 Poster: A snowHead
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Sounds like the only major variable cost is electricity and fuel for the piste bashers. Suspect if the resorts are open at reduced capacity then the resorts will not open all the lifts and prepare all the slopes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@DB, It all depends on the government payment model for the lift companies in pandemic I guess. To a certain extent it's also a function of how they employ their staff, if they are self-employed then they don't need to hire all of them, and can presumably open a limited service with a scaled down overhead. If the lifties/ piste patrol/ prep guys are directly employed can they furlough (or AUT equivalent) them if the resort is open, and the government would perhaps not therefore pay all their wages? I know that in any business i've been involved with if I thought my revenue line was going to be substantially down versus budget i'd be having to look hard at fixed (not easy in this case) and variable costs. It could actually be more beneficial financially for them to stay closed and collect the government cash, which would mean their overheads and staff costs were met, otherwise they may not get enough revenue through the lift pass revenues to cover fixed and variable costs (wages/ power/ snow prep etc). Difficult call, not to say they wouldn't have to close quickly in the event of an outbreak either.....going against much of the other countries advice could be a big gamble. Tricky.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Quite a few lift companies seem to determined to open, and/or have an obligation to open. For example from the Arlberg lift co yesterday evening:
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| Neben den klassischen Skigebieten, die vor allem bei Einheimischen beliebt sind, wollen auch die großen Skigebiete wie St. Anton am Arlberg aufsperren, sagte Mario Stedile-Foradori, Vorstand der Arlberger Bergbahnen. Es würden allerdings nicht alle Lifte und Pisten zur Verfügung stehen. „Das Angebot liegt zwischen 30 und 50 Prozent“, so Stedile-Foradori. |
Basically even though tourism - it seems - won't be happening until January, there will still be skiing going on in the Arlberg. And with a lot fewer bashed pistes than normal...
Here's the main article from Der Standard, put through Deepl Translate, with my bold: https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000122134319/kein-skiurlaub-in-den-weihnachtsferien
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No skiing holidays during the Christmas holidays
Schools and commerce are being ramped up, catering and hotels will remain closed for the time being - probably until January. Cableways may nevertheless start operating.
No skiing [holidays] during the Christmas holidays - that is what the government plans to announce on Wednesday after the Council of Ministers.
There will be no skiing holidays in Austria, not this year. Christmas holidays will not be able to be spent on the slopes, neither by Austrians [guests] nor by foreign guests. Although the cable cars will be operating, the catering and hotel industry will remain closed, and the Corona-related closure is to last until January. These and other measures will be announced by the government on Wednesday after the Council of Ministers.
Schools and shops are to reopen from 7 December, but with restrictions. A distinction will be made between primary, lower and upper secondary schools, compulsory masks will be tightened, not everyone should always be present at school at the same time.
In the retail sector, compulsory masks will continue, and there will also be strict measures regarding space and spacing.
Hotels and restaurants closed
The tourism industry seems to have already come to terms with the fact that Christmas holidays will not be celebrated in winter ski resorts: Hotels and restaurants will remain closed for the time being. This regulation does not in any way give in to pressure from abroad, he said, but is rather a matter of course in view of the current infection figures. Recently, Italy and especially Germany had put pressure on Austria to stop winter tourism in Austria. Skiing will be allowed, but not in the form of holidays. There will be no rooms and no catering.
Cableways will start operating
However, the cableways will open, they are considered public transport and have an operating obligation, but under the circumstances their services are only available to local residents living nearby. This obligation to operate goes back to the railway law to which they are assigned, as cableway legal expert Christoph Haidlen from Innsbruck explains: "Every concession for cableway operations also includes an obligation to operate, because there is a public interest in operating them".
This obligation would actually have already existed during the first lockdown in spring, says Haidlen. However, there was no objection to the closure at that time and it was therefore not prejudiced. Only the competent Ministry of Transport could exempt the cableways from the operating obligation by decree. Anyone who fails to comply with this obligation, which actually covers all the lifts in a ski area, could even risk losing his or her licence. "But this question has actually never been asked before," says Haidlen.
