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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pejoli wrote:
I spoke to someone from Mark Warner last week and agreed a refund (all very straightforward) and received a cancellation invoice on the 17th. Still waiting for the refund to appear on my credit card.
Same, I emailed them today to see what the hold up was.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Grand Massif ski passes refunded today. Due to fluctuating exchange rates I've come out slightly on top. Very Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@blacksheep, In exactly the same situation and time frame with Skiworld - been offered a credit note - no replies to refund requests - waiting to see if ABTA guarantee refunds - but how long do we wait or do we just claim off insurance?
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@Dippy, I don't believe my insurance covers me in this situation. I have no ill feeling to the company I just want my money back. I've contacted the credit card co to ask for a Sec 75 claim form. I'll go down the charge-back route if needs be.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Just got a call from ESF out of the blue - offering a refund for booked lessons - back to my credit card.
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Jonny996 wrote:
I wouldn't say easyjet have been very good. Email says amend or get refund but the there is no way of getting refund and no contact us option, very frustrating.


You need to call them but it's a devil of a job to get through! I tried about 40 times yesterday and got the same message "We're too busy, call back later". Others reporting the same thing - you've just got to keep trying. Managed to get through at 0800 on the dot when they opened this morning and refund for my cancelled flights all sorted.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
email back from Sunweb in response to my request for refund, declined, credit voucher is all they will offer.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Tweet sent to Village Montana cos I still have no sign of my security deposit back, nor any response, 12 days later. They can keep my parking and Tax du Sejour, although I only used each one for 1 night!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@endoman, Sunweb have tried to fob us off with a voucher as well, despite their T&C's clearly stating that we are entitled to a refund and a "cancellation invoice" stating that the money is to be refunded. We haven't given up the fight yet....
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I’ve had an email today from LeSki in which they continue to push the ‘claim on your insurance’ angle. They included a letter from their recommended insurance company. I thought it worth sharing for comment but also so others can see how different companies are approaching this.

A customer books a trip with a Tour Operator or Travel Company (‘TO’) and a contract is created. The customer must attend the trip and the TO has to provide it if they can.
In the Coronavirus 19 situation, whilst it could be argued the TO is in breach of contract by not providing the trip likewise the customer is in breach as they have not attended the trip and are liable to pay liquidated damages to the TO, known in the vernacular as ‘the cancellation scale’.
In this case the TO is unable to deliver due to a Force Majeure event, which they should be able to rely on and thus the customer (also in breach) would file a claim on their travel insurance. If they don’t have one, they are in a further breach as this is a requirement in the TO Terms & Conditions.
In filing a claim under a travel insurance, it would be usual that a customer demonstrates they have attempted to mitigate their loss (a condition in all insurance policies) and to satisfy insurers that there are no refunds available. To do otherwise, just pay the claim, before establishing the net position would be to leave open the possibility of double indemnity (claim and recover from TO) an offence under insurance law.
Upon request the TO would or should provide the customer with a Cancellation Invoice showing a breakdown of the total cost plus or minus the amounts due under the TO’s cancellation scale and any recoverable items e.g. ski pass etc.
This will then be presented by the insured to the claims department, in our case Ageas Insurance for settlement.
It seems there has been some misunderstanding in the market over the next process. MPI’s Insurance provides for trip cancellation following advice from the FCO against all but essential travel or denial of access to the booked accommodation.
Hope you stay well and Bon Ski next year!
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Re Le Ski, Reading the Ts & Cs S8 refers to cancellation by Le Ski - see option (c) & S9 to Force Majeure (WHEN ON HOLIDAY) so how is this applicable to a holiday NOT yet taken???
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@blacksheep see above post re Le Ski
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well Le Ski sound like one to avoid in future.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@MissElectra, thanks for the pointer.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@DidierCouch, No, their holidays have been great
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Message deleted


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 27-03-20 21:49; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
He assured us that you wouldn’t bad-mouth us, whatever the outcome. Instead it seems, you went direct to this forum and bad mouthed us.

Why was that even brought up? Would you have treated the customer differently if they "hadn`t agreed"
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Full refund received from Inghams on 24/03 for a trip to Italy that was booked for 14/03 (then re-scheduled to Austria after Italy was cancelled).

Excellent service. Very prompt return of monies regarding the number of cancellations they must have had to deal with.
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Ben's Bus = full refund minus fiver admin fee.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@blacksheep, my sons insurance 'should' cover him for a refund. It looks likely he will proceed with this claim as still no useful feedback from Skiworld.
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blacksheep wrote:
... a letter from their recommended insurance company:
...
In this case the TO is unable to deliver due to a Force Majeure event, which they should be able to rely on and thus the customer (also in breach) would file a claim on their travel insurance. ...

