 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm curious to know whether, contrary to TT's original assertion, it was in fact possible to withdraw the application and that it was in fact withdrawn. It was so obvious, right from the start, that establishing the existence of the right and then gently but firmly insisting on its exercise would be the smoothest way forward. (Sorry for the doubles entendres, I seem to have strayed out of the bar.)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
| whether...it was in fact possible to withdraw the application and that it was in fact withdrawn |
Looks like the application lapsed due to non payment of 2nd fee
| Quote: |
List of events
Date
11 October 2021
Type
Automatic withdrawal of application
Text
Application withdrawn as second fee payment was not made
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| A happy conclusion for SH but a PR disaster for SC(tm)GB. |
I doubt it will make much, if any difference to their membership numbers; which might even tick up a notch for the management’s entrepreneurial agility and business acumen. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@geoffers, ah, thanks. So withdrawn, but not necessarily by Ski Club.I should have read on. Odd use of language, really: one would expect withdrawal of an application to be by the applicant.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely. |
Yes, I thought that
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I understand the application was made under the "Right Start Examination Service".
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm3-servicesfees
Hence it is, in effect, 'passively withdrawn' by not completing the payment.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely. |
Yes, I thought that |
Objection m’lud!
I’m surprised and shocked that anyone would question the veracity and integrity of a senior member of staff at the SCGB!
I wonder how such unwarranted and scurrilous accusations would be treated at a reputable institution?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely. |
I don't think he claimed he had never seen the snowHeads forum just that he lacked the cognitive ability, due dilligence skills and general nous to identify it as something which could conceivably not belong to the SCGB. Which given his CV suggests a traumatic cognitive decline or perhaps something else?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
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due dilligence skills …
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That sort of dirty work is usually outsourced to mere peons; one might call them a Due Dillinger Gang perhaps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely. |
You need to read what he actually said, from the FB Group:
| SCGB Ltd director Tony Harris wrote: |
... My error I am afraid. I'm a new non-exec at the Ski Club and I have been doing a lot of work tidying up the Ski Club trademarks and trademark registrations.
You use 'Ski Club' a lot on your forum so I had assumed it was a Ski Club thing and applied for the registration. ... |
As you can see he specifically admits being aware of the forum, they didn't run that as an excuse.
--
Old [moderator - name edited to snowheads username] Gerry has recently turned up in that very same FB group.
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@philwig,
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he specifically admits being aware of the forum
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In which case @Dave of the Marmottes provides the explanation(s) for us! Si non e vero...and all that.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| It occurs to me that the unusual but correct spelling, in the first application, of snowHeads, as one word with a capital letter in the middle, indicates that his alleged ignorance of this forum is unlikely. |
They actually had 6 separate versions of snowhead/snowheads trademark registered at the same time, one could of course conclude that this was a sensible approach and not at all an attempt to cover all the bases for our mostly friendly forum and @admin and his followers.
One could also conclude that princess di is buried on the island at the Althorpe estate, but as everyone local knows she's actually in the family grave in Brington church.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Nope, moon, next to Elvis
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ansta1 wrote: |
| They actually had 6 separate versions of snowhead/snowheads trademark registered at the same time |
That is officially mental. Seriously barking. When you trademark a word (sometimes referred to as a wordmark) it is simply standard character format without regard to the font, style, size or colour. In other words, sNoWHeADs is exactly the same as snowHeads. And then you can do another trademark application for the logo style. I'd love to meet Trademark Tony.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Nope, moon, next to Elvis |
I think her big problem was not being reptilian.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| Not sure I would feel that sympathetic for the plight of the landlord of swanky offices in Wimbledon, they can cope. |
On that basis, why do I bother pay my mortgage/utilities/tax/rates/NI/TV etc? I mean, they can all cope. Grown up businesses don't think like that. You sign an office lease with your eyes open and honour the contract.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| a once great club. |
When? Seriously, when? What does greatness mean? The UK ski biz seems to be world champs at kidology - eg even mere ski instructors are called legends or gurus. The club has always been insignificant, miniscule in comparison to the size of the market, yet for some reason preoccupied with projecting an image of expertise and lofty industry status - always paid for by members who don't actually mind it being 'not great' and just want to go for a quiet ski with some like-minded individuals. Someone like Crystal Holidays turns over in a week what the club manages in a year.
