzarbeit during the shutdown in March/April. Seasonal staff just got laid off early. The same would apply this season, so staff costs really aren't a huge concern. As Scarlet says this could just be a publicity stunt as a way of getting more support from Tirol. Certainly no lift companies in Salzburg have announced anything like this, and the ski area of Gaissau/Hintersee which was closed all last season has announced that it is planning to reopen this season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I was in Vienna at the weekend and noticed a fair few bars / restaurants that have been around for decades have shut up shop. Is the same happening in other areas of Austria?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@DB, the huts are starting to close around here as they would normally do in the off season. Reports from the summer tourism season suggest that the mountain areas haven't done badly, but that the cities have had significantly lower visitor numbers, so perhaps some tourism-dependent businesses in Vienna have closed. Infection numbers there still seem higher than elsewhere, so that will deter visitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
The Kitzbüheler Anzeiger reports that Germany declaring Tyrol & Vorarlberg on 25th Sept to be a high risk areas (with corresponding restrictions, test or quarantine) has brought a premature end to a summer season which wasn't as bad as had been feared.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@queenie pretty please as I said the other day and @espri, It's good that the summer season was strong but I'm sure lots of Germans and Austrians who'd normally have gone to the beach were happy enough to holiday in the hills instead, a bit like here. But folks whom normally seek winter sun are much less likely to decide to go skiing?
Just had a look at my favourite resorts through Crystal for my scheduled w/c 23 Jan and every single hotel they usually offer is available, that would not normally be the case by this point in the year. They must be a bit concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I am sure in the case above there is an element of politics and special pleading. The problem for a lift company is that it isnt simply a case of shutting down the lifts and putting the full time staff on Kurzarbeit. There are costs associated with both preparing (clearing pistes, putting up markers, removing fences etc) and shutting down the resort (reverse of previous) plus the cost of servicing and safety checks on all the equipment and lifts. These costs would be similar if the resort is open for one day or 3 months. If there is a lot of uncertainty over the amount of income likely to be received it could make sense simply not to open this year, the costs of doing so could easily be estimated. It might be better to work with a relatively small but known loss (probably covered by a government grant) rather than risk a much bigger loss on the off chance there might be enough income to cover the operating expenses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@robboj, Crystal might well be concerned, but they are a very small drop in the ski business ocean. Even in the most popular ski areas for British guests, they occupy a small portion of available accommodation. Then of course there are the hundreds of ski areas which are not served by Crystal (and other UK operators). The busiest weeks here are always German, Austrian and Dutch school holidays. These are people that go skiing every year, not winter sun-seekers. Many do not use tour operators, they just book online, pack the car and go. Some of them might stay away this winter, and some of the smaller ski areas that usually struggle to show a profit might have concerns like Axamer Lizum, but at the moment they seem to be a solo case of wanting the take the drastic measure of season-long closure. As munich_irish says, politics will no doubt play a part in the ultimate decision.
The big concern is anything that deters German guests. That really would be a major financial meltdown.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
A better barometer for the forthcoming season is probably booking.com. A quick look on there for New Year week in Söll shows that accommodation is 84% booked. Race week in Kitzbühel is 77% booked, which is especially interesting given that race spectators will be severely limited this season. Fasching week (also Dutch week south and UK half term) in Saalbach is 70% booked. I'm guessing this is lower than usual at this point in the year and that some of these properties may be operating free cancellation policies.
Interestingly, Axamer Lizum properties are showing no availability at all for New Year week. I'm guessing there aren't many properties there, but Innsbruck itself is showing 72% booked.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I believe this article is behind a paywall https://www.sueddeutsche.de/reise/oesterreich-skifahren-reisewarnung-tirol-1.5056233?ieditorial=0 which is a shame as it does go into a good deal of detail with regard to the current situation for the tourist sector in the Tirol. Too long to cut and paste the whole thing but a few interesting paragraphs via Google translate
In a normal October, as many guests come as in July or August, in October 2019 there were exactly 114,292 overnight stays. On this Monday morning two people stand at half past ten on the, albeit very rainy, forecourt in front of the ticket booth and are reminded by an announcement to keep their distance and wear a mask......
Since Tyrol has also been on the red list in Germany, nobody knows whether the masses will even come in winter. A good half of the tourist overnight stays normally are guests from the northern neighbouring country, in the Tuxertal it was recently 58 percent.....
While the virus was spread around the world from the valleys and tourism centers such as Ischgl, St. Anton or Sölden during the early phase of the pandemic, it is now concentrated in the metropolitan areas. While Innsbruck, for example, has a seven-day incidence of over 130, districts strongly influenced by tourism such as Reutte or Lienz in East Tyrol are 3.1 and 2.1.....
The first desperate measures are already growing on the feeling of powerlessness and insecurity. The Axamer Lizum ski area near Innsbruck, once an Olympic site, has submitted an application for a temporary exemption from the operating obligation; it could be closed over the winter. Mario Gerber, chairman of the tourism division in the Tyrol Chamber of Commerce and himself a hotelier, even goes one step further: "If the travel warning is not lifted, successful business is out of the question. Then winter tourism will not take place." He fears a "domino effect of countries following Germany".....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@munich_irish, Yes, paywalled indeed. I doubt they are saying anything that I haven't seen elsewhere, although they might have written it a bit better! The conundrum we have now is that the restrictions brought in a couple of weeks ago have stabilised the infection rate but haven't reduced it. It's not really surprising – I think the only one that is likely to make much difference is the restriction of indoor private gatherings in public (weddings etc.) to 10 people.
