 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a lot of questions. When do offices reopen? Nurseries?
But I am overwhelmingly grateful that the hairdressers open first!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Questions here too: bars/restaurants? International borders?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yep - nice to see a framework but my personal most pressing questions weren’t answered!
1) when can I go back to CrossFit?
2) when can I go back to work?
3) when can I travel?
I saw on the bzonline report that travel for tourism purposes is discouraged so I’m guessing (3) is not before the 8th June.
I am however also very grateful that I’ll be able to go to the hairdressers having not had it cut since early January!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Queues for hairdressers could be longer than a February Saturday at Geneva airport departure hall.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@PeakyB, I reckon the garden centers and DIY stores will be worse!
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Mrs t_m just got the first available appointment with her hairdresser - 9am on the 27th. Boy is she happy!
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| PeakyB wrote: |
| Queues for hairdressers could be longer than a February Saturday at Geneva airport departure hall. |
First world problems......
But seriously, as social distancing will still be part of an ultimate solution, do you really want to get that close to a person who is in close proximity to dozens of folks a day?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hmm imagine a country where the residents are deemed to be mature enough to be communicated with about the future......
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@chocksaway, if I’m first in line then yes absolutely
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@chocksaway, yep. My hairdresser works alone in his own salon and won’t see more than 6 people in a day... but regardless - as a fit and healthy thirty-something with no pre-existing conditions and no contact with anyone vulnerable I’m not terribly worried about catching it. Lockdown has never been about stopping people catching it indefinitely, just about smoothing the curve to manage the demand on healthcare. I’ll continue to follow the government advice and resume activities as and when they say I can.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@chocksaway, I think we all expect to get it, don't we? Or at least, those of us who are going to get it.
I'm not sure where you are currently, but I know lots of people in London have had it. Including me.
What I haven't had is a haircut and I'm thinking of attacking it myself...
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How I'll look when I next go to the hairdresser.......
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Hmm imagine a country where the residents are deemed to be mature enough to be communicated with about the future...... |
Or the residents do as they are told when they are told, significant minorities of the UK and French populace did not through bloody mindedness or poor levels of education. Therefore the Government have to deal with the lowest common denominator, so not having mixed messaging probably helps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Hmm imagine a country where the residents are deemed to be mature enough to be communicated with about the future...... |
Or the residents do as they are told when they are told, significant minorities of the UK and French populace did not through bloody mindedness or poor levels of education. Therefore the Government have to deal with the lowest common denominator, so not having mixed messaging probably helps. |
Yeah I'm not so sure how significant that minority was/is. A few people driving out in isolation to a Derbyshire beauty spot or sunbathing in a London park at a perfectly fine social distance were not harming anything per the spirit of the rules and what I observe from the window where I work, my daily walk or bike ride and rare shopping trips the very great majority are totally compliant. Yet Matt Hancock thinks we're all toddlers who'll immediately gorge ourselves on the Easter Egg of freedom as soon as its even mentioned as a possibility:roll:
Dickheads be dickheads - no amount of rules or restrictions on the whole of society will stop them being so. But if UK Gov want to hold us all at fault because they can't find a way to effectively police a very small minority then shame on them,
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Poster: A snowHead
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And no doubt we would then have people on here shouting about a police state but it appears you decided months ago that this Government is worthy of nothing but your contempt, so frankly I shouldn't have bothered engaging, bit like Dutch troll or whitetroll.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@chocksaway, having a different opinion to you doesn't make me a troll. Any more than your BoJo pajamas make you one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Oi! You’re on Swiss soil here and we don’t like squabbles so take it back to the 1000000 other threads and leave this one nice and neutral. Danke.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sorry. I'll leave you to your Nazi gold and Toblerone. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| as a fit and healthy thirty-something with no existing conditions and no contact with anyone vulnerable I’m not terribly worried about catching it |
Have you missed the news?
Firstly, it would appear that rather a lot of completely fit and well people have caught Covid-19 and died.
