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Ski Club of Great Britain Chief Exec resigns

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It seems to me @Gerry is a bit conflicted. He sees himself as a self appointed SCGB superhero on sHs quoshing all the bedwetters who say a bad word against his beloved organisation. At the same time he's tried to reinvent himself as a kickass fighter of corruption within the SCGB's own walls.

Those 2 roles inevitably come into conflict. It's not entirely clear to me whether as a working class hero he'd like to smash the power structures and rebuild or is ultimately content with more of the same. For every bit of maturity he demonstrates he then undermines by reverting to old aggression.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Dave of the Marmottes, seems like a refreshingly human response to me. A bit like calling your spouse a complete tw@t and then getting offended when a stranger does the same.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Riccardo, yep - fair enough but he might win more friends by being a bit more of the advocate of change on both sides of the wall.
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Oh no - they don't let humans in here do they? Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Gerry does seem human at times.

Less so at others. I don't think he is any different on this thread as on the Brexit and other threads.

He's a bit edgy.

Maybe some people think the same about me, I don't know.

I guess it has more significance on this thread because he's directly involved with the organisation.
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Quote:
...
reverting to old aggression.



Red pill 'roid rage?

(Wonderful on posh members or any members for that matter Madeye-Smiley )
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Snowheads has had 16 years to trash the SCGB and that is plenty enough time.

I've seen forums trashed in months, though it usually took some bad stuff happening inside them as well.

Once it starts, it's very hard to stop.

Plus I think the SCGB massively underestimated the power of social media. They should have kept their forum going actively. That is the public face of the organisation after all, even if only say 1/3 ever visit (a fairly normal % for an organisation membership of mostly in the 50+ demographic). They should also have promoted themselves on FB. The young are deserting FB for Twatter etc but the young are mostly skint anyway.

I met some SCGB group in Italy in January. They were deadly serious. "We are going OFF PISTE". But they were polite. I would not want to meet the main players on SH on a ski trip Wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Peter Stevens wrote:
I would not want to meet the main players on SH on a ski trip Wink


I take it you've never been on a snowHeads Bash then?
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Alastair Pink wrote:
Peter Stevens wrote:
I would not want to meet the main players on SH on a ski trip Wink


I take it you've never been on a snowHeads Bash then?


Shhh!
What goes on tour, stays on tour!! snowHead
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I haven’t been on a bash but the SHs that I have met in real life have been polite.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Alastair Pink wrote:
Peter Stevens wrote:
I would not want to meet the main players on SH on a ski trip Wink


I take it you've never been on a snowHeads Bash then?


Think Wicker Man with a dash of Straw Dogs and he won't be far wrong wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Gerry wrote:

He [ex-CEO of SCGB Ian Holt] was getting 120k and pension contribution. Total cost to the Club after employer’s IN was probably getting close to 200k. I don’t have a single good word to say about Holt.


Gerry wrote:
Some of what’s happened is utterly incredible.


Pruman wrote:

Yes, you mean like a Director of SCGB revealing publicly the CEO's salary package - unless there is an agreement that says it's ok to do that, you may find you have breached any salary confidentiality clause in the CEO's contract of employment.


Gerry wrote:

His salary was already in the public domain as of last October.


Davina Goldballs wrote:

Really? That makes me 8 months late with the story!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/2500016913434514/

What exactly was said? And where?


Gerry wrote:

Do you want quotes and the phone numbers of the people being quoted so you can ring them and check?


Obviously not. If something's in the public domain one obviously doesn't enter the private domain to check that it exists.
Just point us to where in the public domain Ian Holt's salary was divulged last October.

Gerry wrote:

The quote below is as recent as a few days ago in this thread.

Pruman wrote:
SCGB has a turnover less than one average David Lloyd Club yet according to an ex-Director on another forum it has lost £2.5m over two years and the CEO's package was £200k. £2.5m represents over £100k a month LOSS.