It feels like Germany are holding us over a barrel. Hospital admissions are still low, so there is not really any immediate need to reduce cases other than in order to release the travel restrictions. The main argument I am now hearing in order to do that, is to reduce the rate of testing 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Scarlet, I cant see this getting any better any time soon. The German government have been strongly suggesting for a couple of weeks that people dont take any autumn holidays even within Germany. The situation in a number of German cities eg Berlin, Frankfurt, Bremen and some of the Ruhrgebiet, has got a lot worse over recent days to the extent that many German states will not accept visitors from those places. We can hope for a reduction in the number of cases but if that doesnt happen then few Germans are going to be booking ski holidays which will have big consequences in the mountain areas of Austria. As was pointed out in the article 50%+ of visitors come from Germany (the brits dont make any odds one way or other) if they stay at home the Tirolean tourist sector might as well shut up shop. We may well see more smaller ski areas pushing to stay closed for the season.
Reducing the amount of testing will not help, it would likely make things worse as a key metric is the percentage of positive tests. Less tests overall probably will mean a higher percentage of positive ones (simply because those with symptoms more likely to be tested)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| munich_irish wrote: |
| if they stay at home the Tirolean tourist sector might as well shut up shop. We may well see more smaller ski areas pushing to stay closed for the season. |
Yes, this is what we're worried about, as well as the knock-on effect if Lizum stays shut, and is one reason I haven't shelled out for my season ticket yet.
| Quote: |
| Reducing the amount of testing will not help, it would likely make things worse as a key metric is the percentage of positive tests. Less tests overall probably will mean a higher percentage of positive ones (simply because those with symptoms more likely to be tested) |
Not necessarily, if it reduces the number of false positives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So can I clarify current situation forgoing to Austria from U.K.
On the one hand is against FCO advice so invalidates my main insurance but I may be able to get other insurance from Staysure?
But if I go - I well need both a negative test done within 72 hrs of travel AND isolate for 10 days once I get there? This seems to be what the following says, is that an appropriate source of information?
https://www.austria.org/current-travel-information
Checking as the balance for our accommodation for our Christmas trip is due in about 10days
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@NickyJ, I had not picked up on this. I must be asleep. Will be interested in the answers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Hi, on page 18 you will see I posted links to the various entry requirements, a number of us were driving.
The Austrian Government changed the entry requirements for UK residents on 27 July.
The Austrian tourist board has been slow to update its site, having just looked at it there is zero information, I’m assuming that as we have to quarantine there isn’t much need fir tourist information
This a link to the Austrian embassy in London.
https://www.bmeia.gv.at/en/austrian-embassy-london/
Travel insurance is usually invalid if travelling against government advice, best to check with your insurance company
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@NickyJ, it feels like a risk. In my mind I have written off my Nov and Dec trips
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Bennyboy1 wrote: |
| @NickyJ, it feels like a risk. In my mind I have written off my Nov and Dec trips |
I know - my intention is to talk to the accommodation owners and see what they want to do, refund deposit now (they agreed when we booked a long time ago, that if we can’t travel due to Coronavirus they would refund), or leave it longer to see what happens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Quote: |
On the one hand is against FCO advice so invalidates my main insurance but I may be able to get other insurance from Staysure?
|
Of course your EHIC card will still be valid, and joining the A.A.C. (if not already a member) is a cheap and easy way of getting cover for mountain rescue, emergency medical cover, repatriation, third party risks, etc. That’s what we have generally relied on - happy to self-insure for cancellation and loss of property.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@tatmanstours, thanks will look at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| NickyJ wrote: |
Thanks @radar, I hadn't heard it had changed back but wanted to make sure, so I googled.
Thanks @RedandWhiteFlachau, I had read that but really wanted the Austrian source as well
That was the top hit BUT I noticed it wasn't an Austrian source, so I wasn't sure.
Given our rises in cases I really can't believe Austrians ARE allowing us in... and am half expecting that to change in the coming weeks  |
FWIW, THIS is the official Austrian Tourism Board site: https://www.austria.info/en/service-and-facts/coronavirus-information
It should also be noted that the role of Tourism Boards is to promote the destination, they are not 'competent health Authorities', are not involved in setting the travel rules, do not have doctors and virologists on board etc, and often get the news of new changes to travel rules at the same time as the public when they hit the newspaper sites or live broadcast press conferences from the Government.
RE. the second part, I think Austria will only impose incoming quarantines over the winter if they REALLY have to, as they don't want anything imposed reciprocally (other countries preventing their citizens travelling to Austria). I think they would only do that to incoming UK visitors if it were a neccessary condition for Germany to allow its citizens to travel to Austria. Personal opinion, obviously...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Now that I'm at a computer I can paste my post from the summer, just incase anyone is thinking of driving, though the Austrian entry requirements apply to all UK residents, as has been said the tourist board aren't the most informed and did struggle to update their site.
@radar,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Watched some video from a guy I'm following (Stomp It Tutorials) from Hintertux, shot over the past days. The place looked quite packed, especially considering we are still in october... Also the people in my local skiing/snowboarding group seem to be planning trips to the Alps no less than other seasons. In other words, I think the big resorts would not be impacted that badly and will keep working throughout the season (unless there are total border shutdowns). The smaller resorts near the German border would have a hard time, if Germany does not remove Tirol from the high risk areas
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
I stand corrected. Still think the locals make Yorkshiremen look like big spenders though 
! 