If the club wants to be great, my advice would be to start from the beginning with a total rethink, be inclusive and reach out to all corners, create something everyone feels like buying into, something that grows the market rather than leaches off it. But, waste of breath, that won't happen.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
…
start from the beginning with a total rethink, be inclusive and reach out…
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We all know s/he is waiting for THE phone call.
DG goes where Angels fear to tread!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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DG goes where Angels fear to tread!
Isn't he too busy trying to grass up Snowheads on whether their bus is taxed or not ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| eblunt wrote: |
DG goes where Angels fear to tread!
Isn't he too busy trying to grass up Snowheads on whether their bus is taxed or not ? |
The bus that said we would send 350 million snowHeads to Europe next season ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Chairman writes:
| Quote: |
15 October 2021
Good Afternoon,
I last wrote to you in May, shortly before more than 200 members joined us for a live SCGB catch-up on Zoom. Five months later, there is news to share as we approach the start of the new snow season. And I have a personal request for your help, please, which I explain below.
After last year’s cancellations, the picture now looks very different. As travel and resort restrictions are lifted, members’ holiday bookings are coming in quickly, with many of our early season trips close to full and numbers for the months after Christmas already high. So, if you haven’t yet booked, please do go online or call the team. Our well-regarded COVID-19 refund guarantee of course remains in place.
I am pleased to tell you that the turnaround in our financial health continues to be satisfactory. After losses exceeding £2m (the subject of my report to members in August 2020), the Club made a net profit of £309,000 in the year to 30 April 2021. This was the result of much hard work by the smaller team of staff, reducing overheads and limiting operating losses, and the satisfactory performance of the Club’s investments. The value of the Club’s reserves increased for the first time in years. You can find the Club’s audited 2021 accounts on our website.
When I wrote in May, I said that we would try to negotiate a surrender of the lease of our expensive (£220,000 pa) offices at Connect House in Wimbledon. Although costly, a successful surrender would yield substantial savings over the remaining years of the lease. I am pleased to report that we reached agreement to terminate our tenancy at the end of last month and that the Club has now moved to smaller and more suitable accommodation at Kennington Park, close to the Oval in south London.
Our staff, reduced in number from 2020, have been brilliant in dealing with the combined effects of lockdown, working from home, no 2020/21 snow season and recently moving office. We owe all of them, included those who have now left the Club, our gratitude and thanks as we go forward into what we hope will be a busy winter.
My main reason for writing is to ask for your help with the future running of our Club. You may recall that we have extended the range of skills on Council, the board of directors which runs the SCGB. We were successful last year in finding new directors with suitable experience. We wish to do the same this year.
The Club’s AGM is on 25 November and will again be run live on Zoom, following last year’s successful meeting. We hope this year to elect two new members of Council, in addition to the Treasurer and Chairman. We intend also to co-opt up to three additional members with particular skills.
Joanna Percy retires this year from Council at the end of her term and we thank her for her many years of service to the Club. I have no doubt that Jo will continue to contribute to our future in other ways.
Although John Simpson will retire in November after a busy year as our Treasurer, Council intends to co-opt John as a member for next year, helping to ensure continuity of financial knowledge with his successor.
We are therefore looking for a keen qualified accountant to join Council as Treasurer, with time available to assist and advise the finance manager employed by the Club. The position will be similar to that of a non-executive finance director. This is an important appointment and I would be happy to hear (at tcd@skiclub.co.uk) from any member who might be interested in helping us. Please get in touch and I will arrange for a telephone chat about what is involved.
