 Poster: A snowHead
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Does anyone have up to date contact info for MPI please,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Stupid me, they are on lockdown and working from home, please ignore my question.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Communication I had was they’re about 3 weeks behind schedule due to the volume of claims. I expect it’ll probably take longer due to delays in collecting details from other parties involved in the claim.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@enigma, I saw on their website that they wanted email communications due to home working. I’ve had a claim acknowledgement but pointing out that they have many to process.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you all. Michael from MPI here. We are running c. 3 to 4 weeks behind on claims due to the numbers, not ideal and apologies - unusual times.
You can buy insurance from us at the moment for next winter for trips commencing before 31/8/21 but alas without cover for Covid 19.
Our contact details: are 01428 664 265 or info@mpibrokers.com. All staff are working from home and phones/emails are being answered.
Hoping for a good 20/21 season.
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@michaelski, I'm only popping into snowHeads once in a blue moon at the moment, but I'm glad I did just now and therefore spotted your post. I just want to say that your staff are absolute stars, I have encountered nothing but efficiency, promptness and kindness from all of them.
Thanks from an MPI fan!
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@michaelski, Totally agree and echo what Hurtle says above ...
Whilst you are here could you give us some idea how much more we will be paying when/if we can no longer use an EHIC in EU hospitals (particularly France for me)
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@michaelski, as the two above, great service, claim dealt with efficiently. Anything we had booked for Italy in March we got swung forward to late September, if we lose that we will just suck that up ourselves, not massive in the whole scheme of things.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you all for your kind words. To answer your question on EHIC this will depend on the negotiations between UK and EU. My guess is it will go to the wire and there will be some sort of deal with an EHIC lookalike. If not the immediate effect we will be paying 100% for all medical treatment in EU. The EHIC scheme allows for approx 80% paid by the State in 'States' hospitals. It varies for country to country. Over time there will be individual arrangements between UK and countries separately.
The effect on insurance premiums is self evident which will effect ski insurance more than others as the majority of claims is for injuries.
Anyone still abroad and your insurance is running out or has run out you can buy from us on line whilst outside UK, but alas not cover for Covid 19.
MP
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@michaelski, If the UK has no EHIC agreement next year and MPI are not offering covid cover for medical expenses while abroad, how is your insurance a viable product?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@cad99uk, I would say that would be a statement you could apply to any travel insurance policy next year. Covid-19 will become like the nuclear fallout clause in all policies.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@chocksaway, Some insurance companies still seem to be covering medical expenses for Covid though. Not sure how anyone can self insure against the medical expense risk of Covid while away.
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| cad99uk wrote: |
| @michaelski, If the UK has no EHIC agreement next year and MPI are not offering covid cover for medical expenses while abroad, how is your insurance a viable product? |
Well people do get travel insurance for the rest of the world. I would imagine Europe will just become priced along those lines.
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You know it makes sense.
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| cad99uk wrote: |
| @chocksaway, Some insurance companies still seem to be covering medical expenses for Covid though. |
I had a look last week as my annual policy expires soon and I want to renew it, and the companies I checked all had exclusions for pandemics. This was certainly the case for cancellation cover, which is what I was mainly looking at, not sure about medical expenses. If anyone spots a company offering pandemic / Covid cover I'd be interested to see a link.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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This seems to cover medical expenses
https://www.axa.co.uk/disruption/#upcoming-trip
Scroll down to: I am looking to buy travel insurance
"If you purchase a new policy now, it will not cover any trip cancellation or disruption in relation to Coronavirus.
If you already have an annual multi-trip policy and you book a new trip now, you may not be covered to cancel that trip, or for any disruption you experience.
The coronavirus exclusion only applies to cancellation or disruption claims.
We will continue to cover medical costs if customers become ill in a country or region the FCO hasn’t advised against visiting."
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Poster: A snowHead
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Covid19 costs could be substantial, if you become ill abroad and need to be hospitalised.
EHIC would cover these costs. Insurance will not.