Tourism in January
Only in January is the tourism offer to be slowly increased again, there will be different dates for this, a step-by-step plan is being worked out. |
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 2-12-20 10:59; edited 2 times in total
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@Markymark29, the lift companies employ staff on seasonal contracts. These contracts have already started so the staff are already being paid, plus of course the land is leased for the duration of the season. I expect the lift companies will receive some sort of financial support from the government but any income they can gain from opening the lifts and selling lift passes will at least mitigate this.
Lifts have been designated as 'public transport', so like buses and trains who are experiencing less use and receiving some financial support from the government.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@clarky999, all you need now is powder and it’ll be awesome, empty slopes, limited piste bashing and a few lifts running to get you up high.....lucky you!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is there a January date they have in mind for tourist opening? Problem is weekends may still require a 5 day (min) quarantine on return to uk.
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| DB wrote: |
| Sounds like the only major variable cost is electricity and fuel for the piste bashers. Suspect if the resorts are open at reduced capacity then the resorts will not open all the lifts and prepare all the slopes. |
Question- if a piste (or resort) is closed, but planned to open later in year, do they need to periodically (after heavy snow etc) bash the (steep) pistes earmarked for later opening, to make obliterate any weak layers underneath as they develop? Or will bashing it just before opening do
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Unless there's 3m of snow at once, there's no need to worry about "week layer underneath", when you drive (several times) 10+ tons machine over the snowpack to prepare course. But they will go out in between for sure, to make snow more compact, which will make it stay longer in spring.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Does anybody know what time the announcement is today? Assuming what was published in the paper yesterday is true, I’m interested to learn whether they will restrict sale of sale of ski passes to just Austrian nationals.
If you can still buy a pass, it looks like Christmas maybe on for skiing after all
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@trainee snowboard jedi, the official government announcement hasn't happened yet, but it does seem that most details have already been released to the press. On the news this morning, schools and shops reopen, but not hairdressers, indoor sports, restaurants, bars and hotels. Ski areas can reopen for locals and day trippers only. No ski holidays, international arrivals intending to stay in Austria for more than 24 hours, have to quarantine for 10 days.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes I've skied various resorts early season before (e.g. Obergurgl, Obertauern) in Nov / early December. Although there was enough snow they didn't groom all the pistes as there weren't enough customers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks @queenie pretty please, the quarantine bit would count me out unfortunately, which is disappointing, but understandable.
Our winter bookings have been dropping like flies, we’ve only got 1 week in the diary now!
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@queenie pretty please, odd that they’re letting day trippers in, I would have thought that is still contains risk. I guess some resorts are reliant on the Hungarian bus trips
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You know it makes sense.
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@trainee snowboard jedi, unlikely to be much of a risk. Skiing is an outdoor activity and the use of lifts is subject to the same safety measures as all other forms of public transport. I assume the sale of day passes is the positive factor.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| trainee snowboard jedi wrote: |
| @queenie pretty please, odd that they’re letting day trippers in, I would have thought that is still contains risk. I guess some resorts are reliant on the Hungarian bus trips |
Up this end of Austria (Eastern) it will be chaos, millions of Viennese & East block skiers fighting for space at the few local ski reorts. I'll probably travel as far west as possible that is acheivable in a day e.g. 2 hrs to Hinterstöder, 2.5 hrs to Tauplitz. Maybe by Christmas we (Austrian residents) will be able to mix with other families so it might be possible to visit others nearer the ski resorts. (Snowheads Austrian Resident Bash anyone  )
I could borrow a people carrier and attempt to sleep in that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @trainee snowboard jedi, unlikely to be much of a risk. Skiing is an outdoor activity and the use of lifts is subject to the same safety measures as all other forms of public transport. I assume the sale of day passes is the positive factor. |
I agree, my point, not very well made, is that arguably, the risk is higher allowing bus loads of different international day trippers in each day, rather than letting a lower number of people who own second homes in to stay for a week.
However, I’m not an epidemiologist!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| trainee snowboard jedi wrote: |
| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @trainee snowboard jedi, unlikely to be much of a risk. Skiing is an outdoor activity and the use of lifts is subject to the same safety measures as all other forms of public transport. I assume the sale of day passes is the positive factor. |
I agree, my point, not very well made, is that arguably, the risk is higher allowing bus loads of different international day trippers in each day, rather than letting a lower number of people who own second homes in to stay for a week.
