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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ansta1, ah, thanks for that.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Alastair Pink, I had the same timescale for my flights. It was exactly 30 days, as promised for the refund to be processed. My money arrived a little quicker.

Easyjet must take us for mugs if they think we don't know its an automatic process designed to keep the brass for as long as possible.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pejoli wrote:
Checked my emails - They came back 13 days after the claim was issued (they asked for the 14 day extension, but didn’t use it). They then paid up 21 days after that.

I also covered myself by emailing them a letter of action seven days before I made the claim (google ‘letter of action’ to find a few examples you can adapt)


Hi Pejoli I followed your advice and today was refunded by Mark Warner. Just goes to show if you dig your heels in deep enough, you can beat the bullies - also extremely grateful to a reporter from Travel Weekly who also picked up on my case.
Thank you for sharing your advice.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Artois wrote:
Pejoli wrote:
Checked my emails - They came back 13 days after the claim was issued (they asked for the 14 day extension, but didn’t use it). They then paid up 21 days after that.

I also covered myself by emailing them a letter of action seven days before I made the claim (google ‘letter of action’ to find a few examples you can adapt)


Hi Pejoli I followed your advice and today was refunded by Mark Warner. Just goes to show if you dig your heels in deep enough, you can beat the bullies - also extremely grateful to a reporter from Travel Weekly who also picked up on my case.
Thank you for sharing your advice.


That's great news - glad it's worked out!
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Though this is not about refunds times past, it is about a current policy. I had to clarify a couple of points with BA today about a future booking and had this explained to me.

On all bookings currently made they offer a voucher for the amount paid for any cancellation you may need to make in relation to Covid19 rules/restrictions. They will refund in full if they cancel the flight, but if the flight runs but you can`t take it due to country/travel restrictions etc you can re-book with out incurring any additional costs (ie no re-booking fee) other than any price difference in the fare, or you can have a voucher for the full amount which can be used to pay for another flight (or BA holiday) on any route for any or all of those persons on the original booking.

I just thought that might be useful information. Very Happy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Booked a non-refundable ticket with Eurotunnel last summer to travel to France in September (which was allowed at the time). Have now moved the ticket three times to Dec, then March, and it is now on its latest travel date of 24th June. However, I was advised to call them nearer the time if I was still unable to travel and they would look at it again.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Hells Bells, I'm same, they said if I don't use it by 4th June i'll lose it, you think it'll be possible to move again?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Markymark29, lady on the phone said to call them closer to the expiry of the ticket and they would see what they could do for me. It was only one-way so if I lose it it won't be the end of the world, but every little helps.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Hells Bells, thanks: good to know - I've still got one 'running' that needs to be moved again if I can, and who knows if/when we'll be able to take advantage.

As you say, not the end of the world if we lose it, not a hill I'm going to die on. And frankly, at the moment they probably need it more than we do...
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Hells Bells, thanks for that info - we've got a return ticket expiring in July having rolled it twice from last Easter but looking like we might need to roll it to Christmas now.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Hells Bells, we had tickets for last Easter which we then moved to New Year. When it became clear in November that we wouldn't be going anywhere, I called and was given a voucher that I have to make a booking with within 12 months, but it will then have the normal conditions of being able to move for a further year.
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Got our deposit of approx 3.5k refunded within two days of asking for a group of 16 guys going to val thorens in March from Tony at ski4less (Wales)

We changed the booking a lot of times and he was very flexible and very quick to reply.

