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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@RedandWhiteFlachau, you may already be aware of this, but where there’s an agent in the process it makes a bit of a mess of the liability situation, as the agent’s obligation is to provide you with a booking rather than the flight itself. I don’t know how S75 will be handled in this situation, but chargeback usually fails, and S75 may hit the same problem, ie that the agent (and this your payment provider) has discharged its own duties in issuing the ticket, and the problem is with the airline.

From an airline perspective, being offered an alternative routing is (within reason) usually permitted.

I have flights to singapore booked later this year - singapore won’t let me in, but the flights are still running. Fortunately I’m travelling with Qatar which has a very flexible policy on rebooking, but I’m expecting to have to take a voucher or roll the booking to next year, I’m not expecting a full refund.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@snowdave, Tracking. If all else fails I do have Travel Insurance which will pay out. The alternative routing doesn't change the fact that I can't enter my chosen destination though, not even with quarantine.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yoda wrote:
Despite our previous advice from the bank stating that our money had been refunded (via a chargeback) and was definitely ours, I have today received a letter from them saying "I am still investigating your dispute with Sunweb Holidays. We have received a further response from the retailer which we have declined. Sunweb Holidays have now referred the case to MasterCard for an independent review and final decision. If the outcome of the claim is unsuccessful, I will contact you to advise that the transaction will be reapplied to your account."

Perhaps Sunweb should divert the cash used to sponsor a Tour de France team into refunding their customers in accordance with the law rolling eyes


We've finally been refunded by Sunweb. Tried the CC route but Tesco Bank were ridiculously slow in responding, initial 6 weeks to get back to you has turned into 16 weeks with many escalations but no action. In the end used Moneyclaim Online, and after leaving it as long as possible - including having a CCJ awarded against them - Sunweb finally refunded, including interest and MCOL fee. Hopefully you'll get your money back soon.
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@BlackNRed, to save you going back over the posts, we have already had the money back from M&S Bank via my chargeback claim - but from the latest communication it appears that Sunweb are fighting tooth and nail to void the chargeback by going to Mastercard direct, and are trying to re-impose the charge on my CC.

I don't know the basis for their appeal to Mastercard, but I have pointed out (again) that they have acted illegally and would find it bizarre if Mastercard condone such behaviour.

We don't really mind if Sunweb want to give us the money instead- provided it is now and not "some time in 2021 if you're lucky and we don't go bust in the meantime". The Trustpilot comments make interesting reading - it does sound as though some people are receiving their refunds, although there are also disturbing comments about posts being "removed".
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@Yoda, I have had that experience with Trust Pilot and as a result, don't consider them as trustworthy as I once did.
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Finally got refund from Expedia for cancelled Lufthansa flights in June. Still nothing from Alpine Elements. They owe me £3000.

snowHead
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Just had a refund from SAS for flights , was offered vouchers + 60 euro extra but only valid for 2021 , so just waited patiently and eventually the money no real issues
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
RedandWhiteFlachau wrote:
I'm adding Expedia to the failure list. My airline is not running the route I booked, to a destination I can't go to. They offered me a voucher (I said no), then they offered me an alternative route to the destination I can't go to. I said no. They then referred me to Expedia as I had booked through a "Travel Agent". Expedia refused to refund me as I have apparently been given a "Credit" by the airline. For credit, read voucher. Have now intiaited Section 75 action with my credit card company.


Update: Credit Card company paid up. Expedia still sending me messages saying I've had a credit from the airline. With reference to my earlier post, full refund from Vietnam Air for different flight cancellation.
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Full refund from Swiss Airlines.
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Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Derivative wrote:
Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars.


Not a refund direct from Alpine Elements but i have had my chargeback from credit card 'temporarily' added to my credit card. still waiting the 45 days for them to query it !!! fingers crossed
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Notified today that we've been given an almost full (less £50) refund from Air France. This was for flights that were booked to South America in December.

Air France re-scheduled them (albeit only by a few hours) and our agent immediately informed us that we would be able to cancel and claim a refund because of this.
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Just had a call from Nationwide (Bev's credit card paid for the lost Alpine Elements holiday) saying that they have refunded to the card. I see that Alpine Elements are now advertising 100% refund guarantee. I would imagine that would be worth as much as the ABTA guarantee we had. It would be a brave person booking ski holidays at present, I think.

snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Lufthansa have finally admitted that we didn’t request a refund as they insisted we had when we asked for vouchers for August, so we are back to square one
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Derivative wrote:
Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars.


