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What ABS kit?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've got my alpine bolt hole, my board quiver, my trany probe and shovel... and am now looking to do some serious back country. So it's time I bought an ABS backpack.

As I know nothing about the options, I'm hoping I can draw on your expertise. I'm 85kg and 5'11, if that matters.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have to admit, I love the vario ABS as you can pick up some cheap sale pack units to vary the carry capacity for longer trips of touring. Saying that, I mainly stick with my 18lt size.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Personally I love my Ortovox Freerider 24L. Just a personal preference as it fits my back really well, just about enough room for daily essentials, plus shovel, probe etc, and I barely notice I have it on.

Ive no experience with other packs.

I think its important to try a few packs on though. As with skis they can be a personal thing.
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Do you guys have carbon cannisters, or steel?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I have carbon, but only because they were on sale (due to the steel recall) when I got mine. Given I don't do touring (Im lazy so prefer lift served off piste) I can't see that a carbon over steel makes any difference weight wise.

Your best bet might be to speak to Tim Shepherd - Genuine bloke, offers 10% to snowheads and always has a great range of packs - http://shop.snowshepherd.co.uk/epages/es122028.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es122028/Categories/%22Air%20Bags%22
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Ortovox have a award winning new bag to the market for the up coming season.
Lightest system by far at 640g and very compact.
https://www.ortovox.com/uk/avabag/

Not sure what price they will be put they come with a carbon canister as standard.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@bar shaker, I'd suggest 24L ABS Vario Size L with carbon canister, I found the 18L a bit small, but have both and can zip on/ off as required.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
willski17 wrote:
Ortovox have a award winning new bag to the market for the up coming season.
Lightest system by far at 640g and very compact.
https://www.ortovox.com/uk/avabag/

Not sure what price they will be put they come with a carbon canister as standard.


I like the look of that. I'll only be doing lift accessed off piste so don't want anything too big or too heavy. With my SH discount, that's in budget too at £540 with a carbon bottle.

I'll have a chat with Tim at Snow Shepherd. Was looking at their site when I started this thread.

ETA - do you carry shovels etc with these? There doesn't seem room.
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@bar shaker, You always carry shovel, probe and wear transceiver if off-piste.....and also know how to use them preferably! wink So do all your pals. There is room in all Av bags.
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Markymark29 wrote:
@bar shaker, You always carry shovel, probe and wear transceiver if off-piste.....and also know how to use them preferably! wink So do all your pals. There is room in all Av bags.


That's what I have always thought. I guess the shovel goes inside the new Ascent bags.
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@bar shaker, Not sure but I assume so looking at the photo, not seen one but on all current models they do.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@bar shaker, You bought a place in Val btw?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I upgraded to carbon when I bought the pack; I do skin up a bit to access offpiste and appreciate the small weight saving. I find that a shovel, probe, packable duvet jacket, hat, spare gloves and food fits fine in the ultralite 18lt pack. I also have no trouble using this on a chair lift.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Scarpa, I find 18L OK until I start carrying skins about and that gets a bit tight. I also carry a litre of water and spare goggles which takes up a bit of room hence the 24L. Same depth just a bit higher, also good for lift access.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
You might like this offer from Sport Conrad - Eu340, with canister for Eu90:

http://www.sport-conrad.com/en/snowboard/avalanche-safety/airbag-backpacks/on-top-light-abs-26-without-cartridge-sc.html
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Poster: A snowHead
@Chamcham, Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Markymark29 wrote:
@bar shaker, You bought a place in Val btw?


Yep, La Daille. Do you have a place there?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@bar shaker, ha, I wish! Good luck with ABS, the above Deuter deal looks good....buy it quick before the £ drops further!!
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@Markymark29, Yep - I bought one recently, BNWT, very good value, and the advantage of a Deuter pack too. I actually bought the canister from Bergreunde where it was even cheaper at £62:

https://www.bergfreunde.co.uk/abs-activation-unit-steel-avalanche-backpack/?searchparam=abs&listtype=search&backlink=eyJ1cmwiOiJcL3NcL2Fic1wvP3NlYXJjaHBhcmFtPWFicyZpQmZSZXNldFNvcnRpbmc9MSMzZTZjZDhlZDMzZjYyZjIzNTE3MzhjYjdiYjcwZjhjYSIsImhhc2giOiI3YTczZDkwNmFmN2ZkNzk0Njc4Njc4MzA4ODYwOTJmMCJ9
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
willski17 wrote:
Ortovox have a award winning new bag to the market for the up coming season.
Lightest system by far at 640g and very compact.
https://www.ortovox.com/uk/avabag/

Not sure what price they will be put they come with a carbon canister as standard.


Looks good but I don't think it's a game changer. Only the airbag system is 640g (doesn't include weight of backpack etc) compared to say the Mammut RAS at 850g and PAS at 870g.

The Ortovox Ascent 22 AVABAG http://shop.snowshepherd.co.uk/epages/es122028.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es122028/Products/46108 weighs 1780g with a carbon cylinder. For a similar sized pack, a Mammut RAS is 850g, Mammut Ultralight RAS Ready 20L backpack is 560g, and a carbon cylinder is 310g, total 1720g.
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There are other things I like about the Ascent, such as the MASS taking up very little space and the lack of electrics.

My only concern, without seeing one, is that the fabric of the pack is something more than 'tent grade'.

My trusty old Dakine is still going strong after 12 years and plenty of wipe outs.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Markymark29 wrote:
@bar shaker, I'd suggest 24L ABS Vario Size L with carbon canister, I found the 18L a bit small, but have both and can zip on/ off as required.


