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Refunds and cancellations - who have been the good guys?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Oh god, is this wankfest still dipping its fingers into the KY surplus lake rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowdave wrote:
@Snowfinders, it's a "good guys" thread so there's nothing I can say about them here...

However, my definition of a "bad guy" would include a company that cancelled a trip and categorically refused any kind of refund whatsoever, telling me it was "Force Majeure", even tho' it's own Ts and Cs say Force Majeure = full refund. Furthermore, a "bad guy" would have done that to multiple other people that I was aware of (at least 4 bookings). A "bad guy" might also try and claim that a package booking wasn't a package because the mandatory ski pass that had to be purchased as part of the "not a package" wasn't paid for at the time of booking, when it wasn't possible to pay for it because it wasn't actually available for sale at that point.

A "good guy" might have rolled the booking to the following year, but then they'd get named on here as a "good guy".


yep, that's disgusting.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Masque wrote:
Oh god, is this wankfest still dipping its fingers into the KY surplus lake rolling eyes


Yes. It's a popular pastime during lockdown.

How are people getting on with insurance claims for cancelled accommodation?
ski holidays
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CathS wrote:
Masque wrote:
Oh god, is this wankfest still dipping its fingers into the KY surplus lake rolling eyes


Yes. It's a popular pastime during lockdown.

How are people getting on with insurance claims for cancelled accommodation?


I had a place booked in Tignes. Got the runaround from the owner 'claim on your insurance' etc. but in the end he saw sense.
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Gerry, nice to see you back, the place wasn't the same without you.
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Update on struggle for flight refunds.
As suggested by helpful snowheads I made a s75 claim to Barclaycard for Swiss air Geneva flights ( for last week of March, en route to Les Menuires) on grounds that the service was not provided. The flights flew but without UK holidaymakers. After a month or so, a 'temp credit' popped up on my barclaycard. After another few weeks barclaycard texted to ask me to withdraw the positive balance, which I have done. I'm assuming this means the flight cost won't be taken back again.
Emboldened by this positive result, I am now starting a S75 claim for (non-ski) mid May flights to Vienna with Austrian [airline]. In response to their cancellation email in April which offered only rebooking options, I requested a refund. There followed a series of online contact forms, emails and letters, in which each time I demanded a refund, their response was to offer a rebooking. At no time have they actually said that they will give me a refund or that they won't. Except that one letter made the imaginary claim that "refund was not initiated, as it has never been confirmed by you". (Not sure how much clearer I could have been than "I want a refund not a rebooking".) After 3 months of this obvious stalling in breach of legal obligations, I'm going for S75 as I should have done in the first place.
Slight snag that (unlike the Swissair ski flights) the Austrian flights were booked many months previously which means that 'query this transaction' is no longer available for barclaycard online. But I've found the pdf easily enough by googling barclaycard dispute form.
Both Austrian and Swiss (air) are part of the Lufthansa group, recently given a multi billion euro Goverment bailout as the German 'national champion'. I've no idea how this can be reconciled with EU state aid rules. I suppose they would say, it doesn't have to be.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@peerless ploughman, Thanks, I am still waiting for a refund for Swiss flights in April. I have an email saying I am due a refund but they are not giving any dates for payment. Spoke to my credit card (Sainsburys) who said insurance should be first port of call if they continue to delay for another month or so? Is this for their convenience (i.e. they don't need to do anything)...did you try insurance first?
Cheers
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I didn't try insurance first, my travel insurers weren't really contactable and I don't suppose they'd cover pandemics anyway.
I suspect that had I rung my credit card and miraculously got through to their call centre in india somewhere, they would have done their best to discourage me from invoking s75. Standard brush off is tell punter to claim on insurance. But if credit cards get a valid written application, they have to address it.
ski holidays
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@peerless ploughman, My understanding, at least for chargeback on Barclay Card, is that the transaction charge back timing runs from the due date of delivery of the service (ie the date of the flights), not from the time of payment. Credit cards may be happier to take this route as it costs them less than S75
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Nominate Budget Rent-a-Car for the second time for a "Good Guys" award.
Cancelled a car in April for a May holiday and they refunded on the same day waiving their normal cancellation fee.
Just cancelled another rental for a holiday later this month and been refunded on the same day again.

Easyjet are up for a "Well I got my money eventually" award.
Refund for cancelled May flights arrived at the end of June.
The award is provisional depending on me getting money back for the July flights which they have just cancelled.