The strange thing is that many of the companies that protested the most about Refunds last season are now proudly displaying Refund guarantees for the upcoming season! Go Montgenevre is one such company. We've only recently received our money back from them after chasing it for 7 months. Hopefully, you will get yours from Alpine Elements.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jet2 just fully refunded flights I had for next month, which they understandably cancelled.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We had a lads trip to Snowbombing booked last year. Great service from Snowbombing, free transfer to next year with £150 cash refund, 50 euro bar tab and an all inclusive beer / food party with Fatboy Slim.

Looks like this year will also be cancelled too - so hoping for something similar!

Lufthansa Airlines on the other hand were shambolic. Phones turned off, no email address or live chat system. Flights dates were changed without seeking permission. Inbound flight then cancelled and outbound still operating. Managed to get a refund but it was a hard slog and over 3 months.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Skiworld update - was offered a refund credit note or full refund by 31st Jan 21 - successfully, and fairly easily, completed and received a chargeback via credit card.
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Anyone had any joy with Belvilla?

I booked a house through AirBnB for March next year, who are only offering a 50% refund. Will try direct with Belvilla who run the place.
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Had some flights cancelled by British Airways, after humming and hawing we decided to get a refund rather than rebook. Of course rather than make it easy, say a button on the website, you had to call to get a refund. Could not get through to said helpline and was getting rather annoyed, even resorted to twitter as I could see people getting replies there to send in details via PM, but finally got through after about 40 calls to the helpline. Once I got hold of a human the process only took a few minutes and even having been told the refund might take 6 weeks it was on my credit card the next day.

Despite making it unwarrantably hard, the money was quickly refunded.

To put in into perspective I also had some flights on Aer Lingus which I needed to change and who I rang a few times around the same time, I got through to someone each time in a few rings. Makes BA's management and especially the managers of their customer care look amateurish , incompetent or conniving in comparison (likely all three) . Bizarre as they are all part of the same airline group.
ski holidays
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@Fridge03,
I was talking with a B&B owner in France two or three years ago and one of her friends worked with airbnb. The suggestion was that airbnb operated a % cancellation policy with the end user but the business went without - allegedly airbnb paid nothing at all to the business for a cancellation so please let us know what you find out!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Axa - Lloyds Gold account- and Ryanair good guys. I had 2 Ryanair tickets booked in February for travel in July to salzburg. At the time you needed a negative test. I was prepared to go to keep my apartment insurance valid but it wasn't essential for my BiL to go so I gave him his money back. There didn't seem to be any indication that the flight would be cancelled so I paid to change the name on his ticket to mine and moved the flight to September. 2 days before my July flight the landing ban on flights from the Uk to Austria was extended and Ryanair cancelled the flight. I had the non=premium phone number to call to ask for a refund rather than a voucher and I got the refund in a few days. That left my September flight. The need for a negative test and the landing ban had been lifted bit the UK introduced quarantine. As I had a weekend away booked for the following weekend I didn't want to quarantine so I decided not to travel - you can't cancel a Ryanair flight. I claimed on my travel insurance explaining that I had booked the flight before FCO advice against travel but it was clear from the timeline that I moved the booking when restrictions were in place. I didn't have to explain why I had been planning to travel I just said that I did not travel because I could not quarantine. Axa paid out in full (except for £40 excess) including the £115 name change fee.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Still battling with BA to even get a voucher for some cancelled flights back in May....thought I'd cracked it back in Sept but they seem to have reverted to their offshore can't think outside the script call centre in the interim and have resorted to the email complaints route now as I can't face another phone call.
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Covid: Ryanair will not offer refunds for November flights

But people can change to a later flight without paying a fee.
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@Alastair Pink, I don't blame them; they aren't cancelling flights so no reason to refund. They will make profit by flying an empty plane than one with passengers. There will still be people who need to travel so unless there were govt restrictions like the landing ban in Austria earlier in the year why would they cancel the flights?
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@holidayloverxx, I don't blame them either, if they are operating flights no reason to refund as you say (and they are allowing people to switch to a later flight). I just posted the link for information.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Alastair Pink, of course. it was just an observation
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Alastair Pink, I think the "free" date switch is time limited. Only allows a reschedule up to 31st of March '21. (IIRC what I read last week).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Ryanair's chief leprechaun was on the radio this morning. Sounded very annoyed at being asked about people claiming to be still waiting for refunds from earlier this year.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@peerless ploughman, he said they had all been paid. I believe him. I've had all mine. I suspect the issue is people who rejected the voucher online...that link doesn't kick off a refund (confirmed by Ryanair staff member). You have to call the local rate number for post-booking enquiries, and of course that isn't publicised
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
but @holidayloverxx, if that's the case - isn't disingenuously delaying a refund just as bad as not providing one in the first place ?