The ABS website says "For optimum fit, the Vario Base Unit is available in two different back lengths: size L is the appropriate choice for a back length of 46 cm or more (top of hip to top of shoulder). Size S is the ideal length up to 49cm.”

So L doesn't mean Large?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'm 5'9" and found the small to fit my back length perfectly on the Vario. I do have slightly long legs though, my torso length is approx 47-48cm and the L was defintely too long.
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@Scarpa, I'm 5'10" with short legs and long body, S Vario was way too short, it used to bounce about - sold it and bought a L.
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@Themasterpiece, short and long
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ABS vario for me, its what all the pisteurs have in the E-K and was recommended by the Head of Off piste at Evo 2 for all sorts of reasons. I got mine with a steel canister and a 24L bag for day touring for €650 in resort, there is not much difference in weight between the 2 canisters(about a Mars Bar) for another €100. ABS also have a recommend a twin programme where you send a link to a buddy who wants one and then you get a free zip on bag of a different size - so I went for a biggy - just in case.

If you are unsure before you go to the shop - the videos on the ABS website are very good, but you do have to turn the irritating music off!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@chocksaway, Yep, Vario is the best. Used to have ABS Powder, but bulky when loaded up. Think you'd notice a big difference if you tried the carbon btw, used to have steel and carbon is much lighter.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I actually like ABS Powder better as far as fit goes, but it's very limited with selection of zip-ons (no third party zip-ons), and original ABS 26L is pretty weird (big size on spec, but very little stuff really fits in there). 8L zip-on which I use for lift serviced skiing is really cool and all the stuff I need fits nicely there, but 26L zip-on, I have for ski touring, has much left to be improved.
So if I would go buy this stuff again, I would go with ABS Vario, even if fit on back is a bit worse for me then with Powder. Simply, selection of third party zip-ons is so much bigger and most of third party zip-ons are way better then original ABS zip-ons.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Markymark29 wrote:
@Themasterpiece, short and long


I'm either having a worrying mental block, or it doesn't make sense. The spec from the website says

L is 46cm. Whether that means Long or Large, it is smaller than S which is 49cm Puzzled
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Themasterpiece, There is a overlap in size:

Size:S is the right choice for people with a back length of up to 49 cm (19 inches) (top of hip to top of shoulder)

Size:L for back lengths of 46 cm (18 inches) or more (top of hip to top of shoulder)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Oh, I did get some hi vis orange paint and painted two wide rings around the activation handle. Whoever decided to make it white when it is designed to be attached and detached in snowy conditions perhaps did not think about the possibility of dropping and then finding it Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
PowderAdict wrote:
@Themasterpiece, There is a overlap in size:

Size:S is the right choice for people with a back length of up to 49 cm (19 inches) (top of hip to top of shoulder)

Size:L for back lengths of 46 cm (18 inches) or more (top of hip to top of shoulder)


Got it now Embarassed
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

My only concern, without seeing one, is that the fabric of the pack is something more than 'tent grade'.



The New Ortovox Ascent and Free Rider packs
Its a light weight fabric however its extremely strong, they are using EXTREME LY LIGHT abrasion resistant material i.e. Nylon 100D Robic Ripstop

Also I know that this pack has been in research and development for much longer than Ortovox normally do, to make sure its 100% correct for the market.

The basics of the airbag section are similar to the Mammut system, but they use smaller lighter components and a non stitched airbag reducing the weight as well.

The carbon cylinder is essentially the same price as the old steel ones from ABS.

Hope the above helps a little
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@livetoski, thanks. I've pretty much decided on an Ascent.
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I have some questions regarding avalanche backpacks.

Since I am completely new in off-piste i am looking for off-piste backpack. As I read about off-piste safety, there are strong advises to buy an avalanche backpack. Since my budget is a little limited and since I have to buy other essentials (avalanche transceiver, shovel and probe) I am looking for moderate priced backpack which can be upgraded with MASS or AIRBAG system. Right now I cant afford fully priced backpack with MASS or AIRBAG system. I intend to buy an up-gradable backpack.

I stumbled upon Ortovox backpacks and I liked FreeRider series which comes with back protector but it seems that there are 2 versions of backpack. Compatible with MASS system and not compatible with MASS. Also I liked Ascent backpack, which is compatible with AVA Bag.

So my questions are:
- does Ascent provides back protector as FreeRider?

I am also looking for other backpacks which can be bought without AIRBAG system and they provide removable back protector.
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livetoski wrote:
The carbon cylinder is essentially the same price as the old steel ones from ABS.


Does anyone know if carbon cylinders purchased for ABS systems are the same as those for the Avabag system or whether they are compatible? They look grossly the same but not sure if there are any small but important differences!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The canisters for the AVA bag are different to the ABS ones.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@mmgg1988,

Yep different activation systems on the ABS and AVAbag cylinders, it would not be wise to mix any different brands cylinders, even if they operate on the same system, the copper seal caps are a different thickness and this could cause problems. This includes Mammut systems as well.
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Hi Tim @@livetoski,

What is the reason you don't sell the Jetforce bags?

I'm going to get something soon but air travel and refilling hassles put me off the trad canisters.
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@GlasgowCyclops,

Ouch OK you had to ask, I don't like the Jetforce bags, number of issues with the technology used, its old tech especially the fan, the weight of the packs, the hassle with recharging on longer tours, the issues with lithium batteries in the cold, etc etc

If the USA had the same regulations on cylinders as the rest of the World, then would battery bags have even been considered ?

Traditional cylinders are now on an exchange basis just like a calor system, so not an issue, travel is pretty much OK now as well, unless your flying to the States, but you can hire cylinders there as well now.





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