My understanding of Force Majeure is that it effectively voids the contract, because it's an event neither party, being reasonable, could have forseen.

I've no argument with that... my problem is the implication in this text that such an event means that the tour operator can take the money
and run... that's not what this means. If the contract's void, you don't get to keep the cash. It's void: you need to return the cash.

Look at it the other way around: if you have to cancel and you still have your cash, no tour operator could possibly come after you for it
because the contract was voided by Force Majeure. Even if that wasn't the case, they'd have to prove they'd taken the costs the contract is based on
in order to recover them, which manifestly they did not take.

Insurance is neither here nor there, but a operators can and do insure against such things. They can't get away with not doing that and then expect
to be able to steal their customers' cash in order to cover their losses. Nice try, but it won't work.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Anyone had any joy from Sunweb? I had an ongoing issue with them prior to Covid-19 which I raised a complaint about, but not had any response from them regarding complaint only fobbed off with voucher code which I certainly will not be using for a holiday with them!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@greenblueredblack!, not yet, although I'm still trying to persuade them to honour their own Terms and Conditions. It's a trifle galling as the only thing they were providing was an apartment and I'm pretty sure that they won't as yet have given our money to the apartment owner... Sad
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Yoda We had a package of flights, transfer and hotel booked with them but only offered the voucher. It's tough times for all, but the way they have dealt with my initial complaint and how they are responding now definitely would not recommend them.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
the pieman wrote:
@Mogmogmog

Hi Louise

I don’t spend any time on this forum but I have been directed to your post by a friend. My name is Giles from the development centre, val d’isere

Having seen your anonymous posts which refers to your dealings with TDC, here are my thoughts:

I’ve been working with TDC since we began in 2002. In that time we have always tried to do the best job that we can on the hill with our clients, and create the best working environment for our clients. Most of the time these two aims compliment each other.

The COVID-19 situation is unprecedented for everyone. We have tried to take an approach which protects the instructors and also considers the position of the clients. We’re structured as a syndicate, and after a meeting with all the coaches we decided that in the first instance we would ask clients to make an insurance claim. If the insurance claim is not successful we would then engage with the client to find a solution. It took us a few days to start contacting people, since our office staff had to pack up and leave the valley at very short notice.

Ross volunteered to give you a call since he is the one who has a relationship with you. He assured us that you wouldn’t bad-mouth us, whatever the outcome. Instead it seems, you went direct to this forum and bad mouthed us.

The title of the forum on which you posted “who have been the good guys?” is a puzzle to me. The very idea that there are “good” and “bad” people in this situation is naïve. The situation is terrible and isn’t anyone’s fault.

I think it is important to take a broader view of this situation. It is important to try and think of the position that other people are in. Every business and every individual will be in a slightly different starting position and will have different options available to them. Our position has always been to ask clients to make an effort to use their insurance (which has worked in some cases) and then to get back to us if it doesn’t. We have reflected many times on the approach that we have taken and there is no black and white certainty on what is the right thing to do. Many clients have been very supportive and we thank them for that.

I think that we have treated you fairly but I apologise if some of our communication was not clear. I don’t think that divulging the contents of private conversations online is fair in any way. This is what you have done. Please take the posts which reference TDC down.

Ultimately we’re all going to move past this difficult period and there are more important things to this than skiing. I am pleased that you plan to ski with Ross next year.

Catch you on the slopes.

Giles


The irony. Not sure you really get social media & pretty sure you have now lost a client for good
ski holidays
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
...


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 8-10-20 7:16; edited 1 time in total
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Mr_frosty wrote:
did anyone on here have a booking with Family Ski? it looks like they're now advising everyone to claim on their own insurance for losses. we got direct full refunds for the 3V ski passes and rental from skimium but have holiday, flight, car parking, and airport hotel to sort.


Yes, we got the same. Communication is terrible, their phone effectively disconnected. Any benefit of doubt I would have given them now gone.

They are still advertising next seasons trips under a massive banner that I can book with confidence due to ABTOT coverage. It seems I can book with confidence unless they don’t feel like honouring their own terms and conditions.

Their reason is they expect a change in the law so they won’t have to refund, except, as tomorrow is 14 days since they Cancelled and the law has not actually been changed, as we are now at 14 days I assume they are now breaking the law.

I have logged it with the credit card company, try to get money back that way.