Presumably Pruman is a SCGB member, and picked up some tittle-tattle. What he wrote was of little significance, since it didn't come from an official source.
You're a director - and an official voice of the SCGB - so you have a totally different status as a source. That's why I quoted you.

Repeat question: where, last October, was Ian Holt's salary disclosed?

ster wrote:
@Davina Goldballs, your Facebook link above is broken?


Maybe someone didn't want you to use it. A zero was removed from the URL, which broke it. This is the correct link (1st line), followed by the tampered link (2nd line):

https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/2500016913434514/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/250016913434514/
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Of course we can also thank these brave sHs for their own deep cover operation which truly lifted the lid on the SCGB/sH rivalry

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2398545&highlight=scgb+hemel#2398545
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Dave of the Marmottes, Sometimes this thread is like Unionists and Republicans in NI arguing about the Battle of the Boyne like it took place a week ago last Tuesday

Resurrecting this ancient history seems pointless, even for those furloughed on a wet afternoon in June

Many of us have had a minor spat with Gerry on here but on this thread he has been very candid and straight. Many people are neutral to the SCGB, many have a foot in both camps and a few persist in trying to score cheap points

SH and SCGB membership are by and large passionate about skiing - live and let live. Less of the Judea Popular Front Vs the Popular Front for Judea, except Goldballs of course who is not the Messiah but a very naughty boy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@On the rocks, think you are rather missing the point of the thread I linked -which in a light hearted way identified that we have much more in common than that wot divides us.

I actually would like to see the SCGB survive not least because I might want to become a member and ski with it as I age in to their core demographic (and provided it is an attractive enough offering) - but I'm not actually holding out that much hope looking at the trajectory. Surely we are all potential customers for it, given we're keen on skiing and spend an above average amount on it? Or does Freshtracks have a strict no bedwetters policy?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Davina Goldballs wrote:
Presumably Pruman is a SCGB member, and picked up some tittle-tattle. What he wrote was of little significance, since it didn't come from an official source.


Well, if you met me you'd realise I'm not much of a tittle or tattle merchant. The 'source', if you care to read back, was a Board Director who was recently invited to leave and he was commenting on the Club forum. He said:

Quote:
Many of us feel strongly that openness and accountability are core to a good club, and good governance essential to avoid us carrying on the disastrous road we are on. It is notable and a great pity that we seem to be in much the same position on these important issues as last year. Of course Trevor is not well placed to provide an 'independent' report having forced me off Council precisely because I asked questions he did not want to answer. On the specific subject of this thread (CEO) - having waited for an open communication which has not been forthcoming let me share a little of what I know. The CEO's appointment, salary and compensation package cost the club some £200,000. Far more expensive to the Club has been his failure as Treasurer and then CEO to provide effective management of club finances, we have lost some £2.5M over the last two years. We urgently need an effective Council and Chair who can not only provide effective oversight, but can also lead the club back to serving its members, particularly on snow.


He then went on to make some comments on this thread. He was in a position to know. But the numbers will come out in due course and we can dissect them then.

Frankly, the promised report from the interim Chairman should either be published right now or a reason given why not.

Some intriguing comments on that Facebook thing:

The aforementioned Snowcrazy Chris writes: "I am just wondering. When the Eaton Sq property wss sold. Does anyone know which company managed that sale? Also how many of those around then working for SCGB or on the Board were also in post when the White House was sold? Thanks for any help about this." And he gets a reply: "I see where you're coming from on this...good attempt at joining u the dots"

Is that a suggestion that the sale of the building wasn't conducted in a clean way?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Or does Freshtracks have a strict no bedwetters policy?