This is why I cannot see a 2020/21 ski season in Europe for British residents unless the Brexit transition period is extended.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@cad99uk, thanks, it's the trip cancellation cover I'd like to have, but from the little bit of searching I've done no insurance company seems to be offering that at the moment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I can't see why reciprocal heath deals won't continue with key countries, after all we have them with non-EU countries like NZ and Australia. Places with big UK populations like Spain and France will likely continue - that's my gut feel anyway.
As for ski resorts, it kind of makes little difference depending on where you ski as many medical facilities are private - places like 3V and Val D'Isere/Tignes for example - the first place you'll be carted off to is likely private. Chamonix obviously has a public hospital and is probably the best place to have a serious ski accident.
Re medical claims - If you catch coronavirus in a ski resort, the symptoms won't appear until you get home (or maybe never). The BIG issue will be if an outbreak causes cancellation and curtailments - highly likely and both almost uninsurable now for anything pandemic related.
When it comes to premiums for next year I think best to prepare for a shock - best to buy now if you can before brokers renew terms with their underwriters. Those underwriters tend not to reinsure for travel, other than really chunky medical claims so they will be looking to recoup cold hard cash over the forthcoming years. Direct Line, for example, have reinsurance of £18.5m against claims of £5m so a player like that might not have to increase as much (their reinsurance cost will go through the roof however).
I think they will use data from this pandemic to load premiums - eg if you are male, over 60 and have a few pre-existing conditions then it could all get rather eye-watering. I don't know, but what I do know is that they will be modelling all scenarios.
| Quote: |
| We are running c. 3 to 4 weeks behind on claims due to the numbers |
- that alone tells you the issue. Underwriters aren't in it to lose money, claims have to be less than premiums or the lights go out in the big shiny offices and the golf day gets cancelled.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| As for ski resorts, it kind of makes little difference depending on where you ski as many medical facilities are private - places like 3V and Val D'Isere/Tignes for example - the first place you'll be carted off to is likely private. Chamonix obviously has a public hospital and is probably the best place to have a serious ski accident. |
If it's a serious accident you'll be taken to a public hospital, as these will have the facilities to deal with serious accidents. Albertville or Grenoble will see more serious injuries from skiers in the Savoie. I was taken to Schwaz Hospital in Austria, from Hintertux passing a number of private clinics in the valley. A quick flash of my EHIC and a signature on discharge, not a penny to pay.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Pruman wrote: |
| Re medical claims - If you catch coronavirus in a ski resort, the symptoms won't appear until you get home (or maybe never). The BIG issue will be if an outbreak causes cancellation and curtailments - highly likely and both almost uninsurable now for anything pandemic related. |
This is why I'm not so bothered about medical cover for Covid. If I show symptoms it's very likely I'll have enough time to make arrangements to travel home at short notice. It's having trips cancelled and being able to recoup some of that cost is what I'm looking for.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@michaelski, thanks for the info.
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Anyone still abroad and your insurance is running out or has run out you can buy from us on line whilst outside UK, but alas not cover for Covid 19.
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For the past few years I have had your Longstay policies for our winter seasons. This would be fine for normal accident and injury cover. However, this could potentially leave a big hole in cover should hospitalisation occur, especially if there is no replacement for the EHIC.
Hmmm.
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I'm interested, inter alia, on what the precise wording will be as to any exclusions, immediate and/or long term future.
"Coronavirus" or "Covid 19" or Sars-Cov-2": all have different potential meanings and implications. And what about 'potential' infection (need testing, can't travel, weren't infected as it turns out); or rock up at airport and refused boarding because have a slight raised temp... Will it be any "Pandemic" (known or unknown as yet) or any "Epidemic" (sub-pandemic), or any viral outbreak or...???? I mean, there is normal flu season, never mind bad fly strains. Other viruses are also available, and can present big health treatment or potential cancellation issues to some with particular health conditions. And do those conditions (e.g. asthma, copd) get excluded if exacerbated by anything viral, even if not Covid?