You will also recall that Angus Maciver, elected to Council as Treasurer in November 2019, was invited by the board in early 2020 to take up the interim role of General Manager. I worked closely with Angus throughout last year and can tell you that he contributed greatly to our present financial and operational stability. When Angus stood down as General Manager at the end of 2020, we immediately co-opted him back to Council, where his contribution has continued to be invaluable. Angus will stand formally for re-election at this AGM.
Our work over the past 20 months has required continual reassessment of the risks involved in running the Club, both financial and related to the pandemic. Although our position has stabilised, the risks have not gone away. Some are external (such as new travel restrictions affecting holidays) and some are internal (avoiding cost increases disproportionate to our size and income). I believe that a key responsibility of the Chairman is to help Council maintain a focus on managing risk. With members’ agreement, I will therefore stand for re-election, staying if elected until our recent changes in staff and location have bedded in and members can be assured that income from the winter season is secure. I will then stand down and, if members are agreeable, pass the chair of Council to Angus Maciver for the remainder of 2022. I have discussed this proposal with my fellow members of Council, who have indicated their agreement, and I hope that you will agree that it reflects sensible succession planning. I will therefore ask members at the AGM for their consent to acknowledge Angus as vice-chairman.
Angus will continue to share his experience in support of James Gambrill, who joined us in May 2021 as the new SCGB General Manager. James has been closely involved in our office move and is now working with staff to complete the Club’s dynamic plans for the new season and beyond. These include extending our range of services to present and future members, on snow, online and here in the UK. I commend Angus, James and all our staff to you as an experienced and enthusiastic team able to take the Club forward while managing any continuing risks.
You may recall that early last year I expressed surprise that the SCGB did not have someone (either on Council or staff) who acted as Club Secretary, providing support to Council in planning meetings and helping to ensure that papers and information were available to the board. Angus and I endeavoured to fill this gap until James’s appointment in May. I believe that now is a good time to provide further support through a Council member with strong organisational skills. An eye for detail, with experience in a relevant discipline (perhaps administrative or legal) would be valuable.
Finally, we would this year also like to hear from any member with a background in human resources. This could include staff development as well as dealing with legal and contractual matters.
If you wish to consider either standing for election or to discuss a co-opted position, please get in touch with us before 29 October. You can do this either by contacting me (see above), or by emailing info@skiclub.co.uk with a copy of your CV and a personal statement telling us how you feel you could contribute. Details of applications from those wishing to be considered for election will be published to members and included in the elections held in November.
I look forward to hearing from you or seeing you at the AGM, and my best wishes for the coming season.
Trevor Campbell Davis
Chairman
Ski Club of Great Britain |
So, my takeaways so far are:
(1) The Club makes a surplus but the devil will be in the detail of the accounts. A surplus without having to operate much and not refunding membership subs either in part or fully, isn't a major business success IMO.
(2) The Chairman who was originally unelected, now wants to shoe-in his replacement seemingly without much of a process.
(3) Great to hear they have 'dynamic plans' I respectfully refer you to the events page on the website.
All other judgements reserved until publication of the report & accounts. 
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Yeah the get Maciver through on the nod cos he's a good chap and one of us doesn't speak of major changes in attitude.
And bragging about making a small profit in a year when they've given nada to members is a bit rich. How's the insurance looking for all those members' trips?
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| Quote: |
Finally, we would this year also like to hear from any member with a background in human resources. This could include staff development as well as dealing with legal and contractual matters.
