 Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
The crosslinks are relevant because where he posts most of his bile is not publicly searchable.
Surely it is relevant for anyone considering joining the SCGB to see what some of its leadership is like?.... |
This. The SCGB's representative on this site has been racist, misogynist, and childishly abusive in sections of this site which aren't indexed by search engines.
Gerald and the rest of the SCGB board wants his behaviour and attitudes to be hidden.
I may be as Gerald said "less than a man", but I'm still not much inclined to comply with their wishes.
I don't think Gerald is a distraction from the SCGB's troubles, which are the responsibility of those in charge, represented here by Gerald.
| ecureuil wrote: |
| ... the cross-poster would be breaching both this site's T&Cs and copyright law. |
 Feel free to issue proceedings, but that's laughable.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I also await the argument that it's an evil suppression of free speech by, erm, replicating that free speech.....
Does no one think it is relevant that SCGB's most senior represntative on this forum has over the years contributed little but bile and a very particular self-interested political agenda and that he has no interest in reconciling how the things he actively celebrates make things in any way shape or form better for British skiers (clue....they don't)? Maybe it's just me but I think it speaks to something that an organisation has seen fit to have such a "character" on the exec in two separate eras.
And anyway I think @philwig and I have adequately articulated why it is "fair use" in encouraging debate on the SCGB's standards and values......
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| The crosslinks are relevant because where he posts most of his bile is not publicly searchable. |
Sorry, I don't understand. Surely this thread is no more or less publicly searchable than the Brexit thread.
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Apres cannot be searched externally.
The Piste can.
Waste of frickin time putting people on ignore for trolling, bullying and posting bullshine, though, when everyone just quotes the bullshine 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| andy wrote: |
Apres cannot be searched externally.
The Piste can.
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Thanks. I didn't know that. It's probably just as well for Gerry, or Emily Thornberry might be after him.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
| First task for the GM - explain to the Council the need to wind down the organisation, repay the few remaining assets to the members, and turn off the lights? Or agree a completely different set of Terms of Reference for their role, where they are actually able to manage the organisation in a way which guarantees a (very limited) future role for it, rather than being just an order taker from the assorted band of uniquely unqualified people elected into a position of power on the basis of how many zombie members ticked their box with no idea of who they were? |
Yes, that. He won't do the first idea unless completely hell bent on being made redundant so most likely the second option.
With no actual power, the GM now takes orders and runs a company run by Reps for the benefit of Reps. To benefit the Reps was always the case IMV but now more obvious than ever. Exhibit 1 - Fresh Tracks holidays - Why so many? Why to a myriad of places people don't usually want to go? Why so pricey? Answer - feed the Reps. But it cannot continue like that for much longer - as discussed a few pages back, they've blown 4 MILLION QUID!
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And so one of the greatest clubs in history ended not with a fearsome battle, but with a sorry capitulation. Its hold on the skiing fraternity lasted for almost 50 years, and while the Byzantine Empire also fell apart meekly, the final battle at Constantinople was at least more befitting of a regime’s downfall than the slow, painful demise of the SCGB.
https://historycollection.com/last-days-rome-great-empire-fell-barely-whimper/2/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The gift which keeps on giving. Four million and counting.
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FWIW it looks like I will be interviewing new SCGB General Manager, James Gambrill, for The Ski Podcast - any (sensible) questions you'd like me to ask?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Why was David Goldsmith’s membership rescinded?
Does James agree with that decision and if not, will James welcome an application for membership (and perhaps, at a later date, a senior management position) from DG?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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He said sensible @AL9000 - and then you go an use the Goldsmith Conjecture... dear me.
@iainm, "SCGB is by no means unique among clubs of its kind in having seen a long decline in regards to their members active participation in the general running and function of the club, and in regards to the numbers of members paying subs. Much of this has been driven by information being more freely available and accessible to people so they need to rely less on specialist clubs. Where does the SCGB see its Unique Role being in the UK Skiing and Snowboarding scene, beyond the legacy loyalty to an existing membership? How do they hope to remain relevant - What can they offer me that I can't get elsewhere?"