Quite the contrary I imagine Laughing

I say, keep up with the base tribalism and continue taking the pish (or should that be posh?) out of each other!
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Of course we can also thank these brave sHs for their own deep cover operation which truly lifted the lid on the SCGB/sH rivalry
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2398545&highlight=scgb+hemel#2398545
That's absolutely excellent - thanks.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Of course we can also thank these brave sHs for their own deep cover operation which truly lifted the lid on the SCGB/sH rivalry

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2398545&highlight=scgb+hemel#2398545

... but slightly alarming that apparently @hamilton's wife never returned from her overseas mission! Sad
ski holidays
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Pruman wrote:
Davina Goldballs wrote:
Presumably Pruman is a SCGB member, and picked up some tittle-tattle. What he wrote was of little significance, since it didn't come from an official source.


Well, if you met me you'd realise I'm not much of a tittle or tattle merchant. The 'source', if you care to read back, was a Board Director who was recently invited to leave and he was commenting on the Club forum. He said:

Quote:
Many of us feel strongly that openness and accountability are core to a good club, and good governance essential to avoid us carrying on the disastrous road we are on. It is notable and a great pity that we seem to be in much the same position on these important issues as last year. Of course Trevor is not well placed to provide an 'independent' report having forced me off Council precisely because I asked questions he did not want to answer. On the specific subject of this thread (CEO) - having waited for an open communication which has not been forthcoming let me share a little of what I know. The CEO's appointment, salary and compensation package cost the club some £200,000. Far more expensive to the Club has been his failure as Treasurer and then CEO to provide effective management of club finances, we have lost some £2.5M over the last two years. We urgently need an effective Council and Chair who can not only provide effective oversight, but can also lead the club back to serving its members, particularly on snow.


He then went on to make some comments on this thread. He was in a position to know. But the numbers will come out in due course and we can dissect them then.

Frankly, the promised report from the interim Chairman should either be published right now or a reason given why not.

Some intriguing comments on that Facebook thing:

The aforementioned Snowcrazy Chris writes: "I am just wondering. When the Eaton Sq property wss sold. Does anyone know which company managed that sale? Also how many of those around then working for SCGB or on the Board were also in post when the White House was sold? Thanks for any help about this." And he gets a reply: "I see where you're coming from on this...good attempt at joining u the dots"

Is that a suggestion that the sale of the building wasn't conducted in a clean way?


There's one Council member now who was on Council when Eaton Sq was sold but they didn't want it sold and they also did n't want the White House sold either. There are no members of staff left who were involved, obviously. Snowcrazy has his own personal reasons for not being all that fond of the SCGB.
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Davina Goldballs wrote:

Pruman wrote:

Yes, you mean like a Director of SCGB revealing publicly the CEO's salary package - unless there is an agreement that says it's ok to do that, you may find you have breached any salary confidentiality clause in the CEO's contract of employment.


Gerry wrote:

His salary was already in the public domain as of last October.


Davina Goldballs wrote:

Really? That makes me 8 months late with the story!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/325182624251298/permalink/2500016913434514/

What exactly was said? And where?


Gerry wrote:

Do you want quotes and the phone numbers of the people being quoted so you can ring them and check?


Obviously not. If something's in the public domain one obviously doesn't enter the private domain to check that it exists.
Just point us to where in the public domain Ian Holt's salary was divulged last October.



I found out in October via a leak and *I* spilled the beans publicly (as did others) shortly after that. In case you don't know, October falls before November in the Gregorian calendar and I wasn't elected until November.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
quote="Gerry"]He [ex-CEO of SCGB Ian Holt] was getting 120k and pension contribution. Total cost to the Club after employer’s IN was probably getting close to 200k.[/quote]

Davina Goldballs wrote:
What exactly was said? And where?


Gerry wrote:
Do you want quotes and the phone numbers of the people being quoted so you can ring them and check?


Davina Goldballs wrote:
Obviously not. If something's in the public domain one obviously doesn't enter the private domain to check that it exists.
Just point us to where in the public domain Ian Holt's salary was divulged last October.


Gerry wrote:
I found out in October via a leak and *I* spilled the beans publicly (as did others) shortly after that.