EJ cancelled my Christmas flight on Friday, removing what, to be fair, was only the faintest glimmer of hope of getting away in December. I don't want a voucher. I want a refund.......even selecting that option requires the most careful clicking !

Now, although their "policy" is eventually available on their website, it is, quite frankly, ridiculously protracted.

30th Oct - I receive an email informing me they have received my refund request
<>
They have given themselves 30 days to check the validity of any refund claims...........they cancelled the flight remember Evil or Very Mad
<>
29 Nov - i will receive a follow up email about my refund request, and if my claim is successful ( they cancelled the flight remember Evil or Very Mad ! )
<>
They then give themselves a further 10 days to process the refund.
<>
09 Dec - I should get my refund........

This is a bit shonky is it not ? .......they cancelled the flight remember Evil or Very Mad
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Timberwolf wrote:
but @holidayloverxx, if that's the case - isn't disingenuously delaying a refund just as bad as not providing one in the first place ?

:


Yep, but he was accused of having outstanding refunds and the way the disingenuous system works means there will be no refunds outstanding on their system
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Michael O’Leary going off on one

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-54780047

Damn customers are liars.

As he has refunded everything he must be one of the good guys?

Edit: sorry @peerless ploughman, , seen you have posted about this already but I thought the vid was quite a laugh.
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Looks like ABTA are not very happy with the chargeback system. From their website:

Chargebacks

We know that, among the many challenges thrown up by the pandemic, one that has proved particularly damaging to travel agents is chargebacks on credit and debit cards. We know this is creating enormous problems for some Members, at a time when cash-flow and bookings are low, and the appeals process is not working as it should. We are asking Members to submit evidence to us on their experiences of chargebacks, which we can use in our engagement with UK Finance (the representative body for the credit card companies), as well as HM Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. Read more here.
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@Timberwolf, I just had my Christmas flight cancelled too...outbound only so far! I presume we can do something about the return leg (or they may just cancel it anyway)!!!

Annoying, but I guess there was a strong possibility this might happen.

Last time round (Easter) they took about 2 months I think to refund us, so lets see how well they do this time round (more annoyingly we managed to get these dirt cheap so whenever its possible to re-book, it will probably cost a lot more)!!!
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I had my Bristol/Innsbruck 11/12 cancelled last week. Ive just had the return 18/12 notification now that that one is also cancelled.
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I guess they do it day by day, so it will take a week or so for the second leg to get cancelled, it makes sense I guess, even if they probably could be a bit more efficient.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
"Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars."
I CONCUR!

I and doubtless MANY OTHERS find ourselves still unauthorised creditors for Alpine Elements and hanging on in hope for a refund nearly a year after paying up fully for a March 20 trip.
Irony of irony is their "Covid refund guarantee" for "new" customers for 20/21 season.
Not even the lift pass cost refunded:-absolutely nothing bar a not asked for "Credit Note".

No intention of ever using this company again nor recommending anyone use to use them.

CRYSTALSKI/TUI have been EXCELLENT!
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Beltedgalloway2015 wrote:
"Still no refund from Alpine Elements. They're fighting very hard to avoid their legal obligations. Anyone would be mad to risk a deposit with these thieves and liars."
I CONCUR!

I and doubtless MANY OTHERS find ourselves still unauthorised creditors for Alpine Elements and hanging on in hope for a refund nearly a year after paying up fully for a March 20 trip.
Irony of irony is their "Covid refund guarantee" for "new" customers for 20/21 season.
Not even the lift pass cost refunded:-absolutely nothing bar a not asked for "Credit Note".

No intention of ever using this company again nor recommending anyone use to use them.

CRYSTALSKI/TUI have been EXCELLENT!


Curiously AE are no longer ABTA members and if you search on the CAA website it no longer displays them as ATOL holders yet their website displays both and they still claim to be ATOL bonded. Maybe a mistake by the CAA?
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vjmehra wrote:
@Timberwolf, I just had my Christmas flight cancelled too...outbound only so far! I presume we can do something about the return leg (or they may just cancel it anyway)!!!

Annoying, but I guess there was a strong possibility this might happen.

Last time round (Easter) they took about 2 months I think to refund us, so lets see how well they do this time round (more annoyingly we managed to get these dirt cheap so whenever its possible to re-book, it will probably cost a lot more)!!!


Sorry @vjmehra, just seen this......... Even if only one leg is affected, you can request a refund for both legs.
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