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Good question (the non-DG one!) - internet seriously undermined the ski club, plus bans on 'ski guides'
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You know it makes sense.
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@iainm, We see that a lot of the SCGB members persist in wanting rep-led off-piste guiding and that the SCGB keeps promising various configurations which might provide a variant of that to a small selection of resorts. Given that we understand that there is no conceivable way given Brexit and legal constraints that rep led guiding can occur are these initiatives a fair application of members' funds or is it a subsidy for the few paid for by the many? How does the SCGB propose to balance this with providing real tangible benefits to all members regardless of their specific choice of resort ot holiday operator?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @iainm, .. How does the SCGB propose to balance this with providing real tangible benefits to all members regardless of their specific choice of resort ot holiday operator? |
They don't. It's still a subsidy for the few paid for by the many model. They only difference is that now that the current subsidy is drying up, they are using the subsidy from the past ( buildings etc ) paid for by members of the past. Thus the panic setting in as that subsidy will run out soon.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Richard_Sideways, They said landing a man on the moon was ridiculous…until it was done (allegedly)! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| iainm wrote: |
| FWIW it looks like I will be interviewing new SCGB General Manager, James Gambrill, for The Ski Podcast - any (sensible) questions you'd like me to ask? |
Hum, thanks. How about...
How do you intend to engage current members to ensure that the club remains relevant to them whilst attracting new membership from other parts of the snowsports community?
(Or something along those lines, assuming that the later part is the intent)
And/or
How might the club become more inclusive when the experience of members will be dictated not just by the intentions of the club but by the attitude (and apparent lack of diversity) of other punters at events and on holidays?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
It's still a subsidy for the few paid for by the many model.
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They need the snow-based version of JC to inverse that relationship….and only one wo/man can get past the Establishment’s guard dog.
Spoilsport! Can’t believe you won’t mention DG in some way.
Typical self-censoring establishment media.
It would be like an episode of Eastenders without Sharon or Neighbours without Kylie FFS!
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@AL9000, FWIW I imagine that subscribers to The Ski Podcast may be more interested in broader issues for the SCGB than DG’s denied membership. Having said that I’d pay good money to see DG and Gerry square off on Jeremy Kyle
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| @AL9000, FWIW I imagine that subscribers to The Ski Podcast may be more interested in broader issues for the SCGB than DG’s denied membership…. |
@On the rocks, Eau contreaux mon amy, eau contreaux!
Give the people what they want!
Remember, using an analogy most SCGB members will understand and probably remember, Chamberlain detested and did everything he could to stop Churchill’s rise to the top.
| On the rocks wrote: |
| …Having said that I’d pay good money to see DG and Gerry square off on Jeremy Kyle |
My point precisely!
The establishment appeaser v the plucky outsider with the talent, tenacity and instink to save SCGB from devastation!
Or for the younger podcast listeners, JR v Cliff Barnes!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| iainm wrote: |
| Good question (the non-DG one!) - internet seriously undermined the ski club, plus bans on 'ski guides' |
Why not the DG one? As far as I know, his 'crime' was to point out certain irregularities with the environmental fund which I believe are still unanswered and he also asked questions about the club's seemingly unfathomable membership numbers and indeed the costs associated with the whole rep program. He's also been invited to rejoin via email more than once and when he does it gets rejected. Yes, please ask about DG and why this particular brand of discrimination is OK?
Otherwise, the guy you need to be interviewing is the Chairman but anyway:-
- How are you going to make the Club relevant again? Attract badly needed new members and re-activate lapsed ones.
- What compelling membership benefits will you be offering and at what price going forward? (note- IMO there are currently no compelling benefits and the price is too high by a factor of at least 2)
- The average age of a club member increases by a decade every decade - it's now well into the 50s! In other words, no new younger types are joining and soon the club will literally die. So how are they going to attract younger skiers?