Secondly, we must all ensure that we adhere to social distancing etc and do all we can to avoid passing it on unknowingly - there's a theory that it can be passed on an asymptomatic basis. How do you know that does not apply to you and that any people you have been near are not vulnerable?
Nobody can afford complacency or assume that they will be just fine... 
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| Oi! You’re on Swiss soil here and we don’t like squabbles so take it back to the 1000000 other threads and leave this one nice and neutral. Danke. |
Genau. This thread is about the Swiss exit strategy. If you want to bitch about the situation in the U.K. or other countries, there are plenty of other threads for you to 'contribute' to, and if not, you can start your own.
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@mountainaddict, I'd disagree with "rather a lot" - and I don't believe there have been *any* here in CH - but anyway, there are risks everywhere in life. People also die cycling on the roads (I cycle everywhere around town), in avalanches (I ski off piste, and without a guide...) to name just two. If you want to cocoon yourself in a bubble until there's a vaccine that's up to you, but we cannot keep the whole population in lockdown until then. These measures are about managing the rate of infections, not about preventing everyone getting it. I evaluate the risk of me dying or even becoming seriously ill from COVID-19 as tiny - and smaller than other risks I've happily taken and will continue to take in life. I'd argue that it's the responsibility of the young and healthy to keep the economy turning, which means buying stuff, and doing stuff, as normal as well as going to work and earning money. I've followed all the Swiss government's advice and will continue to do so as I believe that it is sensible and scientifically led. So when they say it's ok for me to visit the hairdresser, I will do so.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Sorry. I'll leave you to your Nazi gold and Toblerone. |
And our smooth transition out of lockdown. Tschüss
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@Gämsbock, spot on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Gämsbock,
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scientifically led
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Not if they mandate universal mask wearing ...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@under a new name, which they explicitly said yesterday that they aren’t.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Gämsbock,
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scientifically led
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Not if they mandate universal mask wearing ... |
The UK have specifically said that the evidence on masks is evolving and they are reviewing it, they may mandate it in time.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @chocksaway, having a different opinion to you doesn't make me a troll. Any more than your BoJo pajamas make you one. |
I didn't call you a troll, I just said it wasn't worth engaging with you. You are highly intolerant of other opinions and make heavy use of demeaning stereotypes when someone offers another opinion, rather than using cogent arguments.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
... Secondly, we must all ensure that we adhere to social distancing etc and do all we can to avoid passing it on unknowingly - there's a theory that it can be passed on an asymptomatic basis. How do you know that does not apply to you and that any people you have been near are not vulnerable?
Nobody can afford complacency or assume that they will be just fine... |
That's not the issue or what they said.
You're confusing the meaning of "asymptomatic", which is not really relevant in the way you seem to think. You could be without symptoms and pass on active virus, just as a piece of wood could be and could do. That doesn't effect the risk profile of the disease, which has been published widely and is not really in question. This all sounds a bit like a helmet debate - sure, no one has zero risk, but not everyone's risk is the same.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Here in the UK a major issue is the recent, purely political campaign of attacking and demeaning 'experts' at every opportunity. Indeed, it's still going on: see today's character assassination of the head of the Imperial College team in the The Express et al. A very easy tactic, as almost invariably, expert predictions turn out wrong in some way, which makes for good attack material. Reading the Nouvelliste and it's reporting of cantonal and federal news, against the UK press output which mostly just photocopies soundbites from Ministers' speeches underlines what it is to be treated as an adult citizen, vs unworthy of serious regard.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @chocksaway, having a different opinion to you doesn't make me a troll. Any more than your BoJo pajamas make you one. |
I didn't call you a troll, I just said it wasn't worth engaging with you. You are highly intolerant of other opinions and make heavy use of demeaning stereotypes when someone offers another opinion, rather than using cogent arguments. |
Our difference here was your use of the term "significant minority" in support of why you believe UK public shouldn't be told anything. I haven't seen your cogent argument as to why "significant" is justified. Basically it seems to me that you are saying that the UK public per capita are stupider than the Swiss so they are fair game to be treated like mushrooms. Anyway if you want to continue the sparring how about apres zone and leave this lot to their cuckoo clocks and bans on flushing the toilet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Gämsbock, good. I may have mistaken Switzerland for France (where some Mayors have mandated it but been then smacked down by one ministry or another, although it is being discussed in the lockdown release discussion).