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More for the chop then
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Step one was to get a control on finances, which has occurred, albeit the picture is far tougher than painted. However barely alive is hardly a thriving club - so I would also like to hear a bit of vision and direction. How will the club become forward and outward looking - how can it make itself relevant in todays world? How can it reverse the direction of travel towards a thriving, younger club? For me the focus on "grey suits" is wrong - sure control is needed, but to survive the Club has to make some dramatic changes. BTW I think Angus an excellent choice for next Chair, it will be interesting to see how bold he is prepared to be.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| And bragging about making a small profit in a year when they've given nada to members is a bit rich. |
Indeed. It doesn't look like a model to achieve sustainable net profit. The way that the net profit this year has been achieved is unlikely to happen next year, as you can't reduce the same overheads again, the staff have gone, there is no one left to lay off; same goes for the office costs.
Slash and burn has made a difference to the accounts this year, but where is the growth strategy and the roadmap to increase revenue; reducing your costs can only take you so far.
..Nick
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| musher wrote: |
| Quote: |
Finally, we would this year also like to hear from any member with a background in human resources. This could include staff development as well as dealing with legal and contractual matters.
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More for the chop then |
Or maybe handling the claims and tribunals from those who were let go?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I also think finding a non-exec FD volunteer is probably challenging. Anyone who can parse the numbers probably knows this is a managed shutdown and thus why would they spend energy and possibly reputation on it?
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| Quote: |
…Anyone who can parse the numbers probably knows this is a managed shutdown …
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Only to rise again, perhaps, like a Phenix from the flames….as SnowHeads 3.0 TM!?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Only to rise again, perhaps, like a Phenix from the flames….as SnowHeads 3.0 TM!?
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Well, that is the subject of a separate thread - which I would cross refer to if I knew how.
For SCGB - this thread - Council (and ultimately members) will need to decide whether it is enough to simply stabilise the ship and try to protect what remains of the once valuable cargo. I think not. "Grey suits" (eg middle aged white accountants) are not enough to create an again thriving club, and will much more likely stifle what needs to be done to create a go forward agenda - a bold vision and plan is needed. I think the target should be 50k+ members, average age in the 40's (so those in their 60's still very much welcome, but an approach which also appeals to the younger skiers looking for adventure and stretching their horizons. Again, if any SCGB Council members read this thread please do share - many of us here would love to see an again thriving Club. This forum is challenging, but not negative. That's a very healthy thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pisteoff, I think the problem with the SCGB is.......... what it needs to progress requires GB people working in Europe. That is now not an option for the numbers they need.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Their boss is encouraging their subscribers to buy next season's own-brand holiday products.
The subscription model sounds like a pretty hard sell when it comes to getting new package holiday business.
Perhaps in the past these were sold as up-market packages, but I'd guess that these days "up market" people don't use package operators at all.
I think SCGB Ltd will always lose to specialist travel companies who can amortise their costs with other
type of travel year-round, and who don't have the barrier of a subscription payment. And [moderator - name edited to snowheads username] Gerry, of course.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I think SCGB Ltd will always lose to specialist travel companies who can amortise their costs with other
type of travel year-round, and who don't have the barrier of a subscription payment.
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Agree - but SCGB is a Club which happens to offer holidays, not a TA who have a subscription model ... or rather it was. Central to the challenge for Council and members is whether to continue to put holiday company first, or to focus instead on membership and what a club would look like for a wider group. Freshtracks do offer good, if now quite expensive, holidays - however this is only relevant to a small proportion of members / target members. What would SCGB look like if it was relevant to a good number of the other British skiers? If the answer is something which once again does not have an in-house holiday company will Council dare to go there?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
What would SCGB look like if it was relevant to a good number of the other British skiers?
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Interesting question.
We need some heavyweight snow-based industry experts to get on the case. Can we think of any?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I haven't a clue what the SCGB needs to do, but the link up with Sunweb (who have attracted some terrible customer reviews) does not seem to help much.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jehu wrote: |
| I haven't a clue what the SCGB needs to do, |
Perhaps you should stand for council - you might fit right in 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
What would SCGB look like if it was relevant to a good number of the other British skiers?
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Honestly?
Scantily clad 20 year old club 18-30 reps organising drinking games, bar crawls and table dancing
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Tunez, jaegerbombz, fancy dress and raves with a bit of looking green on the mountain the next day. Plus a good singsong to Sweet Caroline.