The sad thing is, had they communicated better and behaved better, i probably would have already rebooked, now they can do one. Unfortunately, all small T/O’s are going to be treated with more skepticism in future I think.

I assume the cc company will try to recover it from them anyway, so they lose the money and good will in one go.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/we-need-to-cut-travel-companies-some-slack-right-now/
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
[quote="luigi"]
rutlandchris wrote:
Getting really hacked off now with Holiday Extras who it seems are quite happy to retain customers money, despite their providers offering free cancellation.

I had booked a stay 3 April at Radisson Stansted Airport (who are now offering free cancellations to customers up to 30 April) along with parking at Stansted (who're also offering cancellation).

But Holiday Extras are refusing to refund. So I would imagine they'll be cancelling both bookings (fee free) and then just keeping my money as profit.

Talk about taking advantage of people in a bad situation. I won't be the only one Mad
When you see so many good gestures from businesses around the world,


Yep, Holiday Extras have kept my Heathrow parking cash for my April trip too. I expect they cancelled it with the provider with no charge to them and pocketed the cash. Won't be using them again on principle! rolling eyes



Lookingforparking.com were excellent. Refunded me for my April 18th parking all bar £9.50 as I hadn’t taken out cancellation insurance. It was v promptly in my account.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
...


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 8-10-20 7:15; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Mogmogmog, just to say you named your instructor in previous posts. Maybe take a deep breath a think how much damage has been done by us knowing your first name? Ask a mod to delete it from the post.

The ICO wont fine for such a minor breach. When...if...they get to it there might be a warning at worst.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
...


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 8-10-20 7:13; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Mogmogmog, search your own posts
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@Mogmogmog, previous posts in a different thread
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Mogmogmog wrote:
Just wondering why TDC has now decided to breach GDPR regulations and name me and my instructor on social media. I have in no way divulged the content of any private conversations. I have shared only the communications received by their office via email. Extremely sad at how a loyal client is being treated. Bad times all round. Reputation is everything - sadly I think some companies are going to fall foul of how they've treated people in the coming seasons. I am very sad at this point.


What’s rotten is the idea that we have to pay in advance. That will change. Do bricklayers get paid in advance? How often have you paid for instruction and it’s not been all that great?

This is going to be a wake up call for an industry that has become very self obsessed.
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Gerry wrote:

What’s rotten is the idea that we have to pay in advance.


Why is that "rotten"? I can't see any other way in which a package operator - which has to knit together and commit the components of a holiday - can ensure that it has secured a booking from a client. As a director of the Ski Club of Great Britain - which, as I understand it, has simply refunded all its advance-bookers for the remainder of this winter - why are you (effectively) now describing such ethical business practice as "rotten"?

Gerry wrote:
Do bricklayers get paid in advance?

Well ... you tell us: you're in the construction industry. If, as a specialist bricklayer, I contract to do a job that requires special bricks (possibly specially made) you can be damn sure I'll demand a percentage in advance. As a ceramic tiling contractor, have you never required advance payment to guarantee a job and specialist materials order?

Gerry wrote:
This is going to be a wake up call for an industry that has become very self obsessed.

Does this twaddle just spew out of your brain?

I really fear for the future of the SCGB. It has vested its future in two areas of business: holiday sales and insurance sales. The focus on these two very risky trades has consolidated while you've been a director ... but things could have been so different. Now you're apparently advocating that the Ski Club should sell holidays without taking advance payments.

You're a fucking genius!
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WILL NEVER USE CRYSTAL SKI AGAIN.Flew out To Passo Tonale Sat 7th Mch.Lifts closed sunday,taken to Madonna Di Campiglio sunday night.That closed monday.Flew home wednesday to 14 days isolation.Emails to Crystal ignored.Promised refund within 14 days,Not arrived. Mad
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Snowbizz has issued full refunds. Fantastic for such a small shop.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Davina Goldballs,
Quote:
Now you're apparently advocating that the Ski Club should sell holidays without taking advance payments.


I was talking about ski schools not package tour operators.
ski holidays
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SkiTurk wrote:
WILL NEVER USE CRYSTAL SKI AGAIN.Flew out To Passo Tonale Sat 7th Mch.Lifts closed sunday,taken to Madonna Di Campiglio sunday night.That closed monday.Flew home wednesday to 14 days isolation.Emails to Crystal ignored.Promised refund within 14 days,Not arrived. Mad


14 days is the ATOL limit. I expect Crystal are working flat out and you'll get your refund in the end.
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