MPI / Ageas up for a "Did really well under circumstances" award for an non-Covid cancellation claim from March which was settled in May
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
A mention too for Stansted Airport Parking who were very fast to instigate a refund process and then deliver on it.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@snowhound, google it - Swiss have just been kicked up the backside here in CH to speed up payments
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Masque wrote:
Oh god, is this wankfest still dipping its fingers into the KY surplus lake rolling eyes


That's a ridiculously inappropriate remark, possibly of JWAZ quality but unworthy of a thread in which punters discuss their successes or failures in obtaining refunds from ski travel organisations.

As a penalty you will ski the Wankbahn outside Garmisch-Partenkirchen in 2020-21, at your own expense.


http://youtube.com/v/K5D3VOKsfi0

NB. This information may require an update - please consult the tourist office before travelling to fumble:

[quote=Outdoor Active"]As the ski lifts are no longer running at the mountain called fumble, this mountain is now perfect again for skiing tours.[/quote]

https://www.outdooractive.com/en/route/ski-touring/zugspitz-region/skiing-tour-from-garmisch-partenkirchen-to-the-top-of-mount-fumble/1398836/
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Neilson

I went to La Plagne, skied for 1 day and then the resort was closed. Neilson gave me a pro rata refund for 6 nights. La Plagne refunded my lift pass.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Reading these two Guardian articles ... published over the past weekend ... one gets the impression that skiers booking for next winter need to be extremely careful who they spend or deposit their money with ...

‘They're all passing the buck’: UK travel firms flout the law on holiday refunds (4 July)
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/04/theyre-all-passing-the-buck-uk-travel-firms-flout-the-law-on-holiday-refunds

Travel agents resort to hardline tactics to get out of a refund (5 July)
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jul/05/travel-agents-resort-to-hardline-tactics-to-get-out-of-a-refund
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Pulled the trigger on a credit card chargeback for Swiss flights today. They’ve agreed by email that I am due a refund but will not commit to any date to actually start the process of refunding, let alone when the money will be returned.
Will post any conclusion once there is one!
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi all just had an email from easyJet - they have changed the time on our flight to earlier the same day. Return flight is showing as sold out. Tried to switch flights to Easter 2021 online but the fee difference to be paid is painful.
Would I be entitled to a change of flight for free? Thanks
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ok I’m gonna answer my own query here - got through to Easy jet within 2 minutes. Explained that I would prefer to change dates ratherthan ask for a refund. Easy jet lady then changed our July flights to Easter 2021 completely free of charge. No problem at all. Well done EasyJet!!
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Beanz wrote:
Scam wrote:
It's been a while since I checked in here. Has anyone got anywhere with Snowchateaux regarding lift pass/ski hire refunds? They were promised straight away but we've received nothing. As I paid by Visa debit card I am going to call my bank today and get them on the case. I can't be faffed with delay tactics any more, I've got plenty of other things on my plate. It's not like Snowchateaux are refunding accommodation costs anyway rolling eyes ; they shouldn't have any problems refunding money for ski hire etc.


Having unfortunately worked for them in the past I'd recommend leaving a review on Facebook if you want to get anywhere. There had been staff that hadn't been paid this week and as soon as they started to get bad reviews on their they paid up.

I've also noticed that they are selling a lot of items off on the local Facebook groups so I wouldn't be surprised if they're not be around much longer so I wouldn't hang around.

I'll say it again they really don't like bad feedback on their Facebook page and will do anything to protect it, so if you can get the rest of your party to put up a review also.

Hope this helps and you get your money back soon.
Thank you for this. My girlfriend actually pointed out some comments on their FB page just now. I would usually try not to resort to such tactics but I am getting frustrated now... One of my party had his insurance payout weeks ago (for accommodation and travel), another just had his insurance claim (accommodation) denied. He's furious. My insurers are asking for more info so I'm getting worried; I've just had to email SCX asking for a cancellation invoice (showing they haven't refunded me) so who knows if I'll get a response...

I honestly feel for the staff but at the end of the day I downright refuse to be left out of pocket for this. We had a terrible attitude from Snowchateaux at the beginning - being told to 'claim on your insurance' and then radio silence when chasing up the lift pass money too. In the end for our lift pass money I went to my bank (fortunately I paid on a VISA debit card) and got the money back that way. But Snowchateaux have been utterly useless and I'm tremendously disappointed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Austrian Airlines have just refunded for flights cancelled in March. The hotel (Maurachhof in Alpendorf) at first demanded we pay the late cancellation fee, then when I linked to the Austrian Hotels regulations, that stated free cancellation, and demanded our deposit back they stopped responding. I guess I didn't really give chase too hard, more bummed about the missed skiing
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VISA Chargeback success!