A leak from a director or someone in the finance/HR team at the SCGB? Who else would know? As Pruman has suggested, the CEO's salary would almost certainly be confidential internal information.
If ... as you state ... you spilled the information into the public domain last October ... at which time you were a prospective SCGB director ... we need to know where.

And before taking that action, you'd have wished to verify the information, given your candidature for council.

If the "last October" thing never happened, and is simply a smokescreen of your own smoking (you've presented no evidence of where in the public domain the information appeared last October) ...

... then the key issue could be Ian Holt's desire to have his salary information secret, and whether he's a litigious fellow, and whether the SCGB is exposed. On that score, given Holt's effusive descriptions of his vocational credentials, we'll probably learn more in due course.

However ... in a nutshell ... you've not clarified where, last October, you posted that information into the public domain. Is it still there - where?
If it isn't still there, and you were asked to take it down, then it's interesting that you re-posted the information a few days ago.

--------------------------------------------------------

Davina Goldballs wrote:
Presumably Pruman is a SCGB member, and picked up some tittle-tattle. What he wrote was of little significance, since it didn't come from an official source.


Pruman wrote:

Well, if you met me you'd realise I'm not much of a tittle or tattle merchant. The 'source', if you care to read back, was a Board Director who was recently invited to leave and he was commenting on the Club forum.


You're quite right, and I'm a bit of a tit(tle) for suggesting otherwise. What you posted was hardly likely to be tat(tle) because - as you say - it came from an ex-director of the SCGB (Tom Jarman) whose exact words - on 5 June on the SCGB's members' forum - were:

Tom Jarman wrote:
The CEO's appointment, salary and compensation package cost the club some £200,000.


He'd have been a fool to make up that sort of information, obviously. As far as I can make out, that was the first semi-official (since Jarman had left the board) reference to the CEO's salary, but it wasn't in the public domain.

But, back to you, Gerry, because you're a serving director. What exactly happened last October? And do you reckon (we'll understand if you don't want to answer this one) the SCGB is legally exposed for breach of confidentiality? Or is Holt in a glass chalet?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Davina Goldballs, I was one of four alternative candidates and as such the will of the Chairman and his CEO at the time was to keep myself and Tom Jarman out. Obviously not everyone approved of this strategy and we both received emails from various whistleblowers. I was appalled by the salary figure and thought it important that members knew about it.

That's all you need to know about that.
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The remuneration of the CEO should be reported to members as a matter of routine.
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@Davina Goldballs, I like the way @Pruman, writings go from "of little significance" to being used to support your point.
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Since i understand scgb is a company directors remuneration does eventually get disclosed in the accounts in aggregate, the highest paid and others in bands.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@countryman, I’m not sure that’s correct for the small companies regime under which SCGB files. I think smallco regime absolves you of the director remuneration requirements.

In my relatively limited experience, it is normal for severance agreements to include clauses limiting all parties from making negative comments or disclosing any sensitive information about each other. I hope next year’s exceptional item isn’t a legal bill of similar scale to the website development.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The accounts filed at Companies House show only the aggregate figure for all employees combined (£1.2m for the year to 30/04/2019, across 32 employees)
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@snowdave, there is no legal agreement in existence that bars me, or any other Director of the Ski Club, from criticising Holt.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Gerry wrote:
@snowdave, there is no legal agreement in existence that bars me, or any other Director of the Ski Club, from criticising Holt.


I would agree with that but divulging the salary package of a private individual isn't a criticism, it's probably a breach of the terms of his executive service agreement, you being a main board director and the responsibilities that go along with that**. These days most exec service agreements for a non-public company would have a confidentiality clause. Whether you did it in October or not, prior to being elected, you certainly did it in full view on this forum just the other day. I don't believe the £120k + pension contribution part was 'public domain' before you mentioned it.