- What does he think the cost of acquisition is for a new member? How many are they targeting and what budget is available? - because it'll need to be substantial.
- Explain the mad pricing and odd resort choices of the Fresh Tracks program
- The whole Social Rep situation is ambiguous, perhaps deliberately. From the SCGB site:
| Quote: |
What is the role of a Social Rep?
Once Social Reps have established communication channels with members in resort, the role of the Social Rep will be to arrange and encourage member meet ups in resort. These social activities could be on or off snow and a Social Rep will share their knowledge of the resort with other members. |
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What's not required for the Social Rep?
The role of a Social Rep does not include “leading” members of snow in any capacity. The Ski Club do not expect for any Social Rep to take on any On-Snow responsibility. |
You can just imagine the scenario in resort. Person puts themselves forward as Social Rep, and we can all close our eyes and imagine the type. They've been going to the same resort for 30 years and know many of the off piste routes. Does anyone think for one second that they're not going to up their standing and 'show people around'? Of course they are. How is the GM going to police it? Is it just back door guiding?
- Finally, other clubs refunded or part-refunded membership subs during lockdowns. The club membership was unusable for around 15 months at least. Why haven't they properly addressed that?
I'm sure I can think of others but that'll keep him going 
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I think they could definitely do with a bit of precision on what a "Social Rep" will and will not do, the rewards (or compensation or expenses) paid to such individuals and the protections they put around such individuals and the members who might end up skiing with them. I think I'd be more uneasy# skiing with someone with a designated title or role knowing that by skiing with such a person they could end up in jail then skiing with the same person on a strict peer-to-peer untitled role. Ah i can hear some saying "That's fine- they'll be strictly off-duty when skiing with you" but that just smacks of a "turn your jacket inside out" plan. Would be interesting if Gambrill can be clear and compelling on this?
# Well actually I might say "Fine its your own risk - if you are happy to lead I'm happy to follow but let's be clear I am not going to be lying to any authorities around the officialness of your role if questioned"
Strikes me that SCGB need to expect that members will not bend over backwards when being grilled by local bacon.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, The trouble is, the leading was the one real USP the club had. It's the only reason I joined, and it's the only reason for joining for any other members I have ever met.
This is what helped the membership numbers, being a really good offering; and conveniently to deliver this offering it was jobs for the boys and a free ski season for the rep led council.
Now that this has gone, due to a variety of factors, there is literally nothing left to offer. I'm guessing this is why the council is still desperately clinging to the idea, like a drowning man clutching a lifebelt.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eblunt is spot on. The only reason to join now is to go on Freshtracks trips, which are currently not designed to appeal to a wide range of skiers and budgets.
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@eblunt, @Jehu, definitely worth @iainm grilling Gambrill on. It's obviously the number one thing that will determine what the club is for as long as it survives so you'd hope he asked all the relevant questions and has complete clarity during his onboarding or it might be a very short job.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, ooh IME onboarding is frowned on at the SCGB...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
….
it might be a very short job
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Especially considering that the winter sports version of Jose Mourinho* is waiting in the wings!
* You all know who I mean!
It is….INEVITABLE! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| ooh IME onboarding is frowned on at the SCGB... |
| MorningGory wrote: |
| I think you mean snowboarding is frowned on at the SCGB... |
Is waterboarding OK, then?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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There's a lot to unpack here. I don't think I'm informed enough on DG to ask about this. Maybe I can ask if the club is open to all?
Other comments:
- What can you do to ensure the Club is relevant?
- Is the only reason to join the club to access Fresh Tracks?
- Will there be a refund of membership post-lockdown?
- Could you expand on exactly what services a Social Rep will provide?
- How are you going to replace the membership by attracting younger skiers to join?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd expand on that first one and go for "What would he like the role of the club to be for the skiing and snowboarding community in the UK?"
You could also ask for his (or the clubs) opinion of that piece in the last episode of Ski Sunday this season on inclusivity and extending the reach of skiing and snowboarding outside the traditional markets?