106 days after my refund should have been provided by the Topflight Group (Topflight, DirectSki, Ski Beat, Topflight for Schools, Ski McNeill) this morning I got confirmation that Chargeback was SUCCESSFUL and all my money has been returned. Topflight initially declined my Chargeback claim and my bank then initiated a pre-arbitration dispute on my behalf. This drew the whole Chargeback process out over 60+ days instead of 30. I suspect that Topflight were buying themselves time by declining initially, although I can't be 100% sure. Thanks to all for the advice on this thread, @snowdave in particular.

I've been a loyal Topflight customer for the last 10 years, but I can't see that run now extending to 11 years as a result of how they handled their legal responsibilities from the outset. In any case I don't have any confidence that I'll be skiing and snowboarding this coming season as a result of Covid. But time will tell.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Great news Paul. we've got 9 days left of our 60 day chargeback period. we've already been told by the travel company that they've contested it but heard nothing more from the chargeback team, lets see what happens.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@paul65, glad it worked out, well done for sticking with it. Hopefully this will also have taught Topflight that they just need to refund (or at least not contest chargebacks) because if they've run out the process over 3 months, I suspect that's cost them a lot of extra fees.

I've go another couple of weeks on mine before I find out if my "bad guys" are contesting it. A couple of other families on the same trip as us are also working through the process and have had preliminary success, but I don't think any of us have yet made it past all the hurdles.
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I too wish to thank snowdave for his assistance. We are still awaiting confirmation that our chargeback has been successful - last week the CC company moved what was left of the temporary credit that they had given me into my bank account, which I am hoping is a sign that the process has been successful, but it would be nice to get written confirmation Toofy Grin

It's intriguing that some companies (including our suppliers) contest the chargeback - it seems to me that they are effectively asking the CC company to condone the fact that they are breaking the law?
ski holidays
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@Yoda, that’s sounds like success - how many days is it since your initial credit was given, and has there been any intermediate communication? Also, is it a visa or MasterCard or something else? Would be good to see if there is any pattern.

I never thought my job from 20 years ago would prove useful, but I’m glad to have been of some assistance to people in rather challenging times!
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@snowdave, I received the credit on 5th May, so 59/60 days had passed. It's a Mastercard from M&S Bank. Only intermediate communication was on 4/5 June containing the supplier's "justification" for not allowing the chargeback, to which I responded with suitable words....
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Yoda, if 60 days have passed that sounds very promising - since it's (IIRC) 30 days for each step, then the first step was closed bang on the end of the initial window, it's run another 30 days, and so it looks to me like either Sunweb has failed to respond, or it's responded and lost. Score 1 for VISA (Paul) and 1 for Mastercard so far.

IIRC in your case, Sunweb was being particularly sneaky and trying to claim that the Sunweb that sold you a holiday wasn't the same Sunweb that provided the holiday, despite being subsidiaries of the same company with common directors. There's "defending your case" and there's "plain lying"... If it was the latter, I hope Mastercard dings it for that.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@snowdave, yes that was their main argument, which was buried on page 23 of their response. The rest of their 30+ pages response consisted of copies of their T&C's (I couldn't be arsed to see whether these were the original T&C's under which we had booked, which clearly stated that we would be refunded, and which I had previously supplied to the bank as part of our claim, or whether they were the later "revised" T&C's which appeared on their website) and various booking documents, plus the rather weaselly "we're waiting for money back from our suppliers".
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Not all ski related but:

Gullivers Sports Travel (Eng vs Japan Rugby) - Top Rating
Easy Jet - Top Rating (eventually!)
Stoked Niseko. Intial response good, bulk of money paid but still waiting for deposit back from March - Pending.
Korean Air - Top Rating
Airbnb - Top Rating
Vietnam Airlines - Looking Good
Air Asia - Promising
Emirates - Pending

If all of the above deliver on their promises then I'll be happy. NB: All of the above booked well before the "Pandemic".

Garuda Indonesia - Shite. Credit Card/Expedia bid to follow
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I know that some on this thread had booked with Snow Chateaux and I am afraid to say that they have ceased trading. If you have I suggest contacting ABTA immediately.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Snowfinders wrote:
I know that some on this thread had booked with Snow Chateaux and I am afraid to say that they have ceased trading. If you have I suggest contacting ABTA immediately.
Oh no really Sad Where did you find this out?