Will definitely be booking with him next year.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Locasun - when our Les Arcs booking couldn't be completed then straight refund agreed + cleared back to my A/C next day. Fantastic service and approach (only needed a screenshot of current FCO advice to support). Also shout out to Eurotunnel for giving us additional grace on credit note from last winter - agreed really swiftly too.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Campanile happily rolled forward our hotel booking in Reims to next year. The owner of our apartment in Zermatt managed to let out our cancelled week and has rolled forward our deposit to 2022. We have stayed there quite a few times so I don't know how typical that is.
I put a claim in to my insurers (Insureandgo) on Saturday for a Eurotunnel crossing (£184). They have paid up today (Monday), less £50 excess.
All in all, no complaints and only £50 down. But of course I'd rather have spent all the money and been out there right now - the snow is looking wonderful!
Will have to make do sitting in front of the tv watching my son's GoPro videos....
My son hasn't yet had his Easyjet refund for a £29 single flight to GVA though.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
A little bonus today from Air France. We had some November flights to Buenos Aires refunded last year. They had been re-scheduled and this had provided us with an "out" as travel was looking unlikely anyway. (Argentina had closed the Borders). However they declined to refund extra charges for seat upgrades quoting something obscure that I can't remember.

Thankfully our agent had suggested trying again when the dust had settled a bit. Resubmitted last week. Charges refunded to our CC today. Cool
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thumbs up for Tesco Clubcard. Exchanged vouchers for Eurotunnel voucher last February, intending to use it in late March which obviously didn't happen. They extended expiry last April to 12 months from the usual 6 months, but that was due to run out this week. One message and they're refunding the points. Thought they might try to fall back on T & C, or say I could have used it over the summer, but no problem.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Expedia just "extended" their vouchers, which they tell me had otherwise expired because we're beyond a year after the stuff I booked through them couldn't be taken. I think that's nonsense: my local court would consider that their contractual obligation not to confiscate my money without providing the service would not be limited in that way, although I'd rather not have the hassle of issuing proceedings to find out, and the "extension" should be sufficient.

Not "good guys" exactly, but not daylight robbers, yet.

And I get my covid jab tomorrow, they're now in the 50-60 age range here.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
We were due to go to Banff/LL last month with Ski Independence which obviously didn't happen.

They've been in touch throughout, constantly putting back the date when we'd have to pay our balance until things became clearer. When it was apparent that we wouldn't be going we had the option of a refund of our deposit, to carry over the same itinerary to 2022 or to make any changes.

We rebooked for the equivalent dates next year and SI absorbed the rise in flight costs so we pay the same as we would have for this year. They've been tremendous.
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I made a booking with GoToGate in November 2019, for a flight in Sept 2020.
The airline cancelled the flights in August 2020.
I have been chasing GotoGate since then for a refund, their automatic response is along the lines of it takes 6 months so wait it out sucker.
As I paid on a French MasterCard, there is no chargeback (even on the Premium Gold cards for which you pay 120 Eur per year). I can't use the Small claims court as the Transaction took place outside the UK, and Goto Gate are a Swedish entity.
My expensive travel insurance didn't want to know either, so I had kind of written it off, just with the life lesson of never using GotoGate again. Their call centre staff are rude and unhelpful, and I found it easier to understand the agents from the French call centre than the "English" one in Mumbai.
Out of the blue today I got a mail saying they are processing my refund ( no I don't have the money yet), which was a surprise.
Clearly they just plain ignored the refund within 14 days protocol, but I am wondering if there is some law in Sweden which says they have to do it within 6 months. It could be the case that the airline has only just returned the funds to them, but I am very doubtful of that, and believe they have been sitting on my money (and that of loads of other punters) for as long as they are legally allowed. Does anyone know if there is some 6 month rule ?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@WindOfChange, the travel industry has billions of £/€/$ at any one time, all travelling in the same direction: client=>agent=>operator=>service provider=>staff
To reverse that flow across the whole industry in the space of 14 days was never going to be close to feasible.

The PTR 14 day rule was set in mind of individual problems of individual operators and frankly, the 3rd rate journalists who appointed themselves consumers' champions in the immediate aftermath of the shut down, insisting that folk pursue their 'rights' of a resolution within 14 days, might as well have been shouting at you on a zebra crossing to 'stand your ground as you have right of way' over the airborne vehicle bearing down on you.