Wonder if they'll co-opt a Council member in charge of shouting Oi-Oi and making everyone down their shots?
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@On the rocks, Remind me how to join? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pisteoff wrote: |
| Step one was to get a control on finances, which has occurred |
I'm quite certain, if anyone cares to get forensic, that it hasn't occurred, it's an artificial situation. When the best part of £1m comes in from membership subs, without having to provide much or anything in the way of member services, we could all show a nice turnaround. We know a deal was done with the landlord to pay a greatly reduced rent, we know the furlough scheme was utilised, we assume there were business rate rebates and possibly other covid-related relief. Investments performed better than expected. The issue comes when we are fully out of the pandemic and the taps have to be turned on fully again. The overhead will probably have to climb sharply before the profit shows up.
| pisteoff wrote: |
| I would also like to hear a bit of vision and direction. How will the club become forward and outward looking - how can it make itself relevant in todays world? How can it reverse the direction of travel towards a thriving, younger club? For me the focus on "grey suits" is wrong - sure control is needed, but to survive the Club has to make some dramatic changes. BTW I think Angus an excellent choice for next Chair, it will be interesting to see how bold he is prepared to be. |
I'm not sure but you appear to be arguing with yourself. There is an opportunity to throw the Chair position wide open, see who comes forward, see what plans/ideas people have, let the membership weigh up the options. What this inevitable coronation of Angus looks like is Kim Jong-un following on from Kim Jong-il. More sameness won't butter any parsnips here.
| Jehu wrote: |
| I haven't a clue what the SCGB needs to do, but the link up with Sunweb (who have attracted some terrible customer reviews) does not seem to help much. |
Yes, a strange decision, and it's what happens when you have to go chasing the advertising dollar to pay the bloated bills.
My thoughts on what they need to do are fairly easy to get across - close it and see what rises, if anything does, from the ashes. 1903 - 2021 is a good run but it's a dead parrot.
Allow me to proffer an example of how beyond saving they are - you probably had the same email as me inviting you to an 'exclusive' evening with someone most have never heard of called Dan Egan. Pay your £27.50 (or £22 if you pay another £70 to join the club, oh wow), pop along to The White Haus in Farringdon next Tuesday (London-centric once again), get a few inclusive munchies and beer or wine, and have the aforementioned sell you his book, which costs over £20 in paperback. Meanwhile, the exact same person is doing two talks at Ellis Brigham for just a crisp £5 note which is refundable against the book purchase. He's also doing it at the National Snow Show for free.
If you are going to have 'an evening with' type of event I suggest it needs to be something you can't get free somewhere else, and involves someone current and/or famous, or nobody will cough up or show up. (No offence to Mr Egan, I'm sure he's a legend somewhere)
The blurb says:
| Quote: |
| He’ll be talking about some of the incredible experiences he’s had all over the world and sharing his stories exclusively to Ski Club of Great Britain members. |
only it isn't exclusive is it?
The events page still shows just four events, and doesn't bother list the Dan Egan one:
| Quote: |
Winter Starts Here Member Meet up
White Haus, London // Monday 6th Sept, 8:15pm
Ski with Chemmy & Charlie
The Snow Centre, Hemel // Tues 28th Sept, varied times
Kit & Equipment with Snow+Rock
Details coming soon...
The National Snow Show
Birmingham // Sat 23rd & Sun 24th October |
That's it, incomplete and mainly in the past. This isn't a club is it?
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@Pruman,
Yes ... to all except Angus is not a mini TCD. Hope he comes with a vision though.
Re the cost control I could give you ammunition, but there is no need. My point is that without a vision and brave new plan even a vaguely break even SCGB is just going to become less and less relevant. As you illustrate very well in your post - I don't disagree with your points at all. Interesting though that we both can be bothered to comment ...
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FAQ