Any idea what this means if my insurers are still asking for more info (a cancellation invoice/proof of no refund) before paying out. Or how it works if my insurance doesn't pay out and I need to go the credit card route?
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Scam wrote:
Snowfinders wrote:
I know that some on this thread had booked with Snow Chateaux and I am afraid to say that they have ceased trading. If you have I suggest contacting ABTA immediately.
Oh no really Sad Where did you find this out?

Any idea what this means if my insurers are still asking for more info (a cancellation invoice/proof of no refund) before paying out. Or how it works if my insurance doesn't pay out and I need to go the credit card route?


I would contact ABTA immediately. SC still have a live email address but guessing they have a large amount of creditors and some with very large amounts they are attempting to recover. I would assume ABTA will pay out if they are members depending on their membership and the holiday type you had.

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/travel-company-failures


Good luck.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Scam, arguably, you're in quite a good situation. At this point, with SC going under, 3 different organisations are potentially liable to make you whole.
1) Your credit card company
2) ABTA (or, possibly, whichever insurance company underwrote SC's bond)
3) Your insurer

There might be some messing around about the order of liability (I think it's as I've listed them above, but maybe ABTA is above credit card) but your now effectively "assured" of a refund rather than messing around with a credit note or similar.
ski holidays
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snowdave wrote:
@Scam, arguably, you're in quite a good situation. At this point, with SC going under, 3 different organisations are potentially liable to make you whole.
1) Your credit card company
2) ABTA (or, possibly, whichever insurance company underwrote SC's bond)
3) Your insurer
Thanks. And yes I do agree with you. I'm not in the worst position.

My credit card was my first port of call but they told me to contact my insurers first so that's the process I'm going through.. In my view I treat banks much like insurers - they are both scum sucking weasels that are trying to wriggle out of paying rolling eyes

And on it goes...
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@Scam, interesting - I think your credit card company is higher up the liability chain than your insurer, particularly under section 75. I suspect it's worth pushing the card company a bit harder, even if you've got an insurance claim underway, just in case the insurer comes back and tells you its the card company's responsibility... I think card companies could be opening themselves up to a wave of future PPI-like claims if they aren't more helpful as they have a clear legal responsibility here.

I agree with your abnormally-behaving-mammal association tho' Happy
ski holidays
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Not an actual refund but managed to get Eurotunnel to extend the booking window to June 2021 so covers next season and 21/22 when originally we would have had to travel before Jan 2021. This was via their webchat function rather than calling.

BB Hotels refunded directly to the payment card without even me asking for it for one of the en-route hotels from the family bash at Easter - quids in too as the exchange rate had moved in our favour and we gained a couple of quid.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Stansted airport parking are refunding a non refundable booking for next week.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
snowdave wrote:
@Scam, interesting - I think your credit card company is higher up the liability chain than your insurer, particularly under section 75. I suspect it's worth pushing the card company a bit harder, even if you've got an insurance claim underway, just in case the insurer comes back and tells you its the card company's responsibility... I think card companies could be opening themselves up to a wave of future PPI-like claims if they aren't more helpful as they have a clear legal responsibility here.

I agree with your abnormally-behaving-mammal association tho' Happy
The credit card co are being slightly shady about it. I called them to confirm the time-period I had to claim and the guy on the phone was suitably vague. So I dropped them a secure message and received this;

Quote:
Thank you for contacting us regarding disputed transactions.

Usually the timeframe for raising a claim is within 120 days after the purchase was made. However under certain circumstances this can be ignored. We would advise waiting on the outcome from your insurance company first however.

If you have any further questions please do get in contact.
I think I can hold them to that; telling me to wait on the outcome from my insurance first. They also have a record of my phoning way back in March when they told me to contact my insurers first.

Again, I trust them about |-| this much... I've taken a screenshot of that message. That shows how little I trust them not to delete it and try to screw me over lol Toofy Grin
ski holidays
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@Scam, ah - they are treating this as a chargeback (where it is indeed 120 days, and I don't think they have any ability to waive that either, it's scheme rules and I thought they need to have filed the dispute with the card scheme by then).

Section 75 has no time limit (or it's years, I can't remember exactly) so you can always go back as an S75 claim. To the best of my knowledge, they have no eventual wriggle room - you paid by card, the provider has gone bust, this is exactly the situation that so many credit card companies (possibly including yours) market as being "protected" if you pay by card.
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Easyjet in the good but slow category. Cancelled flights for the may bank holiday, refund arrived end of last week.
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