The problem is, that without engagement from government, once outside the 14 days virtually every operator was technically breaking the rules, nothing to be done about it, end of story.
The EU recognised this and immediately gave guidance that members whose laws followed the PTR, implement a temporary relaxation of the 14 day rule. They recommended something, 3months maybe, could have been 6, I don't recall exactly. Most EU members followed this guidance and promptly amended their own legislation, as that seemed sensible, but the UK didn't. Problem is the UK.gov didn't do anything else either. As far as I'm aware, the transport minister never even made an unofficial comment on the issue. It's kind of like he wasn't really aware of there being a travel industry - or perhaps he just didn't know it came under his remit?

Hence: infeasibility for most of the industry to follow the rules + no additional input from UK.gov = mass confusion + discontent.

So, sorry, not really an answer to your question just, hopefully, helping clarify the context.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
admin wrote:
frankly, the 3rd rate journalists who appointed themselves consumers' champions in the immediate aftermath of the shut down, insisting that folk pursue their 'rights' of a resolution within 14 days, might as well have been shouting at you on a zebra crossing to 'stand your ground as you have right of way' over the airborne vehicle bearing down on you.


Who could you possibly be referring to? Happy
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@snowdave, Laughing nudge nudge eh? Yes of course, there are those of whom we know to expect no better.
But my disappointment was more in the likes of Simon Calder and Which? Well respected and normally considered authoritative. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term '3rd rate' as historically these people have had better reps than that but then, because of that, I expected better.
These people must surely know perfectly well how the industry works - it's pretty obvious - and hence the futility of the message they were broadcasting. If they don't have even that basic understanding they're hardly worthy of their standing. OTOH if they do have that understanding, and so knew the position they were taking was ridiculous, well... like I said disappointing, either way.

But behind it all, what was required was for Grant Schnapps to simply say, "14days under these circumstances can't be expected, however anyone taking longer than eg. 3 months had better have a damn good explanation." Simples! Nobody needs to get irate, customer helplines don't need to melt down. Those capable of covering the 14day deadline look great, those who make the new deadline look capable and compliant and those that don't, get extra scrutiny.
I'm under the impression that most EU members did something like that, on the basis that a) the EU suggested, with good reason, it was necessary and b) it was easy.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I see that Family Ski are accepting deposit payments for 21/22 season by debit card only. They are insisting on balance payments by bank transfer only. Obviously trying to get around possible credit card chargebacks in case things go bad again this season. Just got a quote from them, but upon reading this information I won't be going near them!
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The EU undermined long-established consumer rights with retrospective legislation/guidance, effectively caving in to operator pressure. And ABTA wanted our own govt to fall meekly into line and do the same. Personally, I will never trust ABTA again on any assurances about protecting the paying customer.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
mitcva wrote:
Personally, I will never trust ABTA again on any assurances about protecting the paying customer.

ABTA is all about protecting the travel agent, not the consumer. Always has been. I've haven't trusted them since a travel agent I used screwed up my honeymoon (30 odd years ago) and ABTA didn't want to know unless I signed a disclaimer to say I wouldn't take the agent to a claims court if ABTA got involved on my behalf, even if they found against the agent.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
oldschool72 wrote:
I see that Family Ski are accepting deposit payments for 21/22 season by debit card only. They are insisting on balance payments by bank transfer only. Obviously trying to get around possible credit card chargebacks in case things go bad again this season. Just got a quote from them, but upon reading this information I won't be going near them!


It is possible that they can't find an acquirer prepared to process credit card payments on their behalf. Historically, this was a good indication of creditworthiness, but given how badly the travel industry has traded for the last year, I suspect that the underwriting bar is very much higher than it used to be, so it's possible that "good" operators will also struggle to accept credit cards.