** that's why I think volunteers shouldn't ever be burdened with directorships. And people with no training or experience in how to act as a Director should definitely not be doing it.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Pruman wrote:
Gerry wrote:
@snowdave, there is no legal agreement in existence that bars me, or any other Director of the Ski Club, from criticising Holt.


I would agree with that but divulging the salary package of a private individual isn't a criticism, it's probably a breach of the terms of his executive service agreement,


Which I have a copy of and it isn't, so you're wrong and that's the end of the factual part of the discussion.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Leaving aside Goldsmith's total failure to focus on the important point in this, seems to me members should be backing @gerry to put pressure on Campbell Davis to release the full report ASAP.

Secondly what a shambles that members of council were denied answers to questions they had asked and forced out as a result. Nothing smacks so much of a cozy clique circling the wagons as pushing out outsiders who have got into the inner sanctum. Feels like a few too many people still around who were stood too close to the flames.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There is an assumption that Directors have a duty to be confidential, and something like the CEO's salary is bound to be confidential. This is wrong. Directors have a duty to the Club, and this means its members. If sharing information would compromise the club then they shouldn't do it, but otherwise openness is what is wanted and expected by members. Indeed it essential if members able to have an effective say in their club.
In fact the code of conduct for Directors and governance of the Club make it very clear that openness is a core principle.
The CEO's salary's should not and need not be confidential, and you have obligations to disclose to shareholders. It is a major cost to the Club so is of course reflected in the accounts, in the SCGB's case it has been somewhat ‘obscure’, but need not be. In a club answerable to its members it is very important (in my view) that this is open, members can then have a say if they feel we spend too much on overheads and not enough on member services. Spoiler alert – the Club does. We spend much to much on overheads, which means that members are paying too much for too little. Over £250k per annum in costs on the top two execs, similar amount on rent of an over large and over expensive office, needless spend awards dinner sponsorship, expenses which are difficult to justify etc. We should have lower membership fees, and offer more on snow services for members, this needs less overheads.
To be clear this is my view, however and here is the key point: I was elected with that view and I made it clear to members what I stood for. A representative Council with the ability to hold the club to account is how a democratic Club can serve its members, rather than serving its executive or the egos at top table.
We all understand that Council and the Chairman need to work for the Club and members. Sharing information with members, provided it does not compromise the club, is not 'whistle blowing' - it is fundamental to ensuring the club has good governance and operates properly. Otherwise you get, eg, a CEO irresponsibly wasting members money without normal controls, a Chairman who makes bad decisions without proper reference to Council, elections rigged to get a compliant Council, a Council who fails to provide effective oversight and feels it does not have the power to stop harmful actions if they come from the Chairman. In our Club case this has led to huge losses and failures in member services (eg leading) ... and you then get a tendency for those involved to want to hide anything which reflects badly on them. This undermines an effective club answerable to its members.
... when this occurs people leave the club, and may set up alternatives which do work for them - Snowheads is a great example of this. However I am one of those that believes that the SCGB can and should be a club we all want to be members of, that is why I stood for Council, and why I am appalled that the new (non-elected) Chairman insisted I was removed so he could have free reign. I was elected by members, in part to help provide the openness and accountability they rightly expect, there is no way that the Chairman (or Council) should be undermining this.
Be gentle on me please, it is not easy being one prepared to speak out.
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@pisteoff, oh well history will probably remember you as being right even if the hierarchy are doing their best to keep the wool pulled down firmly over the members.....
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Gerry wrote:
Pruman wrote:
Gerry wrote:
@snowdave, there is no legal agreement in existence that bars me, or any other Director of the Ski Club, from criticising Holt.


I would agree with that but divulging the salary package of a private individual isn't a criticism, it's probably a breach of the terms of his executive service agreement,


Which I have a copy of and it isn't, so you're wrong and that's the end of the factual part of the discussion.