Who knows - but I can many minefields to be negotiated and interpretations to be argued over.
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@Grizzler, try this. From the London insurance market but gives you an idea.
LMA 5391
‘CORONAVIRUS EXCLUSION
This Insurance does not cover any claim in any way caused by or resulting from:
a) Coronavirus disease (COVID-19);
b) Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2);
c) any mutation or variation of SARS-CoV-2;
d) any fear or threat of a), b) or c) above.’
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@DJL, Hmmm, OK, from a preliminary read that's not a bad wording. I'm sure, given time, I or others could find some "but what if"s.
So a very specific exclusion then.
No wider vision of or attempt to protect against any future other similar problem.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ... I'm not so bothered about medical cover for Covid. If I show symptoms it's very likely I'll have enough time to make arrangements to travel home at short notice. It's having trips cancelled and being able to recoup some of that cost is what I'm looking for. |
If you know you're symptomatic, travelling would perhaps be somewhat anti-social, but I'm sure some people will do that and know they're doing it.
It remains to be seen if temperature measurement or other mechanisms can stop infected people travelling.
I guess if you're in Europe you can drive and probably not pass any such checks, even post Brexit.
The worst-case costs are still modest compared with the price of UK housing.
There is an argument for going out and getting the thing now, whilst the health service is very quiet and the marginal costs zero.
| Grizzler wrote: |
| ... And do those conditions (e.g. asthma, copd) get excluded if exacerbated by anything viral, even if not Covid? |
I guess it depends on how you look at it.
The main cost issue, death aside, is the up-to 30-days being ventilated, which is probably fairly easily attributable to Covid for insurance purposes
(because you'd not expect that as a typical risk of being obese, for example).
They're excluding all of it, so it's moot, but clearly the risks for this particular thing differ widely.
Even so, insurance companies may be uncomfortable charging fat people more, so the exclusion is maybe easier.
The effect's similar... because those of us without those conditions can probably accept the reduced risk.
Presumably insurance companies did cover 'flu, for which you can be immunised.
Do they have clauses which say you need to take the jab, I wonder?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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(Quote button still not working!) "insurance companies did cover 'flu, for which you can be immunised. Do they have clauses which say you need to take the jab, I wonder?"
No. Not for my policies anyway (and I am asthmatic and it or other viruses therefore can be nastily serious for me).
But maybe they should (if you can medically have it).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Pruman wrote: |
Re medical claims - If you catch coronavirus in a ski resort, the symptoms won't appear until you get home (or maybe never). The BIG issue will be if an outbreak causes cancellation and curtailments - highly likely and both almost uninsurable now for anything pandemic related. |
Not really- you could have been exposed in the UK / at home and then develop symptoms abroad.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| If I show symptoms it's very likely I'll have enough time to make arrangements to travel home at short notice. |
Perhaps that isn't the best plan. Even if you were driving yourself it would be foolish, but 'making arrangements' suggests public transport / flying- I'd guess you wouldn't want to be sat next to / in the same plane as someone 'going home because they think they have COVID-19' Would you?
But I suppose all these queries and problems might hopefully be resolved if previous exposure makes you immune and an antibody test is developed which is widely available and reliable and or if it peters out as pandemics do.
It is all a bit miserable.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| Perhaps that isn't the best plan. Even if you were driving yourself it would be foolish, but 'making arrangements' suggests public transport / flying... |
For the rest of the year I think the only option I'd take for overseas travel would be to drive to my place in the French Alps.