After by 2020 experiences tho', I wouldn't book anything without a credit card; it saved me thousands of pounds of losses.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Eventually got our EasyJet refunds after waiting months. It was two separate bookings which they refunded in 3 parts. Except they didn’t iniitially. We noticed we’d only received 1 part so I phoned up. They said we’d had it, which I denied. They said they’d investigate and voila the other 2 payments received 6 days later. Really not impressed. Are they hoping people won’t check their bank/credit card statements?
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Me too.
I'll be interested to see if the phoenixed VIP Ski will be able to accept credit card payments this autumn.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Some credit card providers are hanging onto funds and no longer paying them out to the companies involved where there have been significant chargebacks and refunds made. One smaller provider is Stripe who have lots of smaller travel companies and independent holiday home owners. I have not (so far) been affected by this, but I do know of some who have been. Most have had to refund significant amounts, compared to their usual, through their accounts.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Finally got my refund from GotoGate today for September flights. I had to pay a 30 EUR handling fee, which displeased me a little, but I did get EUR550 back which I thought was lost.
I will promote them from the Theiving Scumbags who keep your money step up to the Awful customer service who I would never use again if the world was flooded with P1 55 and their office were up a tree step.

Which is he grand scheme of things, and comparing them with those who have just kept the money and Pheonixed, or kept the money and are still trading makes them quite good guys.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
admin wrote:
It's interesting seeing Sunweb cropping up here with such frequency re refund/cancellation problems as the other day, I spoke to a service provider, of not insignificant size, who said that Sunweb owed them rather a lot of money for which they were having difficulty nailing down an exact schedule for payment.

I understand (anecdotally) that Sunweb began as a Dutch company but is now based in Switzerland. I don't know if that has any bearing on their approach to these matters?

In the interest of gaining a fuller picture or perhaps gaining useful advice for those in need (and given the topic title's reference to the 'Good Guys'):
Are there any snowHeads with tales of success in dealing with Sunweb over the course of this zombieApocalypse?


Forgive the delay. Got a full refund this week from Sunweb for our 2020 trip. Was originally turned into a 2021 which never happened. We also have 10% of the value credited to any future booking. Just been a long time without the cash, but I didn't chase them, was all proactive eventually.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
2020 stay with Pierre et Vacances had to be cancelled. Voucher issued for value to be used on future trip. I was ok with that and rebooked soon as possible for 2021 trip....

2021 cancelled back in late February. Another voucher issued. And, today, I’ve rebooked for 2022!

All dealt with very easily. Of course, they’ve had my money for nearly 2 years now....

I’ve also had a easyjet flights and separate ski France apartment booking trip to Flaine for Jan this year. Moved it to March when Jam became impossible and finally moved it to Jan 2022 ... both times I’ve had no issue, no extra costs. And am very satisfied with the processes involved.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Air Canada: good guys.

Whistler's last day was March 15 and I rode until the lifts closed, not knowing they'd be closed for good. I was warming up for a trip to the Yukon the next day for some back country powder. By the 16th everything fell apart, leaving me with a bunch of stuff I'd paid for in advance scattered across various provinces. Over a year later, Air Canada just refunded my costs in full. It wasn't quick, but it took a total of two mouse clicks I think.

Overall, the scores on that Trip were something like:
- Expedia: voucher refunds only, with rumours of expiry dates. If they stiff me I'll litigate, they have money.
- Back country operator: I had to threaten legal action, then they returned my money.
- Bucket trans-Atlantic ticket company: they've stolen the value of one flight leg, I may try to litigate but I doubt they have money.
- Air Canada: full refunds, albeit not quickly.
- Whistler Blackcomb: full immediate refund.

Lessons learned? The world's a different place now, but other than going a couple of weeks earlier if I'd known
what was to come, there's not much I'd change. The most important thing for me was that I knew I had friends in the country
so even as the hotel business closed down around me, I knew I'd always have somewhere to sleep (and maybe quarantine) if
needed. I was also glad I was in control of my own stuff - I self insure so I could just do what was needed without asking permission.
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peerless ploughman wrote:
Me too.
I'll be interested to see if the phoenixed VIP Ski will be able to accept credit card payments this autumn.


We've taken the plunge and booked and paid a deposit with VIP for this coming winter. Paid with credit card
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I wouldn't pay any other way with VIP SKI. As they are not doing flights they do not need ATOL protection. And as they are not offering Package holidays there is no requirement for ABTA bonding. From the T&Cs there is very little in the way of consumer protection.
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