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Worth bearing in mind that border restrictions (quarantine/negative test) are still in place for countries like the Czech Republic (and eg parts of the UK) - opening the lifts won't necessarily mean a free for all for international day trippers!
| DB wrote: |
Up this end of Austria (Eastern) it will be chaos, millions of Viennese & East block skiers fighting for space at the few local ski reorts. I'll probably travel as far west as possible that is acheivable in a day e.g. 2 hrs to Hinterstöder, 2.5 hrs to Tauplitz. |
We will be in Windischgarsten for Christmas, and hoping that not all of Vienna will descend on Wurzeralm haha! Although my gf's parents in OÖ are already thinking about how they can manage skiing in Ischgl while the crowds are reduced, so maybe all the skier traffic will just get pushed westwards!
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 2-12-20 11:14; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@trainee snowboard jedi, press conference at 1pm, I think, though I normally give the press an hour or so after it's finished to sort out a decent write-up. The info that's been leaked is probably close to what will happen, but at times the press have been way off in their guesstimates so don't take anything as fact until after the announcement (and even then there will be several days of clarifications).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @clarky999, all you need now is powder and it’ll be awesome, empty slopes, limited piste bashing and a few lifts running to get you up high.....lucky you! |
Yeah, it's a weird one! On one hand, from a purely selfish skiing perspective it's basically a dream scenario. On the other hand, it's pretty devastating for tourism (which I work in) and I'm concerned for a lot of people who will be hit hard by it. I think there will be a lot of government support for those people/businesses, but obviously we'll be paying that back through tax too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This thread is super helpful.
Has anyone got a clue what the position is for people with 2nd homes? I couldn't work out from the Standard article is an aufweis would be required to get on the lifts, or what would happen if one had a season ticket (partic given the fact that the barriers are automatic). In our case the season tickets have already been bought so would be a shame if we can't use them...
Do you know also if it is likely that the quarantine position will be the same as in the summer? I.e. you need to show a -ve test within 48 hrs of the entry date, or if there will be no carve-out?
As clarky999 says it sounds like there may be some phenomenal skiing on offer so am quite keen to be able to get into it!
So many variables here that I'm not sure the formal announcement will lift the clouds, but perhaps the Austrian govt will make a better fist of this than ours!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@A118, all will become clear very shortly, but it seems that second home owners who have to cross an international border will either need to quarantine for 10 days, or for 5 days if they take a test (for which they must pay) on the 5th day which is negative. Nothing has yet been mentioned in regard to second home owners from within Austria.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| We will be in Windischgarsten for Christmas, and hoping that not all of Vienna will descend on Wurzeralm haha! Although my gf's parents in OÖ are already thinking about how they can manage skiing in Ischgl while the crowds are reduced, so maybe all the skier traffic will just get pushed westwards! |
I've got it ! An apres ski 3 piece suit, shirt & tie (so I can book into a hotel on business)
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Got it - thanks queenie!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@queenie pretty please, f*cked again!
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According to the press conference, ski lifts will open on 24th Dec...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sking
From Die Presse : Outdoor sports venues can open from December 24th, which means that skiing, cross-country skiing and ice skating will then also be possible again. There are capacity restrictions and a mask requirement in gondolas.
Entry restrictions, I'm sure there will be more detail later and a list of countries that have a high infection rate:
From Die Presse: With reference to those who returned to travel in the summer "who brought the virus back in", Chancellor Kurz argued the "restrictive border regime" that will now apply: the risk areas should be classified on the basis of the 14-day Incidence of positive corona cases happen. All countries with a value above 100 are classified as risk areas. People entering from a risk area then have to go into quarantine for ten days. A PCR test can be done after five days. If the test result is negative, the quarantine can be ended prematurely. There will also be exemptions for commuters.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have just seen Andy on snow camps Europe say that the Austrian Government are discussing have no Apres in 21/22 season also.
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| radar wrote: |
Sking
From Die Presse : Outdoor sports venues can open from December 24th, which means that skiing, cross-country skiing and ice skating will then also be possible again. There are capacity restrictions and a mask requirement in gondolas.