Do they see a role for the club working with GB Snowsport and BASI?
Do they see a role for the club working with groups like Disability snowsports UK and Protect Our Winters?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@iainm,
I'm not a SCGB member, never have been.
Given the rapid changes in communications tech over recent years, moving from Ceefax to instant information and widespread op-eds at the finger tips, the relevance of providing snow reports (we can all recall "best conditions on the upper slopes") or indeed any informational services is well past its sell-buy date.
Online accommodation booking, a slew of websites - such as the estimable snowheads and not so estimable FBook at a general level and the local in-town/in-village offerings for more focussed info / opinion - providing social contact facilities, ride sharing, knowledge sharing, clothing and kit recycling channels, youtube training videos, and contact details of the ski-schools and guides... are all now catered for elsewhere.
Hence: what does he see as the purpose of the ski-club in C21? (or in corporate parlance "What is its mission statement"?)
It could be there is a "digital strategy" hidden in the basement - you can't give up because there are alternatives, competitors, but a USP is required to get people to pay up. If so - what are they planning to offer that is 'better' than the rest ? Or different?
And yes, as above: what are they doing to make it relevant to gain a young cohort of membership, to replace those who are dying off?
He should be willing and able to use your podcast as an opportunity to sell the purpose, the direction, the reason for existing. I'd like to think there is a place for the SCGB - I'm just not sure where that is. The GM should be able to tell me.
good luck!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| iainm wrote: |
There's a lot to unpack here. I don't think I'm informed enough on DG to ask about this. Maybe I can ask if the club is open to all?
Other comments:
- What can you do to ensure the Club is relevant?
- Is the only reason to join the club to access Fresh Tracks?
- Will there be a refund of membership post-lockdown?
- Could you expand on exactly what services a Social Rep will provide?
- How are you going to replace the membership by attracting younger skiers to join? |
Ignore the DG thing - it's just an irrelevancy.
But you probably do need to go a bit Paxman on him - it's a chance to test whether the SCGB have their act together or are still operating on fantasy island wrapped in platitudes. So not just what a social rep will provide but explicitly what they will not do and the legal situation around that - I suspect no members want to spend their holibobs in police stations being interviewed on how their group leader was operating.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| iainm wrote: |
There's a lot to unpack here. I don't think I'm informed enough on DG to ask about this. Maybe I can ask if the club is open to all?
Other comments:
- What can you do to ensure the Club is relevant?
- Is the only reason to join the club to access Fresh Tracks?
- Will there be a refund of membership post-lockdown?
- Could you expand on exactly what services a Social Rep will provide?
- How are you going to replace the membership by attracting younger skiers to join? |
That seems to cover it. In my view the big issues are (1) Relevancy which is linked to membership numbers which is linked to financial performance which is linked to surviving and (2) staying legal and safe in foreign countries without utilising amateurs via the back door.
I assume you know the guy well and consider him a friend - good, that means you can unleash you inner Andrew Neil even more and give no easy rides. OK, it's not going to be Frost / Nixon but please give it a good go.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
He should be willing and able to use your podcast as an opportunity to sell the purpose, the direction, the reason for existing. I'd like to think there is a place for the SCGB - I'm just not sure where that is. The GM should be able to tell me.
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And if the answer includes discounts at retailers and insurance as major points then that's not really a place.
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| Quote: |
OK, it's not going to be Frost / Nixon but please give it a good go.
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Could be, if only there was some specialist snow-based investigative ‘journalist’ to take over the reins as inquisitor in chief.
A cross between, Frost-Paxman-Marquis de Sade of snow-based invigilation.
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Nobody expects the Goldsmith Inquisition.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@iainm, could you ask him what the application, selection and interview process was? Was it a multi day interview, skills and knowledge face to face assessment or was it interrogation over Zoom by a panel of 20?
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I would have thought the obvious question would be why did you take the job 
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FAQ