@T Bar, I appreciate the thinking on mask wearing but the evidence isn't, really. As in, controlled, science based, study. Very low levels of current evidence and no-one I suppose who could, has time.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@T Bar, I appreciate the thinking on mask wearing but the evidence isn't, really. As in, controlled, science based, study. Very low levels of current evidence and no-one I suppose who could, has time. |
I certainly don't claim any detailed knowledge of the literature on mask wearing, but I think we need to distinguish between evidence and certainty or very high degree of probability..
As far as I am aware there is pretty good evidence that mask wearing by patients with covid decreases the risk to carers and others around them(though it certainly doesn't eliminate it.) There is also very good evidence that wearing masks and discarding them properly decreases the risk to health care workers when caring for patients with covid..
ie it is virtually certain that at some level masks are protective, though the protection is far from absolute.
Extrapolating that to population based behavior is certainly very uncertain, however the possibility of reducing transmission is certainly there. I also believe that there has been some work suggesting that in some Asian countries where mask wearing is high transmission of other infectious diseases has fallen.
Mask wearing would almost certainly not work in isolation but as part of a package it may contribute however I would certainly go with the scientific committee who can study all the evidence on it rather than my own opinion when I readily acknowledge I have not.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds a lot like a helmet debate. It's pretty hard to prove that wearing masks in bed won't reduce transmission risks... I reckon you'll all be wearing them pretty soon, and that it won't make a significant difference. I love the idea of smokers (highly at risk, after all...) using masks. How's that going to be for y'all?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@T Bar, none of the studies are very rigourous nor robust (at least none I have seen, but I am not an expert).
While a proper respirator, designed for purpose, worn correctly, used properly, will give some protection to the wearer and some protection to those around, that definition of mask goes well beyond something knocked up by a volunteer (bless their cotton socks) in their sewing room from old ESF uniforms (being the suggestion from our local and many other Mairie's in France). There is absolutely zero chance that a properly etc., respirator will be provided to e.g. everyone in France in sufficient volume to be effective.
I mean, the NHS doesn't even have enough for front line HCWs...
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@philwig, smokers and vapers will just cut holes in the front. Obvs.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@T Bar, none of the studies are very rigourous nor robust (at least none I have seen, but I am not an expert).
While a proper respirator, designed for purpose, worn correctly, used properly, will give some protection to the wearer and some protection to those around, that definition of mask goes well beyond something knocked up by a volunteer (bless their cotton socks) in their sewing room from old ESF uniforms (being the suggestion from our local and many other Mairie's in France). There is absolutely zero chance that a properly etc., respirator will be provided to e.g. everyone in France in sufficient volume to be effective.
I mean, the NHS doesn't even have enough for front line HCWs... |
The evidence is for masks not respirators. Respirators are not worn in the UK unless there are aerosol generating procedures.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Re: masks in Switzerland, the Bundesrat said in their briefing yesterday that a general obligation for healthy people to wear masks remains not envisaged. There may be specific requirements in specific industries to do so. I did also read something yesterday which I now can’t find along the lines of each person would require several a day in order for them to be used effectively and there simply are not enough for that so they prefer targeted use.
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@T Bar, indeed, respirators work (fitted and worn properly), masks generally don't... I shouldn't have discussed the same things in the same sentences should I ?
My totally off topic point is really that the devils are in the details and wearing an old bit of ESF pant crotch (which may, all things considered, be very fun or very not) stiched up by la vieille Madame Miggins is unlikely to have any benefit (unless you know the provenance of said crotch), and it coincides with your "interests"...
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 17-04-20 13:08; edited 1 time in total
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