Entry restrictions, I'm sure there will be more detail later and a list of countries that have a high infection rate:
From Die Presse: With reference to those who returned to travel in the summer "who brought the virus back in", Chancellor Kurz argued the "restrictive border regime" that will now apply: the risk areas should be classified on the basis of the 14-day Incidence of positive corona cases happen. All countries with a value above 100 are classified as risk areas. People entering from a risk area then have to go into quarantine for ten days. A PCR test can be done after five days. If the test result is negative, the quarantine can be ended prematurely. There will also be exemptions for commuters. |
Thanks, 5 days quarantine with a test makes it accessible.
Any idea whether tests are easy to sort in Austria?
Thanks
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You know it makes sense.
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@trainee snowboard jedi, the local clinic in flachau offers tests but only on set days of the week so the 5 days might be e.g. 7
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 2-12-20 14:54; edited 2 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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No answer on what happens in January then, oh well. More uncertainty for those of us holidaying in Austria in January!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@trainee snowboard jedi, the clinic in Zell offers testing, which would be the closest to Saalbach Hinterglemm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So, hypothetical situation: if someone goes that week (xmas-ny) and finds an airbnb or an apartment to rent, and uses the lifts as is, how do they prevent that?
Or is that the point of the quarantine, that if you do want to show up during xmas-ny, you come, you quarantine for 5 days and get tested, and then you can go out and play?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@blind_raven, that's the way I read it ............assuming they'll let you into the country (>100/100,000 cases etc). Not the greatest way to spend your festive season i'd suggest.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A restaurant update
From Die Presse,
Gastronomy
The catering establishments must remain closed until January 7th, then they can reopen. However, collection is still possible. Open alcoholic beverages may not be sold. Delivery services can also deliver at night. However, Christmas markets remain prohibited
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm not planning to, I was just trying to understand how it works.
I gave up on xmas skiing for this year - even before this whole drama between the European countries started. Even had it been in its original make-up it's asking for a lot of pain for not a lot of gain.
I wonder if the measures will stay the same for next year - I was thinking of taking 3-4 weeks of just being in Austria and skiing, and in that case, a test and some 5 days don't really bother me much. I can catch up on my reading 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@blind_raven, you cannot legally rent a holiday apartment or AirBNB, these services are closed.
I also wonder if they are going to prohibit the purchase of multi-day lift passes in favour of day passes only.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 2-12-20 15:32; edited 1 time in total
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I mean... how? Middle of the pandemic when borders were closed some people down the road here managed to still get visitors (If there's a will there's a way, I guess?) And it's not like they can tell airbnb what to do...
Anyway, I'm not sure it matters, and it will likely be plenty of sustained effort to keep people from trying to go around measures/be stupid.
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@blind_raven, AirBNB owners in Austria have to be legally registered tourism properties. As such they are currently closed to all but business guests.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@blind_raven, on point one, depends on how that person would view breaking the law and putting others at risk, you would also need to buy a lift pass, they might ask you to prove the arrival date when making the purchase. The point of the quarantine is to reduce the risk of another spike .
I'm with @Markymark29, on the second point
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| blind_raven wrote: |
So, hypothetical situation: if someone goes that week (xmas-ny) and finds an airbnb or an apartment to rent, and uses the lifts as is, how do they prevent that?
Or is that the point of the quarantine, that if you do want to show up during xmas-ny, you come, you quarantine for 5 days and get tested, and then you can go out and play? |
We'll have to wait for details, but it's very unlikely anyone at the lift ticket desks will really be controlling your residency status. However, you would have to 1. quarantine, 2. find an airBNB or apartment owner willing to take the risk of illegally renting to you, and 3. hope no-one living nearby gets suspicious of the strangers tramping in and out of the apartment each day with ski kit and calls the police.
The 3 factors together, combined with all the options your travel insurance will have to not pay out if you have an accident, will probably be all the prevention required, I'd have thought?!
If on the other hand you want to go longer term, you rent an apartment for 3 months, register as resident, sort out your healthcare insurance etc, then - once your quarantine is over - you should be able to go skiing no problem at all. Ski holidays are banned, not skiing.
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FAQ