Sorry Gerry but no, it isn’t, because the FACT is that you as a Director have breached GDPR by revealing sensitive data about an employee (ex or otherwise) who has been identified by name. I'm pretty sure someone's salary package would be deemed to be sensitive data by the ICO - it is mandatory to report such a data breach to the ICO within 72 hours of becoming aware of it, and by my calc you are beyond that. Does SCGB even have a Data Protection Officer? It's not compulsory but someone surely assumes that role? Penalty for a data breach can be 4% of annual turnover. I'll let you work that one out.

You say you have a copy of his executive service agreement - again, from a GDPR perspective, how and where is that stored? Why do YOU need to hold a copy of it? How many other directors or staff have a copy of it and why? What other data are you holding personally? How safe is Members’ personal data? And other great questions you will struggle to answer when the ICO ask.

pisteoff wrote:
There is an assumption that Directors have a duty to be confidential, and something like the CEO's salary is bound to be confidential. This is wrong.


I think I may have covered it above. It's not wrong, just like anyone else the ex-CEO is entitled to confidentiality unless he had an agreement with the club that expressly allowed otherwise. It’s not on the FTSE, it’s a small enterprise.

pisteoff wrote:
I am appalled that the new (non-elected) Chairman insisted I was removed so he could have free reign. I was elected by members, in part to help provide the openness and accountability they rightly expect, there is no way that the Chairman (or Council) should be undermining this.


So the unelected Interim Chairman ousts an elected Council Member. AKA ‘a coup’. The same Interim Chairman promised a report which appears to be about 6 weeks late so far. The board he is Chairman of hasn't managed to publish the AGM minutes over half a year since the AGM. It all makes one wonder just how deep the problems go.

What’s actually needed is an immediate set of draft accounts for the financial year just ended and projections for the rest of this year. Members should see all that along with the Interim Chairman’s long-awaited report. There should be an EGM - virtual. Elect a new Chairman or ratify this one.

Well done pisteoff for speaking out. It isn’t the easy path.
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Pruman wrote:
Gerry wrote:
Pruman wrote:
Gerry wrote:
@snowdave, there is no legal agreement in existence that bars me, or any other Director of the Ski Club, from criticising Holt.


I would agree with that but divulging the salary package of a private individual isn't a criticism, it's probably a breach of the terms of his executive service agreement,


Which I have a copy of and it isn't, so you're wrong and that's the end of the factual part of the discussion.


Sorry Gerry but no, it isn’t, because the FACT is that you as a Director have breached GDPR by revealing sensitive data about an employee (ex or otherwise) who has been identified by name.



This information was already very common knowledge. You even knew about it and posted the same information before I said anything. That data stopped being sensitive months ago when it was released to thousands of people. The figure was even confirmed at the AGM. Members had a right to know where their money was being wasted.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Pruman wrote:

So the unelected Interim Chairman ousts an elected Council Member. AKA ‘a coup’.


Complete rubbish. Tom's problem is that if he can't have everything his own way then he throws a tantrum. Every single member of that board ended up being fed up with his rants and tantrums so he had to go. Our interim Chair has very fair requirements of the other board member, which can be condensed down to 1) play with a straight bat and 2) be respectful to each other.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gerry wrote:
... if he can't have everything his own way then he throws a tantrum. ....
He seems very reasonable here. It's not like he's calling people rude names or anything.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@philwig, +1, he seemed incredibly balanced and interested in the sport and the community.

I thought he and @Gerry were supporting each other in trying to change/improve things, but the post above from Gerry isn't particularly supportive!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
snowdave wrote:
@philwig, +1, he seemed incredibly balanced and interested in the sport and the community.

I thought he and @Gerry were supporting each other in trying to change/improve things, but the post above from Gerry isn't particularly supportive!


How can I support someone who, once a decision has been made that’s not to his exact liking, will not move on? It amounts to a form of bullying. It’s trying to influence a group’s direction through the threat of abusive behaviour. The sad thing is that we all basically agree on the general way forward.
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