What you seem to suggest is no overseas travel until the person has immunity, either from a vaccine or from previous infection. I think that's unsustainable and when we come out of lockdown I think it's not supported by the facts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@rob@rar, that would be our only journey too I think. I would also be taking Eurotunnel, and not getting out of the car during the crossing. This is what is happening on the trains now in any case, and I expect it will continue for some time.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @rob@rar, that would be our only journey too I think. I would also be taking Eurotunnel, and not getting out of the car during the crossing. This is what is happening on the trains now in any case, and I expect it will continue for some time. |
Fairly easy to get from my place (and your's) back home while observing very good social distancing, if that was necessary. Not especially hopefully things will have opened up sufficiently by then, so Plan C is to stay at home and keep my fingers crossed we can spend some time with family and friends by then.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ed123 wrote: |
| Perhaps that isn't the best plan. Even if you were driving yourself it would be foolish, but 'making arrangements' suggests public transport / flying... |
For the rest of the year I think the only option I'd take for overseas travel would be to drive to my place in the French Alps.
What you seem to suggest is no overseas travel until the person has immunity, either from a vaccine or from previous infection. I think that's unsustainable and when we come out of lockdown I think it's not supported by the facts. |
Hi- that's not quite what I've said actually. Hopefully it will peter out / there will be much better information regards prevalence / your own personal risk. I think you are wrong to assume that if you get ill you can get back. There will be issues with reciprocal health care. The issue is that you will be taking an uninsured / uninsurable risk about a hazard that currently has quite a high frequency (but hopefully this will markedly reduce) and whilst most infections are not so serious some really really are with the current mortality for cases needing hospital admission being about 50% (in the short term- i.e. survival to discharge and unknown risks regards longer term health) with medical care costing (potentially) in the hundreds of thousands of pounds in the UK Europe and much more in the US.
I'd hope that the hazard reduces and that the severity also reduces (what usually happens is that viruses that kill their hosts too much are selected for less virulence).
Perhaps my own personal attitude is coloured by the experience of my friends and colleagues- who are busy in ICUs intubating, turning and managing lots of people (including some previously fit and well and a good few in their 50's) most of whom either die or can't be extubated successfully ( they work in hospitals with deprived catchments and with much worse mortalities than is average). Also my trip to work involves driving past my kids school where one of the dads ( a man very much like me - in his late 50's, 4 boys, three still at school and one a medical student) recently died after some time in the ICU at the hospital my wife works at- he was one of the surgeons there. Another of her colleagues remains intubated- it makes it much more real.
But also- which facts?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Back on topic- MPI brokers offer great insurance. Not had to claim- but they offer a policy I want (unlike most other places) at a price I'm happy to pay (unlike the few places that offer the cover I want). Good job MPI!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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As for our family holiday plans- hopefully there will be an antibody test- we strongly suspect that the 5 of us have had 'it'. It has not been completely benign. I just had aches and pains, but the rest had fever, cough, fatigue. The youngest was ill with a fever for 3 weeks and is still fatigued- he ended up in the children's hospital for 7-9 hrs and may have had the kawasaki type syndrome, eldest still fatigued, middle child has a resting pulse of 100 and up to 130 just going up the stairs.
If there is an antibody test then I wonder if previous exposure might reduce premiums / allow cover in the unlikely event you get it again (if that is actually an unlikely event).
So assuming we all recover fully I'd expect to ski.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rob@rar, I'm not saying no international travel at all- just that there will be what is currently a significant risk of something really quite bad- that you won't be able to insure against and that I don't think that your contingency plan is that reliable.
That's totally different from me saying that you (or anyone else) shouldn't do it.
Every now and then I still take risks for which my contingency plan is not bombproof and for which the consequences would be bad (but not very often at all). I used to take these sorts of risks most weekends.
I'm all in favour of 'winging it', but it is best if you are clear about it in your own head. The insurance wonks clearly think it is not worth their while to cover this. That does say something. They are quite often very eager o suddenly offer cover for salinet high severity but very very low frequency issues (like flights being cancelled due to volcanoes) - but they aren't for this. I'm not absolutely sure how long it took for the 1918-1919 pandemic to go- but here is a clue in the name.
When this is all gone then either the insurers will decide that they don't want to cover pandemics (no matter that they have been around forever and have been a latent risk since insurance began / the origin of human kind) or they will decide that it is a nice little earner as an add on.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| @rob@rar, I'm not saying no international travel at all- just that there will be what is currently a significant risk of something really quite bad- |
Have to say that I don't think it is a significant risk of something really quite bad, if my plan is to drive to an apartment in the Alps (assuming that such travel is allowed). My social distancing there would be no more difficult than it is here in London, and probably much easier to achieve. I don't believe that either of us would be suddenly debilitated by getting Covid, so returning home would not be an issue. We could ensure social distancing on the return journey quite effectively. I don't think the risks are significantly different from driving to the Alps for a ski trip. A balance needs to be found as we go forwards, and I don't think it is best served by staying home just in case.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Hells Bells wrote: |
| @rob@rar, that would be our only journey too I think. I would also be taking Eurotunnel, and not getting out of the car during the crossing. This is what is happening on the trains now in any case, and I expect it will continue for some time. |
Fairly easy to get from my place (and your's) back home while observing very good social distancing, if that was necessary. Not especially hopefully things will have opened up sufficiently by then, so Plan C is to stay at home and keep my fingers crossed we can spend some time with family and friends by then. |
We broke our journey home in Troyes. Stayed in a place we had stayed before, they are all apartments so no contact with anyone else, although I think we were the only ones staying. Staff rang us tp arrange a time to let us in. Have to say they were excellent and even offered us breakfast if we went and bought our own bread etc, but we declined as we had coffee tea and milk in our cool box. We ordered a pizza for dinner via Deliveroo which arrived by bicycle in about 15 minutes. Unusually we booked a flexiplus Eurotunnel, as when we tried to move our journey on the website, we could only upgrade. Expensive, but we got sandwiches, snacks, drinks which meant we just went straight on and off the train with no need to stop anywhere.
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| ed123 wrote: |
| I'm not absolutely sure how long it took for the 1918-1919 pandemic to go- but here is a clue in the name.... |
What, "The Spanish 'Flu"? Ha ha. It wasn't of course Spanish either.
Allegedly [wikipedia] there was a "very minor" 4th wave in 2020.
I'm sure you're correct in that it's not going to be gone particularly quickly. The effects of it will likely outlive many of us.
| RobRar wrote: |
| Have to say that I don't think it is a significant risk of something really quite bad |
Well yes.
However on this site, risk discussion invariably ends up concluding that everyone's safest staying home in bed whilst wearing a helmet (and now a mask too).
I think that the risk is significantly less than it was in March.
Now we know pretty much what the disease is, who it kills, the treatment scenarios, and the likely timescales (long - as ed123's point).
The insurance business is quite reasonably unable currently to quantify the risks, but for an individual the situation's different.
It seems to me that if you can (a) legally do it; and (b) reasonably quantify the possible down-side costs; (c) afford them, then it's there for the taking.
The trick I think is going to be threading the needle between various national restrictions, wave timings, and resort policies across the world.
It's a shame we're not in the EU, but even so France or maybe Sweden may be the easiest places as the logistics are simplest.
Iceland may be even better - small and uncrowded, although it all depends on their attitude to visitors.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| We broke our journey home in Troyes. |
For us, 12 hours door to door so no need to break the journey. One fuel stop, paying by card at the pump; toilet stops in Aires rather than full service stations, to avoid other people; Eurotunnel check-in at a self-service booth; the rest of the time stay in the car. Minimises contact with other people, and probably less risk to others than asymptomatic travel on London Transport. For that trip I'd happy to self-insure with respect to getting infected by Covid.
The world we are going to live in for the next few years will not be about seeking zero risk, but managing risk to acceptable levels. That managed risk will not have just Covid-19 as the only factor to balance. In the meantime I'm following a very strict social distancing regime, only leaving the house once or twice a week to buy groceries, even though the King's College symptom tracker team estimate that in my part of the London the current infection rate is 0.5% of the population.
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| philwig wrote: |
| However on this site, risk discussion invariably ends up concluding that everyone's safest staying home in bed whilst wearing a helmet (and now a mask too). |
Not just here on snowHeads, but the wider public too.
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FAQ
